Overturning Roe v Wade?

[Opti]

May 11, 2022 11:22:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 11, 2022 11:10:10 GMT -5 justme said:

So watching news and some douche canoe politician was talking about liberals forcing abortion rights (might have been a different word) on people. Not the first time I've heard it. Still don't get it. Having the ability to get an abortion doesn't mean you must. Those anti abortion don't ever have to have one. I just don't get why they keep using "force" in their argument because the only one wanting to force people to do something are those wanting to outlaw abortion.

Well, according to Ex 2.0 that is VERY pro-life, "Women should not have that kind of power.  At the very least the father should have a say in if his child is murdered"

I get that as a man this may suck, but there's no way to be totally fair until we are using artificial wombs and all pregnancies are intentional. At least if it was an artificial womb, a man could take over all payments for the gestation and the woman could sign away her rights to the fetus to him. Until we get there, the woman should get the deciding vote. Not the father, not some church, not a government.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 11, 2022 11:22:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 11, 2022 11:10:10 GMT -5 justme said:

So watching news and some douche canoe politician was talking about liberals forcing abortion rights (might have been a different word) on people. Not the first time I've heard it. Still don't get it. Having the ability to get an abortion doesn't mean you must. Those anti abortion don't ever have to have one. I just don't get why they keep using "force" in their argument because the only one wanting to force people to do something are those wanting to outlaw abortion.

Well, according to Ex 2.0 that is VERY pro-life, "Women should not have that kind of power.  At the very least the father should have a say in if his child is murdered"

Because that would end well in abusive relationships

Until or unless women are protected and we can ensure that if he refuses he's on the hook for the next 18 year because it took two to tango and two to choose lifes it needs to remain my choice and my choice alone.

[Opti]

May 11, 2022 12:16:39 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 11, 2022 11:22:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Well, according to Ex 2.0 that is VERY pro-life, "Women should not have that kind of power.  At the very least the father should have a say in if his child is murdered"

Because that would end well in abusive relationships

Until or unless women are protected and we can ensure that if he refuses he's on the hook for the next 18 year because it took two to tango and two to choose lifes it needs to remain my choice and my choice alone.

As it is, wealthy men who cheat often convince their mistress to have an abortion by paying for it. 

[djAdvocate]

May 11, 2022 10:28:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 10, 2022 22:46:07 GMT -5 justme said:

Just reminding myself that the crazy person I haven't unfriended on fb will just come up with some crazy reason why I'm wrong that a law forbidding a medical procedure is not in any way similar to encouraging people to get a vaccine while allowing those that don't to test.

She also thinks Biden is behind gas prices so it's not worth the electrons.

Well, Biden is apparently behind the baby formula shortage too now.  The conspiracy is very deep!

it is amazing that he is this powerful.
all the more reason to vote for him.
he can get shit done!

[djAdvocate]

i couldn't resist looking up Biden's approval.  it is down precisely 1% since the November 4th.  it is up 1% since late Feb.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 11, 2022 12:22:48 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 11, 2022 12:16:39 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Because that would end well in abusive relationships

Until or unless women are protected and we can ensure that if he refuses he's on the hook for the next 18 year because it took two to tango and two to choose lifes it needs to remain my choice and my choice alone.

As it is, wealthy men who cheat often convince their mistress to have an abortion by paying for it. 

And they will continue to do.so because the law doesn't apply if you have enough cash.

[minnesotapaintlady]

May 11, 2022 12:16:39 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 11, 2022 11:22:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Well, according to Ex 2.0 that is VERY pro-life, "Women should not have that kind of power.  At the very least the father should have a say in if his child is murdered"

Because that would end well in abusive relationships

That is why if I had a daughter I would teach her to not tell a soul, not even the father, until she has decided to carry to term.  If its a bad situation he never needs to know.

[djAdvocate]

May 11, 2022 12:28:31 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 11, 2022 12:22:48 GMT -5 Opti said:

As it is, wealthy men who cheat often convince their mistress to have an abortion by paying for it. 

And they will continue to do.so because the law doesn't apply if you have enough cash.

this is a good argument for why the GOP might NOT press to get this done nationally.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 11, 2022 12:34:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 11, 2022 12:16:39 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Because that would end well in abusive relationships

That is why if I had a daughter I would teach her to not tell a soul, not even the father, until she has decided to carry to term.  If its a bad situation he never needs to know.

I had the same conversation with my parents.

DH hit the roof when I said the same thing to Gwen.

