gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Mar 27, 2022 14:45:37 GMT -5
jeffrey mo,
You just described most of the US citizenry. Most people don't think ahead or plan ahead. It is not fun and requires some self discipline.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Mar 27, 2022 16:23:45 GMT -5
Friend went into business selling cosmetics and wellness products for a MLM company. If you reached a certain level of sales with your own downlines and business builders and such, the MLM company would pay for a new or late model white Mercedes of your choice. The company required that you buy $X per month of product for yourself and your own stock. Friend was a bit short of reaching the Mercedes level as a family event approached and she really wanted to have that car in time for that event. She bought a LOT of product for her own stock to reach that level. The car was lovely, loaded with every option, and come to find out the MLM company would not buy the car outright, it would pay your lease payment each month you and your downline maintained the required sales level. Friend was committed to astronomical car lease payments. To keep up, she continued to buy product for her stock, and paid her bills with credit cards. Eventually she ended up turning in the car and filing bankruptcy to get out from under the lease payments and credit cards. She always said she chose to live a life of abundance rather than a life of scarcity. And she defined scarcity as careful spending and putting money aside for a rainy day when abundance meant she could enjoy her money RIGHT NOW. There are tons of stories like this over on www.pinktruth.com. So many have been mislead by these companies.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Mar 27, 2022 18:18:42 GMT -5
jeffrey mo, You just described most of the US citizenry. Most people don't think ahead or plan ahead. It is not fun and requires some self discipline. I have about 60 cousins. I would guess maybe 15 at most have thought of retirement and they are now at retirement age. Some will not be able to retire until their bodies give out. I have one cousin who is 68. His goal in life when we were kids was to be a bum. He has been more successful in his childhood goal than any of the rest of us. However, now he has very little Social Security because he worked off the books for so much of his life--when he did work. He lives what was once a federal backed low income housing project in a town of 200 people. It's now privately owned but rent is income based. He is supposedly on Medicare so he must be getting some Social Security. He put off so much health care until he was 65. He has no car, no phone and no television. He can't afford any of those things. From the looks of him, he hasn't had dental care either. It isn't because he isn't bright. He was an honor roll student. He lived with us when he went to a business college. He wouldn't get up and go to school so he flunked out. Loved to party. In the last two years, he has inherited a lot of money from his parents. He hasn't moved. If he had to pay market rent, it still wouldn't be much. The place is a and that isn't just his apartment. It's the entire complex. He hasn't changed his way of life. Who knows what he is doing with the inheritance.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Mar 27, 2022 18:25:56 GMT -5
I've got a friend who is buying an ice cream shop in the tiny town she lives in. I'll let you know how it goes, but I'm really skeptical. She's a sharp lady, but I doubt she's done much due diligence at all. My uncle did that with a bar that was failing. He thought he could do better even though he had no experience running a bar. It lasted about a year.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Mar 27, 2022 18:26:57 GMT -5
My sister dropped out of high school--due to stubbornness not academic dumbness. Our mother still pays for her housing. Target just upped their minimum wage again to like $24/hour. Perhaps she should apply there.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Mar 27, 2022 18:45:08 GMT -5
My sister dropped out of high school--due to stubbornness not academic dumbness. Our mother still pays for her housing. Target just upped their minimum wage again to like $24/hour. Perhaps she should apply there. They only pay $15/hour here.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Mar 27, 2022 20:02:10 GMT -5
A co-worker of mine defines financial train wreck 1. She was constantly on the phone rearranging when various creditors would pull money from her account. 2. She kept all her kids on the her health insurance even though they were working and no longer living at home. She wanted them double covered. Her husband kept telling her to drop the kids from the insurance but she wouldn't. 3. She paid all of the kids car insurance. They seemed to have multiple tickets and she was really upset when her DD bought a new SUV and how much it was going to raise her car insurance.
4. Her DS had a destination wedding and she paid for all the wedding things and then couldn't afford to fly to the wedding so she missed it. Then she paid for a reception in the local area since so many people missed the wedding. 5. She needed new brakes for her car but couldn't afford them but the dealership was willing to finance a new car for her, so she did that. 6. She was really glad that she had listened to other people and contributed to the 401K because then she had money when her kids were in high school to be able to buy them cars. Her kids were entitled brats from what I could tell and were always calling up Mom insisting she pay for this or that.
