pooks
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Post by pooks on Feb 8, 2022 17:02:21 GMT -5
Looking for advice. DH has been working from home for the same company for 8 years, as an exempt employee. Everything was fine until right before Christmas. A supply issue caused the contract he was working on to be shut down, not coming back. Ok, it was Christmas, he took some vacation time and figured he would be reassigned in the new year.
Nothing. For 8 weeks his boss has not assigned him even an hour of work, even though he has asked. I would understand if he was being laid off, but wouldn't someone contact him about that? So for 8 weeks, he has dropped down to enough hours a week vacation to keep the insurance paid.
Should he contact HR or a higher level manager? Is there some labor law being broken? It feels like they just want him to quit, but I don't know why someone isn't being direct.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2022 8:34:52 GMT -5
I don't know if I'd deal with HR. My late husband, whose previous wife was in HR, has always said, "HR is not your friend". I can picture HR trying to get the manager to fire him.
This happened to me in one of my jobs and I was able to manufacture some busywork to look productive but it's not a good feeling and you know that eventually you'll get dumped out in the street. In my case, my boss told me that he could see the functions of my department being absorbed into other departments and suggested I look internally. I actually thanked him for his honesty. Nothing internal worked out but I found another position in the area.
What are his prospects of finding a job elsewhere? And what kind of severance would he get if they let him go?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 9, 2022 8:44:24 GMT -5
Looking for advice. DH has been working from home for the same company for 8 years, as an exempt employee. Everything was fine until right before Christmas. A supply issue caused the contract he was working on to be shut down, not coming back. Ok, it was Christmas, he took some vacation time and figured he would be reassigned in the new year. Nothing. For 8 weeks his boss has not assigned him even an hour of work, even though he has asked. I would understand if he was being laid off, but wouldn't someone contact him about that? So for 8 weeks, he has dropped down to enough hours a week vacation to keep the insurance paid. Should he contact HR or a higher level manager? Is there some labor law being broken? It feels like they just want him to quit, but I don't know why someone isn't being direct. Easy. No paper trail to hurt them in a future lawsuit. What has his boss or boss's boss said to him about the situation?
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nittanycheme
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Post by nittanycheme on Feb 9, 2022 9:45:03 GMT -5
Some people just don't like to be direct, especially about something as uncomfortable as laying off/firing someone. I do know that at least in PA, he could be eligible for partial unemployment if he is getting some pay, but not all of it. I know my mom worked as a bookkeeper in a seasonal business, so she was mostly full time, but a month or so a year it would be part time because there wasn't enough to do and she would get partial unemployment benefits.
I would suggest that your DH reach out to his boss's boss if his boss isn't getting back to him. Or HR. I mean, HR may not necessarily be his friend, but if he was supposed to be furloughed or laid off, and his boss didn't tell him, they would a least know that. It's very strange if this type of situation hasn't happened before. Is it a new boss that may somehow thing he's a contractor and not a full time employee?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 9, 2022 11:28:38 GMT -5
That definitely seems weird. He must not be on the company insurance because then he'd be costing them money.
I definitely think he should be looking for a new job. I'd probably try to call boss or grand boss. Has he spoken to any coworkers? Is it just him?
Sorry, just reread and you addressed that he's using pto to pay for insurance. I'd be blowing up people's phones in that case and double down on job searching.
I'm sorry, the whole thing sucks.
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pooks
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Post by pooks on Feb 9, 2022 11:35:12 GMT -5
Thanks. Prospects for a new job he would like seem good, but it will probably be slow. He was just putting it off, since it most likely will require a move and DD is in college here for another 2 years. The severance is a big question, they are normal in his industry, but I don't know how much.
