Another SL payment is coming

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 8, 2022 9:30:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

It definitely feels like an incentive to NOT pursue forgiveness within those states that are taxing said forgiveness.  Especially for those whose SLs are $10k or less to begin with.  I had considered requesting a refund and then applying for forgiveness since 90% of my payments were made during the pandemic but when I heard about the tax situation, I'm reconsidering.

This was my situation:
Original balance: $6190
March 14, 2020 balance: $6160 (March 13th was the pandemic "pause" start date)

So I paid pretty much no interest for my loans before the pause; and definitely paid no interest during.  If I asked for the refund and then the forgiveness, I'd end up paying approximately $350 in taxes.  So that would net me ~$5800.  I'm still considering the situation.

I'm confused.  Why would you rather keep the debt than pay $350 in taxes to have it forgiven?

Also, I don't think for most people it's something they can opt out of.  For 8 million borrowers with current income on file either from FAFSA or being on IBR the last couple years, it's supposedly going to be automatic.

[haapai]

Sept 8, 2022 9:30:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

It definitely feels like an incentive to NOT pursue forgiveness within those states that are taxing said forgiveness.  Especially for those whose SLs are $10k or less to begin with.  I had considered requesting a refund and then applying for forgiveness since 90% of my payments were made during the pandemic but when I heard about the tax situation, I'm reconsidering.

This was my situation:
Original balance: $6190
March 14, 2020 balance: $6160 (March 13th was the pandemic "pause" start date)

So I paid pretty much no interest for my loans before the pause; and definitely paid no interest during.  If I asked for the refund and then the forgiveness, I'd end up paying approximately $350 in taxes.  So that would net me ~$5800.  I'm still considering the situation.

Why is this a hard decision? 

[teen persuasion]

Yeah, I don't think any of my kids will forego $20k forgiveness just because it triggers a $1200 tax bill.

[bean29]

Yes, that was what I thought.  I will still be ahead, so it would be nice if the state waived the taxes too, but if they don't, I am not going to complain about it.  I am thinking Nidena was being Facetious.

I am still unsure if this will materialize.  I hope it does, my kids would be a lot better off if it goes through.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 8, 2022 9:30:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

It definitely feels like an incentive to NOT pursue forgiveness within those states that are taxing said forgiveness.  Especially for those whose SLs are $10k or less to begin with.  I had considered requesting a refund and then applying for forgiveness since 90% of my payments were made during the pandemic but when I heard about the tax situation, I'm reconsidering.

This was my situation:
Original balance: $6190
March 14, 2020 balance: $6160 (March 13th was the pandemic "pause" start date)

So I paid pretty much no interest for my loans before the pause; and definitely paid no interest during.  If I asked for the refund and then the forgiveness, I'd end up paying approximately $350 in taxes.  So that would net me ~$5800.  I'm still considering the situation.

You are forgetting you pay interest on that.  You're going to end up paying more than the $6160 by the time you are done. 

Why would you keep paying for years to avoid a one time $350 in taxes?

I'm pursuing it I don't care if Iowa taxes me.  I am coming out ahead in the long run.  I save the interest and I am finally DONE.   That is worth the few hundred in taxes I may have to shell out.

If it is that much of a worry you're not required to pay right now the COVID program has been extended.  Take your payment and sock it it away to pay the $350 in taxes.

[nidena]

Sorry.  I forgot to include that my loans have actually been paid off since Sept 2020.

[Ava]

I guess this answers my question about how the forgiveness will be applied to different loans.
Mine are all direct. The loans with the highest interest (6.8%) are both undergraduate. One of them will disappear, and the other will be smaller. The killer for me are the two graduate loans, and those are high interest, but not as high as 6.8%. Those two loans will remain with me.
I took this information from Forbes, and copied/pasted because you can only read 4 articles a month for free.

Defaulted Department of Education-held loans;

Defaulted commercial FFEL Program loans;

Non-defaulted Direct Loan Program loans and FFEL Program loans held by the department;

Perkins Loans held by the department.

For borrowers who have multiple loans in a specific type of loan program (such as multiple Direct student loans), the department will apply the relief in this order:



Loans with highest statutory interest rate will get first priority.

If interest rates are the same, student loan forgiveness will be applied to unsubsidized loans prior to subsidized loans.

