Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 27, 2022 11:16:41 GMT -5
I am one of those dumb people who purchased a house in 2004 and another house in 2006.
DH and I did purchase the house in which I currently live in 2012. We're selling it, and we're moving back to where we used to live.
We've looked at 16 houses. The one that I particularly want is listed at least 5% and possibly 10% above what it should be listed at. The seller's agent subtly told our agent that the sellers picked their own listing price against the agent's advice.
I cannot in my right mind overpay for a house again. I'm really not emotionally over what happened with the Great Recession.
Am I just being nit-picky over 5% to 10%? Do we keep waiting for other listings? Do we settle for a house that isn't quite what we want but is priced correctly?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 27, 2022 11:26:22 GMT -5
I don't know. We bought our house in 2007, and just now have the ability to get out of it what we had put into it. Maybe slightly more, but not substantially so.
My best of luck to you, whatever you decide!
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 27, 2022 11:32:19 GMT -5
The risk depends on how much equity you will have in the new house. Are you planning on rolling the proceeds from the sale of your 2012 house into the new one?
Can you remind me how badly underwater the 2006 house was? I seem to have forgotten the details of that saga. I remember reading it, but it was so awful that I forgot the details almost immediately.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Mar 27, 2022 11:40:15 GMT -5
I have been in this situation. One question that bubbled to the top of my problem was this:
How much will it cost you to wait?
At some point you need a place to live. A rental can fill the bill for a while, but will come with it's own cost. A 6 month lease would probably be required at a minimum. Utility hook ups and moving costs are not free either.
Real estate can appreciate around 5% a year. If you are in a hot market, it can be more. Waiting to purchase can possibly cost you more 6 months or a year from now.
If you have a reasonable down payment, and can easily afford the monthly mortgage you will not be putting yourself in that same underwater situation.
With that being said, I would not be afraid to offer what I thought a residential property was worth. Especially if the home had been listed for more than a month.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 27, 2022 11:43:45 GMT -5
The risk depends on how much equity you will have in the new house. Are you planning on rolling the proceeds from the sale of your 2012 house into the new one?
Can you remind me how badly underwater the 2006 house was? I seem to have forgotten the details of that saga. I remember reading it, but it was so awful that I forgot the details almost immediately.
Oh, I've tried to forget it too!
The 2006 house was purchased for $260K sold for $225K in 2018 (so that's $35k not $45k; I'd had to put $45k into a a separate loan when I took my XH off the mortgage, so I mixed up those #s.)
We are not rolling all of the proceeds into the next house because we're paying off every single other loan--two cars and the trailer--plus at least a portion of some student loans.
We will be putting down a minimum of 20% but up to 25% on the next house.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 27, 2022 11:48:48 GMT -5
I have been in this situation. One question that bubbled to the top of my problem was this: How much will it cost you to wait? At some point you need a place to live. A rental can fill the bill for a while, but will come with it's own cost. A 6 month lease would probably be required at a minimum. Utility hook ups and moving costs are not free either. Real estate can appreciate around 5% a year. If you are in a hot market, it can be more. Waiting to purchase can possibly cost you more 6 months or a year from now. If you have a reasonable down payment, and can easily afford the monthly mortgage you will not be putting yourself in that same underwater situation. With that being said, I would not be afraid to offer what I thought a residential property was worth. Especially if the home had been listed for more than a month. We have a 38-foot fifth wheel travel trailer. We do not have to buy a house immediately nor find a rental.
The home has been listed for over two months now, and the agents both think it's because it's listed too high.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Mar 27, 2022 12:38:37 GMT -5
If they are going to list the house too high, are they going to be problematic about other items when/if they accept your lower price? Do you like the house enough to put up with the owner-problem headache during buying it?
