geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Apr 16, 2022 7:39:42 GMT -5
We have vocational programs with our high school. I am going to say they are decent and certainly give kids a good idea if they want to continue in that field. They do get a certificate if they complete the whole program and some credentials, but in all honesty if a kid wants to succeed in that field they need to continue into a longer (most are 2 years) vocational program after high school. Luckily many of our community colleges offer vocational training as well as the more first 2 years of college classes. My oldest is looking at one of the Culinary programs offered by a community college, it goes all the way up to an associate degree option. The suggested program of studies however is 2 years, but that also includes summer courses so a total of 6 semesters, (right now about 2K a semester in tuition). The 3 credit cooking class have 3 hours of lectures and 5 hours of lab involved. So we are looking at between 30 to 40 hours a week she will need to be on campus. This one is 2 hours away from us, 1 hour away from her grandparents and does not have housing as it is a community college. Right now if she takes this rout (we still have 2 years of high school), the plan would be to just pay it and her live with her grandparents. But I can see if you also have to include living expenses even community college can get expensive if your schedule doesn't leave you a lot of time to work and loans get to be an attractive option.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2022 8:13:17 GMT -5
In our state the vocational schools are normally county run so less dependent on only one town. The vocational schools are included in the county wide ‘magnet’ schools. Usually for at least the first 2 years of HS kids go to local HS I’m morning then to vocational school in afternoon. Or if considered a magnet school then kids go full time. They are well respected and supported When I was in HS, the local public HS had a cosmetology program- your senior year was pretty much one course required by the state (History or English, I forget) and the rest was cosmetology classes. Students and teachers could get haircuts, etc. done by students at a low cost. I always wondered how many kids took that because it sounded more fun than the academic subjects- but unlike plumbing, carpentry or auto repair it was less likely to get you into a well-paying job with benefits. This discussion has reminded me of two former grade school classmates. Neither was an academic standout. One, even in 5th grade, was fascinated by electricity and was a walking encyclopedia on the subject. We moved out of the area but I hope he became an electrician- he certainly had the gift. I caught up with the other guy at a 50-year reunion. He owned his own plumbing firm and was proud of the fact that he provided health insurance for his employees even though it mean they lost some jobs because their bids weren't competitive. I wonder if, in this day and age, they would have been shoehorned into a few years of community college just to make the graduation stats look good.
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susana1954
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Post by susana1954 on Apr 16, 2022 8:46:33 GMT -5
In the district where I retired, trades are a big deal. They have their own building, and students come over in morning or afternoon shifts from the other high school. It is a very pleasant place to substitute. However, trades mean many things. In this case, they are training kids in culinary arts, fire science (particularly EMT), nursing assistant, computer technology (not programming), etc. There is a construction and a welding section, but no plumbing, electrician, automotive, etc. These are mostly what I would consider "upscale" trades if you think about it.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 18, 2022 15:28:06 GMT -5
We had a great culinary program. Town budget failed. Cuts needed to be made. It got axed. All due to the local anti-tax group. Funny thing is that it was generally the people whose kids would have benefited the most from these type of programs. The ratings may have played a part. But I would argue that local factors played a much larger role. The whole world complains about their property taxes. The major driver of those rates is the school budget I wonder how the per-pupil spending in our respective towns compare? My state has one of the lowest per-pupil spending in the country. My 13-year-old is going to a technology charter school, were each student is given an iPad, and he’ll graduate with a certification in web development and a couple years of college credit if he plays his cards right. My autistic 11-year-old has had years of tiny class sizes and a gaggle of people with masters degrees helping him. They gave him a Chromebook this year, since Some days are still online. And in the high schools, they are vocational programs for everything under the sun, along with dual enrollment that allows more academically inclined students to get a couple years of college credit under their belts. Some kids graduate high school with their college degrees. Sometimes it is truly a budget issue. But sometimes it’s just a question of priorities, and whether the administration is in the business of education or lining their pockets. I saw a lot of that in St. Louis. The fact that every town had its own school district added a lot of unnecessary overhead, and the administrators in those poor school district were absolute crooks.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Apr 18, 2022 15:43:24 GMT -5
