what is going to be the mistake?

[Rukh O'Rorke]

so reading more about what is happening in Ukraine, and it's really kind of incredible, unbeleivable, that this kind of unprovoked invasion is happening in 2022. It is like reading from a novel, and you are asking how on earth could this be happening.

what is the mistake that could bring on WWIII? I feel like it is hanging in the air, ready to drop. a false move here, and maybe another one there, and we are going down that path.

but which mistake? and by whom? how to avoid? or is it inevitable already?

[Opti]

I'm affirming no World War III. Why ask for something you do not want?

[Tiny]

What kind of war for WWIII -

Option 1:   the kind where there's two sides - a "us" and a "them"  and countries choose which side they will fight on? 

Option 2:  just a general outbreak of "military" actions as countries take back what they feel is theirs (China and taiwan - and I'm guessing the Middle East - what a great time to make a military move or take over what you think is yours - while all the other countries are pre-occupied with other "wars" and "threats".    I'm guessing  there are some African countries where conflict might increase.)  ? 

Maybe North Korea would think it's a good time to hurl something hurtful at South Korea (or Japan)  - just because they could get away with it....  

Maybe Mexico will invade Texas - in a bid to reclaim it.... 

Option 3:  something else?? 

 
Option 1:  seems like it would be a "long path" - it will take months or a year or more for enough countries to figure out (or make it) a "us versus them" thing...  

Option 2:  seems more likely - and if after an initial "take over" phase  and if there isn't a "We will take over the world!" thing going on...  we're done for a while.  

Are there any countries other than possibly  North Korea with Government rhetoric that deems their country is meant to rule the world??     I thought we as a planet were over "colonialism/imperialism" and "world domination". 


And just to be clear - I see Russia as having started a War with Ukraine.     It's a war (I keep hearing people say it's not a war... and I'm like 'what? how do you figure that? " and I don't get an answer. )_ 

[Tiny]

Has Russia asked it's citizens to support the "war effort"  by using less/consuming less or gladly bearing the burden of what inconveniences every day people are experiencing because of the "war"??  or is it business as usual all over Russia? 

America participated in quite a few wars (one for 20 years) and few people in everyday life gave it a second thought... 

[happyhoix]

Mar 8, 2022 19:54:16 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

so reading more about what is happening in Ukraine, and it's really kind of incredible, unbeleivable, that this kind of unprovoked invasion is happening in 2022. It is like reading from a novel, and you are asking how on earth could this be happening.

what is the mistake that could bring on WWIII? I feel like it is hanging in the air, ready to drop. a false move here, and maybe another one there, and we are going down that path.

but which mistake? and by whom? how to avoid? or is it inevitable already?

The scary thing is it could be as small as a group of soldiers from a NATO providing humanitarian aid getting lost and wandering into a Russia controlled area.

We have to hope that even if Putin calls for a nuclear attack there are layers of more practical Russians would ensure that doesn’t happen.

We have to figure out a way to get Putin out of the corner so he doesn’t feel the need to resort to nukes. It’s scary.

[billisonboard]

Mar 9, 2022 6:14:31 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 8, 2022 19:54:16 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

so reading more about what is happening in Ukraine, and it's really kind of incredible, unbeleivable, that this kind of unprovoked invasion is happening in 2022. It is like reading from a novel, and you are asking how on earth could this be happening.

what is the mistake that could bring on WWIII? I feel like it is hanging in the air, ready to drop. a false move here, and maybe another one there, and we are going down that path.

but which mistake? and by whom? how to avoid? or is it inevitable already?

The scary thing is it could be as small as a group of soldiers from a NATO providing humanitarian aid getting lost and wandering into a Russia controlled area.

We have to hope that even if Putin calls for a nuclear attack there are layers of more practical Russians would ensure that doesn’t happen.

We have to figure out a way to get Putin out of the corner so he doesn’t feel the need to resort to nukes. It’s scary.

It would be a huge mistake to use NATO troops for a humanitarian mission that has them "wandering".

[happyhoix]

Mar 9, 2022 9:53:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 9, 2022 6:14:31 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

The scary thing is it could be as small as a group of soldiers from a NATO providing humanitarian aid getting lost and wandering into a Russia controlled area.

We have to hope that even if Putin calls for a nuclear attack there are layers of more practical Russians would ensure that doesn’t happen.

We have to figure out a way to get Putin out of the corner so he doesn’t feel the need to resort to nukes. It’s scary.

It would be a huge mistake to use NATO troops for a humanitarian mission that has them "wandering".

Yes, Bills, you are 100% correct, thank you so much for pointing that out.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 8, 2022 19:54:16 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

so reading more about what is happening in Ukraine, and it's really kind of incredible, unbeleivable, that this kind of unprovoked invasion is happening in 2022. 

did you feel the same way about the unprovoked invasion that happened in 2003?