If the interest rate and subsidy status are identical, the department will apply the loan forgiveness to the most recent loan.

If the interest rate, subsidy status, and disbursement date are all the same, the department will apply the loan forgiveness to the loan with the lowest combined principal and interest balance.

Remaining Loan Balances Will be Re-Amortized After Student Loan Forgiveness

The Education Department confirmed that borrowers who have a remaining balance following the student loan forgiveness award and are repaying their loans under a Standard, Extended, or Graduated repayment plan will have their balances re-amortized. That means that the department “will recalculate your monthly payment based on your new balance, potentially reducing your monthly payment. Your loan servicer will communicate your new payment amount to you.”



Education Department officials told borrower advocates during a call last month that many borrowers may see resulting reductions in their monthly payments by potentially hundreds of dollars per month as a result of the re-amortization.

[haapai]

Re-amortization is big news.  I've really been pulling for for these debts to be re-amortized or re-cast and this is the first solid news that I have heard that they will be.

Unfortunately, folks in IDR programs might not see much improvement in their options.  This may include the options that they have for exiting an IDR program.  At worst, someone who owed $25,000 and has now had their balance reduced to $5000 may not see their payment reduced by much and the payments that they may face if they leave their IDR program may be any good either.  They could be pretty awful unless there are further announcements. 

I'm on the fence regarding the order in which debts will be forgiven.  On one hand, I like the fact that what has been announced appears to be the most favorable order of forgiveness for the greatest number of persons.  On the other hand, there are always exceptions.  I'm sure that there are plenty of borrowers who would choose to have whatever forgiveness/cancellation applied in a different way than what has been announced. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Sept 10, 2022 12:32:12 GMT -5 haapai said:

Re-amortization is big news.  I've really been pulling for for these debts to be re-amortized or re-cast and this is the first solid news that I have heard that they will be.

Unfortunately, folks in IDR programs might not see much improvement in their options.  This may include the options that they have for exiting an IDR program.  At worst, someone who owed $25,000 and has now had their balance reduced to $5000 may not see their payment reduced by much and the payments that they may face if they leave their IDR program may be any good either.  They could be pretty awful unless there are further announcements. 

I'm on the fence regarding the order in which debts will be forgiven.  On one hand, I like the fact that what has been announced appears to be the most favorable order of forgiveness for the greatest number of persons.  On the other hand, there are always exceptions.  I'm sure that there are plenty of borrowers who would choose to have whatever forgiveness/cancellation applied in a different way than what has been announced. 

so now I'm wondering if those who don't qualify for forgiveness will also get reamoritized?

That would be great for me if it did! Am I petty for wanting a little something something outta the deal?

[haapai]

You should check out the details and find out whether paying (or already having paid) a relatively small amount that you were not required to pay could potentially reset the terms of your loan(s). 

Please don't get your hopes up too high.  Just take whatever angles you get and make the most of them or pass on them. 

[Ava]

I'm still a little confused. 
All my loans are direct loans. The two loans with the highest interest are undergraduate at 6.80%.
If they apply forgiveness in the way stated above, it will eliminate one of my 6.80% interest loans. The other one will have a balance of 6k.
But, these loans will then qualify for the new payment plan. Which means I'm still stuck paying a lot for the two graduate loans which, by the way, have interest of 6.10% and 5.80%

I really don't see how this helps me.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 12, 2022 16:33:12 GMT -5 Ava said:

I'm still a little confused. 
All my loans are direct loans. The two loans with the highest interest are undergraduate at 6.80%.
If they apply forgiveness in the way stated above, it will eliminate one of my 6.80% interest loans. The other one will have a balance of 6k.
But, these loans will then qualify for the new payment plan. Which means I'm still stuck paying a lot for the two graduate loans which, by the way, have interest of 6.10% and 5.80%

I really don't see how this helps me.

Having one loan totally wiped out doesn't help you?  I guess I'm a little confused too...

[nidena]

Sept 8, 2022 11:00:46 GMT -5 haapai said:

Sept 8, 2022 9:30:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

It definitely feels like an incentive to NOT pursue forgiveness within those states that are taxing said forgiveness.  Especially for those whose SLs are $10k or less to begin with.  I had considered requesting a refund and then applying for forgiveness since 90% of my payments were made during the pandemic but when I heard about the tax situation, I'm reconsidering.