I was just trying to figure out if it was more likely that they were trying to hold on to him because he is hard to replace or get him to quit so he doesn't get severance. Neither seems right, but I couldn't think of any other explanation.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 9, 2022 11:50:19 GMT -5
Thanks. Prospects for a new job he would like seem good, but it will probably be slow. He was just putting it off, since it most likely will require a move and DD is in college here for another 2 years. The severance is a big question, they are normal in his industry, but I don't know how much. I was just trying to figure out if it was more likely that they were trying to hold on to him because he is hard to replace or get him to quit so he doesn't get severance. Neither seems right, but I couldn't think of any other explanation. My first thought is that they want to keep him, but have budget problems, aren't communicating well so his boss knows there are problems but can't talk about them and is defaulting to ostrich mode. If it's the latter, it seems more like a sitcom plot - to just ignore someone into quitting? Bizarre, but stranger things have happened I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2022 12:29:15 GMT -5
If it's the latter, it seems more like a sitcom plot - to just ignore someone into quitting? Bizarre, but stranger things have happened I guess. No, it happens. My Dad was running a steel plant when it was acquired and he was "demoted" at age 55 or so- I'd never heard of such a thing. He was moved out of his fancy office and given a meaningless title and not much to do. Eventually he did quit but thank heaven, he and Mom had been savers. They moved to Myrtle Beach, bought a house for cash and although Dad's attempt at a second career as a financial advisor failed, they did very well because they were frugal and Dad managed the investments. I learned a lot back then about how "work till you're 70" is not a good retirement plan and why you should live below your means. And, as I noted, the workload in one of my jobs died out gradually. It was a very large and prosperous company so they could ignore it for awhile but I'm pretty sure I would have been a target next time they decided to cut costs.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 9, 2022 13:35:49 GMT -5
Thanks. Prospects for a new job he would like seem good, but it will probably be slow. He was just putting it off, since it most likely will require a move and DD is in college here for another 2 years. The severance is a big question, they are normal in his industry, but I don't know how much. I was just trying to figure out if it was more likely that they were trying to hold on to him because he is hard to replace or get him to quit so he doesn't get severance. Neither seems right, but I couldn't think of any other explanation. My first thought is that they want to keep him, but have budget problems, aren't communicating well so his boss knows there are problems but can't talk about them and is defaulting to ostrich mode. If it's the latter, it seems more like a sitcom plot - to just ignore someone into quitting? Bizarre, but stranger things have happened I guess. This happened to TD at his job before last. He needed 10 hours/week in order to maintain insurance. He was ok with that as he did not want to work full time. Lack of work dropped him below this, and he started getting billed for insurance. After getting hit 3 months for this (I want to say it was $2500 for both of us) he got another job. He warned HR and his boss multiple times that this was not going to work, then when he got another job and gave notice, they were scrambling for ways to keep him there. He really liked the people he was working with and would have liked them to figure this out, but their lack of interest despite being warned wasn’t helping him. Also, he was not going to renege to the company he was hired on at. TBH, if he had stayed I think he would have fallen below 10 hours/week again in a ver6 short t8me.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Feb 9, 2022 14:08:08 GMT -5
Looking for advice. DH has been working from home for the same company for 8 years, as an exempt employee. Everything was fine until right before Christmas. A supply issue caused the contract he was working on to be shut down, not coming back. Ok, it was Christmas, he took some vacation time and figured he would be reassigned in the new year. Nothing. For 8 weeks his boss has not assigned him even an hour of work, even though he has asked. I would understand if he was being laid off, but wouldn't someone contact him about that? So for 8 weeks, he has dropped down to enough hours a week vacation to keep the insurance paid. Should he contact HR or a higher level manager? Is there some labor law being broken? It feels like they just want him to quit, but I don't know why someone isn't being direct. I think I am misunderstanding something. An exempt employee, in my understanding, is salaried. Did they just stop paying his salary until he is "reassigned"? Even if hourly - if he is a full-time employee, can they just not schedule him and not pay? Your later posts referring to severance lead me to believe he is not an hourly ad-hoc, "we'll schedule you whenever we feel like it if at all" type employee. If he is supposed to work 40 hours a week can he just keep showing up (do some admin, clear out electronic file folders, watch a company training video, whatever) until reassigned or someone actually talks to him. I'd do that before burning all PTO.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 9, 2022 14:16:35 GMT -5
Thanks. Prospects for a new job he would like seem good, but it will probably be slow. He was just putting it off, since it most likely will require a move and DD is in college here for another 2 years. The severance is a big question, they are normal in his industry, but I don't know how much. I was just trying to figure out if it was more likely that they were trying to hold on to him because he is hard to replace or get him to quit so he doesn't get severance. Neither seems right, but I couldn't think of any other explanation. My first thought is that they want to keep him, but have budget problems, aren't communicating well so his boss knows there are problems but can't talk about them and is defaulting to ostrich mode. If it's the latter, it seems more like a sitcom plot - to just ignore someone into quitting? Bizarre, but stranger things have happened I guess. Super common in the beginning of my work life in large companies. Similar stuff has happened at other ones too.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Feb 9, 2022 14:21:45 GMT -5
Question -you say that he is an exempt employee. Definition of exempt is that you are paid a salary and exempt from overtime laws. Is he a salaried employee? Is he just using PTO because he feels bad there is no work? It may be that they are wanting him to leave, but if he is salaried, he should still be getting his full salary. If he is hourly or contract that is different.
