Good bye Crude Oil

[djAdvocate]

VB- are we still a net exporter?

[Artemis Windsong]

These are EMERGENCY reserves going overseas to our arch enemy China.  There is zero justification for this.  It doesn't matter what the oil drillers are doing or the refineries running at capacity.  I see this as traitor.

www.yahoo.com/finance/news/why-u-sending-emergency-oil-160000418.html

[dondub]

Jul 8, 2022 12:53:01 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

These are EMERGENCY reserves going overseas to our arch enemy China.  There is zero justification for this.  It doesn't matter what the oil drillers are doing or the refineries running at capacity.  I see this as traitor.

www.yahoo.com/finance/news/why-u-sending-emergency-oil-160000418.html

Why do you think China is our “arch enemy”? The justification is to keep China from needing to buy Russian oil, our current arch enemy. What is traitor about it?

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 8, 2022 12:53:01 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

These are EMERGENCY reserves going overseas to our arch enemy China.  There is zero justification for this.  It doesn't matter what the oil drillers are doing or the refineries running at capacity.  I see this as traitor.

www.yahoo.com/finance/news/why-u-sending-emergency-oil-160000418.html

You mean the China that we buy all kinds of crap from. The China that manufactures CT scan dye that is in short supply due to their shutdown of Shanghai due to Covid. The China that manufactures much of the medical equipment we use. That Apple has making iPhones. This is our archenemy? We sure not acting like it

[djAdvocate]

since we are a NET EXPORTER (i believe) we really have no need for the SPR.

if China needs it, we should give it to them.

if this is a complaint about high oil prices, we should consider whether or not we like capitalism.  if we don't, we could ABSOLUTELY socialize our oil assets.  that would be easily done.  oil corporations, and the assets they mind, exist by government fiat, and that could easily be withdrawn.  except, of course, very few would go along with that (for some baffling reason.  i am absolutely confident that Adam Smith would, and i can explain why, if you would like).

[billisonboard]

We could check over on the Your Money board but I think most there think a rainy day fund is a good thing to have available if you need it. 

[djAdvocate]

Jul 8, 2022 14:27:22 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

We could check over on the Your Money board but I think most there think a rainy day fund is a good thing to have available if you need it. 

good point.  but in the case of the SPR, we started doing that because we were a net IMPORTER.  so the reserve was like an INSURANCE POLICY against being held hostage by foreign interests.  it made sense.

now, the rainy day would mean that we somehow lost productive capacity in the US.  i don't see that happening any time soon, do you?

the US lacks a certain self criticism that eliminates things that have become useless or cumbersome over time, like the electoral college.  that does not bode well for us.

[billisonboard]

Jul 8, 2022 14:39:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 8, 2022 14:27:22 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

We could check over on the Your Money board but I think most there think a rainy day fund is a good thing to have available if you need it. 

good point.  but in the case of the SPR, we started doing that because we were a net IMPORTER.  so the reserve was like an INSURANCE POLICY against being held hostage by foreign interests.  it made sense.

now, the rainy day would mean that we somehow lost productive capacity in the US.  i don't see that happening any time soon, do you?

the US lacks a certain self criticism that eliminates things that have become useless or cumbersome over time, like the electoral college.  that does not bode well for us.

My thought is you plan for what you see happening and have a rainy day fund for dealing with things you don't foresee happening.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 8, 2022 15:38:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 8, 2022 14:39:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

good point.  but in the case of the SPR, we started doing that because we were a net IMPORTER.  so the reserve was like an INSURANCE POLICY against being held hostage by foreign interests.  it made sense.

now, the rainy day would mean that we somehow lost productive capacity in the US.  i don't see that happening any time soon, do you?

the US lacks a certain self criticism that eliminates things that have become useless or cumbersome over time, like the electoral college.  that does not bode well for us.

My thought is you plan for what you see happening and have a rainy day fund for dealing with things you don't foresee happening.

right.  and given the diversity of our incoming oil, i not only can't forsee the possibility of us needing the SPR, but i can't imagine it.  at all.  

i suspect that you are going to reply "you say tomato, i say tomahto", but really, i am pretty good at analyzing this stuff.  i guess if Texas seceeded that would be one of those possibilities.  do you think that is worth having a 35 day supply of unrefined reserves?