Oh hell no! My sister's youngest is entitled because she's given everything. I can't stand it.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Mar 27, 2022 23:31:07 GMT -5
A coworker first cashed out his retirement to pay all his debts so his wife could be on a lung transplant list. She didn't survive. Then one day he tells me he got a new truck, but it didn't cost anything. It was the same payment as the truck he traded in so free. He was saving nothing for retirement, got a girlfriend and married her. He didn't even like his first wife and she wasn't likely to live with a transplant. She couldn't be alone so he had to rush home after work and pay a caregiver all day. She was still alone early morning and after the caregiver left. She refused to go to a nursing home and the government said if he didn't take care of her it was neglect even leaving her alone a little morning and night could get him charged. He didn't need to spend all his retirement savings trying to qualify for a transplant and she would have lived the same amount. The free truck cost him another 7 years payments so not all the way free.
A women lived with a man without marriage, raised his kids, then married and divorced in under ten years. She was left with a new lease on a two bedroom apartment she couldn't really afford. Years later she was still in the two bedroom apartment, I asked why and she said she liked it. Her car was a gift from friends because she didn't have one, almost worn out but she put on lots of miles. Drinking in bars with her girl friends, eating food several times a day from the catering truck. At 59 she was saving $5 a week for retirement, she would be 67 now pretty sure she still needs to keep her job to support a 2 bedroom apartment for one person.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 8:07:29 GMT -5
A coworker first cashed out his retirement to pay all his debts so his wife could be on a lung transplant list. She didn't survive. Then one day he tells me he got a new truck, but it didn't cost anything. <snip> The free truck cost him another 7 years payments so not all the way free. Yeah, buying based on payment only is a BAD idea. The medical expenses remind me, though: a friend from HS is a night club musician. He's shaped like Santa Claus and eventually the impact of the excess weight did a job on his hips and he needed hip replacements. Soooo.... another HS friend started a GoFundMe for him because the guy was going to be out of work during his recovery and he didn't have insurance. This was well after ACA so he could have gotten it knowing this surgery was coming and if his income was low he could have qualified for subsidies- but he didn't have it. I donated because he was a classmate but I thought he could have planned better.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 28, 2022 8:48:10 GMT -5
What does being shaped like Santa Claus have to do with bad hips? Every person I know with hip problems was fairly skinny. My husband is tall and thin, yet has hip problems.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 28, 2022 8:56:45 GMT -5
I've got a friend who is buying an ice cream shop in the tiny town she lives in. I'll let you know how it goes, but I'm really skeptical. She's a sharp lady, but I doubt she's done much due diligence at all. My uncle did that with a bar that was failing. He thought he could do better even though he had no experience running a bar. It lasted about a year. Apparently, this ice cream shop is supposed to be very profitable. I'm not sure what all my friend looked at to determine this, or whether she really knows what she should look at to determine that. My worry is that she won't be able to find enough help, and even if she does, she's underestimating the amount of work this will be for her. She has no experience running a business with employees, plus capital assets to deal with. She's a graphic artist who has freelanced before. That's it. Her husband is a mechanic who works about 1.5 hours away. She also seems to be overwhelmed with life being a SAHM with one 7 yo girl. Maybe this will be good, to get her focus off her child all the time. The kid can't seem to entertain herself at all. But that's going to be a harsh switch for the girl always having mom's full attention, to not. I'm not sure if I'm explaining well. My friend couldn't take 15 minutes to video chat with us (group of friends on zoom) once because her daughter wanted to go play outside. She had to chat while also entertaining her child. It was weird.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 9:17:03 GMT -5
What does being shaped like Santa Claus have to do with bad hips? Every person I know with hip problems was fairly skinny. My husband is tall and thin, yet has hip problems. Here you go. www.nmortho.com/heres-why-your-weight-matters-when-addressing-hip-and-knee-pain/I'm well aware that being skinny is no guarantee of perfect health, but being overweight increases your risks for many health issues and one of them is hip problems.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 28, 2022 9:24:58 GMT -5
What does being shaped like Santa Claus have to do with bad hips? Every person I know with hip problems was fairly skinny. My husband is tall and thin, yet has hip problems. Here you go. www.nmortho.com/heres-why-your-weight-matters-when-addressing-hip-and-knee-pain/I'm well aware that being skinny is no guarantee of perfect health, but being overweight increases your risks for many health issues and one of them is hip problems. That really doesn't say much. Seriously, 0 out of 5 people I know with hip problems were fat, and I know lots of fat people. They absolutely do have knee problems.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 28, 2022 9:50:52 GMT -5
Does not staying married to someone who eventually inherited around $3,000,000 from parents. I just felt like I would be a high class hooker for hanging for another 17 yrs just to get money. Nah, not a bad financial just a keep my sanity decision. Yeah, you could have stayed married for the potential inheritance, and he could have divorced you. End result would be the same.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 28, 2022 9:58:24 GMT -5
That really doesn't say much. Seriously, 0 out of 5 people I know with hip problems were fat, and I know lots of fat people. They absolutely do have knee problems. 1 Anecdotes aren't data 2 Obesity is a well known risk factor for arthritis. It puts a significant strain on the joints. In addition, obesity is a factor in the outcome of joint replacement surgery, and many orthopedic surgeons will not do joint replacements on people above a certain BMI due to risk of failure and poor outcomes
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 28, 2022 9:59:13 GMT -5
Skinny people deserve sympathy if they have health problems. Fat people are always culpable in their health issues. It doesn't matter how healthy they are because you'd never be fat if you ate well/exercised.
