treasuries....bill, note, bonds

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Sept 2, 2022 19:10:44 GMT -5 MarionTh230 said:

Sept 2, 2022 18:57:45 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

August auctions seeing best rates generally on the bonds, edging towards mid 3% range, but need to lock in for 20 or more years, then the notes at or abovet 3%, with bills being more variable, but many still in the mid to high 2% range.

Still watching bonds, would like a higher interest rate to lock in for so many years....

I've said previously I only purchase bills, 2 year notes, and 5 year TIPS.  Realistically, the 5 year TIPS lock my money up longer that I would like in a perfect world.

If you purchase bonds, is your plan to just hold until maturity?  Or are you seeking to liquidate early via the secondary market?

The reason I haven't dipped my toes in the bond water is because I literally have no idea how to sell my marketable treasury holdings in Treasury Direct on the secondary market.  Which means, I just go in with the idea that whatever I buy (excluding savings bonds), I will need to hold until maturity.  Which makes me quite nervous when looking at bonds given the long time to maturity.

That's why I am looking for interests above 5% in bonds, would plan to keep them long term so need a pretty high interest rate to justify that. Anticipating that along that route there would be times when inflation and interest rates very low, making the bonds avantageous. of course could be much higher interest/inflation during the period as well, making them a drag on it all.

At present only putting small amounts in as I get the hang of buying via the auctions, and think about what my long term AA will be. Longest duration thus far is a 3 year not, shortes is a 52 week bill.

[countrygirl2]

We just went with a 5 year annuity, I know everyone said don't. But it's insured by the state, guaranteed 4.35%, not much but better than what we can get safely. And for us safety is essential.
Also if hubs would pass away I get the money, it's an IRA in it. But the RMD will be paid from the other IRA's not this one.

We won't do more, hopefully rates will come up but they are keeping them very low for now.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

another 52 week bill purchase. 3.6 percent. Not too shabby.....

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Put in my next orders for a 2 year note and 52 week bill for September 30th and October 6, respectively. Again, just buying 500 with each purchase. May get a little bolder and up the amounts, now I am getting the swing of things and fairly confident on the range of interest to expect, and the general direction it is going.

So far, so fun!

[Tiny]

I'm waiting for my last "experiment" t-bill to mature at the end of next week before I buy any more. Trying to get all my dribs and drams of purchases/money to accumulate into one bigger T-Bill that will hopefully mature in Jan. 2023 with the intent that will be the $$ I roll over into I-Bonds I had another old EE bond (those things have been earning 4% for years! I wish I had paid more attention to this stuff in my 30's and 40's... the bonds all had face values $100 or under...) I have on more old EE bond that matures in Feb 2023.

I'm going to try to "time the market" because the Fed will most likely raise rates again later in September - and I think the will effect the rates on T-Bills once it happens. So maybe when I buy a 13 week T-Bill at the end of September I'll have a 3% or higher rate.

I've only got short term money (13 weeks or less) so I'm kind of stuck using/experimenting with T-Bills.

I may have some longer term $$ available in October/november/December - and I may opt for a T-Note or a 52 week Bill (or maybe just buy a TIPS I kind of "get" how they work now.)


Kind of wish I had tried this out in the past - I had EE bonds mature in early 2020 but just moved the small windfall $$ to my checking account (ok, I did use the dribs and drams to pay down a mortgage - which I eventually paid in full in early 2021 so I didn't fritter it all).

On the plus side - a nephew is getting married in October... I asked the Happy Couple if they'd like a lump of cash or if I could interest them in a gift I-Bond for the paltry amount of $$. They opted for the I-Bond (and clearly understand how it works) so I got in the gift purchase in August 2022 to get the clock started on the 1 year lock out. Now my nephew just needs to open a TD account (bwaaa haaa haa!! it also comes with a "curse" of having to set up the account. )

On another note - Ally is at 2% interest.   Which is kind of nice for my sinking fund money - which is at it's highest point (and will be until the end of October when I pay a bunch of big number bills in early November).  

[Tiny]

Sept 9, 2022 9:40:32 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

another 52 week bill purchase. 3.6 percent. Not too shabby.....

That is pretty sweet.     

[Rukh O'Rorke]

looking at recent auctions....30 year bond at 3% with price per 100 less than 91. Wish I'd gotten in on that deal!

3 year note at 3.5%.

26 week bill at 3.9%

[Tiny]

I just got a 13 week T-Bill    for the following: 



Investment/Interest Rate: 3.343%


Yield: 3.270%


Price per $100: 99.173417

Issue Date: 09-29-2022
Maturity Date: 12-29-2022  


I'm thinking that's pretty good for a short term investment.    



I finally have some $$ I can lock up for a longer time - so I might buy TIPS...  I sort of "understand" how they work - but I don't "understand" how to "value" them against other stuff.   But hey everyone else is doing it - so maybe I should too.  

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Nice Tiny!

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Wow, rates over 4% on both the 2 year and 5 year notes purchases went through today, with a slight discount on par too.