We had a great culinary program. Town budget failed. Cuts needed to be made. It got axed. All due to the local anti-tax group. Funny thing is that it was generally the people whose kids would have benefited the most from these type of programs. The ratings may have played a part. But I would argue that local factors played a much larger role. The whole world complains about their property taxes. The major driver of those rates is the school budget I wonder how the per-pupil spending in our respective towns compare? My state has one of the lowest per-pupil spending in the country. My 13-year-old is going to a technology charter school, were each student is given an iPad, and he’ll graduate with a certification in web development and a couple years of college credit if he plays his cards right. My autistic 11-year-old has had years of tiny class sizes and a gaggle of people with masters degrees helping him. They gave him a Chromebook this year, since Some days are still online. And in the high schools, they are vocational programs for everything under the sun, along with dual enrollment that allows more academically inclined students to get a couple years of college credit under their belts. Some kids graduate high school with their college degrees. Sometimes it is truly a budget issue. But sometimes it’s just a question of priorities, and whether the administration is in the business of education or lining their pockets. I saw a lot of that in St. Louis. The fact that every town had its own school district added a lot of unnecessary overhead, and the administrators in those poor school district were absolute crooks. Nice try. Our per pupil spending is lower than comparable schools in the state/region. Our town budget is also lean. Tax rates are lower than many comparable towns. It all is the fault of the local anti-tax group, who never saw a tax increase they didn't hate. They went all the way to defeating the proposal for a new HS, even though ours was in danger of losing accreditation due to the buildings condition. They even campaigned against it and defeated the referendum. Passed the second go round due to the threat. Will cost us more in the long run due to the loss of state money and inflation. They wanted a cheaper solution that did not address all the buildings problems. Of course they backed the republicans HS is ranked as one of the best in the state. If your kids are at the top of the class or need special ed, it is fantastic. For the average student, they can get lost. Not my problem anymore.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 18, 2022 19:23:08 GMT -5
I wonder how the per-pupil spending in our respective towns compare? My state has one of the lowest per-pupil spending in the country. My 13-year-old is going to a technology charter school, were each student is given an iPad, and he’ll graduate with a certification in web development and a couple years of college credit if he plays his cards right. My autistic 11-year-old has had years of tiny class sizes and a gaggle of people with masters degrees helping him. They gave him a Chromebook this year, since Some days are still online. And in the high schools, they are vocational programs for everything under the sun, along with dual enrollment that allows more academically inclined students to get a couple years of college credit under their belts. Some kids graduate high school with their college degrees. Sometimes it is truly a budget issue. But sometimes it’s just a question of priorities, and whether the administration is in the business of education or lining their pockets. I saw a lot of that in St. Louis. The fact that every town had its own school district added a lot of unnecessary overhead, and the administrators in those poor school district were absolute crooks. Nice try. Our per pupil spending is lower than comparable schools in the state/region. Our town budget is also lean. Tax rates are lower than many comparable towns. It all is the fault of the local anti-tax group, who never saw a tax increase they didn't hate. They went all the way to defeating the proposal for a new HS, even though ours was in danger of losing accreditation due to the buildings condition. They even campaigned against it and defeated the referendum. Passed the second go round due to the threat. Will cost us more in the long run due to the loss of state money and inflation. They wanted a cheaper solution that did not address all the buildings problems. Of course they backed the republicans HS is ranked as one of the best in the state. If your kids are at the top of the class or need special ed, it is fantastic. For the average student, they can get lost. Not my problem anymore. Considering the fact that the average per-pupil spending in New York is more than three times what it is in Utah, It’s pretty unlikely that your town’s school district isn’t spending more than mine. And depending on the size of your town, the fact that it said that it has its own school district instead of pooling resources with neighboring towns means that it’s spending an awful lot of money on duplicate overhead and is a sign of low trust environment. It was the same deal in St. Louis. Nearly every town had its own school district. What they ended up with was a lot of districts that spent that all spent a lot more than mine, but were so bad that they lost their accreditation.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Apr 18, 2022 19:56:44 GMT -5