I'm sorry but I'm stuck if you refuse abortion and you're probably going to refuse adoption as well. But yet you can leave with zero repercussions at any time.

So no until the man is considered by law to be just as responsible as me and our system is set up to protect me and ensure you're on the hook this is how it goes if the girls get pregnant.

It's one of the few areas I've told him.no.vagina no opinion.

[minnesotapaintlady]

May 11, 2022 12:43:28 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 11, 2022 12:34:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

That is why if I had a daughter I would teach her to not tell a soul, not even the father, until she has decided to carry to term.  If its a bad situation he never needs to know.

I had the same conversation with my parents.

DH hit the roof when I said the same thing to Gwen.

I'm sorry but I'm stuck if you refuse abortion and you're probably going to refuse adoption as well. But yet you can leave with zero repercussions at any time.

So no until the man is considered by law to be just as responsible as me and our system is set up to protect me and ensure you're on the hook this is how it goes if the girls get pregnant.

It's one of the few areas I've told him.no.vagina no opinion.

And sometimes it has nothing to do with finances.  Sometimes the woman does not want to be forced to maintain ties with the father.  She might be desperately trying to figure out how to get away from him entirely.  Finding out you're pregnant in this situation can be devastating.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 11, 2022 12:59:45 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 11, 2022 12:43:28 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I had the same conversation with my parents.

DH hit the roof when I said the same thing to Gwen.

I'm sorry but I'm stuck if you refuse abortion and you're probably going to refuse adoption as well. But yet you can leave with zero repercussions at any time.

So no until the man is considered by law to be just as responsible as me and our system is set up to protect me and ensure you're on the hook this is how it goes if the girls get pregnant.

It's one of the few areas I've told him.no.vagina no opinion.

And sometimes it has nothing to do with finances.  Sometimes the woman does not want to be forced to maintain ties with the father.  She might be desperately trying to figure out how to get away from him entirely.  Finding out you're pregnant in this situation can be devastating.

I was more referring to as it currently stands men face little to no consequences for getting someone pregnant.

And they'd face no consequences after forcing a woman to keep it either.

He wants a say he has to be held responsible in some fashion. Pocketbook would likely be the easiest because we know how well shotgun weddings usually work


And let's be honest no way in hell.any of these prolife men actually want to be held liable on their end. Maybe that would shut them.up.and they can keep their legs closed for a change

[minnesotapaintlady]

May 11, 2022 13:04:33 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 11, 2022 12:59:45 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

And sometimes it has nothing to do with finances.  Sometimes the woman does not want to be forced to maintain ties with the father.  She might be desperately trying to figure out how to get away from him entirely.  Finding out you're pregnant in this situation can be devastating.

I was more referring to as it currently stands men face little to no consequences for getting someone pregnant.

And they'd face no consequences after forcing a woman to keep it either.

He wants a say he has to be held responsible in some fashion. Pocketbook would likely be the easiest because we know how well shotgun weddings usually work

100% agree.  

Still on my "don't tell" train of thought.  

[thyme4change]

May 11, 2022 11:22:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 11, 2022 11:10:10 GMT -5 justme said:

So watching news and some douche canoe politician was talking about liberals forcing abortion rights (might have been a different word) on people. Not the first time I've heard it. Still don't get it. Having the ability to get an abortion doesn't mean you must. Those anti abortion don't ever have to have one. I just don't get why they keep using "force" in their argument because the only one wanting to force people to do something are those wanting to outlaw abortion.

Well, according to Ex 2.0 that is VERY pro-life, "Women should not have that kind of power.  At the very least the father should have a say in if his child is murdered"

At this point, I would take that as a compromise, even though it would suck ass on so many levels. I am not sure how you are going to prove that the guy who gives permission is the actual creator of the sperm. You could do a DNA test after the procedure and if the results don't match - then whoops - whatcha gonna do? If they start doing in-utero DNA, then it will have the opposite effect for rape victims, as they will be less likely to find the guy. The good news is, they will never pass a law requiring men to give their DNA - that would be way too invasive and unfair. 🙄

[happyhoix]

May 11, 2022 11:10:10 GMT -5 justme said:

So watching news and some douche canoe politician was talking about liberals forcing abortion rights (might have been a different word) on people. Not the first time I've heard it. Still don't get it. Having the ability to get an abortion doesn't mean you must. Those anti abortion don't ever have to have one. I just don't get why they keep using "force" in their argument because the only one wanting to force people to do something are those wanting to outlaw abortion.

The GOP needs their boogie men.

