Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 20, 2021 19:13:25 GMT -5
A friend of ours called Paypal regarding an email about a refund. It wasn't Paypal, so whomever it was emptied Friend's checking account. Apparently, Friend has no emergency fund. The bank is covering some of it, and his employer is fronting him money. My supposition is this theft took place right after Friend's pay check was deposited.
Thoughts that I can't share with the friend:
- If you've given someone access to your account, is it really "theft"?
- More reasons to keep an emergency fund in a separate account! Friend is a few years older than I am; how does he keep all of his money in his checking account?!?!?!?!?!
- Would your employer give you money in this circumstance?
- How do you justify giving someone your actual account number? I have Paypal attached to a Chase Visa.
What thoughts do you have?
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Dec 20, 2021 19:27:46 GMT -5
I quit using Paypal because they kept defaulting my account to my checking account instead of my credit card. I'd change it and save the update and then have it reverse the change for some reason.
None of my employers would front money. I can't imagine even asking for that.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Dec 20, 2021 19:28:12 GMT -5
I dumped PayPal a few years ago, right after a friend's PayPal account was hacked to the tune of a few thousand dollars. She got it back, but it was scary enough that after a while I realized I used PayPal so little that it wasn't worth the concern about hacking and theft.
When I left my last job I got a payout for my unused vacation time, and it was all deposited into my checking account. While trying to figure out what to do with it, and while waiting for my pension to be finalized and start flowing, I kept too much money in my checking account. Then two credit cards were used fraudulently at a time when I was on a long distance car trip. The two cards were NOT used on the trip, and were not issued by the same company, but within 24 hours I got notices from both companies about the fraud. I immediately transferred the excess money from my checking. I didn't care to find out if that would be next.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 20, 2021 19:44:29 GMT -5
A friend of ours called Paypal regarding an email about a refund. It wasn't Paypal, so whomever it was emptied Friend's checking account. Apparently, Friend has no emergency fund. The bank is covering some of it, and his employer is fronting him money. My supposition is this theft took place right after Friend's pay check was deposited.
Thoughts that I can't share with the friend:
- If you've given someone access to your account, is it really "theft"?
- More reasons to keep an emergency fund in a separate account! Friend is a few years older than I am; how does he keep all of his money in his checking account?!?!?!?!?!
- Would your employer give you money in this circumstance?
- How do you justify giving someone your actual account number? I have Paypal attached to a Chase Visa.
What thoughts do you have? She called the number in the email instead of finding how to contact PayPal via their website?
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 20, 2021 19:49:32 GMT -5
A friend of ours called Paypal regarding an email about a refund. It wasn't Paypal, so whomever it was emptied Friend's checking account. Apparently, Friend has no emergency fund. The bank is covering some of it, and his employer is fronting him money. My supposition is this theft took place right after Friend's pay check was deposited.
Thoughts that I can't share with the friend:
- If you've given someone access to your account, is it really "theft"?
- More reasons to keep an emergency fund in a separate account! Friend is a few years older than I am; how does he keep all of his money in his checking account?!?!?!?!?!
- Would your employer give you money in this circumstance?
- How do you justify giving someone your actual account number? I have Paypal attached to a Chase Visa.
What thoughts do you have? She called the number in the email instead of finding how to contact PayPal via their website? Correct.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 20:31:56 GMT -5
I was looking for something in my Spam folder today and was really surprised at the number of scams out there. I've won gift cards, I may be eligible for a settlement for victims of Paraquat, Round-Up, clergy abuse, my anti-virus program has expired and will be automatically renewed for $352.65... I have to admit I'm impressed at how much crap never reached me. It's sad when they find someone gullible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 20:36:42 GMT -5
I don't use PayPal.
One time a PayPal credit card was opened with all of my information. When I got the credit card statement in the mail I called them right away and they cancelled everything.
A few years later I tried using PayPal again, and my credit card was hacked.