This was my situation:
Original balance: $6190
March 14, 2020 balance: $6160 (March 13th was the pandemic "pause" start date)

So I paid pretty much no interest for my loans before the pause; and definitely paid no interest during.  If I asked for the refund and then the forgiveness, I'd end up paying approximately $350 in taxes.  So that would net me ~$5800.  I'm still considering the situation.

Why is this a hard decision? 

Because the loans have been paid off for nearly 24 months already.
Because I don't know that I want to go through the steps to ask for a refund which will put them in repayment status albeit a currently still paused one.
Followed by submitting to have them forgiven which could take up to eight weeks.

And, honestly, I have mild distaste at doing it all.  Most of my degree was paid for by Tuition Assistance while Active Duty and then GI Bill after I retired from the military.  It didn't cause me any struggle to pay my student loans and I would hate for the govt to eventually decide that there is a ceiling on all this forgiveness after I got a refund but someone else is still waiting to get theirs forgiven.  Would $5000 tip the scale?  Likely not, but I prefer to be on the side of things.

[tractor]

Good news! My wife found out her loans qualify under the public service forgiveness rules...she only need to make 66 more payments on her 5-year loan! I love to government, they could have just said "no" 😊

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 13, 2022 11:09:50 GMT -5 tractor said:

Good news! My wife found out her loans qualify under the public service forgiveness rules...she only need to make 66 more payments on her 5-year loan! I love to government, they could have just said "no" 😊

But how about under the new 10K across the board forgiveness for government loans?  No public service required.

[geenamercile]

Sept 12, 2022 17:42:35 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 12, 2022 16:33:12 GMT -5 Ava said:

I'm still a little confused. 
All my loans are direct loans. The two loans with the highest interest are undergraduate at 6.80%.
If they apply forgiveness in the way stated above, it will eliminate one of my 6.80% interest loans. The other one will have a balance of 6k.
But, these loans will then qualify for the new payment plan. Which means I'm still stuck paying a lot for the two graduate loans which, by the way, have interest of 6.10% and 5.80%

I really don't see how this helps me.

Having one loan totally wiped out doesn't help you?  I guess I'm a little confused too...

My guess, is that Ava will still be paying the same amount each month under her IBR plan for the graduate loans, as she was already.  So it won't really change her monthly payment at all.  It will just be split among less loans.  If it still doesn't cover the interest for the loans, then really her loans would just grow again so does the forgiveness really make a difference. If the forgiveness brings the balance down to a point where the IBR covers interest and some principle then it at least provides a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it doesn't make a difference currently with monthly out lay.           

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 13, 2022 12:43:07 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 13, 2022 11:09:50 GMT -5 tractor said:

Good news! My wife found out her loans qualify under the public service forgiveness rules...she only need to make 66 more payments on her 5-year loan! I love to government, they could have just said "no" 😊

But how about under the new 10K across the board forgiveness for government loans?  No public service required.

I qualify for both.  Now it's wait and see if Creighton gets me my form back first or if the government opens up the web site so I can apply for general forgiveness.

It doesn't make a real major dent in my out going expenses for the month.  It's just I am tired of paying on it and want it done.  That and the saved interest.  If I added it up I've probably paid more in interest over my consolidation than I am getting forgiven so not sure how people are howling that this means people aren't "Paying their fair share" for their education.   

[countrygirl2]

Whoops, wrong place.

[Deleted]

I just read an article from Wharton on future plans for student loans and I find it scary. Here's the link but it requires signup. No pay wall.

knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/how-student-loan-forgiveness-will-transform-college-financing/?utm_campaign=KatW2022&utm_medium=email&utm_source=kw_campaign_monitor&utm_term=9-14-2022&utm_content=How_Student_Loan_Forgiveness_Will_Transform_College_Financing

Excerpts:

1. More liberal qualifications for income-based repayment eligibility; repayment limited to 5% of discretionary income instead of 10% and discretionary income is defined more narrowly, lowering repayment amount.

2. No negative amortization with income-based repayment. "The government" will cover the unpaid principal and accrued interest. Uh-huh. We know where "the government" gets its money.