In Florida, conservatives were sending fake notices to parents stating their kids would be forcibly taken away for gender reassignment surgery.

Not sure why a school would want to spend an enormous amount of money to switch sexes on some kids, but that didn’t stop them from raising the threat of it.

[Opti]

May 10, 2022 7:17:13 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 10, 2022 6:28:37 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I thought this is a state issue. That’s what anti abortion activists have said all these years. But republicans are talking about a national ban. I bet scgal will support these same politicians despite her previous statement that this is a state issue

I think that would have some merit and as I do lean right. I would say I wouldn't support a national ban. I have said it her many times a medical abortion is ok, hell I will even say on a state level up until a heartbeat. 

Anything more you like to say about me!

I don't get the heartbeat as the current marker for some people. I think viability is a better marker. I know this is probably not true of scgal, but many of the people who want to force woman to carry to birth no matter what couldn't even be persuaded to wear a mask to protect currently living people for 30 minutes, an hour in a store or several hours on a flight. Carrying a child to term is a much bigger commitment. 

If you show you won't protect living people, why should I think you are at all sincere and worthy when pretending to protect a fetus?

[djAdvocate]

May 11, 2022 13:40:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 10, 2022 7:17:13 GMT -5 scgal said:

I think that would have some merit and as I do lean right. I would say I wouldn't support a national ban. I have said it her many times a medical abortion is ok, hell I will even say on a state level up until a heartbeat. 

Anything more you like to say about me!

I don't get the heartbeat as the current marker for some people. I think viability is a better marker. I know this is probably not true of scgal, but many of the people who want to force woman to carry to birth no matter what couldn't even be persuaded to wear a mask to protect currently living people for 30 minutes, an hour in a store or several hours on a flight. Carrying a child to term is a much bigger commitment. 

If you show you won't protect living people, why should I think you are at all sincere and worthy when pretending to protect a fetus?

i agree with you.  and most of the world does, too.  the thing is, though, that viability is basically 3rd trimester, and that is how the law generally works in the US ALREADY.

so, basically what you are saying is that you want things how they are.  and i get that.  but i don't think that is going to happen.

[thyme4change]

If a conservative Catholic nation like Ireland can pass a constitutional amendment to make abortion legal, I am hoping this set-back ends up being a blip - until Gen-Z can get in there are start voting.

However, this whole thing feels quite dystopic.

[justme]

May 11, 2022 16:09:47 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If a conservative Catholic nation like Ireland can pass a constitutional amendment to make abortion legal, I am hoping this set-back ends up being a blip - until Gen-Z can get in there are start voting.

However, this whole thing feels quite dystopic.

But the Irish have a heart and care that the poor woman suffered and had her life taken from her. I'm not so certain there's enough people here with a heart, but maybe I'm being too much of a pessimist.

[Tennesseer]

A six week old fetus when a heartbeat is detected.  Looks more like the creature which came out of the crewmembers chest in Alien.



Fetal development week by week

[Tiny]

May 11, 2022 12:43:28 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 11, 2022 12:34:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

That is why if I had a daughter I would teach her to not tell a soul, not even the father, until she has decided to carry to term.  If its a bad situation he never needs to know.

I had the same conversation with my parents.

DH hit the roof when I said the same thing to Gwen.

I'm sorry but I'm stuck if you refuse abortion and you're probably going to refuse adoption as well. But yet you can leave with zero repercussions at any time.

So no until the man is considered by law to be just as responsible as me and our system is set up to protect me and ensure you're on the hook this is how it goes if the girls get pregnant.

It's one of the few areas I've told him.no.vagina no opinion.

Is it still assumed that women are responsible for the BC part of the canoodling? Cause if guys are still taking it for granted that the "BC is taken care of" then they most certainly have no say in what happens afterwards. Cause, you know, If I'm responsible for something and it doesn't go as planned - you don't get to tell me what to do about it.... I have the authority - it goes with that responsibility. You didn't indicate you were interested in responsibility - so you don't get a say.

[teen persuasion]

May 11, 2022 11:10:10 GMT -5 justme said:

So watching news and some douche canoe politician was talking about liberals forcing abortion rights (might have been a different word) on people. Not the first time I've heard it. Still don't get it. Having the ability to get an abortion doesn't mean you must. Those anti abortion don't ever have to have one. I just don't get why they keep using "force" in their argument because the only one wanting to force people to do something are those wanting to outlaw abortion.

It's all their projection.  Once you see and recognize the pattern, it makes more sense.

