NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 17, 2022 17:23:33 GMT -5
My husband worked till age 69, I had been out of the work place for years and wanted some money of my own. Like an idiot I applied at 62, BIG MISTAKE. Cut about 25% and if I outlive hubs his benefit to me will be cut. I don't know if that is the basic benefit or his increased payments. I had called and asked over and over if this happened would mine be cut, they said no. You really have to be careful. Since hubs could prove he had credible coverage he was able to put off taking medicare. He had coverage for both of us but SS recommended I take medicare A the part with no premium. But when we got ready to switch his, it was a nightmare. He did not take Part A, the basic till he retired. It took us forever to find a SS person that understood it. For a year they screwed with our premiums. Retirement is considered a "life changing event" and you need to use that as they tried to charge us a ton extra for premiums as before he retired hubs was considered a highly compensated individual. It ended up that did not matter and wasn't counted against us on income but it was a battle royal. After we got it sorted out it was ok. But now our medicare premiums for the supplement and drugs is raising every year. In the next few years my whole SS check will go for premiums, hope a lot of you have good insurance in retirement. Yet if you make too much money in retirement and its not all that high you will be paying increased premiums for insurance. I also debated on tax deferring money for after retirement but hubs just wouldn't see us not doing it. So now that increased our income and now 85% of our SS benefits are taxable. Damned if you do damned if you don't. My advice defer what you need to get the whole max from your company. Pay taxes on the rest of your income, do not take SS at 62 unless you can't work. And yes you will have to find insurance until age 65 and pay the premiums. And who knows what the laws will be , I think son will be almost 68 before he can get full SS benefits. He will have a military pension if he can finish his years out. He bought 10 years of seniority from the military and carried it over when he went to work for the DOD so he had that much when he started with them. Not unless they change the law. Currently FRA for anyone born after 1960 is 67 years. If they change that all bets are off.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2022 17:27:25 GMT -5
I’ve learned my limits of caretaking concerning my Mom. Some of it, I could do and be halfway ok but if she actually needed the level of assistance she tried to force me to provide, and more, somebody would have to pay for that. If I tried, it would end up being 2 people needing assistance, because, I just can’t.
I would love to be able to lovingly take care of my Mom if she starts seriously declining, like so many other people have done and are doing. But between how she’s treated me over the last 7 or 8 years (long before she moved into my house, it just got much worse after that), and how I’m built, I believe it would be detrimental to my mental health and ability to function.
One of the possibly easy to understand things about “how I’m built”, I have a strong aversion to and don’t do well with bodily fluids. The only time I’ve ever been able to handle it was with my own children. I am not even willing to try to deal with that with my Mom. I probably would have for my Grandmother, and probably would for my adult children and Mister if they needed that kind of care. Idk what that says about me, but whatever.
So, knowing how I am, I think about the possibility that no one in my life might be willing to take care of ME like that. And even if they would, I’d prefer options that meant they didn’t have to. I know that the level of assistance my Mom needs without relying so much on me is not inexpensive if someone was doing it for pay, and my Mom’s needs are *only* because of mobility issues die to needing a hip replacement. An issue that was known and could’ve been “fixed” before she came to my house.
I understand trying to plan for all the “what ifs” and I think about that, even if my actual planning is not optimal. I’ve been increasing my savings over the last few years. That’s all I have, to try to take care of my older self. The way I feel about my job, and even just having to work to just try to survive (mid life crisis) these days, if I didn’t get to play with some of the money I earn by working……. honestly, I don’t think taking care of my older self would be enough incentive to keep dragging myself to work.
Just knowing SS is an option for income at age 62 helps me a lot with all my worries about preparing for retirement. I am trying to be able to retire before I am 60yo. If that means I end up having to take SS as soon as I’m eligible, even though I’d rather not, whatever. I am tired of working, mentally and physically.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 17, 2022 17:31:30 GMT -5
For my fil, with my wife’s employee discount, it was $22/hr for in home care. Before he finally acquiesced, it cost $14k for the last month. Assisted living had 4 levels of care, ranging from $4400-$5900/month, depending on needs for a 1 bedroom apartment. He got meals and utilities except for a phone. Transportation to doctors appointments and other outings. He died after 1.5 months. We sold his condo for $250k, clearing $225k. He could have lived there for years without touching his SS and pension.