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 9, 2022 15:51:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 8, 2022 19:54:16 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

so reading more about what is happening in Ukraine, and it's really kind of incredible, unbeleivable, that this kind of unprovoked invasion is happening in 2022. 

did you feel the same way about the unprovoked invasion that happened in 2003?

It was very concerning, but it didn't feel like this does now - like everything is teetering on the brink.

[Tiny]

Mar 9, 2022 17:24:43 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Mar 9, 2022 15:51:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

did you feel the same way about the unprovoked invasion that happened in 2003?

It was very concerning, but it didn't feel like this does now - like everything is teetering on the brink.

Is the media coverage what's giving it that teetering on the brink feeling?  

When China clamped down on HongKong (prePandemic) that had a teetering on the brink feeling to me... I was consuming a lot of news coverage and it was distressing.   

On the other hand... 
Every year in April and May  North Korea does it's sabre rattling and usually does some military thing that "pokes" at South Korea (and the US).   One year I had a relative living/working in South Korea and when the "sabre rattling" started and made the nightly news (in passing)  I had some family members going off the deep end and terribly afraid their loved one was in  great danger...  and I was like - well, probably not - NK does that every year at this time...  I think the relative there will be fine. 

I am not dismissing that Russia is the bad guy and the Ukraine and it's citizens are at war...they are... just that in the Big Picture - are we really "teetering on the brink"?     

I'm wondering what "timeline" Russia has for the conflict...   I'm guessing Russia figures this will take a couple of months... and it will be done.    I'm guessing any and all countries who might fear invasion by Russia will be doing the diplomatic thing to put off any invasion as long as possible - AND beefing up their own armies and rallying their own allies.   


What happens if Russia backs down - if Ukraine wins?    The Ukraine is going to need aid/money to rebuild AND to build a bigger better army/military.   Where does the money come from for that?   

trump didn't want to give promised aid to the Ukraine (ok, he was being a dick because Ukraine wouldn't meddle in our politics/election as trump had hoped - so "nenner neenner neener - no money for you!" )    What about future republican administrations?  What will they want in return from the Ukraine in exchange for aid? 

 

[dondub]

The following two countries, NK and Iran, would become obsidian parking lots if they ever launched a nuke onto any of their supposed targets. They know better. But proselytizing their saber rattling now has our military budget at $750 BILLION which equals the next 9 countries expenditures. Who is our real enemy.

And Vlad may be wacky but not stupid. He knows better than to launch and even threatening it was ridiculous as the rest of the world is now on alert. MAD should keep his finger off the big red button.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 9, 2022 17:24:43 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Mar 9, 2022 15:51:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

did you feel the same way about the unprovoked invasion that happened in 2003?

It was very concerning, but it didn't feel like this does now - like everything is teetering on the brink.

"we are all Russians now"

it is weird for the US to feign piety.  everyone outside the US understood us to be criminally negligent and aggressive in Iraq, and quite a few inside did, too.  now that the tables have turned, there are very few in the US that recognize the similarity, let alone the deep and ugly hypocrisy.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 9, 2022 18:05:44 GMT -5 dondub said:

The following two countries, NK and Iran, would become obsidian parking lots if they ever launched a nuke onto any of their supposed targets. They know better. But proselytizing their saber rattling now has our military budget at $750 BILLION which equals the next 9 countries expenditures. Who is our real enemy.

And Vlad may be wacky but not stupid. He knows better than to launch and even threatening it was ridiculous as the rest of the world is now on alert. MAD should keep his finger off the big red button.

i don't need to ask you ANY of these questions, don.  these are for the benefit of the board:

who is more hated and feared in the world?  Russia or the US?
who has vastly more occupied territory in foreign countries, including massive military bases abroad?  the US or Russia?
who has "liberated" or assisted in the "liberation" of the most nations since WW2?
who has formed military alliances with the most countries outside their own since WW2?
who has used their veto to block efforts of the UN the most since 1970, Russia or the US?

we really need to start getting honest about our role in this debate for it to end well.

[dondub]

Mar 9, 2022 18:21:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 9, 2022 18:05:44 GMT -5 dondub said:

The following two countries, NK and Iran, would become obsidian parking lots if they ever launched a nuke onto any of their supposed targets. They know better. But proselytizing their saber rattling now has our military budget at $750 BILLION which equals the next 9 countries expenditures. Who is our real enemy.