3. Quote from a Wharton professor:

“If people are really rational, and if they really believe that this program would stick around, it should fundamentally transform how college financing is done, because a lot of students would have the incentive to max out loans for paying for college,” said Smetters. “Why work that summer job? Why have your parents or grandparents contribute?”

This concerns me deeply. Colleges will continue to have incentives to accept marginal students who have little chance of success and are likely to drop out after taking a few remedial courses that don't transfer. Interest rates can still be ridiculously high since "the government" is paying most of it. People who mostly want to go to college to avoid adulting for another 4 years (didn't we all know people like that?) no longer have the threat of giant loan payments to deter them. Colleges also have no incentive to keep their costs down.

I am beginning to feel stupid for having put over $100K in my grandchildren's 529 accounts. Let "the government" pay for it, right?

If I were to reform the system I'd decrease interest rates and penalize colleges with high dropout rates.  Right now they have no skin in the game and neither do the lenders.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 14, 2022 7:29:56 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I just read an article from Wharton on future plans for student loans and I find it scary. Here's the link but it requires signup. No pay wall.

knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/how-student-loan-forgiveness-will-transform-college-financing/?utm_campaign=KatW2022&utm_medium=email&utm_source=kw_campaign_monitor&utm_term=9-14-2022&utm_content=How_Student_Loan_Forgiveness_Will_Transform_College_Financing

Excerpts:

1. More liberal qualifications for income-based repayment eligibility; repayment limited to 5% of discretionary income instead of 10% and discretionary income is defined more narrowly, lowering repayment amount.

2. No negative amortization with income-based repayment. "The government" will cover the unpaid principal and accrued interest. Uh-huh. We know where "the government" gets its money.

3. Quote from a Wharton professor:

“If people are really rational, and if they really believe that this program would stick around, it should fundamentally transform how college financing is done, because a lot of students would have the incentive to max out loans for paying for college,” said Smetters. “Why work that summer job? Why have your parents or grandparents contribute?”

This concerns me deeply. Colleges will continue to have incentives to accept marginal students who have little chance of success and are likely to drop out after taking a few remedial courses that don't transfer. Interest rates can still be ridiculously high since "the government" is paying most of it. People who mostly want to go to college to avoid adulting for another 4 years (didn't we all know people like that?) no longer have the threat of giant loan payments to deter them. Colleges also have no incentive to keep their costs down.

I am beginning to feel stupid for having put over $100K in my grandchildren's 529 accounts. Let "the government" pay for it, right?

If I were to reform the system I'd decrease interest rates and penalize colleges with high dropout rates.  Right now they have no skin in the game and neither do the lenders.  

The changes are for federal loans which for undergrad are limited to:

$5500 Freshman year

$6500 Sophomore year

$7500 Junior year and above to a max of 31K total.

Nobody is borrowing 100K for undergrad on Federal loans.

I'm also not sure how this would incentivize colleges to admit more students?  You have to pay up front for your classes and the colleges don't give the loans.  They don't care if you're paying for it with a high interest loan or a government subsidized one or grandma's 529. 

[Tiny]

3. Quote from a Wharton professor:
“If people are really rational, and if they really believe that this program would stick around, it should fundamentally transform how college financing is done, because a lot of students would have the incentive to max out loans for paying for college,” said Smetters. “Why work that summer job? Why have your parents or grandparents contribute?”

With NO loan help - Are there colleges or universities in America where students pay less than - say 5K per year for courses and books?

I'm highly skeptical that "loan forgiveness" is going to magically wipe away 100K in debt for each and every student.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2022 7:51:17 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

The changes are for federal loans which for undergrad are limited to:

$5500 Freshman year
$6500 Sophomore year
$7500 Junior year and above to a max of 31K total.
Nobody is borrowing 100K for undergrad on Federal loans.

I'm also not sure how this would incentivize colleges to admit more students? You have to pay up front for your classes and the colleges don't give the loans. They don't care if you're paying for it with a high interest loan or a government subsidized one or grandma's 529.

Oops. Wharton kinda didn't mention that part.

I agree with your second paragraph and that's one of the issues. I think colleges should be somehow penalized for high dropout rates on students with loans. Right now they don't care.

