Did defund the police movement increase murders in the Black

[Value Buy]

community or is the death rate by murder deeper than just the defunding the police movement?
Is it cause and affect or is something else is going on?

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/massive-increase-in-black-americans-murdered-was-result-of-defund-police-movement-experts/ar-AAWlLbJ?li=BBnb7Kz

[Value Buy]

I would like to see the numbers for 2021 before making an informed decision.........
Either way, for whatever reason the numbers for 2020 were atrocious.......

[billisonboard]

Is it the "movement" or actual defunding which caused the increase? The later should be easy to test using local instead of national numbers. Do areas where there was an actual decrease in funding show a corresponding increase in murders?

[Opti]

Crime has been up many places due to tensions from the pandemic. Lots of craziness out there. I really hope it starts slowing down as life is much easier than it was in 2020.

[Value Buy]

Apr 19, 2022 9:25:34 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Is it the "movement" or actual defunding which caused the increase? The later should be easy to test using local instead of national numbers. Do areas where there was an actual decrease in funding show a corresponding increase in murders?

OK, not the movement, but the actual result from defunding departments. Truthfully other than some very large cities, how many state, county, city or towns have defunded their departments.
The murders are not all in the major metropolitan areas, so the movement might be partof it. 
I am wondering if Prosecuters across the nation not putting a sufficient bail amount on people who have actually shot someone, or beating someone hard enough for severe injury, has contributed to a larger contributing factor to the increase in murder rates of blacks.
A lack of worrying about consequences for their actions by the perpetrator, so to speak can add to the increased murder rates.
Or is it a morality breakdown of the country as a whole?
Defunding the police may be a contributing factor, but I believe it is a combination of factors.

I dropped posting on the old Chiraq thread, but darn, the numbers are still crazy in Chicago, so defunding might not be the contributing factor there. Defending drug turf from rival gangs is.

[Deleted]

Idk the answers to the questions asked in the OP.

I do have thoughts though, living near an are with high crime.

Imo, no matter how many police officers are in a particular area, they only show up after a crime has been committed. I’ve had police officers tell me that they don’t get in a hurry to get to calls where gunshots have been fired. They take their time getting there, hoping that things have calmed down by the time they arrive in the scene. I don’t agree with that, but what can I do about it? This was them being honest years before things really got bad in the area I live in.

I’ll say and acknowledge that Black on Black crime is a serious problem, even where I live. I have no idea how to stop it. But what I do know is that the assholes that commit those heinous crimes, know not to act a fool in the suburbs and surrounding areas where they know the police don’t play. 

The area I live in borders Mississippi, a lot of young people don’t even go that way, because they know Mississippi is not known for treating Black people fairly. The suburbs on both sides of where I live, are known not to to tolerate foolishness, even if it’s something as benign as a traffic stop.

But they feel like everything is fair game within the city limits. By the time police arrive on the scene, they are long gone. I’m not a criminal, but even I know that.

Honestly, I don’t believe that more police will help solve the problem. Young people in the city need something productive to do, beyond going to school. As much as I’d rather not air our dirty laundry for other people to get shits and giggles from it, the truth is that many of our children feel hopeless. The streets appeal to them because it offers fast money and much more money than they’d get sitting in a classroom and running a long term game.

When DD was in high school, she had a classmate that was a good student, but also believed she wouldn’t live to be an adult. Real talk, she really thought she would die very young because of her family.

I don’t know how to get at risk youths to choose long money over fast money. Even in the game of dominoes, if you are a beginner trying to learn, old heads will tell you that all money is not good money. That’s true for dominoes, and IRL. But these new folks in the streets give no fucks. The OG’s have issues with these new folks, because the OG’s had rules (they only really messed with others in the game, and women and children were especially off limit, even in war) and these new folks have none. There are no rules anymore, anybody can get it. Any random person can be killed, and it’s okay with these “new” people.

I’d really rather live somewhere that street life and what I know about it, does not matter at all. I can just live in peace and enjoy my home. 

[Value Buy]

Pink, thanks for a well thought our response!

For my part, I do believe Defund the police and BLM movement headlines are a small part of the problem and are more like talking points for either side on this question.

I do believe the current spike started after trump was elected and democrats could not handle that happening, and continued to stir their folowers to stir pot.
Saying the riots were peaceful when reporters had burning buildings behind them while they reported things, sort of green lighted anything goes and prosecution is out the window.
Unfortunately, the death rate was bad even before that, but confined to a few large cities, and now it is more pronounced and has spread to many areas of the country.

I understand about police not showing up til after the fact, and we all know they can not be on every major street or corner, and does not matter because many deaths happen in front or back yards as well as late night business establishments. Even when police are posted near these late night establishments it does not stop some of the shootings to happen. FEW if any citizens want a police state where they are on every corner.
The black churches use to have some sway on the youths of their community, but it seems they are losing the younger generations just like with the white suburban churches have too. Kids have become lost to the church.
And no, church is not the overiding answer either, but political leadership regardless of ethnic background seems to lean more towards protecting the aggressor than the victims now. That has to stop.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 20, 2022 7:36:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I do believe the current spike started after trump was elected and democrats could not handle that happening, and continued to stir their folowers to stir pot.

Boy, that is some gymnastics you are doing. Be sure you don't hurt your back. Republicans are not stirring the pot and keeping their followers riled up?

[Opti]

Apr 20, 2022 8:22:17 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 20, 2022 7:36:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I do believe the current spike started after trump was elected and democrats could not handle that happening, and continued to stir their folowers to stir pot.

Boy, that is some gymnastics you are doing. Be sure you don't hurt your back. Republicans are not stirring the pot and keeping their followers riled up?