Security Type: 5-Year Note
Par Amount: $500.00
Price per $100: 99.540144
Investment/Interest Rate: 4.125%


Security Type: 2-Year Note
Par Amount: $500.00
Price per $100: 99.924113
Investment/Interest Rate: 4.250%

Have a 52 week bill and and a 3 year note in the queue for purhase in oct. 

[Tiny]

Sept 30, 2022 8:50:53 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Wow, rates over 4% on both the 2 year and 5 year notes purchases went through today, with a slight discount on par too. 

Have a 52 week bill and and a 3 year note in the queue for purhase in oct.  

That is some sweetness. 


I saw those higher interest rates... and have been looking for $$ I could scrape together and "lock up" for 1 or 2 years and then buy in October.

I'm having second thoughts about my 2023 "I-Bond purchase". It might be better for me to lock up the 2023 I-Bond purchase money in a T-Bill or T-Note at the start of 2023.

I am divided about TIPS... I may just do a $500 or 1K purchase and be done with it. 

(my local banks still seem to be  offering 1% or less on CDs    Which is weird considering Ally is paying 2.1% )    

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Sept 30, 2022 16:10:31 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Sept 30, 2022 8:50:53 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Wow, rates over 4% on both the 2 year and 5 year notes purchases went through today, with a slight discount on par too. 

Have a 52 week bill and and a 3 year note in the queue for purhase in oct.  

That is some sweetness. 


I saw those higher interest rates... and have been looking for $$ I could scrape together and "lock up" for 1 or 2 years and then buy in October.

I'm having second thoughts about my 2023 "I-Bond purchase". It might be better for me to lock up the 2023 I-Bond purchase money in a T-Bill or T-Note at the start of 2023.

I am divided about TIPS... I may just do a $500 or 1K purchase and be done with it. 

(my local banks still seem to be  offering 1% or less on CDs    Which is weird considering Ally is paying 2.1% )    

I think Ibond rates are coming out soon, and I don't they are going down, or by much. So that will be interesting. I'll have to start up the Ibonds again in 2023.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Security Type: 52-Week Bill
Par Amount: $500.00
Price per $100: 96.001056
Investment/Interest Rate: 4.134%


4.124% on 52 week bill....

I now have 2k in bills, all 52 weeks, and 2k in notes 2-2,1-3,1-5, so starting to add up. at least a bit.

Not sure where I'm going with this...but I'm going!

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Security Type: 3-Year Note
Par Amount: $500.00
Price per $100: 99.810402
Investment/Interest Rate: 4.250%

3 year note, at 4.25%

[minnesotapaintlady]

I've never messed with treasuries personally, but I was reading an article this morning that it's easier to buy and sell them through a brokerage like Vanguard or Fidelity (no charge) than to go through TD.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Oct 19, 2022 10:01:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I've never messed with treasuries personally, but I was reading an article this morning that it's easier to buy and sell them through a brokerage like Vanguard or Fidelity (no charge) than to go through TD.

if you plan to sell. I'm thinking to hold till maturity.  then it's easy in treasurty direct.

I think!! theoretically....I'll see!

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Security Type: 2-Year Note
Par Amount: $500.00
Price per $100: 99.839071
Investment/Interest Rate: 4.375%

Over 4% and tiny discount on par. I am going to continue to invest in bills and notes, still keeping an eye on bonds. 

Bonds have been consistent at 3% for 30 year bonds, and 3.375% for 20 year bonds, still below my threshold for purchase. However! the last 20 year bond sold original for 99.93 for par in august, resale from the issue in sept was 93.84 for par, and then in october is was 86.6. This is starting to look attractive if you hold to maturity. If you can hold to maturity. If holding to maturity is better than stocks? Magic 8 says Outlook cloudy, try again later! My guess, no, but then, what are bonds for? i still don't know, 

But even if I think this is a good entry point for me, I'm not sure I'm savvy enough to figure out when to buy these! August was soso, just getting 3%, but by october on the 3rd go round for the issue the bond total yeild was 4.395%, which is kind of close to my target for taking on long term bonds.

Anyhoo.....I continue to Mr. Magoo my way through adding bonds into my investments. I have learned a ton in just about 6 months buying small denomination and watching the rates and par variations across the different types, and such.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Security Type: 52-Week Bill
Par Amount: $500.00
Price per $100: 95.444944
Investment/Interest Rate: 4.730%

nearing 5% on 52 week bill. 

My other purchase this month will be a 2 year note. 

[Tiny]

Just purchased another T-Bill. Went with a longer term. definitely near 5%...


Security Type: 26-Week Bill
Par Amount: $1,000.00
Price per $100: 97.755333
Investment/Interest Rate: 4.605%

Issue Date: 11-17-2022
Maturity Date: 05-18-2023


I've got 10K mouldering in a savings account - I need to work on moving that money somewhere else - either Ally or into T-Bill(s).

I think I need a "ladder" of some sort... I have to be careful that I don't lock up all my EF money in long term (difficult to get to) accounts.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Nov 17, 2022 22:43:44 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I've got 10K mouldering in a savings account - I need to work on moving that money somewhere else - either Ally or into T-Bill(s).