The amenities were great. He would have had social interaction with people of his generation, instead of sitting in his condo by himself or with an aide, waiting for my wife to stop by after work for an hour.
As I said, money gives you options. If he would have listened to us and been willing to plan, his last year would have been better and he may not have suffered as much. He fell 8 times in 6 months before he saw the light.
These numbers are all from December 2020-April 2021.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2022 17:34:01 GMT -5
One of the possibly easy to understand things about “how I’m built”, I have a strong aversion to and don’t do well with bodily fluids. The only time I’ve ever been able to handle it was with my own children. I am not even willing to try to deal with that with my Mom. I probably would have for my Grandmother, and probably would for my adult children and Mister if they needed that kind of care. Idk what that says about me, but whatever. So, knowing how I am, I think about the possibility that no one in my life might be willing to take care of ME like that. And even if they would, I’d prefer options that meant they didn’t have to. I agree- I don't do bodily fluids well. I did manage with DH but that was only in the last couple of weeks. He was also down to 117 lbs. so I could pick him up off the floor when he fell. My DSIL was torturing herself with guilt because they didn't take Dad in after his stroke- Dad was incapable of getting in and out of bed or a wheel chair, incontinent and got easily confused. It doesn't take long for anyone to burn out under those circumstances, and DSIL LOVED my parents as much as my siblings and I did (which is why I try to overlook her politics ). There's no way I want DS ad DDIL to have those duties with me if it comes to that. I just want them to come visit and bring cookies.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 17, 2022 17:42:10 GMT -5
One of the possibly easy to understand things about “how I’m built”, I have a strong aversion to and don’t do well with bodily fluids. The only time I’ve ever been able to handle it was with my own children. I am not even willing to try to deal with that with my Mom. I probably would have for my Grandmother, and probably would for my adult children and Mister if they needed that kind of care. Idk what that says about me, but whatever. So, knowing how I am, I think about the possibility that no one in my life might be willing to take care of ME like that. And even if they would, I’d prefer options that meant they didn’t have to. I agree- I don't do bodily fluids well. I did manage with DH but that was only in the last couple of weeks. He was also down to 117 lbs. so I could pick him up off the floor when he fell. My DSIL was torturing herself with guilt because they didn't take Dad in after his stroke- Dad was incapable of getting in and out of bed or a wheel chair, incontinent and got easily confused. It doesn't take long for anyone to burn out under those circumstances, and DSIL LOVED my parents as much as my siblings and I did (which is why I try to overlook her politics ). There's no way I want DS ad DDIL to have those duties with me if it comes to that. I just want them to come visit and bring cookies. People frequently underestimate the difficulty in taking care of these people, an overestimate there ability. They also discount the expertise of the people caring for these people. It is impossible for one person to do 24 he a day care, even with the best intentions. When do you sleep? Go to the doctor? Shopping? The system is a mess, and we do not have the will to do anything about it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2022 17:44:54 GMT -5
For my fil, assisted living was less than having in home care, once you factor in meals, utilities, and food. If he had been willing to consider it earlier, he may have lived longer and had a better quality of life. And if he had sold his condo, he could have financed it got 4-5 years out of those proceeds without touching hi SS or pension When DH was in his last months I used a very good home health care firm to have someone sit with him while I went out for a few hours. He was mostly weak, and a fall risk, but could get himself to the bathroom with help, feed himself, dress himself with help. They were also willing to prepare meals, give meds (just pills, no IVs), take people to doc appointments, do light housework and pick up groceries or prescriptions (before COVID so these services weren't widely available). They were $22/hour in 2016, so if you lived alone and had them 24/7 or even just during the day it would add up. They told me they had one 97-year old client who still lived at home and used their services- I think it would be very isolating. That's an example, though, of what "assisted living" can provide- you may not need a doctor or a nurse but there's just stuff you can't do yourself. I ended up parceling out DH's pills, for example, because he'd forget to take one or two and leave them lying around. There was no