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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2011 16:49:17 GMT -5
I think a bit differently about this. The better school you go to, the less concerned you have to be about major. If you go to Harvard, you are in the top 0.01% of all students, and even an English degree is probably going to set you up for an excellent job. I have a nephew with an English degree from Middlebury (one tier below the Ivies) who got a good job at a publishing house in NY. Of course, his parents paid for his education so he doesn't need to pay off loans with that salary or he'd probebly be in deep trouble. I'm sure that company wouldn't look twice at an English major from a state U. Similarly, we have friends whose daughter is studying art history at U. of Kansas. She figures she'll get a Master's and work in a museum. Her parents are of very modest means and I suspect she'll have a lot of loans. I can't imagine there are a lot of museum curator jobs out there and the decent ones will be looking for fancier degrees.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 16, 2011 16:58:03 GMT -5
These are excellent points Athena.
The overwhelming majority of people I met in graduate school who were studying art history or humanities (and I met a few) were from wealthy families. It is much easier to find a job as a curator if your parents (and their friends) are sustaining members of a museum and have attended benefits for decades. You have networks that help you find good jobs and navigate the cultural difficulties in meeting people you need to meet.
There are excellent jobs in editing, publishing, media, etc. that heavily recruit from top-tier schools in ways they do not from state universities (and particularly non-elite state universities). The networks are already built in as many of the people who work and lead these companies came from these schools, and you are getting high quality students.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2011 17:39:11 GMT -5
I studied philosophy because I planned to go to law school, but that didn't pan out. So I worked crap jobs until I found a good one that would pay for me to go to grad school. I currently work an entry level job in logistics and getting a Masters in communication and information studies (company is paying my tuition). I would like to progress into management positions within logistics. It's not nursing/engineering/accounting, but I understand it and can see myself doing well in the field.
There are two types of people: those who see education as a means to an end, and those who see education as an end in and of itself. I'm in the second group.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 16, 2011 18:01:49 GMT -5
There are plenty of people who appreciate education both as a means to accomplish their career goals and as an end in and of itself.
College enrollment has grown rapidly over the last few decades, and it hasn't been because people woke up and decided that they needed to read more Foucault. Survey after survey shows that the overwhelming majority of people attend college for their career and to make more money. For most people, advice about degrees that line people up for a good career are going to be more important that which degrees are the most 'end in and of themselves'.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2011 18:42:44 GMT -5
Stats, that's true. I also think the oversaturation of college grads has led to just about every remotely decent job requiring a Bachelors degree.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2011 20:03:12 GMT -5
There are two types of people: those who see education as a means to an end, and those who see education as an end in and of itself. I'm in the second group. I really was in both groups. My degree is in Math and I knew darn well I wanted to have a degree in something that had a good career path and I ended up as an actuary. I LOVED college, though. Every quarter I was like a kid in a candy store picking out what I wanted to learn. I fulfilled all the requirements in my major but really enjoyed choosing electives and learning new things. It was a great time in my life.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Apr 16, 2011 21:13:33 GMT -5
Philosophy is worth learning and a great field of knowledge...unless you want to use your degree to have a steady career. Then, not so much.
When these discussions pop up on a money board, clearly people are going to approach it from the perspective of what majors are acceptable for a career; ones that will allow you to live a comfortable, middle class lifestyle.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 16, 2011 21:30:38 GMT -5
DH's associates degree allowed him to be certified as a vet tech. He makes decent money and can work graveyards (more money and saves us money in daycare), and since he went to the community college, the cost was very low. The Bachelors degree in biology and chemistry seems to only qualify him for unpaid internships, or grad school... I tell him (and myself) that in 30 years we'll be glad we did it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 16, 2011 22:33:10 GMT -5
Physical therapy was pushed until there became a glut of them. I still see even the internet pushing paralegal degrees when there are lawyers out there without jobs and doing legal work for paralegal wages. Teachers are a dime a dozen, low paying and demanding jobs. Good school districts are crammed with older ones with tenure who will stay there until they die so unless you are willing to teach in a bad area or relocate to where there are jobs, forget it. It just makes no sense to get a lot of loans, although you can't anymore, for a degree that won't pay off. I still think the good rule of thumb is no more loan than the first years income.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 16, 2011 23:50:35 GMT -5
Tbird, I think many students just kind of 'fall into' these majors.
Few students come to college thinking they are going to be sociology or psychology majors (for example). Many move into these majors because the degrees have few prerequistes, the students have not found a major that interests them, and they probably liked a class they took.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Apr 17, 2011 7:22:37 GMT -5
I guess I need to sign off now. I didn't attend college.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Apr 17, 2011 7:49:10 GMT -5
I was talking to a friend a few months ago. Her son graduated with my son almost 8 years ago from HS. He went to a private college, not state. I never asked but I think he had some loans. I don't think his parents paid for it at least not all of it. He is thinking of going to get his Masters or something. At a college a long way away. So he will have to quit his job that he has, take out more loans, live in an apt somewhere and still not sure if he will have a job at the end of it all. As usual, I put my foot in my mouth and said 'what will he be able to do with this advanced degree?' Her reply as she looked at me with a look of shock 'well, it's something that can never be taken away from him.'