I think I need a "ladder" of some sort... I have to be careful that I don't lock up all my EF money in long term (difficult to get to) accounts.

I am thinking in terms of laddering too, just with 500 currently. Will see how far I get with this plan!

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Security Type: 2-Year Note
Par Amount: $500.00
Price per $100: 99.990539
Investment/Interest Rate: 4.500%

today's aquisition. A little higher rate than October's 2 year note, but kind of a wash given not much discount on par......

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Looks like I messed up on my laddering scheme? I don't see any 2 year notes for Dec 2024 maturity....nxt one is maturity of 1-3-24, so been pushing on this an filling in my little grid and now feel a bit deflated, lol.

silly.



That's my middle name!

[Rukh O'Rorke]

20 and 30 year bonds are both at 4%, 99 and 98.xx par, respectively.


tolerable, but not handsome enough to tempt me.....

[Rukh O'Rorke]

today's acquisition:


Security Type: 52-Week Bill
Par Amount: $500.00
Price per $100: 95.434833
Investment/Interest Rate: 4.741%

currently up to 7k in bills, notes, and tips. Yikes, seems like it took so much/so many months investing to get to this, but it's not that all that much!!

[Tiny]

My last purchase of 2022:

Type: 13-Week Bill
Par Amount: $4,700.00
Purchase Price: $4,648.32

Investment/Interest Rate: 4.459%
Yield: 4.350%
Price per $100: 98.900417

Discount: $51.68

Issue Date: 12-29-2022
Dated Date: None
Maturity Date: 03-30-2023


Not too bad.

I currently have the above T-bill (for $4,700) another T-bill for 1K (I think it matures in May of 2023 and has a yield between 3.5 and 4% - so not too bad.) and 18K of "2 years of new money" in I-Bonds plus 2K worth of I-bonds from 2006 thru 2008. I didn't have the extra 2K in 2021 to max out my I-Bond purchase.

My current $5,700 (total invested) in T-Bills isn't too far off Rukh's 7K (total invested). It took me all of 2022 to accomplish this.



I just had a $5,300 T-Bill mature - but I need this money to cover additional "hurricane related" expenses. This was EF money and this expense is somewhat of an emergency - it was definitely unexpected.

Not sure I will be able to fulfil my goal of another 10K purchase of I-Bonds in 2023 - but I have all of 2023 to accomplish this. I foresee a couple of other expenses that weren't planned/expected coming up.

This is why having an EF is a good thing. I'm annoyed with a little anxiety but I can still sleep at night.

I also have 5K of EF money at Ally in a 12 month CD at 3.75% (kind of wish I hadn't done this but whats done is done.)

At this point I have all but 3K of my EF money earning 3% or more interest. Not bad. I am REALLY glad I started paying attention to my EF money that was sitting at various rates all less than .5% at the beginning of 2021 and started moving it first to Ally to get the .5% and then to I-Bonds and eventually some T-Bills.

So, I'm gonna call the long slow slog (2 years) of moving EF money to higher interest accounts a success. If I had done nothing I'd still have 28K sitting at less than 1% interest today.

And an aside - there's a lot of non retired people (in my life)  who have no idea that Ally is offering 3.3% and who are staunchly sticking with their still less than 1% bank CDS and Savings accounts

And once again I am grateful and thankful for all the people filled with financial knowledge (and their ears to the financial ground) at YMAM.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

was looking at recent auction results, found some recent ones where the purchase price for par of 100 was 104 and change. This makes me hesitant to start purchasing more in the new year, seems a real drag on yeild....was great when everything was below par.....

[Tiny]

Had my last old EE bond (that I converted from paper to treasury direct a zillion years ago) mature - so I bought a $400 4 week T-Bill.   I think interest rates are over 4%.  

Haven't bought anything else in 2023.     I am strapped for cash -  my liquid EF money is gone (cash on hand) and I had to "borrow" money from myself (used $$ from a sinking fund)  to cover some emergency expenses.      

I think I will take a pass on I-Bonds in 2023.  T-Bills feel more like the short term way to go for me.    


It isn't the inflation on the day to day stuff that's killing me - it's all the "disasters" that keep happening to me - one right after the other since  September of 2022 (Hurricane Ian).   Nothing all that bad - more of a "Wait. WTF just happened??"  and  they just all have really big Costs.            And yes I can say without a doubt that Emergency Fund money is VERY VERY VERY important to have.   

[Rukh O'Rorke]

I am also pretty strapped Tiny, and have had to dip heavily into my house fund, for not for the house expenses. Will not be buying any treasuries, including ibonds, until late March or April, perhaps even May.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

I noted in another thread someone but putting here too.....

I have figured out that I can buy treasuries directly through vanguard rollover IRA, so have picked up a few of those. Just learning and smaller amounts till I get the hang of it.

Not the same function really as having them in taxable, but considering target AA allocation changes, and this is helpful......