way he could drive. And, for those who say they can't afford LTC- as pulmonarymd says, selling a house can free up enough equity. Many places will take you if you have enough to self-pay for 2 years and then accept Medicaid. If you can't pay for the beginning, the choices dwindle. Trying to hang on to my house is both an emotional decision and an attempt at a good business decision. It will be paid off before I retire, and will ideally be a source of income after I retire. I would love for that to happen, and I pass it to my children when I die. If things don’t work out like that, and knowing that selling a house is not a quick process, if I needed to sell it today, it would put quite a bit of money in my pocket. I understand that the housing market is crazy right now and prices may or may not settle down at some point, but I’ve had the house long enough that a lot of bad stuff would have to happen for me to not make money off of selling it. I don’t include it in my planning as far as potential income, it is just kind of like my Ace in my pocket, there for whatever I need it for. Hopefully, the longer I keep it, the more valuable of an asset it will be.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2022 17:46:55 GMT -5
I don't know if this will actually post because a lot of my posts on this thread have gone "poof" but FWIW, DH wanted me to retire with him when he was 62 so we could enjoy life together. I'm glad I did because we had some great times before health issues hit. I was younger so I worked a lot of part-time jobs to pay for my healthcare until I became Medicare eligible. My premiums went up to $1,000 a month and that's a lot of part-time low-pay jobs.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Mar 17, 2022 17:49:25 GMT -5
One of the possibly easy to understand things about “how I’m built”, I have a strong aversion to and don’t do well with bodily fluids. The only time I’ve ever been able to handle it was with my own children. I am not even willing to try to deal with that with my Mom. I probably would have for my Grandmother, and probably would for my adult children and Mister if they needed that kind of care. Idk what that says about me, but whatever. So, knowing how I am, I think about the possibility that no one in my life might be willing to take care of ME like that. And even if they would, I’d prefer options that meant they didn’t have to. I agree- I don't do bodily fluids well. I did manage with DH but that was only in the last couple of weeks. He was also down to 117 lbs. so I could pick him up off the floor when he fell. My DSIL was torturing herself with guilt because they didn't take Dad in after his stroke- Dad was incapable of getting in and out of bed or a wheel chair, incontinent and got easily confused. It doesn't take long for anyone to burn out under those circumstances, and DSIL LOVED my parents as much as my siblings and I did (which is why I try to overlook her politics ). There's no way I want DS ad DDIL to have those duties with me if it comes to that. I just want them to come visit and bring cookies. Your last sentence says it all where I am concerned.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2022 18:05:27 GMT -5
Okay, third try to post here. I cared for my elderly mother for many years at tremendous emotional and financial costs, and we have absolutely no one to take care of me and DH other than paid caregivers. So we fork out $1,000 a month for an insurance policy that may or not pay out. It sucks.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 17, 2022 18:05:54 GMT -5
I want to be closer to son so he can help me with paperwork and all that entails with DD. Hubs said I want to move for them to take care of me! I don't know where he gets that, I have not had help since the kids were little. I hope I can keep my mental abilities, so far, so good, but man I'm getting old.
I know there is a group home somewhere for DD, but man they are not good. I hate that. Sadly she is not allowed to live in one and get VA assistance. When something happens to hubs and I if she could VA and her dads SS she will get would pay for her. And she could function in one with some help just fine. But VA does not allow them to have medicaid nor medicaid VA so that's out. Totally stupid in my book. Here she would have enough to possibly pay for an efficiency on her own with help from a trust, but the rates may be to high by then. Bless her heart she said we can both live together in assisted living mom, she just thinks I will live forever to help her.
Since dementia runs in hubs moms family, I don't know what will happen there. Scares me to death, it may impoverish us if he goes that route. His mom is 95, almost 10 years into dementia and still going. She was physically healthy and he is too. Rarely if ever sick.
It's hard to tell what will happen as we age. Mine is 87 hubs is about 85. Not that long really as we will both be 76 this year. That will only get her to age 63. I just want her to be as happy as she can be in a decent environment, but afraid that won't happen.
