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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2022 8:42:21 GMT -5
The whole flap about critical race theory and about this book is, I think, a push by the far right to not have to think about ‘unpleasant’ things. Don’t think about how the Southern economy was initially based on slave labor. Pretend the slaves were just farm workers who lived in comfortable cottages - skip over the rape, the beatings, the slave sales, the dehumanization required to keep the black population in check. Skip the trail of tears, Andrew Jackson exterminating the natives so he and his buddies could snap up developed farm properties for basement prices, the Japanese interment camps during WWII, the fact that women were disenfranchised and considered chattel of their fathers or husbands for much of our past. Maus is a reminder of how Christians attempted to wipe out Jews. Somehow, teaching our kids these things happened will make the white kids ‘feel bad’ about themselves, and Americans ‘feel about’ about being American. This is a very dangerous trend, similar, IMHO, to how the Nazis attempted to glorify their pagan Caucasian history in order to justify why they should rule in the 1000 year Reich. Americans SHOULD feel bad about PARTS of their past. that is what history is about. it is ALSO about the good things. and yes, we can teach those side by side. because we are not perfect. and we never will be. and that is ok, if we recognize it, and CONSTANTLY try to improve through memory and refinement. Teaching the truth about history is simply telling the truth. People with integrity tell the truth even when it’s not pretty. Cowards hide behind lies, including lies of omission. History teaches us that human beings can and will do despicable things to other human beings, and what can happen when good people say and do nothing. History also teaches us that human beings can come together and accomplish awe inspiring good things, and that there have always been good souls brave enough to fight for others that are being terrorized, even if their fight was “just” hiding them in their homes to try to help them stay alive and get somewhere safer. Finding out your (general you) great grandfather wasn’t a good man doesn’t say anything about what kind of person you are, and it doesn’t mean you should carry guilt or shame…..unless you’re just like him and ok with that. Maybe that’s why they don’t want the truth taught, so people won’t recognize the same kind of evil in them. When DS moved to Texas, he was shocked and appalled the first time he heard somebody say that slaves came to America for job opportunities. Unfortunately, the first time was not the last time. It boggles my mind that adults would even let that come out of their mouth, to a Black man at that. Neither of us had ever heard anyone say something like that. Is that what they teach in some places?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 31, 2022 9:01:17 GMT -5
As I told someone on Facebook if you are feeling anger and getting defensive over a book to the point where you are thinking about banning it. .. you're probably it's target audience.
When DS moved to Texas, he was shocked and appalled the first time he heard somebody say that slaves came to America for job opportunities
That's a new one for me.
Sometimes I get going in circles with people who insist the Civil War was about state's rights not slavery. Okay the Southern states wanted the right to do what? Southern States wanted to be able to decide for themselves what? Southern states didn't want to be dictated to because their economy depended on ::blank:: which depended on the labor of ::blank:: that the Northern states did not depend on.
Everything comes back to slavery. I don't understand the mental gymnastics involved in convincing yourself it didn't because there is only ONE major difference between Northern and Southern states that was causing the conflict to begin with.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 31, 2022 10:49:54 GMT -5
I cannot post this enough.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 31, 2022 10:55:43 GMT -5
I saw one of Ruby Bridges coming down the stairs of the school and it says 'If she can handle experiencing it you can handle reading about it".
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 31, 2022 11:45:59 GMT -5
I saw one of Ruby Bridges coming down the stairs of the school and it says 'If she can handle experiencing it you can handle reading about it".
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 31, 2022 13:05:48 GMT -5
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Jan 31, 2022 14:24:52 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 1, 2022 9:53:24 GMT -5
Question- did they remove the book (Maus) from the curriculum or did they also remove it from the library - aka - a total ban? I am having trouble finding clarification for that. I even read the school board meeting transcript and I could interpret it either way. The board discussion revolved around the curriculum, so I am thinking it isn’t being removed from the school library.
That said - how many kids will read it if it is not assigned?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 1, 2022 10:28:11 GMT -5
Psst! Hey, kids.”