The medical profession/researchers are also never biased against fat people.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 28, 2022 10:08:43 GMT -5
That really doesn't say much. Seriously, 0 out of 5 people I know with hip problems were fat, and I know lots of fat people. They absolutely do have knee problems. 1 Anecdotes aren't data 2 Obesity is a well known risk factor for arthritis. It puts a significant strain on the joints. In addition, obesity is a factor in the outcome of joint replacement surgery, and many orthopedic surgeons will not do joint replacements on people above a certain BMI due to risk of failure and poor outcomes 1. She's got one anecdote, I have 5. 2. I was looking for some better reference material than the marketing-related that one she linked. Maybe a study showing obese people needing hip replacements more often than thin people?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 28, 2022 10:24:56 GMT -5
1 Anecdotes aren't data 2 Obesity is a well known risk factor for arthritis. It puts a significant strain on the joints. In addition, obesity is a factor in the outcome of joint replacement surgery, and many orthopedic surgeons will not do joint replacements on people above a certain BMI due to risk of failure and poor outcomes 1. She's got one anecdote, I have 5. 2. I was looking for some better reference material than the marketing-related that one she linked. Maybe a study showing obese people needing hip replacements more often than thin people? Your numbers are irrelevant, still anecdotal. Is this good enough? www.hopkinsarthritis.org/patient-corner/disease-management/role-of-body-weight-in-osteoarthritis/#:~:text=Overweight%20women%20have%20nearly%204,or%20obesity%20and%20knee%20OA. Overweight women have nearly 4 times the risk of knee OA; for overweight men the risk is 5 times greater. Being overweight is a clear risk factor for developing OA. Population-based studies have consistently shown a link between overweight or obesity and knee OA
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 28, 2022 10:28:28 GMT -5
Skinny people deserve sympathy if they have health problems. Fat people are always culpable in their health issues. It doesn't matter how healthy they are because you'd never be fat if you ate well/exercised. The medical profession/researchers are also never biased against fat people. That is not what I said. Obesity is clearly a risk factor for many diseases. Ignoring that is malpractice. Blaming all of an overweight patients health issues is wrong and can also lead to malpractice. Medicine has not dealt with this issue well, I get that. We need to do better. But if the goal is to improve people's health, we cannot ignore obesity. And as we have seen over the last 2 years, obesity is clearly a risk factor in developing severe disease and dying from COVID. Should we just ignore that?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 28, 2022 10:32:19 GMT -5
1. She's got one anecdote, I have 5. 2. I was looking for some better reference material than the marketing-related that one she linked. Maybe a study showing obese people needing hip replacements more often than thin people? Your numbers are irrelevant, still anecdotal. Is this good enough? www.hopkinsarthritis.org/patient-corner/disease-management/role-of-body-weight-in-osteoarthritis/#:~:text=Overweight%20women%20have%20nearly%204,or%20obesity%20and%20knee%20OA. Overweight women have nearly 4 times the risk of knee OA; for overweight men the risk is 5 times greater. Being overweight is a clear risk factor for developing OA. Population-based studies have consistently shown a link between overweight or obesity and knee OA It mentions knees, which is what I said. I'm asking about hip replacements.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 28, 2022 10:42:08 GMT -5
It mentions knees, which is what I said. I'm asking about hip replacements. Here you go online.boneandjoint.org.uk/doi/full/10.1302/0301-620X.90B3.19782A statistically significant correlation between the age at surgery and BMI for those undergoing hip replacement (r = 0.1; p < 0.001) was seen. A progressive and statistically significant fall in the age at which hip replacement was undertaken was only observed as the BMI increased to 35 kg/m2 or more (p < 0.05). The mean age of the morbidly obese patients (BMI ≥ 40 kg/m2) was ten years less that of those with normal weight for their height. We have observed that both hip and knee replacements were undertaken at a younger age as the BMI increased above normal. However, statistical significance was not reached until the BMI reached 35 kg/m2. Our study shows that severe obesity is associated with a premature requirement for hip and knee replacement.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 10:43:05 GMT -5
Obesity is clearly a risk factor for many diseases. Ignoring that is malpractice. Thank you!