And I know there will be noone to care for us. I never planned on it anyway. But who knows, hubs is very loyal to his mom, perhaps son will be the same. He visits and I take care of all her paperwork.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 17, 2022 18:07:06 GMT -5
Yes, we looked at those, but they only pay for so many years and so many companies are going bankrupt, we opted not to get long term health insurance, just saved the money instead.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Mar 17, 2022 18:53:43 GMT -5
[ Parts B and D cost money. Whether you should sign up for Part B (or Part D) when you turn 65 depends on whether you have other "creditable" insurance coverage (for example, a group plan through your employer if you are still working). If you don't have other "creditable" insurance coverage and you don't sign up for Part B or Part D when you are first eligible, your premium when you eventually sign up will be increased forever. I had ACA coverage from age 61 when I retired to age 65 when I qualified for Medicare and I thought that was the same thing as "buying off the exchanges". I am not paying any late sign-up penalty. My ACA coverage was considered creditable. I'm pretty sure that the Christian Healthcare ministries (which aren't really insurance and they're very open about that) are not, though. I didn't collect SS on my own record till last month at age 69 but had no problem getting Medicare at 65. Why would you if you signed up at 65? That's the first you were eligible. If you wait until after that you face penalties.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2022 19:29:20 GMT -5
Yes, we looked at those, but they only pay for so many years and so many companies are going bankrupt, we opted not to get long term health insurance, just saved the money instead. When LTC insurance first came out I was probably in my late 40s- not really considering it. In retrospect it was underpriced, but I doubt that the life actuaries had good data on mortality for people in LTC. Might be worse because they're sedentary, may not have visitors, social activities, etc. Might be better because they're getting 3 meals a day, regular baths, meds when they need them, etc. There would NOT have been data on self-selection: people who buy LTC insurance anticipate longer lives based on their own and family history. In retrospect- it was underpriced. Insurers responded by increasing rates (and of course the ones who let their policies lapse were the ones who anticipated not needing LTC in the near future) or offering decreased coverage amounts instead. Two stories I've seen, the financial guru Jim Cramer and a guy who posts in the Early Retirement Board, both fought long, nasty battles with LTC insurers when they disagreed with the insurers' decision that their elderly parent did not need LTC. They both won but Cramer said the settlement was about equivalent to the lawyer fees. So- I'm not buying it. As a single, I don't have the scary one spouse in LTC/one at home scenario to worry about. I didn't collect SS on my own record till last month at age 69 but had no problem getting Medicare at 65. Why would you if you signed up at 65? That's the first you were eligible. If you wait until after that you face penalties. Oops- you're right. The penalty is for waiting till AFTER 65.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Mar 17, 2022 19:30:55 GMT -5
Recently filed my SS yearly statement. The payments vary significantly. I am in the age bracket that full retirement is now 67. There is a big difference between payments at 62 and payments at 70. I'm not clear on what happens Medicare-wise if I choose to retire at 70 for SS. Be sure to sign up for Medicare at 65. It’s not related to time you take SS. I made that mistake, took SS at 66 then signed for Medicare. If over 65 then you pay a penalty every month for rest of your life. Unless you have insurance through a company of over 500 people (think it’s that #}, then you’re not penalized if over 65 when you take Medicare. BUT the company may require you to sign anyway for Medicare at 65
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2022 19:40:31 GMT -5
If this is a duplicate post, I'm sorry but almost everything I type goes poof. I'm living the aging reality right now with a friend. She's over 80, legally blind and getting blinder, hard of hearing, limited mobility. As part of her informal caretaking group, I can say we are maxed out, tired, aging ourselves, traveling when we can and just flat burned out. Her answer to the situation is to try to exchange a free bedroom for caretaking. This will not end well. She said life without dogs is not life so no chance of any other living situation unless it becomes a matter for the authorities. Currently we divide up transportation, bill pay, tax filing, shopping, medical transportation, home repair and more but it just can't go on forever.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 17, 2022 19:45:38 GMT -5
If this is a duplicate post, I'm sorry but almost everything I type goes poof. I'm living the aging reality right now with a friend. She's over 80, legally blind and getting blinder, hard of hearing, limited mobility. As part of her informal caretaking group, I can say we are maxed out, tired, aging ourselves, traveling when we can and just flat burned out. Her answer to the situation is to try to exchange a free bedroom for caretaking. This will not end well. She said life without dogs is not life so no chance of any other living situation unless it becomes a matter for the authorities. Currently we divide up transportation, bill pay, tax filing, shopping, medical transportation, home repair and more but it just can't go on forever. We see this scenario far too often. People do not accept reality, and refuse to plan. People get taken advantaging of because they are kind and want to prevent a disaster. You are correct, it won’t end well. She will fall, break her hip, have a stroke or something similar, and then there will be a scramble to find some kind of solution, which will likely be sub-optimal