I had a similar situation working for a government contractor. The government employees were responsible for giving me assignments, they always claimed there was work to do and more coming up, but I could do most of my assignments in 1 hour a day, but I was contracted for 8 hours. Let me tell you the day is so long when you are bored (at least your husband is at home). When I left, they hired a replacement, but I heard she was fired because she couldn’t do the work!
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pooks
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Post by pooks on Feb 9, 2022 15:00:00 GMT -5
Yes he is salary. But he has to fill out a time card and there isn't anything to charge to. He is an engineer, if that helps.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Feb 9, 2022 15:15:03 GMT -5
Can he spend his time beefing up documentation? Cleaning up old issues? Etc? Charging time to a misc category. Such a weird situation. Seems if they want him out, he might as well soak up the pay a few more weeks while job hunting on the side.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Feb 9, 2022 15:17:11 GMT -5
Yes he is salary. But he has to fill out a time card and there isn't anything to charge to. He is an engineer, if that helps. He must have some kind of admin code (for meetings, training, time spent filling out an expense report, something administrative)? If so, charge to that until they find something. He is just allowing them to delay finding something for him by being out of sight/out of mind and not costing them anything. Using up all his PTO is helpful to the balance sheet in fact, and they won't have to pay it out if he's let go. Now, if his goal is to drag out this situation as long as possible while he job hunts, maybe that works for him. But right now it seems like he's making it too easy to ignore or forget about him. He could message his boss and say "I've used up more PTO than I'm comfortable with and I'm eager to get back to work so this week I'm going to clean up old files and charge to XXXX timesheet code - unless you have another project you'd like me to work on" if he's interested in moving this discussion forward.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 9, 2022 16:39:56 GMT -5
Yes he is salary. But he has to fill out a time card and there isn't anything to charge to. He is an engineer, if that helps. This is still confusing... is he submitting a time card every pay period (or weekly) and just "billing" his time to a "non-billable account/project" - like office administration or something? So he's getting paid for his 40 (or 35 hour work week)? Or is he using 40 (or 35 hours of PTO per week)? Or does he only getting paid for the "billable hours" he works and puts on his time card - so 0 pay for 0 billable hours - but he's adding in a couple of days of PTO so he gets paid for some hours?? But that doesn't make much sense if he's salaried... (I will admit - if he doesn't have to use PTO and can just bill 35 or 40 hours to a "non billable project" account and get paid... that kind of sounds like a good thing... not doing much 'work' but getting paid. Or maybe like Milton in Office Space: For most of the movie, Milton is trampled upon by everyone around him. Turns out he was actually laid off five years earlier, but kept receiving paychecks due to a computer glitch.