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 1, 2022 11:22:39 GMT -5
Question- did they remove the book (Maus) from the curriculum or did they also remove it from the library - aka - a total ban? I am having trouble finding clarification for that. I even read the school board meeting transcript and I could interpret it either way. The board discussion revolved around the curriculum, so I am thinking it isn’t being removed from the school library. That said - how many kids will read it if it is not assigned? I'm not sure how big of a library a grammar/middle school would have. This was an eighth grade class assignment.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Feb 1, 2022 12:34:47 GMT -5
Question- did they remove the book (Maus) from the curriculum or did they also remove it from the library - aka - a total ban? I am having trouble finding clarification for that. I even read the school board meeting transcript and I could interpret it either way. The board discussion revolved around the curriculum, so I am thinking it isn’t being removed from the school library. That said - how many kids will read it if it is not assigned? If its not assigned? I'm not really sure, maybe some kids that really love reading. But if its totally banned, that might be a different story. I don't really remember any books being full banned when I was in school (the 90s), although I'm sure there were some. But we didn't have social media to tell us if something was. Kids are kind of rebellious by nature. If you tell them they can't see an R rated move, they are going to try to find a way to watch it. If you tell them they can't read and adult magazine, or watch the nudie channels, they are going to try to the best they can. That said, hopefully a lot of these kids will get their hands on a copy just to see what all of the fuss is about!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 1, 2022 12:56:55 GMT -5
Question- did they remove the book (Maus) from the curriculum or did they also remove it from the library - aka - a total ban? I am having trouble finding clarification for that. I even read the school board meeting transcript and I could interpret it either way. The board discussion revolved around the curriculum, so I am thinking it isn’t being removed from the school library. That said - how many kids will read it if it is not assigned? If its not assigned? I'm not really sure, maybe some kids that really love reading. But if its totally banned, that might be a different story. I don't really remember any books being full banned when I was in school (the 90s), although I'm sure there were some. But we didn't have social media to tell us if something was. Kids are kind of rebellious by nature. If you tell them they can't see an R rated move, they are going to try to find a way to watch it. If you tell them they can't read and adult magazine, or watch the nudie channels, they are going to try to the best they can. That said, hopefully a lot of these kids will get their hands on a copy just to see what all of the fuss is about! Read an article this morning which noted a bookstore owner said he would sent a free book of Mous to every McMinn County school student who asked for one.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 1, 2022 13:21:33 GMT -5
I was born in '51. At the age of ten a Catholic school classmate of mine whose ancestors came to the U.S. years earlier from Germany got a great kick out of telling us how the Nazis made soap out of the bodies of Jews along with telling us with great glee about the lampshades made from the skins of Jews. We were ten years old. It's never too soon to learn about the Holocaust. Sometimes it is uncomfortable. And well it should be. Eighth graders should know about the Holocaust in all its horror. I don't see this particular book as an appropriate part of the curriculum for that age group. It seems it would be great at the junior/senior level of high school. Eighth grade IS high school in Canada. Kids in high school know all about nudity, swearing and sex. When I first heard about this, I thought it was about 3rd or 4th grade. But EIGHTH? C'mon!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 1, 2022 13:37:18 GMT -5
If kids are old enough to watch the news, with marchers holding up Nazi flags and screaming 'JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!', they're old enough to read Maus.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 1, 2022 13:49:50 GMT -5
If kids are old enough to watch the news, with marchers holding up Nazi flags and screaming 'JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!', they're old enough to read Maus. For which Maus is designed to warn us against and remind us what happens when these people start organizing. Which is why conservatives don't want our kids reading. Remember those were "very fine gentlemen" according to Trump. Can't have a book pointing out what a horrifying display of white power that was can we? I haven't read it but flipping through some of the pages online I think Maus is actually an excellent tool for making that connection. A graphic novel connects both words and pictures so no matter your reading ability or how you think you'll be able to make the connection between page and current events. If the children who lived it can have the courage to keep telling their tale I think children today are more than capable of handling seeing a pair of mouse boobs in a book about the Holocaust from the safety of their classroom.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 1, 2022 18:09:23 GMT -5