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Mar 17, 2022 20:01:57 GMT -5
I paid $700 /week for a live in caretaker for my disabled sister for about 7 years. She was a wonderful kind and competent woman. But she didn’t drive. I lived in next town took sister to appointments , grocery dhopping etc. paid for her condo taxes HMO fees but she was able to get help with electric and gas. Also food . And finally Medicaid But all of these government helps required lots of documentation and paperwork. In last 2 years of her life was able to get some assistance for her live in. It was a lot of work , required time but if sister had been in a facility think she wouldn’t have survived long. Her live in aide even walked over to the rehab facility to stay with DSis when she was there after hospitalization. Made DSis life much better. My goal always was to let my DSis have the best life she could. Her aide is now caring for a woman 102 years! We still see each other. I love her as one of my family snd will be forever grateful for her. I kept working to pay for this but also am so grateful I was able to work and pay for my DSis. I miss her
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 17, 2022 20:12:07 GMT -5
So, who should do the work? And who is paying for it? This is the system we have. People do not work for free. Medicare does not cover this. Until the system is different, what is supposed to happen? The people holed up in nursing homes when they don't belong in them are the ones without family willing and able to do the work for free. To create a system dependent upon family stepping up, when families are get smaller and smaller is asinine. And it's easy for those with plenty of money to wag their fingers at those who struggled to save any nestegg at all.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 17, 2022 20:14:02 GMT -5
I know what it is. I took care of my mother for the lady years of her life. Any extra help you need, they add on considerably to the price. Yes, but they deserve the pay. They get hit, feces thrown at them, abused verbally and all sorts of stuff. It takes a special kind of person to do it for years IMO. The workers definitely do deserve a lot more, but the companies employing them charge amounts that are unaffordable to most.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 17, 2022 20:54:47 GMT -5
I lost 6 years of my own social security contributions mid career in order to care for my mother, and I'm fucking thrilled to make $60 fucking thousand dollars a year now. Between my husband and I, together our gross wouldn't max out the social security contribution. And still, we're saving about $60k a year in retirement. We could live it up if we didn't--vacations, my husband could actually afford a truck! (Maybe, idk) A house bigger than the modest 1700 sf ranch we have thats feeling tight as the boys get bigger. Maybe we're suckers, cause we gave up a lot in order to be able to pay $150k for a nursing home, while our peers blew through their money, and they're a-ok with going on Medicaid if need be. Please, lecture me people who've been able to max social security much of their working careers on how much more I should sacrifice to save uncle Sam even more money than I already had killing myself to take care of my mom.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 17, 2022 21:03:39 GMT -5
So, who should do the work? And who is paying for it? This is the system we have. People do not work for free. Medicare does not cover this. Until the system is different, what is supposed to happen? The people holed up in nursing homes when they don't belong in them are the ones without family willing and able to do the work for free. To create a system dependent upon family stepping up, when families are get smaller and smaller is asinine. And it's easy for those with plenty of money to wag their fingers at those who struggled to save any nestegg at all. I am not lecturing anyone. I am stating facts. This is a message board about money. People on here plan all the time about investing. This should be part of the planning. How the end of your life is going to be lived needs to be considered. If people are having smaller families, it is more important than ever to plan the end. Who is supposed to make decisions for the childless? Somebody they know, or some random person? People need to make these decisions for themselves. I do not understand why this is controversial
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 17, 2022 21:57:06 GMT -5
With our DD its hard to plan. I too quit early to help take care of my mom. It cost all she had in assisted living and she only made it in a nursing home a few months. she just qualified for medicaid when she died.
Some of us have already been caregivers for most of our lives. We set up a mobile right next door to our house and mom wouldn't move in it. She was determined she was living with us and going everywhere with us. Her thing in life was running around. She was half blind and we couldn't go anywhere or do anything. We tried taking her, even with help she was falling over things and could hardly see to eat. Finally because she would not compromise we had to do assisted living. Between she and DD I had to quit work years early so now low SS. I really had no life, but I dealt with it.