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pooks
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Post by pooks on Feb 9, 2022 18:23:40 GMT -5
Yes he is salary. But he has to fill out a time card and there isn't anything to charge to. He is an engineer, if that helps. This is still confusing... is he submitting a time card every pay period (or weekly) and just "billing" his time to a "non-billable account/project" - like office administration or something? So he's getting paid for his 40 (or 35 hour work week)? Or is he using 40 (or 35 hours of PTO per week)? Or does he only getting paid for the "billable hours" he works and puts on his time card - so 0 pay for 0 billable hours - but he's adding in a couple of days of PTO so he gets paid for some hours?? But that doesn't make much sense if he's salaried... There aren't any billable hours. There isn't an overhead account and if he doesn't work he doesn't get paid unless he uses PTO, which he is. This is how it has been at every job either of us worked, even though we were salary.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 9, 2022 19:29:19 GMT -5
This is still confusing... is he submitting a time card every pay period (or weekly) and just "billing" his time to a "non-billable account/project" - like office administration or something? So he's getting paid for his 40 (or 35 hour work week)? Or is he using 40 (or 35 hours of PTO per week)? Or does he only getting paid for the "billable hours" he works and puts on his time card - so 0 pay for 0 billable hours - but he's adding in a couple of days of PTO so he gets paid for some hours?? But that doesn't make much sense if he's salaried... There aren't any billable hours. There isn't an overhead account and if he doesn't work he doesn't get paid unless he uses PTO, which he is. This is how it has been at every job either of us worked, even though we were salary. It sounds to me like he is an exempt employee, but not a salaried one. It appears his work is contracted to a certain project, and if that project goes away, there be no $$. This is MO based on NJ state laws as I knew them and what I experienced. As an "employee" of a contracting company, they might put you on the bench if your contract ran out and they thought something might come along in 3 weeks or so. Usually though a contract ending meant unemployment unless you knew in advance when it was ending and could campaign to be on an existing or upcoming project. Your state may be different. I'd recommend reading up on unemployment in your state as he will effectively be unemployed once his PTO runs out.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Feb 9, 2022 20:25:32 GMT -5
He should be talking to his grand boss pronto. I don’t know if they are trying to have him quit or just that disorganized but I would be very concerned.
I was an hourly non-exempt full time employee who got another full time job. I wanted to stay part time per diem with my prior employer and I was also 7 months pregnant. I used pto for like 6 weeks (yes, had that much), then went labor so I couldn’t work for a few months. The part time employer told me I would be “terminated” if I didn’t get back to work ~8 weeks after a csection ( I hadn’t even give back to the full time job yet). I got mad and said, never mind... I’m not coming back.
The fun part? They backdated the end date of my employment to the last physical date I worked and tried to throw me in COBRA, even during the time I was on pto and paying premiums. I had to threaten to report them to the labor dept for them to back off and leave my medical in tact for the time I was on pto ( I had to point out the law doesn’t give them 2+ months to pay out accrued pto, the time between my last physical day and my last check).
I would be afraid of them trying something stupid like that. This was a multinational company and HR were the ones saying this was acceptable. Their position was “you can’t extend employment with pto” The tune only changed when I emailed them (HR) the law and mentioned my state’s labor dept and the fines associated with pulling this junk
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Feb 9, 2022 20:53:25 GMT -5
Looking for advice. DH has been working from home for the same company for 8 years, as an exempt employee. Everything was fine until right before Christmas. A supply issue caused the contract he was working on to be shut down, not coming back. Ok, it was Christmas, he took some vacation time and figured he would be reassigned in the new year. Nothing. For 8 weeks his boss has not assigned him even an hour of work, even though he has asked. I would understand if he was being laid off, but wouldn't someone contact him about that? So for 8 weeks, he has dropped down to enough hours a week vacation to keep the insurance paid. Should he contact HR or a higher level manager? Is there some labor law being broken? It feels like they just want him to quit, but I don't know why someone isn't being direct. Something simply does not add up here. Exempt employees are salaried employees. While you are right that the companies are allowed to not pay salaried employees for hours not spent doing work for the company, your husband's company has him fill out a time card. if he is not assigned to anything at all and not been given a generic project code to use, how exactly is he submitting his timesheet? What is he putting in there? Has he been paid regularly for the last 8 weeks? How is this impacting his benefits like PTO accrual and health insurance? His company can't "make" him quit but not assigning him work. This situation looks more like a a missing link somewhere. And he definitely needs to talk to his boss. Like yesterday.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 9, 2022 21:25:27 GMT -5
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Feb 9, 2022 21:39:20 GMT -5
You are right. I should have “generally” salaried, but they don’t have to be.
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pooks
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Post by pooks on Feb 9, 2022 22:07:46 GMT -5
OK so not salaried, but definitely exempt. I have never known anyone who was truly salary, it seems, and I did payroll for a bit.
Anyway, he talked to his boss's boss's boss's boss (far too many bosses) and we at least have some clarity as to what is going on and what to expect. There isn't any work for him and there won't be any consistent work for the foreseeable future. They are going to try to come up with a day or 2 a week of work so our benefits continue.
Now deciding what to do next
Thank you all. I really appreciate the push.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 10, 2022 6:45:25 GMT -5
I'm glad he inquired and got some clarification. Much better than the unknown, which could mean anything.
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