I may join the book burning event. The Christian Bible is full of violence and sex. Toss it into the fire. Right-Wing Pastor Greg Locke Organizes 'Massive' Book BurningA controversial pastor is planning a "massive burning" of Harry Potter and Twilight books, as well as other items, in Tennessee. Global Vision Bible Church pastor Greg Locke was met with cries of approval on Sunday when he declared there would be a "burning service" this week. Locke, who operates out of Mt. Juliet near Nashville, told them to bring Ouija boards, which he called a "portal to hell," and other items he said were associated with witchcraft. He then doubled down on his comments in a Monday Facebook post, where he declared the burning would be part of a "continued series on deliverance from demons." The post read: "We have stuff coming in from all over that we will be burning. We're not playing games. Witchcraft and accursed things must go." Locke then justified the event by referring to Acts 19, a Biblical chapter that deals with recent converts to Christianity renouncing their past, including by burning scrolls relating to sorcery. His Facebook post continued: "Ring all your Harry Potter stuff. Laugh all you will haters. I don't care. It's witchcraft 100 percent. "All your "Twilight" books and movies. That mess is full of spells, demonism, shape-shifting and occultism. Bring tarot cards, ouija birds, healing crystals, idol statues, spell books and everything else tied to the occult. It's got to go. "If you think we're crazy, then scroll on. We're exposing the Kingdom of Darkness for what it is. It's time for people to be delivered." The statement concluded: "We will not tolerate witchcraft and we will not be compromising with devil worshippers. "Everyone is welcome, but this is Global Vision and we don't do things like the church down the road or the one you grew up in. "We can't unsee the miracles that are happening around us. It's time to break covenant with the devil and grow in the Lord. Get there early. It's going to be absolutely amazing." Newsweek has contacted Global Vision Bible Church and numerous churches in the Nashville area for comment. Pastor Locke has pushed COVID-19 misinformation and previously branded the pandemic as "fake." He also discouraged his supporters from getting inoculated against the virus during his sermons. He has embraced debunked conspiracy theories related to the 2020 Presidential Election and insisted Joe Biden was not legitimately voted in. While Locke has been an avid supporter of Donald Trump, he previously declared the former president would lose support over his endorsement of the COVID-19 vaccine. Right-Wing Pastor Greg Locke Organizes 'Massive' Book Burning
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 1, 2022 18:17:31 GMT -5
Well he wants to burn Twilight so he's not all bad.😆
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 1, 2022 20:28:03 GMT -5
Eighth graders should know about the Holocaust in all its horror. I don't see this particular book as an appropriate part of the curriculum for that age group. It seems it would be great at the junior/senior level of high school. Eighth grade IS high school in Canada. Kids in high school know all about nudity, swearing and sex. When I first heard about this, I thought it was about 3rd or 4th grade. But EIGHTH? C'mon! Fully agree on tits, fuck, and fucking. Fully agree on teaching about the Holocaust. I think that Spiegelman's full artistry as used in his telling of his story could be better appreciated by a more mature mind than the average 13/14 year old person possesses.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 2, 2022 11:49:24 GMT -5
Burning Harry Potter books? That’s so 2000.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 2, 2022 12:06:13 GMT -5
If its not assigned? I'm not really sure, maybe some kids that really love reading. But if its totally banned, that might be a different story. I don't really remember any books being full banned when I was in school (the 90s), although I'm sure there were some. But we didn't have social media to tell us if something was. Kids are kind of rebellious by nature. If you tell them they can't see an R rated move, they are going to try to find a way to watch it. If you tell them they can't read and adult magazine, or watch the nudie channels, they are going to try to the best they can. That said, hopefully a lot of these kids will get their hands on a copy just to see what all of the fuss is about! Read an article this morning which noted a bookstore owner said he would sent a free book of Maus to every McMinn County school student who asked for one. Store owner offers to send free copies of 'Maus' to families in county where it is bannedbookstore owner is offering to send free copies of "Maus" to families residing in the Tennessee county where the Holocaust-themed graphic novel has been banned. Ryan Higgins, the owner of the Comics Conspiracy store in Sunnyvale, Calif., announced on Twitter last week that he would donate up to 100 copies of "The Complete Maus" to any family in McMinn County, where a school board voted last month to remove the Pulitzer Prize-winning book from an eighth grade language arts curriculum. Rest of article here: Store owner offers to send free copies of 'Maus' to families in county where it is banned
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Feb 2, 2022 12:07:29 GMT -5
Burning Harry Potter books? That’s so 2000. Not to mention that there are 7 movies you can watch! Are they going to ban the movies as well? Same with Twilight..