They realize that are the ones forcing something on others, even if they won't admit that.  And they extend (project) that desire to force others outward, to also apply to whoever opposes them.  If we are on opposite sides of the issue, we must want to force them to do something, too, right?  Just, the opposite thing - Obviously!

It's very black and white thinking.  If zero abortion is good, which is why they want a ban, then someone against a ban MUST want MORE abortions.  Take that to its logical conclusion, and they say pro-choice proponents want to do abortions on everyone.

But the true opposite concept here is not zero/all abortions, it's ban/choice.  Maybe make that no-choice/choice.


Which is where I start scratching my head - aren't we supposed to have free will?  How will you know if you are "good Christians" if there are no choices left to be made?  . Shouldn't they WANT the opportunity to make the *right* choice, instead of being forced because there's no-other-option?

[billisonboard]

May 11, 2022 22:28:27 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

May 11, 2022 11:10:10 GMT -5 justme said:

So watching news and some douche canoe politician was talking about liberals forcing abortion rights (might have been a different word) on people. Not the first time I've heard it. Still don't get it. Having the ability to get an abortion doesn't mean you must. Those anti abortion don't ever have to have one. I just don't get why they keep using "force" in their argument because the only one wanting to force people to do something are those wanting to outlaw abortion.

It's all their projection.  Once you see and recognize the pattern, it makes more sense.

They realize that are the ones forcing something on others, even if they won't admit that.  And they extend (project) that desire to force others outward, to also apply to whoever opposes them.  If we are on opposite sides of the issue, we must want to force them to do something, too, right?  Just, the opposite thing - Obviously!

It's very black and white thinking.  If zero abortion is good, which is why they want a ban, then someone against a ban MUST want MORE abortions.  Take that to its logical conclusion, and they say pro-choice proponents want to do abortions on everyone.

But the true opposite concept here is not zero/all abortions, it's ban/choice.  Maybe make that no-choice/choice.


Which is where I start scratching my head - aren't we supposed to have free will?  How will you know if you are "good Christians" if there are no choices left to be made?  . Shouldn't they WANT the opportunity to make the *right* choice, instead of being forced because there's no-other-option?

It is actually choice/choice - a low risk legal medical procedure/a high risk illegal back alley procedure.

[happyhoix]

May 11, 2022 17:21:28 GMT -5 justme said:

May 11, 2022 16:09:47 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If a conservative Catholic nation like Ireland can pass a constitutional amendment to make abortion legal, I am hoping this set-back ends up being a blip - until Gen-Z can get in there are start voting.

However, this whole thing feels quite dystopic.

But the Irish have a heart and care that the poor woman suffered and had her life taken from her. I'm not so certain there's enough people here with a heart, but maybe I'm being too much of a pessimist.

I think a lot of GOP have simplified abortions to just being about silly teenage girls who couldn’t keep their legs shut and now they need to have the babies and give them away to nice Christian couples to raise.

They don’t understand (or don’t care) about the women having miscarriages, where the fetus has become non viable because the membranes have ruptured but it can continue to have a heart beat - sometimes for days. Or all the other many reasons why abortion might be medically, psychologically or financially a necessary option.

Unfortunately we may have to have the same kind of incident Ireland had before any of the ardent anti abortion people realize what the unintended consequences could be.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 12, 2022 9:06:36 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 11, 2022 17:21:28 GMT -5 justme said:

But the Irish have a heart and care that the poor woman suffered and had her life taken from her. I'm not so certain there's enough people here with a heart, but maybe I'm being too much of a pessimist.

I think a lot of GOP have simplified abortions to just being about silly teenage girls who couldn’t keep their legs shut and now they need to have the babies and give them away to nice Christian couples to raise.

They don’t understand (or don’t care) about the women having miscarriages, where the fetus has become non viable because the membranes have ruptured but it can continue to have a heart beat - sometimes for days. Or all the other many reasons why abortion might be medically, psychologically or financially a necessary option.

Unfortunately we may have to have the same kind of incident Ireland had before any of the ardent anti abortion people realize what the unintended consequences could be.

I don't think our crop of evangelicals care. They are heavy into the puritanical belief that if something bad happens it is because God wants you to suffer.

So if a woman.dies for whatever reason related to abortion or miscarriage clearly she was a shitty person. It has nothing to.do with their lobbying or votes. It was God's will.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My mom worked for one of the larger Catholic hospitals in the county. If you read their doctrines it would make your hair curl.