And Vlad may be wacky but not stupid. He knows better than to launch and even threatening it was ridiculous as the rest of the world is now on alert. MAD should keep his finger off the big red button.

i don't need to ask you ANY of these questions, don.  these are for the benefit of the board:

who is more hated and feared in the world?  Russia or the US?
who has vastly more occupied territory in foreign countries, including massive military bases abroad?  the US or Russia?
who has "liberated" or assisted in the "liberation" of the most nations since WW2?
who has formed military alliances with the most countries outside their own since WW2?
who has used their veto to block efforts of the UN the most since 1970, Russia or the US?

we really need to start getting honest about our role in this debate for it to end well.

Reading The Shock Doctrine filled in some gaps from what I knew before. We are a rogue nation.

[djAdvocate]

you know this one?

[dondub]

Mar 9, 2022 19:43:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

you know this one?

I gave that to a niece in a Christmas book exchange years ago. She was a student at Barnard. She is an omsbudsman lawyer now.

[djAdvocate]

i had a sublimely happy response to your reply.
<endorphin surge>

[dondub]

So the USA reminds me of my mom. Passive/aggressive with overriding narcissism.
So we will help rebuild our enemies countries after WW II. Nice. We will not only back every rightwing coup in Central and South America, we will train them in torture. We will come to the aid of any country that has a natural disaster. Then we’ll bomb the shit out of Vietnam.

During all of this largesse and the various reigns of terror we will always consider ourselves #1, and very exceptional. I might have a dissenting viewpoint.

[djAdvocate]

note to the board: i am not playing a Tucker Carlson here.
i am not saying that Putin is NOT an asshole to be feared for his derangement.
i am merely saying that if you happen to live in some place like...South Africa....
you are probably LESS afraid of Putin than you are of the USA.
and for good reason.


(yes, the US has a permanent base located in South Africa)

[djAdvocate]

Mar 9, 2022 19:57:48 GMT -5 dondub said:

So the USA reminds me of my mom. Passive/aggressive with overriding narcissism.
So we will help rebuild our enemies countries after WW II. Nice. We will not only back every rightwing coup in Central and South America, we will train them in torture. We will come to the aid of any country that has a natural disaster. Then we’ll bomb the shit out of Vietnam.

During all of this largesse and the various reigns of terror we will always consider ourselves #1, and very exceptional. I might have a dissenting viewpoint.

i have had numerous long discussions over the year about how great we are.
the argument basically devolves into the two admitted areas where we still dominate:
GDP and military might.

what do you call a rich bully?
Donald Trump.
he epitomizes the only two things we can brag about.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

one Ukrainian's opinoin on this

www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/europe/ukrainian-foster-mom-intl/index.html

Fears for the children she works with and the state of her country have tears running down psychologist Oksana's face as she talks. The children aren't the only ones suffering. Trauma doesn't discriminate.

But her sorrow turns to rage when she speaks of the man she sees as responsible for waging an unprovoked war on Ukraine: Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"Putin is the second Hitler, it is serious. If the world will not stop him, there will be World War Three," she said.

[djAdvocate]

i understand the reaction, but i think it is an overreaction.

Putin is not likely to try to rebuild the USSR.

[dondub]

Mar 10, 2022 13:45:37 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

one Ukrainian's opinoin on this

www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/europe/ukrainian-foster-mom-intl/index.html

Fears for the children she works with and the state of her country have tears running down psychologist Oksana's face as she talks. The children aren't the only ones suffering. Trauma doesn't discriminate.

But her sorrow turns to rage when she speaks of the man she sees as responsible for waging an unprovoked war on Ukraine: Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"Putin is the second Hitler, it is serious. If the world will not stop him, there will be World War Three," she said.

No, there won’t. He isn’t that strong militarily to go up against all NATO has to offer. Unless he is crazy and uses nukes. As I’ve spent my whole life at Ground Zero I doubt I would be able to care.☠️

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 10, 2022 14:12:55 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i understand the reaction, but i think it is an overreaction.

Putin is not likely to try to rebuild the USSR.

are you sure about that?

how would we even know what is behind his simpering face?

[djAdvocate]

Mar 10, 2022 15:45:45 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Mar 10, 2022 14:12:55 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i understand the reaction, but i think it is an overreaction.

Putin is not likely to try to rebuild the USSR.

are you sure about that?

how would we even know what is behind his simpering face?

yes, i am sure it is unlikely.
i don't need to know what is behind his simpering face to know it is unlikely.

when he invades a NATO COUNTRY, i am willing to entertain some doubts.
until then, he is doing it because he can.  he knows he can.
just like we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and funded the Contras because we knew we could.

make sense?

[laterbloomer]

Mar 9, 2022 17:24:43 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Mar 9, 2022 15:51:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

did you feel the same way about the unprovoked invasion that happened in 2003?

It was very concerning, but it didn't feel like this does now - like everything is teetering on the brink.

Probably because you guys were the aggressors.

[djAdvocate]

/\that