Perhaps part of it is the flowering of gun culture in the US. I'm not sure how Trump being elected would impact black on black crime.
I looked at the stats, not broken down by race, and the homicide rate from 2016 to 2019 is pretty flat. Big up tick in 2020.


usafacts.org/state-of-the-union/crime/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ND-JusticeDefense&msclkid=5a6cc997a38e1e20c2ebabf7ad517ce5

[daisylu]

Apr 19, 2022 17:49:33 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

<SNIPPED>

Honestly, I don’t believe that more police will help solve the problem. Young people in the city need something productive to do, beyond going to school. As much as I’d rather not air our dirty laundry for other people to get shits and giggles from it, the truth is that many of our children feel hopeless. The streets appeal to them because it offers fast money and much more money than they’d get sitting in a classroom and running a long term game.

When DD was in high school, she had a classmate that was a good student, but also believed she wouldn’t live to be an adult. Real talk, she really thought she would die very young because of her family.

I don’t know how to get at risk youths to choose long money over fast money. Even in the game of dominoes, if you are a beginner trying to learn, old heads will tell you that all money is not good money. That’s true for dominoes, and IRL. But these new folks in the streets give no fucks. The OG’s have issues with these new folks, because the OG’s had rules (they only really messed with others in the game, and women and children were especially off limit, even in war) and these new folks have none. There are no rules anymore, anybody can get it. Any random person can be killed, and it’s okay with these “new” people.

I’d really rather live somewhere that street life and what I know about it, does not matter at all. I can just live in peace and enjoy my home. 

This is true in many areas. Growing up, I attended school in a low crime (yes, there were some) area of Baltimore city. The elementary school in the neighborhood had an open rec center after school until 6 or 7pm. It was loaded with games, arcade games, tvs, etc. The even had people come in sometimes to do science experiments, and to teach subjects not offered in schools, like geology and astronomy. It was THE place to be. It closed due to lack of funding decades ago, and now that area is not safe to sit on your own porch. It saddens me to see what it has become.

[djAdvocate]

no

[Ombud]

Apr 19, 2022 17:49:33 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

...
no matter how many police officers are in a particular area, they only show up after a crime has been committed. 

Not sure how they would show up BEFORE a crime is committed but that would be great. Meanwhile in many cities DEFUNDING = REALLOCATE $$s so less officers.

Chese Boudin in SF has decided to not prosecute car break-ins or snatch & grab store clearances so those spiked. Blame SFPD or SF Prosecutors Office or general societal decline???

[tallguy]

May 5, 2022 19:32:51 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Apr 19, 2022 17:49:33 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

...
no matter how many police officers are in a particular area, they only show up after a crime has been committed. 

Not sure how they would show up BEFORE a crime is committed but that would be great. Meanwhile in many cities DEFUNDING = REALLOCATE $$s so less officers.

Chese Boudin in SF has decided to not prosecute car break-ins or snatch & grab store clearances so those spiked. Blame SFPD or SF Prosecutors Office or general societal decline

That may not be the problem you seem to think.  If a city is having difficulty recruiting enough officers, and they shift some functions to differently-trained personnel, can that not leave the officers they do have MORE time to deal with actual crime rather than seeing to those with mental-health issues, welfare checks, etc.? 

[Ombud]

May 5, 2022 20:04:11 GMT -5 tallguy said:

May 5, 2022 19:32:51 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Not sure how they would show up BEFORE a crime is committed but that would be great. Meanwhile in many cities DEFUNDING = REALLOCATE $$s so less officers.

Chese Boudin in SF has decided to not prosecute car break-ins or snatch & grab store clearances so those spiked. Blame SFPD or SF Prosecutors Office or general societal decline

That may not be the problem you seem to think.  If a city is having difficulty recruiting enough officers, and they shift some functions to differently-trained personnel, can that not leave the officers they do have MORE time to deal with actual crime rather than seeing to those with mental-health issues, welfare checks, etc.? 

Its not just a recruitment problem its also a retention issue. At least here. But yes, send a social worker to disarm someone.

"ok you 50 ppl running out of Macy's with armfulls of brand new merchandise, can we talk about this?"

[djAdvocate]

police have been asked to do a ton of stuff that has nothing to do with policing.  things that are the proper domain of social work have been criminalized.  the result is that officers are doing work that has nothing to do with their training, and these problems have got worse over time.

rather than fixing that, the US appears to be doubling down on the bad practices, which will ensure that they will get worse.

[tallguy]

May 5, 2022 20:37:54 GMT -5 Ombud said:

May 5, 2022 20:04:11 GMT -5 tallguy said:

That may not be the problem you seem to think.  If a city is having difficulty recruiting enough officers, and they shift some functions to differently-trained personnel, can that not leave the officers they do have MORE time to deal with actual crime rather than seeing to those with mental-health issues, welfare checks, etc.? 

Its not just a recruitment problem its also a retention issue. At least here. But yes, send a social worker to disarm someone.

"ok you 50 ppl running out of Macy's with armfulls of brand new merchandise, can we talk about this?"

That is not what anybody is doing or advocating.  If you want to maintain any credibility in this discussion you will stay away from obvious bull****.

[Ombud]

May 5, 2022 20:45:28 GMT -5 tallguy said:

May 5, 2022 20:37:54 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Its not just a recruitment problem its also a retention issue. At least here. But yes, send a social worker to disarm someone.

"ok you 50 ppl running out of Macy's with armfulls of brand new merchandise, can we talk about this?"

That is not what anybody is doing or advocating.  If you want to maintain any credibility in this discussion you will stay away from obvious bull****.

you obviously don't live in the same city as me