Now I'm up to my butt in paperwork for MIL, medicaid and VA, nightmares. DD mediciad, but I'm guardian of both and also fiduciary for MIL. I have found from my CPA if I need it their firm will do this. I keep records on excel for them, have to reconcile their statements monthly, along with keep records for our rentals. Some days I would like to run away, LOL! But I'm hanging in there, will have to do the same for hubs if he needs it. There is no one to take care of me and yes at times I worry about it. If mentally I decline I will be so vulnerable and that scares me. I worked on the placements for MIL and did it all.
I can tell you the paperwork alone is exhausting let alone physical care.
For DD hair care, brushing teeth, taking care of incontinence when she needs it. No way can I at age 76 take care of another.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Mar 18, 2022 4:56:24 GMT -5
Don't you still apply for Medicare at 65 no matter what you're doing with SS? I think so, but I'm not sure. You want to apply for it even if you have other coverage. The insurance through your job would be your primary and Medicare would be your secondary. If you don't apply for it, you could be looking at penalties. I don't remember what they are, but I do remember that not applying is a problem. You don't have to use it until you need it IIRC.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 6:52:29 GMT -5
The people holed up in nursing homes when they don't belong in them are the ones without family willing and able to do the work for free. To create a system dependent upon family stepping up, when families are get smaller and smaller is asinine. And it's easy for those with plenty of money to wag their fingers at those who struggled to save any nestegg at all. I am not lecturing anyone. I am stating facts. This is a message board about money. People on here plan all the time about investing. This should be part of the planning. How the end of your life is going to be lived needs to be considered. If people are having smaller families, it is more important than ever to plan the end. Who is supposed to make decisions for the childless? Somebody they know, or some random person? People need to make these decisions for themselves. I do not understand why this is controversial What is controversial is the idea of doing away with the small amount of assets that are allowed to be sheltered from medicaid. The poor are taken care of regardless, the richer are gonna be fine no matter what, but the middle class are constantly screwed in this country. And, creating policy that saves money due to unpaid care provided by mostly women, at the detriment of their own jobs/financial position. Don't you think bosses love when people have to call off constantly to take care of something for an aging parent? I'm sure it's great for careers and leads to promotions. 😏
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 18, 2022 8:14:53 GMT -5
I am not lecturing anyone. I am stating facts. This is a message board about money. People on here plan all the time about investing. This should be part of the planning. How the end of your life is going to be lived needs to be considered. If people are having smaller families, it is more important than ever to plan the end. Who is supposed to make decisions for the childless? Somebody they know, or some random person? People need to make these decisions for themselves. I do not understand why this is controversial What is controversial is the idea of doing away with the small amount of assets that are allowed to be sheltered from medicaid. The poor are taken care of regardless, the richer are gonna be fine no matter what, but the middle class are constantly screwed in this country. And, creating policy that saves money due to unpaid care provided by mostly women, at the detriment of their own jobs/financial position. Don't you think bosses love when people have to call off constantly to take care of something for an aging parent? I'm sure it's great for careers and leads to promotions. 😏 I do not like the system. It is the system that we have. We need to work within it. We went through this same issue with both my MIL and FIL. Right now, there is no right to health care in America. People need to plan accordingly. If you have some assets, you have choices. If you have no assets, the choices are made for you, simple as that. THe same thing comes with decision making. If you are competent, you can make some decisions. Incompetent, and someone else makes them. Optimally, it is a family member or someone else close to the patient. If not, someone is appointed. IME, that is usually a mess. Finally, if the patient does not pay for their care, someone else must. That usually is Medicaid, which means from our taxes. Why should people be able to shield assets to pass down and let the taxpayers foot all the bills. If we do not like the system, we need our laws to change. Good luck with that given our current government.