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 28, 2022 10:44:14 GMT -5
Skinny people deserve sympathy if they have health problems. Fat people are always culpable in their health issues. It doesn't matter how healthy they are because you'd never be fat if you ate well/exercised. The medical profession/researchers are also never biased against fat people. That is not what I said. Obesity is clearly a risk factor for many diseases. Ignoring that is malpractice. Blaming all of an overweight patients health issues is wrong and can also lead to malpractice. Medicine has not dealt with this issue well, I get that. We need to do better. But if the goal is to improve people's health, we cannot ignore obesity. And as we have seen over the last 2 years, obesity is clearly a risk factor in developing severe disease and dying from COVID. Should we just ignore that? I replied before I saw your post, but my point still stands. Should it be ignored, probably not, but it's given so much attention at this point I really don't think that's a valid argument. Could lead to malpractice doesn't mean that's likely. More often overweight people have to excessively doctor shop for Healthcare that will treat them as a whole person - if they can find it at all.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 28, 2022 10:55:46 GMT -5
That is not what I said. Obesity is clearly a risk factor for many diseases. Ignoring that is malpractice. Blaming all of an overweight patients health issues is wrong and can also lead to malpractice. Medicine has not dealt with this issue well, I get that. We need to do better. But if the goal is to improve people's health, we cannot ignore obesity. And as we have seen over the last 2 years, obesity is clearly a risk factor in developing severe disease and dying from COVID. Should we just ignore that? I replied before I saw your post, but my point still stands. Should it be ignored, probably not, but it's given so much attention at this point I really don't think that's a valid argument. Could lead to malpractice doesn't mean that's likely. More often overweight people have to excessively doctor shop for Healthcare that will treat them as a whole person - if they can find it at all. Obesity increase the risk of the following Diabetes lipid disorders hypertension risk of coronary artery disease heart failure atrial fibrillation deep venous thrombosis Cancer arthritis gout gallbladder disease gastroesophageal reflux Increased risk of pregnancy outcomes kidney stones urinary incontinence sleep apnea asthma increased susceptibility to infection If you compare that to cigarette smokers, you see a similar list lung disease cancer in multiple organs- lung, bladder, kidney, esophagus, head and neck, pancreas heart disease reflux stoke osteoporosis cataracts pregnancy complications infertility vascular disease leading to amputations I am expected to address cigarette smoking at every visit. it is a quality measure. Obesity is a risk factor for many diseases as you see. SHould it not be addressed. A physician in Ohio was sued by a family and lost because he was did not recommend strongly enough that a patient who died from heart disease stop smoking and lose weight
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 28, 2022 10:56:23 GMT -5
www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0803-xOur default assumption is always that health issues are caused or exasperated by weight and I expect the data will disprove that in many ways in the coming years. It's always nice to be able to separate ourselves from bad things, to feel like we have more control over our lives, that we're right, and other people are wrong. I get that, and weight is a really easy way to judge ourselves against others.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 28, 2022 10:56:47 GMT -5
It mentions knees, which is what I said. I'm asking about hip replacements. Here you go online.boneandjoint.org.uk/doi/full/10.1302/0301-620X.90B3.19782A statistically significant correlation between the age at surgery and BMI for those undergoing hip replacement (r = 0.1; p < 0.001) was seen. A progressive and statistically significant fall in the age at which hip replacement was undertaken was only observed as the BMI increased to 35 kg/m2 or more (p < 0.05). The mean age of the morbidly obese patients (BMI ≥ 40 kg/m2) was ten years less that of those with normal weight for their height. We have observed that both hip and knee replacements were undertaken at a younger age as the BMI increased above normal. However, statistical significance was not reached until the BMI reached 35 kg/m2. Our study shows that severe obesity is associated with a premature requirement for hip and knee replacement. Thank you (finally). I'll have to read it later, as I'm supposed to be working.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 28, 2022 11:01:49 GMT -5