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 2, 2022 12:10:17 GMT -5
Burning Harry Potter books? That’s so 2000. Not to mention that there are 7 movies you can watch! Are they going to ban the movies as well? Same with Twilight.. Same with the Left Behind books and movies.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 2, 2022 12:23:05 GMT -5
Book Bans Are Targeting the History of OppressionThe possibility of a more just future is at stake when young people are denied access to knowledge of the past. The instinct to ban books in schools seems to come from a desire to protect children from things that the adults doing the banning find upsetting or offensive. These adults often seem unable to see beyond harsh language or gruesome imagery to the books’ educational and artistic value, or to recognize that language and imagery may be integral to showing the harsh, gruesome truths of the books’ subjects. That appears to be what’s happening with Art Spiegelman’s Maus—a Pulitzer Prize–winning graphic-novel series about the author’s father’s experience of the Holocaust that a Tennessee school board recently pulled from an eighth-grade language-arts curriculum, citing the books’ inappropriate language and nudity. The Maus case is one of the latest in a series of school book bans targeting books that teach the history of oppression. So far during this school year alone, districts across the U.S. have banned many anti-racist instructional materials as well as best-selling and award-winning books that tackle themes of racism and imperialism. For example, Ijeoma Oluo’s So You Want to Talk About Race was pulled by a Pennsylvania school board, along with other resources intended to teach students about diversity, for being “too divisive,” according to the York Dispatch. (The decision was later reversed.) Nobel Prize–winning author Toni Morrison’s book The Bluest Eye, about the effects of racism on a young Black girl’s self-image, has recently been removed from shelves in school districts in Missouri and Florida (the latter of which also banned her book Beloved). What these bans are doing is censoring young people’s ability to learn about historical and ongoing injustices. For decades, U.S. classrooms and education policy have incorporated the teaching of Holocaust literature and survivor testimonies, the goal being to “never forget.” Maus is not the only book about the Holocaust to get caught up in recent debates on curriculum materials. In October, a Texas school-district administrator invoked a law that requires teachers to present opposing viewpoints to “widely debated and currently controversial issues,” instructing teachers to present opposing views about the Holocaust in their classrooms. Books such as Lois Lowry’s Number the Stars, a Newbery Medal winner about a young Jewish girl hiding from the Nazis to avoid being taken to a concentration camp, and Anne Frank’s The Diary of a Young Girl have been flagged as inappropriate in the past, for language and sexual content. But perhaps no one foresaw a day when it would be suggested that there could be a valid opposing view of the Holocaust. In the Tennessee debate over Maus, one school-board member was quoted as saying, “It shows people hanging, it shows them killing kids, why does the educational system promote this kind of stuff? It is not wise or healthy.” This is a familiar argument from those who seek to keep young people from reading about history’s horrors. But children, especially children of color and those who are members of ethnic minorities, were not sheltered or spared from these horrors when they happened. What’s more, the sanitization of history in the name of shielding children assumes, incorrectly, that today’s students are untouched by oppression, imprisonment, death, or racial and ethnic profiling. (For example, Tennessee has been a site of controversy in recent years for incarcerating children as young as 7 and disrupting the lives of undocumented youth.) Rest of article here: Book Bans Are Targeting the History of Oppression
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 2, 2022 12:45:11 GMT -5
In the Tennessee debate over Maus, one school-board member was quoted as saying, “It shows people hanging, it shows them killing kids, why does the educational system promote this kind of stuff? It is not wise or healthy."
That is what kills me about the whole thing.
Maus is unhealthy but the message that Trump, Greene, Gatez, DeSantis, Cruz, pretty much the entire Republican party is promoting is wise and healthy? Seeing a sea of Trump supporters trying to overthrow our government and chanting to hang our VP and House Speaker was "wise and healthy"?
Seeing people march chanting "Jews will not replace us" was wise and healthy?
Teaching children you don't ever have to question your beliefs, thoughts or actions if it makes you feel "icky" is wise and healthy?
Yes it's the fucking nudity in a graphic novel about the holocaust that is destroying the fabric of society and our children must be protected from. That and Minnie Mouse wearing a pants suit.
