Mazars drops trump

[swamp]

www.cnn.com/2022/02/15/politics/mazars-trump-letter-letitia-james/index.html

Financial statements they prepared for trump are no longer deemed reliable.

Thoughts?

[billisonboard]

They were happy to (to be paid to) prepare the documents with the numbers he gave them. Now there is serious legal scrutiny about those numbers. So they are attempting to wash their hands. Too late?

[pulmonarymd]

Sounds like he is no longer worth the trouble. Question for them is if they tolerated his shenanigans for too long for them to avoid trouble.

[Value Buy]

I believe we already have a thread on this issue. 

[djAdvocate]

guessing that he will have trouble finding a reputable accounting firm that will back him up.

[andi9899]

Nobody is going to touch this guy with a 10 foot pole. He's done for.

[djAdvocate]

i am trying to imagine what would cause an accounting firm to abandon a client.  
it is really BAD for accountants to jump ship.
companies RELY on their accountants to provide LEGAL COVER.
it is part of their tacit or written agreement.

so, yeah, i agree.  not gilding the Lilly here.  this is bad.

[laterbloomer]

I didn't know that accountants could change their mind like that. Doesn't this make them vulnerable to lawsuits from companies that used the statements to make credit decisions based on their previous endorsement?

[djAdvocate]

i think i will have to defer to swamp.

the question is this: does an accounting firms past statements impact PRESENT litigation?

if so, it is hard to fathom why they chose to do this now.

[swamp]

Feb 16, 2022 17:22:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I didn't know that accountants could change their mind like that. Doesn't this make them vulnerable to lawsuits from companies that used the statements to make credit decisions based on their previous endorsement?

If they went on the info provided by the client, I think they would be clear, unless the info provided is so out of whack that it doesn’t pass the laugh test. 

[swamp]

Feb 16, 2022 17:33:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think i will have to defer to swamp.

the question is this: does an accounting firms past statements impact PRESENT litigation?

if so, it is hard to fathom why they chose to do this now.

Yes. Especially if it can be shown the info provided to create the statements is false, and others relied on those statements for providing financing.  In that case, the legal terminology is that you’re fucked. 

[djAdvocate]

i think this firm's position will be like this:

we had no idea how unscrupulous this guy was until recently.
as soon as we found out, we disavowed our previous work,
and disengaged with the client.

[swamp]

That’s exactly their position. I think they’re full of crap. They were happy to take his money until the heat got turned on.

[djAdvocate]

i agree.  this reminds me of Douche Bank.  they were fine laundering Trump's billion dollar real estate portfolio until the US justice department started requesting documents from them.

[swamp]

So, he’s been dropped by Deuchebank, and his accountant said you can’t rely on his financial statements.

What does he do now when that 500,000,000 loan that he personally guaranteed comes due? I think it’s next year?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 16, 2022 17:42:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

So, he’s been dropped by Deuchebank, and his accountant said you can’t rely on his financial statements.

What does he do now when that 500,000,000 loan that he personally guaranteed comes due? I think it’s next year?

an excellent question.
DB has already said they will NOT back it.
and DB is about as far down the food chain as you can go.

he will be left with two options:

1) someone even sharkier than DB (there is ALWAYS someone sharkier).
2) selling the asset (but given that the assets are overstated, it will mean selling MULTIPLE assets).

i would bet he would go for what is behind door #1, even if it imperils him and his family.

[pulmonarymd]

Easy, get the Magidiots to pony up. Isn't that the game he is playing now.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 16, 2022 17:46:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Easy, get the Magidiots to pony up. Isn't that the game he is playing now.

that thought crossed my mind.
the Cult of Trump is certainly large enough to cover it.
he only needs $9 from each voter.

[laterbloomer]

He always wiggles out of these things. I really don't understand how. If the past is anything to go by he'll be golfing rounds at Maralargo while Douche Bank and the accountants go to jail.

[djAdvocate]

as vomit inducing that is, i have to agree.  unfortunately.
he is living proof of the PT Barnum adage.  

[djAdvocate]

half of the amount that is coming due will come from this:


www.8newsnow.com/news/donald-trump-sells-d-c-hotel-for-375-million-deal-expected-to-close-in-early-2022/


he is selling off assets to cover his losses.  this is how the game ends for people like Trump.

[haapai]

Feb 16, 2022 16:31:49 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

guessing that he will have trouble finding a reputable accounting firm that will back him up.

Mazars wasn't backing the Trump Organization up.  They were providing compilation services.  If you have any background in accounting, you know how rudimentary compilation services are.  They ain't audits.  They aren't even reviews.  They are basically taking the info that the company provides and presenting it in documents that look a whole lot like financial statements that have been audited or reviewed but have not been subjected to any such scrutiny. 