[billisonboard]

Jul 8, 2022 16:04:19 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 8, 2022 15:38:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

My thought is you plan for what you see happening and have a rainy day fund for dealing with things you don't foresee happening.

right.  and given the diversity of our incoming oil, i not only can't forsee the possibility of us needing the SPR, but i can't imagine it.  at all.  

i suspect that you are going to reply "you say tomato, i say tomahto", but really, i am pretty good at analyzing this stuff.  i guess if Texas seceeded that would be one of those possibilities.  do you think that is worth having a 35 day supply of unrefined reserves?

Considering the fact that 2 of the 4 storage facilities are in Texas ...

I have a conservative personality. With that, I need to be convinced change is necessary to support it. I have not been convinced that doing away with the reserve is necessary.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 8, 2022 17:10:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 8, 2022 16:04:19 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

right.  and given the diversity of our incoming oil, i not only can't forsee the possibility of us needing the SPR, but i can't imagine it.  at all.  

i suspect that you are going to reply "you say tomato, i say tomahto", but really, i am pretty good at analyzing this stuff.  i guess if Texas seceeded that would be one of those possibilities.  do you think that is worth having a 35 day supply of unrefined reserves?

Considering the fact that 2 of the 4 storage facilities are in Texas ...

I have a conservative personality. With that, I need to be convinced change is necessary to support it. I have not been convinced that doing away with the reserve is necessary.

for the record, i am not trying that hard.  i might even be wrong about why it was created.
but i doubt it.  i think it probably came about during the Arab Oil Embargo.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 8, 2022 12:53:01 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

These are EMERGENCY reserves going overseas to our arch enemy China.  There is zero justification for this.  It doesn't matter what the oil drillers are doing or the refineries running at capacity.  I see this as traitor.

www.yahoo.com/finance/news/why-u-sending-emergency-oil-160000418.html

Do you realize that the US consumption of gas is sitting at around 20 MILLION barrels/DAY.  The world consumption is about 90 MILLION barrels/day.  Sending a couple hundred thousand barrels overseas is squat in the grand scheme of things.  The US is sending 5% of a ONE DAY supply of oil.

This all needs to be put into perspective.

[djAdvocate]

i think it was the principle that bills and i were debating.
but your point is well taken.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 9, 2022 13:06:17 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think it was the principle that bills and i were debating.
but your point is well taken.

One thing to consider is that since we are so dependent upon other countries functioning well - especially trading partners - it really is in the US's best interest to help them if we can.  Yeah, we can say "no oil for you", but if they cannot get the goods that the US ordered to their docks, ultimately the US consumer is going to be the one hurt.  

Just take a look at how the pandemic has influenced shipments.  Car lots are still empty in my city.  It still takes forever to get parts.  It's pretty important to make sure others work well too.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 9, 2022 13:13:58 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jul 9, 2022 13:06:17 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think it was the principle that bills and i were debating.
but your point is well taken.

One thing to consider is that since we are so dependent upon other countries functioning well - especially trading partners - it really is in the US's best interest to help them if we can.  Yeah, we can say "no oil for you", but if they cannot get the goods that the US ordered to their docks, ultimately the US consumer is going to be the one hurt.  

Just take a look at how the pandemic has influenced shipments.  Car lots are still empty in my city.  It still takes forever to get parts.  It's pretty important to make sure others work well too.

this is actually the other (previously unstated) half of my position.  if i can loan my spare car to someone important to me, i will do so, even if it leaves me without a backup.  the idea being that when i need a favor, i can then rely on that someone.  it doesn't always work that way, but by and large, it does.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 9, 2022 13:22:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 9, 2022 13:13:58 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

One thing to consider is that since we are so dependent upon other countries functioning well - especially trading partners - it really is in the US's best interest to help them if we can.  Yeah, we can say "no oil for you", but if they cannot get the goods that the US ordered to their docks, ultimately the US consumer is going to be the one hurt.  

Just take a look at how the pandemic has influenced shipments.  Car lots are still empty in my city.  It still takes forever to get parts.  It's pretty important to make sure others work well too.

this is actually the other (previously unstated) half of my position.  if i can loan my spare car to someone important to me, i will do so, even if it leaves me without a backup.  the idea being that when i need a favor, i can then rely on that someone.  it doesn't always work that way, but by and large, it does.

Exactly.  You need to look at the big picture and not tunnel vision.