And, given that the provisions apply only to Federal loans, it doesn't solve the problem of Parent Plus loans and others that don't qualify.

[raeoflyte]

Sept 14, 2022 10:06:39 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Sept 14, 2022 7:51:17 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

The changes are for federal loans which for undergrad are limited to:

$5500 Freshman year
$6500 Sophomore year
$7500 Junior year and above to a max of 31K total.
Nobody is borrowing 100K for undergrad on Federal loans.

I'm also not sure how this would incentivize colleges to admit more students? You have to pay up front for your classes and the colleges don't give the loans. They don't care if you're paying for it with a high interest loan or a government subsidized one or grandma's 529.

Oops. Wharton kinda didn't mention that part.

I agree with your second paragraph and that's one of the issues. I think colleges should be somehow penalized for high dropout rates on students with loans. Right now they don't care.

And, given that the provisions apply only to Federal loans, it doesn't solve the problem of Parent Plus loans and others that don't qualify.

Colleges do care about their graduation rate.

To me the drop out rate is a problem with for profit schools. I can't really see the purpose in for profit schools anymore. I'm sure there's an exception (maybe) but the benefits they used to provide for working adults can be had at almost every accredited university.

[pulmonarymd]

Ivies and highly selective colleges generally have 4 year graduation rates of over 95%. They are not the problem with that issue. It is the lower tier schools that are the problem, as well as the less expensive state schools, because the cost is less if you spread it out. They usually will publish 6 year rates.

[haapai]

Sept 10, 2022 15:34:49 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Sept 10, 2022 12:32:12 GMT -5 haapai said:

Re-amortization is big news.  I've really been pulling for for these debts to be re-amortized or re-cast and this is the first solid news that I have heard that they will be.

Unfortunately, folks in IDR programs might not see much improvement in their options.  This may include the options that they have for exiting an IDR program.  At worst, someone who owed $25,000 and has now had their balance reduced to $5000 may not see their payment reduced by much and the payments that they may face if they leave their IDR program may be any good either.  They could be pretty awful unless there are further announcements. 

I'm on the fence regarding the order in which debts will be forgiven.  On one hand, I like the fact that what has been announced appears to be the most favorable order of forgiveness for the greatest number of persons.  On the other hand, there are always exceptions.  I'm sure that there are plenty of borrowers who would choose to have whatever forgiveness/cancellation applied in a different way than what has been announced. 

so now I'm wondering if those who don't qualify for forgiveness will also get reamoritized?

That would be great for me if it did! Am I petty for wanting a little something something outta the deal?

I honestly believe they will be.  That means if you have been making payments that you did not have to make, your payment should decrease. 

If you haven't been making payments, there should not be much change in your payment but it may wobble by a bit.  Dropping the interest rate to zero in the middle of May 2020 and resuming them on the first day of January 2023 is probably going to result in some folks owing more than a normal month's worth of interest and others owing less interest than normal.  I think that almost everyone who is not in an IDR program will have to have their monthly repayments recalculated in order to fix this issue.  Otherwise, some folks will have an extra payment to make and others will have a final payment that is smaller than the rest, possibly by quite a bit. 

I wish that I could find the Nerdwallet article that Liz linked to a couple of days ago.  It had a link to the relevant government webpage at the bottom of it. 

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2022 14:00:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Ivies and highly selective colleges generally have 4 year graduation rates of over 95%. They are not the problem with that issue. It is the lower tier schools that are the problem, as well as the less expensive state schools, because the cost is less if you spread it out. They usually will publish 6 year rates.

I agree.  They're selective in the first place.  I listened to a podcast interview with the head of a historically black university (sorry, forget which one but it wasn't one of the big names like Morehouse or Howard) and she talked about how hard they work to make sure EVERYONE graduates.  I'd heard that about my alma mater's med school back in the 1970s as well-  once you were in they tried very hard to make sure you didn't flunk out because they rarely had transfers in- so they lost the revenue.  OTOH, a friend who went to U. of Toledo Law school said they had a huge flunk-out rate the first year.  They accepted more than they really wanted and let them fight it out.