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Mar 27, 2022 12:51:20 GMT -5
If you like the house, make an offer you feel is appropriate. The worst that can happen is that it is rejected. Either way, your house hunt moves forward.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 27, 2022 14:02:04 GMT -5
If you like the house, make an offer you feel is appropriate. The worst that can happen is that it is rejected. Either way, your house hunt moves forward. When you make the below asking price offer - can you "sweeten" it with things you would already be doing like a quick closing or something else. Is there someway to subtle-ly tell the seller all the "money" they will be saving by NOT having to carry the house additional months (which eats into their "profit" from the house) or some other thing they will "save" on - like, I'm making this up, you aren't going to ask them do X or Y - to make the house "move in ready" or something... Have either of the realtors hinted at what other people have said about WHY they do not want to put in an offer on the house? (like "dated kitchen" or "falling down yard shed" or "it hasn't been painted gray" or what ever...) That might be of some help in a subtle negotiation.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 14:34:52 GMT -5
If you like the house, make an offer of whatever you feel is reasonable and you’re willing to pay. Or maybe a little less if you’d like to leave yourself some room to negotiate.
The sellers should be wondering by now why it hasn’t sold yet, especially with the way the market is these days. Maybe they are ready to be a little more realistic.
FWIW, we offered $11k over the asking price for our house in 2019. That went against everything I thought I knew about buying a house lol. Today, the value is more than $100k more than what we paid, according to Zillow. Even if Zillow is on the wrong side of accurate, I still think we did okay. I do understand that markets are all different though. My first house is in the same area, but about 40 minutes away. The value of that one has increased also, but not at the same rate as this house has, in the same time frame.
What does your gut say?
ETA: I meant, if you can filter out all the (understandable) noise about past experiences, what does your gut say.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 27, 2022 14:42:50 GMT -5
If they are going to list the house too high, are they going to be problematic about other items when/if they accept your lower price? Do you like the house enough to put up with the owner-problem headache during buying it? Hmmm, maybe? I think they're placing monetary home value on non-home additions to the house: e.g., a pool table, and a 100-inch television that is wired into the room with surround sound. They also want to leave the hot tub and the possibly the sectional they have infront of the massive television. There's an alarm system wired throughout the house. That's all fine and dandy, but I don't want a pool table. I would use the television simply because it's there not because I want something like that. So, I could see them being frustrated that we don't value those things as much as they do and then being difficult regarding taking and/or leaving them.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 27, 2022 14:46:32 GMT -5
If you like the house, make an offer you feel is appropriate. The worst that can happen is that it is rejected. Either way, your house hunt moves forward. If you like the house, make an offer you feel is appropriate. The worst that can happen is that it is rejected. Either way, your house hunt moves forward. When you make the below asking price offer - can you "sweeten" it with things you would already be doing like a quick closing or something else. Is there someway to subtle-ly tell the seller all the "money" they will be saving by NOT having to carry the house additional months (which eats into their "profit" from the house) or some other thing they will "save" on - like, I'm making this up, you aren't going to ask them do X or Y - to make the house "move in ready" or something... Have either of the realtors hinted at what other people have said about WHY they do not want to put in an offer on the house? (like "dated kitchen" or "falling down yard shed" or "it hasn't been painted gray" or what ever...) That might be of some help in a subtle negotiation. Yes, the sellers' real estate agent is asking the sellers if they'll entertain lower-than-listing offers. We figured this would save people's time and energy. If they flat out say no, they're not going below listing, then we will move on. If they're willing to at least discuss a lower price, then we'll do that.