Nice try. Our per pupil spending is lower than comparable schools in the state/region. Our town budget is also lean. Tax rates are lower than many comparable towns. It all is the fault of the local anti-tax group, who never saw a tax increase they didn't hate. They went all the way to defeating the proposal for a new HS, even though ours was in danger of losing accreditation due to the buildings condition. They even campaigned against it and defeated the referendum. Passed the second go round due to the threat. Will cost us more in the long run due to the loss of state money and inflation. They wanted a cheaper solution that did not address all the buildings problems. Of course they backed the republicans HS is ranked as one of the best in the state. If your kids are at the top of the class or need special ed, it is fantastic. For the average student, they can get lost. Not my problem anymore. Considering the fact that the average per-pupil spending in New York is more than three times what it is in Utah, It’s pretty unlikely that your town’s school district isn’t spending more than mine. And depending on the size of your town, the fact that it said that it has its own school district instead of pooling resources with neighboring towns means that it’s spending an awful lot of money on duplicate overhead and is a sign of low trust environment. It was the same deal in St. Louis. Nearly every town had its own school district. What they ended up with was a lot of districts that spent that all spent a lot more than mine, but were so bad that they lost their accreditation. I am not in NY. Nice dissembling. Cost of living here is higher than where you live, so unless you normalize for that, actual dollars are irrelevant. We actually pat teachers well here, since salaries are a major part of the school budget, that is a big deal. Our spending is below the state average. You are unwilling to consider any viewpoint other than government and taxes are the problem. I happen to believe that we get good value for our money, and could spend a little more to benefit all the students. We have a strings program that states in second grade. Wonderful music program that produces excellent musicians. Excellent arts program. Nothing to say about the waste that the anti-tax people caused?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 19, 2022 8:00:44 GMT -5
We started getting emails about dual enrollment in high-school at the beginning of 6th grade. We have IB and AP classes too, but the dual enrollment seems like the best option to me. Ds and I will look at it more closely next year. I'm not expecting him to get a college degree while still in high-school, but if he can knock out 1 or 2 years of college credit for free while still at home I'll be thrilled.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Apr 19, 2022 9:47:50 GMT -5
DN2 started college with over 1 years worth of credits. He also took extra credits each semester and finished in 2 1/2 years. He did go on for his MBA but he worked about 3 years and saved to pay for it before he went back. He also got his CPA and some kind of financial planner certificate.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 19, 2022 9:55:28 GMT -5
We started getting emails about dual enrollment in high-school at the beginning of 6th grade. We have IB and AP classes too, but the dual enrollment seems like the best option to me. Ds and I will look at it more closely next year. I'm not expecting him to get a college degree while still in high-school, but if he can knock out 1 or 2 years of college credit for free while still at home I'll be thrilled. You can dual enroll here at IWCC. You can either finish an associates or just accumulate the two years of credit to transfer. What is nice is unlike when I was doing it now IWCC has reciprocity agreements with all Iowa universities and colleges and University of Nebraska. So Gwen can enter in as a junior at any in state college. We absolutely expect her to take advantage it's a no brainer.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Apr 19, 2022 12:13:27 GMT -5
That's one thing I hate about the private school my kids attend is it's not very supporting of dual enrollment. When oldest was there you had to take ALL your high school required courses at the high school. You could still take college classes for free, but it had to be on your own time. Well, he was already taking 7 HS classes and was in a lot of extracurriculars...that wasn't going to work. They've loosened up some recently, but it's still difficult with how the classes are scheduled in that it's hard to get time slots to work. Maybe with all the online options now due to covid it will be easier. We'll see. Have a few years yet before I have to worry about it with Carrot.