Women are being sent home or wheeled into a waiting area while bleeding out because if there is still a heartbeat doctors are not supposed to interfere.

Doctors will be terminated if they prescribe or are even caught discussing birth control or sterilization with patients. They must refer them to.doctors outside the affiliated hospital.

If I have something happen during birth DH is not given the choice the doctor must attempt to save the baby even if it means I.die.

That's what we have to look forward to ladies and gentlemen.

It's having a severe impact in.areas where they.are the only chain. I'm lucky and have two others I can currently choose from but not if the SC gets their way. I live inIowa and work in Nebraska. I'm fucked.
People are idiots if they think all that will happen is now teenagers will stop having sex.

This passes I'm pushing DH to get snipped. I got four more years on my.IUD. I am done having kids and in.a land where I don't matter I want to make sure there is zero chance of an oopsie.

It's his turn to take one for the team.

[djAdvocate]

when i was born, my parents were not allowed to use contraception.
if they were, i would probably not have been born, because i was clearly an accident.

if that sounds like me advocating for that position, i am not.
i had a very difficult childhood, and my parents were divorced when i was four.
fortunately, my mom had a rather large inheritance, or it would have destroyed her.

[thyme4change]

Can't we tell Republicans that the only people who would even consider having an abortion are far left atheist, liberal activists and by outlawing it, they will have babies and raise them to be far left atheist, liberal activists?

Maybe we can piggy back and tell them that women are mad and they all went out and bought assault rifles. Maybe we can get some gun control as well as bodily autonomy.

[andi9899]

May 11, 2022 11:22:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 11, 2022 11:10:10 GMT -5 justme said:

So watching news and some douche canoe politician was talking about liberals forcing abortion rights (might have been a different word) on people. Not the first time I've heard it. Still don't get it. Having the ability to get an abortion doesn't mean you must. Those anti abortion don't ever have to have one. I just don't get why they keep using "force" in their argument because the only one wanting to force people to do something are those wanting to outlaw abortion.

Well, according to Ex 2.0 that is VERY pro-life, "Women should not have that kind of power.  At the very least the father should have a say in if his child is murdered"

The more you tell us about him, the more I want to punch him in the face.

[teen persuasion]

May 12, 2022 16:00:57 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Can't we tell Republicans that the only people who would even consider having an abortion are far left atheist, liberal activists and by outlawing it, they will have babies and raise them to be far left atheist, liberal activists?

Maybe we can piggy back and tell them that women are mad and they all went out and bought assault rifles. Maybe we can get some gun control as well as bodily autonomy.

Every time they whine about murdering babies every life is sacred, I want to scream "but what about banning guns? Logically, to save lives, we should ban guns." A gun's purpose IS to kill somebody.

[giramomma]

May 11, 2022 13:40:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 10, 2022 7:17:13 GMT -5 scgal said:

I think that would have some merit and as I do lean right. I would say I wouldn't support a national ban. I have said it her many times a medical abortion is ok, hell I will even say on a state level up until a heartbeat. 

Anything more you like to say about me!

I don't get the heartbeat as the current marker for some people. I think viability is a better marker. I know this is probably not true of scgal, but many of the people who want to force woman to carry to birth no matter what couldn't even be persuaded to wear a mask to protect currently living people for 30 minutes, an hour in a store or several hours on a flight. Carrying a child to term is a much bigger commitment. 

If you show you won't protect living people, why should I think you are at all sincere and worthy when pretending to protect a fetus?

Well, to top it off...there's still a chance that a heartbeat doesn't appear at 6 weeks. 7 weeks is the standard for detecting the heartbeat in my parts. The RE clinic we went to for the peanut wouldn't do heart beat scans until 7 weeks. And my HCG was high enough they were worried I was carrying twins with the peanut.

Viability I think is harder..

Who defines what viable is? And what a good quality of life is?

I had a work colleague that gave birth to a 22-23 weeker. It might have been closer to 22 weeks. Because literally, she found out the gender at 20 weeks, and then bam! the baby was born via emergency c-section.

22/23 weeks is not the 3rd trimester. Her kiddo spent 9 months in the NICU. He was mostly blind. I think he could hear though. When he cam home, he was still on machines that helped him breath and a feeding tube. Last I saw him...when he was about 2 years age adjusted, he was starting to catch up. He could run, could feed himself, etc. He was looking at multiple heart surgeries, over his lifetime, and there were other physical issues (I'd like like say kidney) that required a few surgeries to correct.

When last we talked, she still wasn't sure where her kiddo would land cognitively.