Did the aliens decide this is sweeps week? Did they put something in our water so they could generate better ratings and avoid the Earth being canceled?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 2, 2022 14:48:27 GMT -5
Americans SHOULD feel bad about PARTS of their past. that is what history is about. it is ALSO about the good things. and yes, we can teach those side by side. because we are not perfect. and we never will be. and that is ok, if we recognize it, and CONSTANTLY try to improve through memory and refinement. Teaching the truth about history is simply telling the truth. People with integrity tell the truth even when it’s not pretty. Cowards hide behind lies, including lies of omission. History teaches us that human beings can and will do despicable things to other human beings, and what can happen when good people say and do nothing. History also teaches us that human beings can come together and accomplish awe inspiring good things, and that there have always been good souls brave enough to fight for others that are being terrorized, even if their fight was “just” hiding them in their homes to try to help them stay alive and get somewhere safer. Finding out your (general you) great grandfather wasn’t a good man doesn’t say anything about what kind of person you are, and it doesn’t mean you should carry guilt or shame…..unless you’re just like him and ok with that. Maybe that’s why they don’t want the truth taught, so people won’t recognize the same kind of evil in them. When DS moved to Texas, he was shocked and appalled the first time he heard somebody say that slaves came to America for job opportunities. Unfortunately, the first time was not the last time. It boggles my mind that adults would even let that come out of their mouth, to a Black man at that. Neither of us had ever heard anyone say something like that. Is that what they teach in some places? that is what bigots teach their kids.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 3, 2022 12:13:42 GMT -5
In the Tennessee debate over Maus, one school-board member was quoted as saying, “It shows people hanging, it shows them killing kids, why does the educational system promote this kind of stuff? It is not wise or healthy."That is what kills me about the whole thing. Maus is unhealthy but the message that Trump, Greene, Gatez, DeSantis, Cruz, pretty much the entire Republican party is promoting is wise and healthy? Seeing a sea of Trump supporters trying to overthrow our government and chanting to hang our VP and House Speaker was "wise and healthy"? The people supporting the removal of certain books are the same ones that post constant memes saying "Kids today are so weak", "Back in my day, we weren't so sheltered" and "I got regularly whupped and it was a good thing." And then they turn around and say "Reading an accurate account of history will be devastating to our children." 😒
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 4, 2022 14:15:20 GMT -5
Eighth graders should know about the Holocaust in all its horror. I don't see this particular book as an appropriate part of the curriculum for that age group. It seems it would be great at the junior/senior level of high school. Eighth grade IS high school in Canada. Kids in high school know all about nudity, swearing and sex. When I first heard about this, I thought it was about 3rd or 4th grade. But EIGHTH? C'mon! the US is oddly puritanical.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 4, 2022 14:59:42 GMT -5
Eighth grade IS high school in Canada. Kids in high school know all about nudity, swearing and sex. When I first heard about this, I thought it was about 3rd or 4th grade. But EIGHTH? C'mon! the US is oddly puritanical. Nothing odd about it. The US is a very religious country.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 4, 2022 19:58:24 GMT -5
Eighth grade IS high school in Canada. Kids in high school know all about nudity, swearing and sex. When I first heard about this, I thought it was about 3rd or 4th grade. But EIGHTH? C'mon! the US is oddly puritanical. 8th graders in the US that have been in public school know all the words and nudity and a metric shit ton of violence and all the other taboo things - it is just that some kids have to hide that from their parents. These assholes are lying to themselves if they think a cartoon drawing of a naked mouse/woman will be a horror to an 8th grader. And if they pull the "suicide" excuse, I would like to know every PG13 movie their kids have seen. I suspect they have witnessed 2,500 fictional deaths in their lifetime. Why is this one particular death so unacceptable? Because....reasons.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Feb 5, 2022 7:42:53 GMT -5
I don't know your grading systems.... and I haven't seen this book..... but we wouldn't be showing dead bodies to children.
unless it was part of an exam group in history ages (14-16) and (16-18)
We do cover the Holocaust for the younger ones for - Citizenship, English and History There are general outlines of what happened.... Interviews with survivors and educationally approved Historians. Anne Frank.
.....We give them a card with a child victim's name/age on it... and ask then to imagine what that child's life would be like, there is Holocaust Memorial Day and workshops to go with it.
So yes..... we cover it in an age appropriate way.
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