Is it better to be MAGA?

[Value Buy]

Mar 14, 2022 22:36:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 14, 2022 21:52:25 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

What has the actual President of the USA done to keep Putin from invading?
He has a history of being on the wrong side of amost every major international decision the US has made.
And he certainly did nothing to stop Putin.
How many people have to be killed?
How many people have to lose everything and flee to neighboring countries?
Today the press Secretary stated the WH is thinking of making a trip to Europe in a couple of weeks to meet with allies. Kind of late to do that.......
I guess after Putin kills ten thousand more civilians and conquers Ukraine, it wil be ok to go to Europe and puff his chest out and say how bad Putin is.

He denied there was inflation

Interesting list. I am curious what he could have done. Put American boots on the ground might have stopped it. Is that something you would have supported? Something else? What would an earlier personal trip have accomplished?

I would have suggested a face to face meeting (instead of telling Americans Putin will invade Ukraine (not accomplishing anything pertaining to Putin and Ukraine) between the two and look him in the eye, and tell him the consequense would not make it worth it. He told the American public it would happen, but failed to at least publicly tell the world it would not be allowed to happen.

Now, like dj basically feels, maybe the US should not be the world's police force any longer, and if that is what Biden believes also, announce it to the world instead of pretending we still are and let individual European countries deal with it outside of the framework of Nato. Yes, I realize that is not in the cards, but if Biden continues on his present course the outcome is the same anyway. Thoughts and prayers wil not get it done.

[billisonboard]

Mar 15, 2022 8:29:21 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Mar 14, 2022 22:36:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Interesting list. I am curious what he could have done. Put American boots on the ground might have stopped it. Is that something you would have supported? Something else? What would an earlier personal trip have accomplished?

I would have suggested a face to face meeting (instead of telling Americans Putin will invade Ukraine (not accomplishing anything pertaining to Putin and Ukraine) between the two and look him in the eye, and tell him the consequense would not make it worth it. He told the American public it would happen, but failed to at least publicly tell the world it would not be allowed to happen.

Now, like dj basically feels, maybe the US should not be the world's police force any longer, and if that is what Biden believes also, announce it to the world instead of pretending we still are and let individual European countries deal with it outside of the framework of Nato. Yes, I realize that is not in the cards, but if Biden continues on his present course the outcome is the same anyway. Thoughts and prayers wil not get it done.

You have a lot more faith in the power of face to face meetings than I do. Biden did tell the world it would not happen without consequences. You are back to your absolute of "not be allowed". Other than saying it in person, you got anything Biden should have used to back it up?

[pulmonarymd]

Exactly. Putin would have been a scared child and not invaded!

What should we have done once Putin ignored us. As every parent knows, consequences for misbehavior are a must if a child misbehaves. What should ahve been those consequences, and what different strategy should Biden pursue.

[Opti]

Mar 15, 2022 8:29:21 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Mar 14, 2022 22:36:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Interesting list. I am curious what he could have done. Put American boots on the ground might have stopped it. Is that something you would have supported? Something else? What would an earlier personal trip have accomplished?

I would have suggested a face to face meeting (instead of telling Americans Putin will invade Ukraine (not accomplishing anything pertaining to Putin and Ukraine) between the two and look him in the eye, and tell him the consequense would not make it worth it. He told the American public it would happen, but failed to at least publicly tell the world it would not be allowed to happen.

Now, like dj basically feels, maybe the US should not be the world's police force any longer, and if that is what Biden believes also, announce it to the world instead of pretending we still are and let individual European countries deal with it outside of the framework of Nato. Yes, I realize that is not in the cards, but if Biden continues on his present course the outcome is the same anyway. Thoughts and prayers wil not get it done.

Trump announced he did not want to be the world's police force and that was part of the reasoning behind closing foreign bases and getting NATO members to pony up more $$. I don't think the world needed a formal announcement especially since we are not in an agreement to protect Ukraine anyway. That is one of the differences of choosing to be a NATO country and choosing not to be. This is rudimentary foreign politics. 

Putin has chosen to invade a non NATO country in hopes of putting back his glorious USSR. It amazes me the info you must read to make you ignore the obvious. Not a single country has thrown themselves directly in the fray. Not one. Biden isn't NATO, and NATO is clear on where the line is. Its sad that whatever news sources you use obscure or ignore those very basic foreign policy points.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 15, 2022 9:10:24 GMT -5 Opti said:

Mar 15, 2022 8:29:21 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I would have suggested a face to face meeting (instead of telling Americans Putin will invade Ukraine (not accomplishing anything pertaining to Putin and Ukraine) between the two and look him in the eye, and tell him the consequense would not make it worth it. He told the American public it would happen, but failed to at least publicly tell the world it would not be allowed to happen.