No, there doesn't seem to be a house-related reason for there not being any other offers. The agents agree that it's simply the listing price, and no buyers have wanted to converse about it.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 27, 2022 14:49:43 GMT -5
If you like the house, make an offer of whatever you feel is reasonable and you’re willing to pay. Or maybe a little less if you’d like to leave yourself some room to negotiate. The sellers should be wondering by now why it hasn’t sold yet, especially with the way the market is these days. Maybe they are ready to be a little more realistic. FWIW, we offered $11k over the asking price for our house in 2019. That went against everything I thought I knew about buying a house lol. Today, the value is more than $100k more than what we paid, according to Zillow. Even if Zillow is on the wrong side of accurate, I still think we did okay. I do understand that markets are all different though. My first house is in the same area, but about 40 minutes away. The value of that one has increased also, but not at the same rate as this house has, in the same time frame. What does your gut say? ETA: I meant, if you can filter out all the (understandable) noise about past experiences, what does your gut say. Yeah, that's the actual issue, what you said in your ETA: I'm not sure my gut is trustworthy in this case.
We can afford the house even at its list price. We can afford a more expensive house; I just don't want a more expensive house. Zillow has the house at $15K less than the listing price. I just don't want to pay more than it's currently worth as that caused me great grief last time. However, the point above about having more money down this time than I did in 2004 & 2006 (since anyone could buy a house with a wink and a nod and two skittles) is a fair point.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Mar 27, 2022 15:03:14 GMT -5
I think you should listen to your gut. Offer the lower amount, don't give any rational, tell them to take the damn sofa and pool table. If they don't accept it, move on. If you open into 'here's the reasons why........' they will start an argument and figure they can negotiate up to their demands. That would be my worry. Moving is stressful enough without adding crabby sellers. You can afford to wait. You have your RV. I'd LOVE to live for a year or so in my RV!
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 27, 2022 15:56:53 GMT -5
Make that six months or so. She mentioned four seasons.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Mar 27, 2022 16:03:42 GMT -5
I'm going to be the outlier here ... the current situation is nothing like the one you greatly suffered from. It's a totally different market nowadays.
The fact that you like the house and it hasn't already sold at auction indeed proves that it's overpriced. So I'd offer 10% less, and be willing to negotiate up to 5% less, or perhaps even to list price if I REALLY wanted it.
This said, in the meantime, I'd keep checking out other houses.
Last thought: if I'm not mistaken, you're moving back to where you used to live. Might you be able to find a house through word-of-mouth?
Best of luck Chloe!!!
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Mar 27, 2022 16:08:14 GMT -5
Make that six months or so. She mentioned four seasons. I live where there are four seasons. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the cold, rainy, and drizzly seasons. Not so much the hot ones.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Mar 27, 2022 16:09:08 GMT -5
Story: we live in the (twice-extended) former garage/gardener's lodge of the HUGE house next door.
My ex and I were here when the big house was sold in 1986. Those buyers divorced, and resold. They had had a LOT of dark, good-quality, custom-made wood furniture made.
Their buyers were THRILLED to get all that custom-made dark wood furniture!!! But then THEY divorced ...
Their buyers (the current owners who have lived in the house for longer than anyone else in this story) DID NOT WANT ANY OF THAT CUSTOM-MADE DARK FURNITURE. They HATED it. Their refusal to buy it held up the sale. The sellers couldn't understand why somebody could refuse to pay for that custom-made (and old and dark) furniture.
The sellers held out ... until the buyers decided to walk. The sellers FINALLY agreed to get rid of their furniture before the sale, and the sale went through.
The wife redid the house to HER taste ... and it's AMAZING!!!
Sounds like you have a similar problem with your sellers, Chloe ... to me it's understandable that not everyone wants a hot tub/giant TV/pool table/someone else's sectional/decor.
I would suggest being honest with your RE agent. I think you should offer less, but also be prepared to walk, and keep seeing houses.