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Apr 17, 2011 8:00:50 GMT -5
Dang! I have 14 karmas!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2011 8:08:55 GMT -5
Snerd, you usually have to wait until your second year of college to formally declare a major, so you take some core classes and 1 or 2 electives (or what you have called "bs classes"). Lots of people who were iffy about their major may realize that they would much rather study that field that they took one elective class for. Astronomy courses can come in handy in different disciplines: mathematics, physics, chemistry.... Not everything that's not immediately major-related is a BS course. Some people like being well rounded. And as long as the loans get paid off, why should you or anyone else care?
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Apr 17, 2011 8:11:23 GMT -5
Re: hair styling, I think this can be a great career for the right person... unless you're working at Super Clips or a place like that, you can bring home $1K a week before taxes. DH's cousin rents a chair in a large salon a few days a week and makes at least that much, plus it's PT and flexible so she can spend a lot of time with her daughter. Her prices are pretty low, $20ish for a haircut, $40 for highlights, perm, etc. I'm sure the higher-end stylists can make a killing. Other than that, approved degrees: engineering, chemical anything, nursing, pharmacy, computer science. My daughter has expressed an interest in going to cosmetology school. Is it what I want her to do - NO. Is it better than going to school for a few years, racking up loans, spending my money on an undefined goal, etc. - YES. I look at it this way - she will learn a skill and be able to secure some type of employment when she's done. If she's good, she'll be able to make a decent living at it. If after 5 years she doesn't like it, she can pursue something else. And in the long run, she will always have this to fall back on. Her paternal grandmother is a stylist but doesn't work in that field anymore. She has kept her license current though so she could go back to it if she ever needs to.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Apr 17, 2011 8:14:54 GMT -5
Re: Hair, I think it's great that you can set your own hours and work when you want to. Of course you don't get paid, but if someone wants to go to school at night or has small children, working 2 mornings a week, 1 night a week and Saturdays would be ideal.
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Post by tt00 on Apr 17, 2011 12:27:41 GMT -5
Degrees don't guarantee anything these days. Just get you through the corp red tape to apply for a position.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2011 13:19:34 GMT -5
Tbird, I agree 100% with what you just said. Many people just can't see the forest for the trees.
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IPAfan
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Post by IPAfan on Apr 18, 2011 9:52:37 GMT -5
I think law can make sense, but only if you're extremely careful to keep your overall debt load down. I've found the profession rewarding so far, but it would be totally different if I were drowning in debt.
I expect MOST law graduates with 6 figures of debt are going to have a hard existence for a long time. The only exceptions to the 6 figure debt rule are those that can: 1) foist their law school bill onto the taxpayers; or 2) graduate at the top 1/3 of their class from a top law school and be willing to work 100 hour weeks for the next 10 years.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 18, 2011 10:09:02 GMT -5
Yes, the list is fairly short. You shouldn't f*** around with 4 years of your life and take on extraordinary amounts of debt, unless you've got a good plan and ability to support yourself post graduation.
This.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 10:16:21 GMT -5
I don't think it's an issue if people realize what kind of money they'll be making after graduation. Not everyone expects to be rolling in it, and that's okay too. As long as they can support themselves and their SLs get paid off, I don't see the problem. The world needs social workers, legal aid workers, and corporate drudges as well as engineers, accountants, and nurses.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 18, 2011 10:17:42 GMT -5
I sort of agree with the folks that say "there's no list." The truth is that it matters much more what you do with your degree, rather than where you get it or what kind it is.
It used to be that going to college was an achievement in and of itself. Even if you majored in basket weaving, it proved that you were able to follow through on things and focus on a goal and all that good stuff. Today, a college degree has no inherent value - except that which people arbitrarily assign to it for the purposes of paring down the number of applicants for a position.
Today, a college degree is worth whatever you want it to be worth.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Apr 18, 2011 11:39:48 GMT -5
Of the trades that a poster listed (mechanic, electrician, plumber, carpenter), I like mechanic the best. A mechanic is the only trade listed that is not tied to some extent to the construction industry. As we are all aware, the construction industry follows a boom and bust cycle. With each bust, there are lots of unemployed electricians, plumbers, carpenters, HVAC technicians, roofers, framers, tile setters, concrete masons, brick layers, drywall hangers and tapers, painters, etc., etc. competing for what few jobs there are and cutting prices so they have at least some money coming in. Auto mechanics, on the other hand, probably experience an increase in business as people try to keep older cars in service a few years longer.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 18, 2011 18:59:21 GMT -5
DH is going back to school for his A.A.S. in auto technology, glad some consider it a good trade (because I am already starting to itch a bit at the one-income lifestyle ;D)
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