Now, like dj basically feels, maybe the US should not be the world's police force any longer, and if that is what Biden believes also, announce it to the world instead of pretending we still are and let individual European countries deal with it outside of the framework of Nato. Yes, I realize that is not in the cards, but if Biden continues on his present course the outcome is the same anyway. Thoughts and prayers wil not get it done.

Trump announced he did not want to be the world's police force and that was part of the reasoning behind closing foreign bases and getting NATO members to pony up more $$. I don't think the world needed a formal announcement especially since we are not in an agreement to protect Ukraine anyway. That is one of the differences of choosing to be a NATO country and choosing not to be. This is rudimentary foreign politics. 

Putin has chosen to invade a non NATO country in hopes of putting back his glorious USSR. It amazes me the info you must read to make you ignore the obvious. Not a single country has thrown themselves directly in the fray. Not one. Biden isn't NATO, and NATO is clear on where the line is. Its sad that whatever news sources you use obscure or ignore those very basic foreign policy points.

News source: Tucker Carlson and NewsMax.

[seriousthistime]

Mar 14, 2022 21:44:46 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Mar 14, 2022 14:22:14 GMT -5 Opti said:

Most of the pundits agree that Trump was doing Putin's work for him. By dissing NATO and making it weaker, Putin felt no need to act. That is not a plus.

most of the pundits.......they are mostly Democratic Party oriented and did the dirty work for the party.
Trump made NATO stronger by demanding countries pay their share of the cost rather than leaving it to the USA.
It was the wake up call Europe needed.

It would be quite a stretch to call John Bolton a Democratic Party oriented pundit.

"I think one of the reasons that Putin did not move during Trump's term in office was he saw the president's hostility of NATO. It was widely reported in American media," Bolton said during an interview with SiriusXM's Julie Mason. "And to Putin's mind, it's a binary proposition: a weaker NATO is a stronger Russia."

Bolton went on, "Putin saw Trump doing a lot of his work for him, and thought, maybe in a second term, Trump would make good on his desire to get out of NATO, and then it would just ease Putin's path just that much more."

www.businessinsider.com/john-bolton-putin-saw-trump-doing-a-lot-of-his-work-for-him-2022-3

[djAdvocate]

Mar 15, 2022 17:12:23 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Mar 14, 2022 21:44:46 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

most of the pundits.......they are mostly Democratic Party oriented and did the dirty work for the party.
Trump made NATO stronger by demanding countries pay their share of the cost rather than leaving it to the USA.
It was the wake up call Europe needed.

It would be quite a stretch to call John Bolton a Democratic Party oriented pundit.

"I think one of the reasons that Putin did not move during Trump's term in office was he saw the president's hostility of NATO. It was widely reported in American media," Bolton said during an interview with SiriusXM's Julie Mason. "And to Putin's mind, it's a binary proposition: a weaker NATO is a stronger Russia."

Bolton went on, "Putin saw Trump doing a lot of his work for him, and thought, maybe in a second term, Trump would make good on his desire to get out of NATO, and then it would just ease Putin's path just that much more."

www.businessinsider.com/john-bolton-putin-saw-trump-doing-a-lot-of-his-work-for-him-2022-3

i pointed this out on another board:

this is the first time that John Bolton, me, and Chris Hayes have agreed on ANYTHING.
and it will probably be the last.  but i think it settles the argument about how "real" this is:

i am taking it as fact.  everyone else should, too.

[happyhoix]

Mar 16, 2022 15:40:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 15, 2022 17:12:23 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

It would be quite a stretch to call John Bolton a Democratic Party oriented pundit.

"I think one of the reasons that Putin did not move during Trump's term in office was he saw the president's hostility of NATO. It was widely reported in American media," Bolton said during an interview with SiriusXM's Julie Mason. "And to Putin's mind, it's a binary proposition: a weaker NATO is a stronger Russia."

Bolton went on, "Putin saw Trump doing a lot of his work for him, and thought, maybe in a second term, Trump would make good on his desire to get out of NATO, and then it would just ease Putin's path just that much more."

www.businessinsider.com/john-bolton-putin-saw-trump-doing-a-lot-of-his-work-for-him-2022-3

i pointed this out on another board:

this is the first time that John Bolton, me, and Chris Hayes have agreed on ANYTHING.
and it will probably be the last.  but i think it settles the argument about how "real" this is:

i am taking it as fact.  everyone else should, too.

Trump always wanted a Trump tower Moscow. I don’t think Trump would have ever gone against Putin, despite what the MAGA folks think. Trump only does what benefits Trump. Helping the Ukrainian wouldn’t have gained him a thing.