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Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 21:25:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 8:42:45 GMT -5
Right now, there is no right to health care in America. People need to plan accordingly. <snip> Finally, if the patient does not pay for their care, someone else must. That usually is Medicaid, which means from our taxes. Why should people be able to shield assets to pass down and let the taxpayers foot all the bills. If we do not like the system, we need our laws to change. Good luck with that given our current government. Failing to plan is planning to fail. We can all bemoan the patchwork status of eldercare in the US but it is what it is. We can all hope that we die quickly at the end of a long, active life but it's not under our control (with the exception of some people on the Early Retirement Board who swear they'll OD on something if they start to lose their marbles). In this thread, the Elderly Parent Support thread and elsewhere on this Board I see people struggling to support parents who could have made better decisions and didn't. We can all try not to be one of those parents. Two things I WOULD like to see changed: expand payment to in-home caregivers who are family members to anyone, regardless of whether their loved on is on Medicaid or not (right now they have to be on Medicaid) and do something about the cruel circumstances that leave the in-home spouse with very little if the other spouse requires LTC paid by Medicaid. There's got to be some healthy middle ground between allowing them to keep enough to leave buckets of money to their heirs and forcing them to spend down to $120,000 or so, which pretty much guarantees that if they need LTC they'll also have to resort to Medicaid.
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Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
Posts: 14,659
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 8:49:24 GMT -5
What is controversial is the idea of doing away with the small amount of assets that are allowed to be sheltered from medicaid. The poor are taken care of regardless, the richer are gonna be fine no matter what, but the middle class are constantly screwed in this country. And, creating policy that saves money due to unpaid care provided by mostly women, at the detriment of their own jobs/financial position. Don't you think bosses love when people have to call off constantly to take care of something for an aging parent? I'm sure it's great for careers and leads to promotions. 😏 I do not like the system. It is the system that we have. We need to work within it. We went through this same issue with both my MIL and FIL. Right now, there is no right to health care in America. People need to plan accordingly. If you have some assets, you have choices. If you have no assets, the choices are made for you, simple as that. THe same thing comes with decision making. If you are competent, you can make some decisions. Incompetent, and someone else makes them. Optimally, it is a family member or someone else close to the patient. If not, someone is appointed. IME, that is usually a mess. Finally, if the patient does not pay for their care, someone else must. That usually is Medicaid, which means from our taxes. Why should people be able to shield assets to pass down and let the taxpayers foot all the bills. If we do not like the system, we need our laws to change. Good luck with that given our current government. It's all a mess, even if you don't see it because it falls on the family's shoulders. In learning about how redlining has caused intergenerational poverty, the argument is that home ownership, and the transfer of intergenerational wealth via the main store of wealth amongst people of modest means---the home, makes a large difference in level of wealth and prosperity generations down the line. The policies of requiring people of modest means to pay for care by giving up the family home further exacerbates wealth inequality by cutting off the people of marginal means off at the knees. In order to reduce inequality, it would be better to return to inheritance tax over a more reasonable threshold.
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pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,366
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 18, 2022 8:55:19 GMT -5
Right now, there is no right to health care in America. People need to plan accordingly. <snip> Finally, if the patient does not pay for their care, someone else must. That usually is Medicaid, which means from our taxes. Why should people be able to shield assets to pass down and let the taxpayers foot all the bills. If we do not like the system, we need our laws to change. Good luck with that given our current government. Failing to plan is planning to fail. We can all bemoan the patchwork status of eldercare in the US but it is what it is. We can all hope that we die quickly at the end of a long, active life but it's not under our control (with the exception of some people on the Early Retirement Board who swear they'll OD on something if they start to lose their marbles). In this thread, the Elderly Parent Support thread and elsewhere on this Board I see people struggling to support parents who could have made better decisions and didn't. We can all try not to be one of those parents. Two things I WOULD like to see changed: expand payment to in-home caregivers who are family members to anyone, regardless of whether their loved on is on Medicaid or not (right now they have to be on Medicaid) and do something about the cruel circumstances that leave the in-home spouse with very little if the other spouse requires LTC paid by Medicaid. There's got to be some healthy middle ground between allowing them to keep enough to leave buckets of money to their heirs and forcing them to spend down to $120,000 or so, which pretty much guarantees that if they need LTC they'll also have to resort to Medicaid.The first one is tough. I have seen many incompetent people get paid to do that care, and incompetence is worse than no care. I do not know how to improve that situation. The second one I agree with. My FIL was in this situation. He wound up being ok because he was healthy for a while after my MIL dies, and his SS+pension was more than his expenses, so he built up a nest egg over time. It helped that he had very simple wants. It requires we tackle many aspects of our healthcare system, and requires a desire to work together and compromise. Given our current political environment, I am not hopeful. People save for a "rainy day". When a health crisis appears, it is raining. The money needs to be spent, but people do not want to. Dumping it on taxpayers when there are assets is unfair, IMHO.