You could argue that the less-selective schools are at least giving a chance to some marginal students who need it, but my concern is the large number who drop out with big loans and no increased income potential.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 15, 2022 7:37:20 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Sept 14, 2022 14:00:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Ivies and highly selective colleges generally have 4 year graduation rates of over 95%. They are not the problem with that issue. It is the lower tier schools that are the problem, as well as the less expensive state schools, because the cost is less if you spread it out. They usually will publish 6 year rates.

I agree.  They're selective in the first place.  I listened to a podcast interview with the head of a historically black university (sorry, forget which one but it wasn't one of the big names like Morehouse or Howard) and she talked about how hard they work to make sure EVERYONE graduates.  I'd heard that about my alma mater's med school back in the 1970s as well-  once you were in they tried very hard to make sure you didn't flunk out because they rarely had transfers in- so they lost the revenue.  OTOH, a friend who went to U. of Toledo Law school said they had a huge flunk-out rate the first year.  They accepted more than they really wanted and let them fight it out.

You could argue that the less-selective schools are at least giving a chance to some marginal students who need it, but my concern is the large number who drop out with big loans and no increased income potential.

The question is where do you draw the line. Too restrictive and you prevent some people who would eventually do well from having the opportunity. Too lax and people who have no business being in college in the first place. If we really cared about giving people opportunity, we wouldn't make failing so onerous. We have bankruptcy laws for a reason. You can file bankruptcy multiple times and still be president of the US. Our policies keep people from improving themselves. It is not like my kids need these programs. They will be fine regardless of what we decide. But is that what we really want(or need) as a society?

[Ava]

Sept 13, 2022 13:26:19 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

Sept 12, 2022 17:42:35 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Having one loan totally wiped out doesn't help you?  I guess I'm a little confused too...

My guess, is that Ava will still be paying the same amount each month under her IBR plan for the graduate loans, as she was already.  So it won't really change her monthly payment at all.  It will just be split among less loans.  If it still doesn't cover the interest for the loans, then really her loans would just grow again so does the forgiveness really make a difference. If the forgiveness brings the balance down to a point where the IBR covers interest and some principle then it at least provides a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it doesn't make a difference currently with monthly out lay.           

Bingo.
This doesn't change things for me because IDR doesn't cover the interest.
And my highest interest is on undergraduate loans, which would qualify for the new IDR program where they cap your contributions at 5% of disposable income.
I'm still stuck with the graduate loans with high interest rate and the IDR doesn't cover them.
So this doesn't change things for me. It doesn't help. I'm grateful it will help many people, but I'm not one of them.

[bean29]

Sept 14, 2022 14:00:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Ivies and highly selective colleges generally have 4 year graduation rates of over 95%. They are not the problem with that issue. It is the lower tier schools that are the problem, as well as the less expensive state schools, because the cost is less if you spread it out. They usually will publish 6 year rates.

I know they track the 6 year graduation rate, but I don't know exactly how it is used.  I don't think 31,000 is enough to get students through college without some scholarships or parental assistance.  One of my Brother-in-laws cut his DD off his insurance as soon as she turned 18.  Not every parent is going to assist their kids with paying for college.  

I think it is sad that we no loner govern for the middle because the parties don't work together to come to a solution.  As soon as we come up with a plan and put it in place, the other party is trying to rip it apart.

 

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2022 9:15:26 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I don't think 31,000 is enough to get students through college without some scholarships or parental assistance.  One of my Brother-in-laws cut his DD off his insurance as soon as she turned 18.  Not every parent is going to assist their kids with paying for college.  

Wow. What was she supposed to do if she needed medical attention? I think that's the LAST thing I'd drop for a kid. Just too much at stake. I kept DS on my employer plan and then COBRA till his employer brought him on FT with health insurance.  I just looked at in-state public university tuition and fees and it's about $11,000/year so you're right- and not everyone is within commuting distance of a public university. Still, if you CAN stay at home, another $10K or so over 4 years might be manageable.

I think it is sad that we no longer govern for the middle because the parties don't work together to come to a solution.  As soon as we come up with a plan and put it in place, the other party is trying to rip it apart.

 

Totally agreed on this. I stopped voting "straight ticket" a long time ago because I'm looking for people who can work across the aisle to solve problems that we all agree we have. Sometimes I choose Independents if I think they'll bring fresh ideas and can play nicely with others.  Sadly, we're so polarized that those types rarely get elected.