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jeffreymo
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Post by jeffreymo on Mar 27, 2022 16:21:04 GMT -5
There are so few houses for sale in our market that I’m seeing quite a few that are up for sale for the 2nd time since the pandemic. It always worries me that people are just trying to their problem properties during a hot market. Especially when you read about multiple offers over asking and waiving inspections.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Mar 27, 2022 16:30:11 GMT -5
ETA: I reread your post ... actually, I'd offer 15% less, since it's been on the market for over two months. Worst case scenario, they say no. Hopefully they'll be willing to negotiate and you can go up a bit.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 27, 2022 16:30:17 GMT -5
I have nothing to add about the house. But here we have 5 seasons: spring, summer, fall, winter, and mud
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Mar 27, 2022 16:33:20 GMT -5
There is no bad weather, just the wrong clothes! Said a long-ago friend from Norway.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 27, 2022 16:35:25 GMT -5
Maybe the question that you should be asking yourself is whether you will have to move again for your husband's job. Paying five or ten percent more than a house is worth is no big deal if you'll be staying in place for decades. It's a big stinking deal if you're gonna be uprooted every six. Those buying and selling costs add up!
You also might get better advice if you ditched the vague percentages and came clean as to whether you were considering a $150K house or a $300K house. Those buying and selling costs not only add up but they don't scale very cleanly with the value of the house. The true costs of buying or selling a cheaper house are a much higher percentage of the value of the house.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Mar 27, 2022 16:38:30 GMT -5
Keep in mind, if you wait a while to buy, mortgage rates may change, most likely increase, but you never know.
Myself, I'd figure out what I thought it was worth and make an offer a bit below that. If they aren't open to negotiating, I'd move on.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Mar 27, 2022 16:38:55 GMT -5
I think Chloe's husband could retire if he wanted to, so I doubt they'd have to move for his next job. I think he's continuing to work because Chloe has to. But I could be wrong.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 27, 2022 16:45:04 GMT -5
There is no bad weather, just the wrong clothes! Said a long-ago friend from Norway. We say that here too. But I disagree. There is bad weather. 15 degrees Fahrenheit, blowing snow, and 30 mph wind is bad weather, no matter how you are dressed
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 27, 2022 16:47:53 GMT -5
I agree that if the plan is to stay for a long time makes a difference. A few thousand dollars doesn’t make much difference over 20 years. Given the uncertainty about mortgage rates and the housing market, having this over and done may be beneficial
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Mar 27, 2022 17:37:35 GMT -5
I am one of those dumb people who purchased a house in 2004 and another house in 2006.
DH and I did purchase the house in which I currently live in 2012. We're selling it, and we're moving back to where we used to live.
We've looked at 16 houses. The one that I particularly want is listed at least 5% and possibly 10% above what it should be listed at. The seller's agent subtly told our agent that the sellers picked their own listing price against the agent's advice.
I cannot in my right mind overpay for a house again. I'm really not emotionally over what happened with the Great Recession.
Am I just being nit-picky over 5% to 10%? Do we keep waiting for other listings? Do we settle for a house that isn't quite what we want but is priced correctly? If you buy a not quite what we want house, will you spend the 5% to 10% to make the not quite into what you want? If so, wouldn’t it make more sense to just buy what you want, even if you overpay a bit?
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Mar 27, 2022 17:47:45 GMT -5
If they are going to list the house too high, are they going to be problematic about other items when/if they accept your lower price? Do you like the house enough to put up with the owner-problem headache during buying it? Hmmm, maybe? I think they're placing monetary home value on non-home additions to the house: e.g., a pool table, and a 100-inch television that is wired into the room with surround sound. They also want to leave the hot tub and the possibly the sectional they have infront of the massive television. There's an alarm system wired throughout the house. That's all fine and dandy, but I don't want a pool table. I would use the television simply because it's there not because I want something like that. So, I could see them being frustrated that we don't value those things as much as they do and then being difficult regarding taking and/or leaving them. You can let them know they are free to take them. Those items really don't add value to YOU and YOU are who matters. I'd make an offer that I was willing to negotiate on and let them counter. That's what we did on this house. While it had some unpleasant surprises for us, we at least didn't pay asking price for it.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 27, 2022 18:46:30 GMT -5
I have nothing to add about the house. But here we have 5 seasons: spring, summer, fall, winter, and mud Fair; we have three: rain, sideways rain, "summer".
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