Going into engineering, my son couldn't have finished in less than 4 years anyhow, maybe it could have knocked a semester off...but it would have been nice to have a lighter load every semester too. That's why he's taking a couple gen ed classes this summer.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2022 7:35:56 GMT -5
HS is ranked as one of the best in the state. If your kids are at the top of the class or need special ed, it is fantastic. For the average student, they can get lost. Not my problem anymore. That was my son's HS in Bergen County, NJ. Unfortunately, he was in the middle and was falling through the cracks during middle school. All the resources were focused on the top 10% and the kids who needed special attention for one reason or another. I ended up sending him to NY Military Academy for HS instead. Thank heaven I could. In the "waste" department: Yes, this was a state where every teeny, tiny town had its own school district. When they wanted to borrow $17 million to refurbish the two high schools (in 2002- and $1 million alone was for landscaping) one woman told me, "they need that money- why, they can't keep toilet paper in the bathrooms". So- I need to vote for $17 million more and give it to people who can't manage the TP supply? I went to an Open House for the HS DS would attend. They showed me the fancy "language lab" with all kinds of electronic equipment. A student told me they didn't use it because their teacher didn't know how to operate the equipment. And then they found out that the district's business manager had embezzled over $1 million over the past few years. The CPA firm that had given the district rave reviews in its audits carried the minimum limits required for errors and omissions- something like $5,000. They found out only when the FBI showed up and confiscated teh computers. Don't get me started on public schools. Oops, you already did.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 20, 2022 11:26:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2022 6:08:26 GMT -5
I'd listened to a podcast on the student loans that were to be cancelled by X years of public service and those people were put through the wringer- given all kinds of excuses, requests for more information, told they hadn't done something they were supposed to do 10 years ago, etc. My understanding is that the loan forgiveness is for this group. I'm all for it if that's the case.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Apr 25, 2022 22:02:54 GMT -5
My student loans have been forgiven. I am incredibly grateful. Since 2005, I have been working full time in low income, rural schools as a teacher or as a principal. I had ~$45K in student loans, which covered three years of me not working but paying for full time day care for DD#2 and part time for DD#1 and covered my Master's Degree tuition. I had enough in scholarships and grants to cover the tuition of my bachelor's degree. I did get a $5,000 reduction in the loans after my first five years of teaching.
Over the course of January 2006 - March 2020, I paid over $33,108.29, yet I still owed ~$39,000. So, the reality is, I really did pay them back; I just didn't have to pay interest. I am still grateful for an interest-free loan.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 26, 2022 11:39:41 GMT -5
My student loans have been forgiven. I am incredibly grateful. Since 2005, I have been working full time in low income, rural schools as a teacher or as a principal. I had ~$45K in student loans, which covered three years of me not working but paying for full time day care for DD#2 and part time for DD#1 and covered my Master's Degree tuition. I had enough in scholarships and grants to cover the tuition of my bachelor's degree. I did get a $5,000 reduction in the loans after my first five years of teaching.
Over the course of January 2006 - March 2020, I paid over $33,108.29, yet I still owed ~$39,000. So, the reality is, I really did pay them back; I just didn't have to pay interest. I am still grateful for an interest-free loan. That is the racket that really irks me when friends post memes to the tone of "You took out the loans, you should pay them back because *I* did". Especially when it's fellow vets who LITERALLY have no skin in the game. They're just being petty.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Apr 26, 2022 14:39:17 GMT -5
My student loans have been forgiven. I am incredibly grateful. Since 2005, I have been working full time in low income, rural schools as a teacher or as a principal. I had ~$45K in student loans, which covered three years of me not working but paying for full time day care for DD#2 and part time for DD#1 and covered my Master's Degree tuition. I had enough in scholarships and grants to cover the tuition of my bachelor's degree. I did get a $5,000 reduction in the loans after my first five years of teaching.