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pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,366
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 18, 2022 9:03:11 GMT -5
I do not like the system. It is the system that we have. We need to work within it. We went through this same issue with both my MIL and FIL. Right now, there is no right to health care in America. People need to plan accordingly. If you have some assets, you have choices. If you have no assets, the choices are made for you, simple as that. THe same thing comes with decision making. If you are competent, you can make some decisions. Incompetent, and someone else makes them. Optimally, it is a family member or someone else close to the patient. If not, someone is appointed. IME, that is usually a mess. Finally, if the patient does not pay for their care, someone else must. That usually is Medicaid, which means from our taxes. Why should people be able to shield assets to pass down and let the taxpayers foot all the bills. If we do not like the system, we need our laws to change. Good luck with that given our current government. It's all a mess, even if you don't see it because it falls on the family's shoulders. In learning about how redlining has caused intergenerational poverty, the argument is that home ownership, and the transfer of intergenerational wealth via the main store of wealth amongst people of modest means---the home, makes a large difference in level of wealth and prosperity generations down the line. The policies of requiring people of modest means to pay for care by giving up the family home further exacerbates wealth inequality by cutting off the people of marginal means off at the knees. In order to reduce inequality, it would be better to return to inheritance tax over a more reasonable threshold. You have no idea about what I have seen. My MIL had dementia, fell, broke her hip, and needed care at home before she wound up in a nursing home. My wife is still angry with her father over the situation. My FIL had a few years of failing health, refused our pleas to get home health care, had a bad fall, and went downhill from there. My wife went there almost every day after work to bring him food and to see what he needed. He was angry she would not quit her job to take care of him, and I expect he really wanted to move in with him. Between that and what I see at my job, I am well aware of what the system is like. I am sorry, but expecting taxpayers to pay for care so a family can pass down wealth is abusive to the taxpayers. Reforming the tax system is a different topic. But for every person who is "abused" by the system, there are others who take advantage of it. I have seen people refuse to apply for Medicaid for a family member because the kids are living in the house, forcing a nursing home to eat the cost month after month. Yet they still have to pay for the patients care, and they cannot just discharge them to an unsafe environment. The system is broken. Our legislators need to fix it. Good luck with that.
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Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
Posts: 14,659
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 9:09:49 GMT -5
It's all a mess, even if you don't see it because it falls on the family's shoulders. In learning about how redlining has caused intergenerational poverty, the argument is that home ownership, and the transfer of intergenerational wealth via the main store of wealth amongst people of modest means---the home, makes a large difference in level of wealth and prosperity generations down the line. The policies of requiring people of modest means to pay for care by giving up the family home further exacerbates wealth inequality by cutting off the people of marginal means off at the knees. In order to reduce inequality, it would be better to return to inheritance tax over a more reasonable threshold. You have no idea about what I have seen. My MIL had dementia, fell, broke her hip, and needed care at home before she wound up in a nursing home. My wife is still angry with her father over the situation. My FIL had a few years of failing health, refused our pleas to get home health care, had a bad fall, and went downhill from there. My wife went there almost every day after work to bring him food and to see what he needed. He was angry she would not quit her job to take care of him, and I expect he really wanted to move in with him. Between that and what I see at my job, I am well aware of what the system is like. I am sorry, but expecting taxpayers to pay for care so a family can pass down wealth is abusive to the taxpayers. Reforming the tax system is a different topic. But for every person who is "abused" by the system, there are others who take advantage of it. I have seen people refuse to apply for Medicaid for a family member because the kids are living in the house, forcing a nursing home to eat the cost month after month. Yet they still have to pay for the patients care, and they cannot just discharge them to an unsafe environment. The system is broken. Our legislators need to fix it. Good luck with that. It's easy to say when your family has plenty. And my mom fell and broke her back on her birthday. I had classes out of town all day, and was supposed to go to a networking thing there that night. My brother, who lived 0.6 miles away from her, was supposed to actually visit "our" mother for her birthday and to check on her, but didn't. She had been laying on the hardwood floor for most of the day. It's a good thing I skipped the networking thing, but it wasn't good for my job prospects.
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