Compilation services aren't worth much.  Nobody has checked with third parties to make sure that the picture presented by the client holds a decent amount of water, such as when audit services are provided.  Nobody has made financial officers of the company sign documents to the effect that "I say that this is true to the best of my knowledge", which is a brief synopsis of what the minimum standards of review services entail. 

I didn't even know that there was a procedure for backing away from financial documents that an accounting firm had compiled.  The standards were so damn low to begin with and the disclaimers so copious, that it seems unnecessary to disavow them. 

[laterbloomer]

So exactly who gives the accountants the info they do their compilation with? I don't see Trump doing his own books, so who is he going to blame it on

[djAdvocate]

Feb 16, 2022 18:12:09 GMT -5 haapai said:

Feb 16, 2022 16:31:49 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

guessing that he will have trouble finding a reputable accounting firm that will back him up.

Mazars wasn't backing the Trump Organization up.  They were providing compilation services.  If you have any background in accounting, you know how rudimentary compilation services are.  They ain't audits.  They aren't even reviews.  They are basically taking the info that the company provides and presenting it in documents that look a whole lot like financial statements that have been audited or reviewed but have not been subjected to any such scrutiny. 

Compilation services aren't worth much.  Nobody has checked with third parties to make sure that the picture presented by the client holds a decent amount of water, such as when audit services are provided.  Nobody has made financial officers of the company sign documents to the effect that "I say that this is true to the best of my knowledge", which is a brief synopsis of what the minimum standards of review services entail. 

I didn't even know that there was a procedure for backing away from financial documents that an accounting firm had compiled.  The standards were so damn low to begin with and the disclaimers so copious, that it seems unnecessary to disavow them. 

all of this is true.  HOWEVER.....

there are still a couple layers of service that are provided, even for compilation: INTERNAL and EXTERNAL.  if the statements are for INTERNAL USE only (for purposes of internal financial monitoring) that is objectively different than having an accounting firm approve them for EXTERNAL use (to banks and such).  i have had accounting firms specifically say that their statements are NOT to be used for external purposes.  i presume that was for two reasons:

1) they didn't have any way of verifying our internal numbers, and thus had no way of ensuring accuracy AND
2) they didn't want any bank or other financial institution to develop that impression.

in other words, even reputable COMPILERS will stand behind the numbers to some degree.
and yes, i am quite aware of the difference between unaudited and audited financials.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 16, 2022 18:35:32 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

So exactly who gives the accountants the info they do their compilation with? I don't see Trump doing his own books, so who is he going to blame it on

it varies depending on the organization.  in small organizations like the Trump Organization, it is the CFO.
in larger organizations, it is a bookeeper, "Treasurer", or controller.

[swamp]

Feb 16, 2022 17:54:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

half of the amount that is coming due will come from this:


www.8newsnow.com/news/donald-trump-sells-d-c-hotel-for-375-million-deal-expected-to-close-in-early-2022/


he is selling off assets to cover his losses.  this is how the game ends for people like Trump.

How much if that goes to taxes?  I have no idea if it’s a capital gain, ordinary income, or if somehow he won’t pay taxes on it. 

[swamp]

Feb 16, 2022 18:39:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 16, 2022 18:35:32 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

So exactly who gives the accountants the info they do their compilation with? I don't see Trump doing his own books, so who is he going to blame it on

it varies depending on the organization.  in small organizations like the Trump Organization, it is the CFO.
in larger organizations, it is a bookeeper, "Treasurer", or controller.

So that would be Alan weiselberg.   

Things are not looking good for him. 

[pulmonarymd]

Looks like he is the patsy

[djAdvocate]

Feb 16, 2022 18:45:28 GMT -5 swamp said:

Feb 16, 2022 17:54:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

half of the amount that is coming due will come from this:


www.8newsnow.com/news/donald-trump-sells-d-c-hotel-for-375-million-deal-expected-to-close-in-early-2022/


he is selling off assets to cover his losses.  this is how the game ends for people like Trump.

How much if that goes to taxes?  I have no idea if it’s a capital gain, ordinary income, or if somehow he won’t pay taxes on it. 

probably none.  he had to do $200M in renovations.  it was a requirement of purchase.
how much did he buy it for?  i doubt he paid under $175M for it.
and he lost $70M running it.
that is in the documentary history of the building.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 16, 2022 19:08:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Looks like he is the patsy

in fairness to AW, it is not how he sees himself.
he was Fred's employee, not really Donald's.
given the opportunity, i hope Alan throws DJT
under the bus.  Allan's got his own skin to protect.