Over the course of January 2006 - March 2020, I paid over $33,108.29, yet I still owed ~$39,000. So, the reality is, I really did pay them back; I just didn't have to pay interest. I am still grateful for an interest-free loan. You've posted before about your loan forgiveness but I have forgotten the details. Can you refresh me? It sounds like you are part of the group that just got relief and you sound very confident that you have gotten it. Have you gotten confirmation of the forgiveness? Of course you do not have to give details if you do not want to.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Apr 27, 2022 11:31:31 GMT -5
My student loans have been forgiven. I am incredibly grateful. Since 2005, I have been working full time in low income, rural schools as a teacher or as a principal. I had ~$45K in student loans, which covered three years of me not working but paying for full time day care for DD#2 and part time for DD#1 and covered my Master's Degree tuition. I had enough in scholarships and grants to cover the tuition of my bachelor's degree. I did get a $5,000 reduction in the loans after my first five years of teaching.
Over the course of January 2006 - March 2020, I paid over $33,108.29, yet I still owed ~$39,000. So, the reality is, I really did pay them back; I just didn't have to pay interest. I am still grateful for an interest-free loan. You've posted before about your loan forgiveness but I have forgotten the details. Can you refresh me? It sounds like you are part of the group that just got relief and you sound very confident that you have gotten it. Have you gotten confirmation of the forgiveness? Of course you do not have to give details if you do not want to.
I’m confused by your request. What proof is it that you want from me? I’m not going to show my accounts here.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Apr 27, 2022 11:35:58 GMT -5
Chloe, isn't this one of the programs that qualified for forgiveness if you taught a certain number of years in a rural or low income school.
I have a cousin who did that. He worked in inner city schools to get his forgiveness.
Way back when I was still preparing tax returns, I prepared a return for a woman who had worked as a nurse on an Indian reservation.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Apr 27, 2022 11:38:23 GMT -5
Since November, I've been working on the Temporary PSLF for both myself and my husband. It's been a tedious, paperwork-filled process. It seems to be closer, but it's not finished yet. One delay is that the HR person wrote slightly imperfect numerals on my husband's form regarding the dates of employment. The HR person had to spend 60 minutes on hold the other day to verify his form.
Anyhoo, I am still not optimistic about forgiveness, but I'm going to see the process through. Is this the information you wanted?
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 27, 2022 14:07:43 GMT -5
GOP lawmakers want to block Biden from canceling student debt and extending the payment pause 'in perpetuity'"As Americans continue to return to the workforce more than two years since the pandemic began, it is time for borrowers to resume repayment of student debt obligations," Thune said in a statement. "Taxpayers and working families should not be responsible for continuing to bear the costs associated with this suspension of repayment. This common-sense legislation would protect taxpayers and prevent President Biden from suspending federal student loan repayments in perpetuity."Bolding is mine because I wonder if this person knows that many of "taxpayers and working families" are the ones saddled with a poop-ton of SL debt? I mean, a quick online search shows that more than 40 MILLION people have student loans with an average of nearly $40,000. That is not an insignificant number of people. This webpage shows how the numbers have ballooned over the past two decades: Average Student Loan Debt in America: Facts & Figures
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Apr 27, 2022 16:33:34 GMT -5
Wish Biden’s administration would significantly decrease or eliminate interest on the loans kids are right now still taking out. Of course do the same for other loans What a fiasco these loans are
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Apr 27, 2022 18:08:32 GMT -5
Interest rates are set by congress
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Apr 27, 2022 19:15:43 GMT -5
Interest rates are set by congress Well congress really screwed up
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Apr 27, 2022 20:20:25 GMT -5
It was set by the Republican congress under Obama at 6.8%. Doubled the rate from 3.4%. Back when t bills were 2-3%
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 27, 2022 21:39:31 GMT -5
I don't think they even really need to "forgive all student loans" to make a big splash here. I don't think they really need to forgive any money that they gave to anyone.
Credit back to people all the fees and interest that has been paid/accrued. Set an interest rate that is in the spirit of "we are supporting education of the country" and not "we are making billions off the student loan industry" and call it a day.