www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0803-xOur default assumption is always that health issues are caused or exasperated by weight and I expect the data will disprove that in many ways in the coming years. It's always nice to be able to separate ourselves from bad things, to feel like we have more control over our lives, that we're right, and other people are wrong. I get that, and weight is a really easy way to judge ourselves against others. My issue with using weight as the easy excuse, is that you ignore other risk factors. The people I know basically overused their hips. My aunt was very active and worked on her feet a lot. Dad golfed, and walked the course. My DH had the body of a movie star, but tore his labram and has never gotten back to being able to even bowl, much less run on his lunch hour like he used to. Anyway, I really
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 28, 2022 11:03:15 GMT -5
www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0803-xOur default assumption is always that health issues are caused or exasperated by weight and I expect the data will disprove that in many ways in the coming years. It's always nice to be able to separate ourselves from bad things, to feel like we have more control over our lives, that we're right, and other people are wrong. I get that, and weight is a really easy way to judge ourselves against others. We are all judgmental. We all have things that push our buttons. For many people it is weight, and I get it. It is tied with with all kinds of emotions and self-esteem. But ignoring its negative health effects helps no one. Medicine needs to do a better job dealing with obese patients, and everyone needs to be treated honestly and with dignity. We need to leave our prejudices at the door. People judge smokers who get lung cancer, alcoholics who get cirrhosis, opiate addicts who get ill. I have yet to meet someone who has not been judgmental about those patients. A little more empathy would help society in all kinds of ways.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 28, 2022 11:04:59 GMT -5
I replied before I saw your post, but my point still stands. Should it be ignored, probably not, but it's given so much attention at this point I really don't think that's a valid argument. Could lead to malpractice doesn't mean that's likely. More often overweight people have to excessively doctor shop for Healthcare that will treat them as a whole person - if they can find it at all. Obesity increase the risk of the following Diabetes lipid disorders hypertension risk of coronary artery disease heart failure atrial fibrillation deep venous thrombosis Cancer arthritis gout gallbladder disease gastroesophageal reflux Increased risk of pregnancy outcomes kidney stones urinary incontinence sleep apnea asthma increased susceptibility to infection If you compare that to cigarette smokers, you see a similar list lung disease cancer in multiple organs- lung, bladder, kidney, esophagus, head and neck, pancreas heart disease reflux stoke osteoporosis cataracts pregnancy complications infertility vascular disease leading to amputations I am expected to address cigarette smoking at every visit. it is a quality measure. Obesity is a risk factor for many diseases as you see. SHould it not be addressed. A physician in Ohio was sued by a family and lost because he was did not recommend strongly enough that a patient who died from heart disease stop smoking and lose weight I haven't said it should be ignored. I've said it is a convenient scapegoat. There are cases that I'm not going to look up right now where women are continually told their weight is why they can't get pregnant, why they have this pain or that, and it turns out it wasn't the weight at all! I'm sure you know this, but the possibility that 1 fat person might not realize they're fat and hasnt internalized everything wrong with themselves because of that fact is why we should keep the status quo? Is it the cause or a side effect? Is it related at all? Those are questions providers should be having with patients, getting at least a baseline of data before assigning weight loss as the cure all.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 28, 2022 11:05:14 GMT -5
www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0803-xOur default assumption is always that health issues are caused or exasperated by weight and I expect the data will disprove that in many ways in the coming years. It's always nice to be able to separate ourselves from bad things, to feel like we have more control over our lives, that we're right, and other people are wrong. I get that, and weight is a really easy way to judge ourselves against others. My issue with using weight as the easy excuse, is that you ignore other risk factors. The people I know basically overused their hips. My aunt was very active and worked on her feet a lot. Dad golfed, and walked the course. My DH had the body of a movie star, but tore his labram and has never gotten back to being able to even bowl, much less run on his lunch hour like he used to. Anyway, I really Nonsmokers get lung cancer. Runners die from heart attacks. I have sleep apnea yet am not obese, whereas I have seen many obese people who do not have it. But to ignore the impact of something because someone without it gets the same disease is wrong.
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