I'd be super happy with that.
They could do more, sure, but I think this would be a minimum to start with in trying not to screw this up in terms of a pr nightmare for them.
Peeps be getting cranky on them about now....
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Apr 28, 2022 8:17:10 GMT -5
Out of curiosity I looked up tuition and fees to the state university, which is the one I attended. It's a good state school, small, but nobody who lives outside this state has heard of it.
Tuition and fees for 2022-2023 are $5,090 per semester in-state students. So that means you'll end up with just above 40k in loans if you graduated in 4 years and commuted from home. Of course, you'll probably get a small grant here and there, and you could work part-time to offset some costs like gas, food, books, etc.
If you were living at the university, it would add a meal plan and boarding The cheapest options were $1,178 food plan and $3,700 shared room per semester, if you were a state student. Now your cost for the 4 years would probably be over 80k.
If you went to cc the first two years it would cost you $2,081 per semester. Then you would transfer to the university while living at home. Total cost would be around 34k assuming you'll be at the state university an extra semester, because not all credits transfer.
So even being extra careful you'll end up with 34k in loans. You could work part-time to pay some of it as you go, but that assumes that you have a family that supports you by giving you free room and board. Not everyone has that.
Your cost would increase if you pursued any post graduate education.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Apr 28, 2022 8:21:22 GMT -5
I don't think they even really need to "forgive all student loans" to make a big splash here. I don't think they really need to forgive any money that they gave to anyone. Credit back to people all the fees and interest that has been paid/accrued. Set an interest rate that is in the spirit of "we are supporting education of the country" and not "we are making billions off the student loan industry" and call it a day. I'd be super happy with that. They could do more, sure, but I think this would be a minimum to start with in trying not to screw this up in terms of a pr nightmare for them. Peeps be getting cranky on them about now....Everyone is getting cranky. They are not handling this issue well. Either because they don't know what to do, or whatever the reason may be. Those who don't want student cancellation to happen are getting angry as the Dems continue to broach the topic of maybe forgiving some or all of the debt. I'm angry because I think they are playing a political game with something so serious and important. I feel like a pawn in their political game, and I don't appreciate it. You don't play games when the future and well being of millions of people hang in the balance. And what about current and future students? Are they going to have to go through the same hell we're going through? I don't think they have an answer for that.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Apr 28, 2022 10:04:51 GMT -5
I mean, a quick online search shows that more than 40 MILLION people have student loans with an average of nearly $40,000. That is not an insignificant number of people. Which makes me wonder why any Republican voter with student loans OR who has a family member or friend or just knows someone who's struggling with a student loan - wouldn't be pressuring their representatives for some relief. Surely Republican voters care about themselves and their family and friends and would want to be treated fairly (high interest rates on SLs is NOT fairness to anyone.) Or do they see it as making a "sacrifice" in order to achieve some bigger thing they believe their Republican politicians are working towards? I'm not particularly "it's all about me" - but I'm also not fond of being treated like a doormat. It sure seems like Republican voters struggling with student loans OR who has a family member or friend or just knows someone who's struggling with a student loan are being treated as doormats by their own politicians.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 28, 2022 11:36:14 GMT -5
Today's news: Education department cancels student loan debt en masse for former beauty school students, an unusual step
The Education Department stripped the Marinello Schools of Beauty, now a closed for-profit college, of federal funding back in 2016 due to "pervasive and widespread misconduct." The agency announced on Thursday that it would cancel the debt via its borrower defense program of students who attended the school from 2009 through its 2016 closure. The forgiveness initiative erases the debt of students who can prove they were defrauded by their schools. Normally in similar cases, borrowers apply individually for forgiveness, but the Education Department said it took the unusual step of erasing the debt in a group claim, the first time it has done so since 2017. That will mean $238 million in debt relief for 28,000 borrowers, including some who hadn't yet applied for loan cancellation.Bolding is mine.
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