I don't understand what people do to prevent things like this from happening. Both times I was using PayPal on Ebay.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Dec 20, 2021 20:37:10 GMT -5
Paypal has been very useful, and it is my preferred mode of online payment for most purchases. However, I was never comfortable linking it to my main checking account or to a savings account with a significant balance. So, I opened a separate savings account early on to be used with my Paypal account. I keep only the minimum amount in that account required to avoid fees. If someone can get to it through Paypal, they're only going to get about $1000. I also have a separate, low-balance checking account that I have linked to Paypal since having that account linked as well facilitates transferring money from my main accounts. It didn't really take much effort to set up and provides a measure of peace of mind. I swap out the credit cards I have linked to Paypal periodically, though I have no idea whether that provides any benefit in terms of increased security. It is likely not possible to eliminate all risk in using Paypal, so my goal was to ensure that any potential loss would be relatively small.
It sounds like your friend didn't understand that he should never use the contact information from an email or provide account or identification information in response to an unsolicited communication. I don't understand the all eggs/one basket thing, either. I hope he is able to get all of his money back. He's fortunate that his employer is willing to help out. My employer certainly would not have done so.
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jeffreymo
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Post by jeffreymo on Dec 20, 2021 20:38:51 GMT -5
I also only store a credit card with PayPal. About once a year I use PayPal and forget that it’s linked to a cc and not my checking - which is obvious when the total transaction is a few dollars more to account for the fee.
I’d still consider it theft since fraud is involved. I couldn’t imagine telling anyone other than the police. I would be too embarrassed. I couldn’t imagine asking my employer for a loan.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 20, 2021 21:19:09 GMT -5
I was looking for something in my Spam folder today and was really surprised at the number of scams out there. I've won gift cards, I may be eligible for a settlement for victims of Paraquat, Round-Up, clergy abuse, my anti-virus program has expired and will be automatically renewed for $352.65... I have to admit I'm impressed at how much crap never reached me. It's sad when they find someone gullible. I usually have more mail in my spam folder than regular email folder. I get the same ones along with tons of take our survey and we'll send you mega bucks. They look so real to some people I guess. Heck, Amazon has warned me about fraud on my account. I don't even have an account. There is so much info out there about these scams you almost wonder how someone falls for them but then I look at most stuff with a slightly jaded eye anyway!
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Dec 20, 2021 21:27:31 GMT -5
I have never used PayPal & never intend to either. I've only purchased a couple things on eBay & those weren't as advertised when I received them....so I don't use eBay either. I've done just find finding what I need and/or want at other locations.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Dec 20, 2021 21:32:54 GMT -5
A long long ago BF owed me a significant amount of money. One scam was he wanted me to open a paypal account in my name only. He would have credited the money then reversed it just like he did with my checking account. A real white collar criminal beyond ones we already hear about in the news. Edit: To add salt to the continuing wound, he would laugh about me not being able to hold onto my money. This comment usually came from a nonfriend.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Dec 20, 2021 22:07:59 GMT -5
I've noticed more and more shopping sites will let you check out using the same mode of payment you used the last time you shopped. You don't have choose or enter a CC number or choose to pay with paypal.
I just bought cat food at Chewy and when I went to check out - once I reviewed what was in my cart and said I was ready to check out - bam! it charged my credit card (that I used 4 months ago!) and I was done. I was like wait... what the heck just happened? I removed my account info from Chewy.
Amazon does that too. And so do several other sites.
I was appalled that Paypal just accepted the charge without asking me which account I wanted to use when I bought something online - it pulled money from my checking account! and I didn't want to do that - I thought it would let me choose a credit card or a checking account.
I deleted all my accounts linked to my paypal account - and just left one credit card attached to it.
I also updated Amazon. It's really HARD to sign out of your Amazon account... which means if you leave it open - the next time you go to it from your PC - it signs you back in... and with that 1 click check out... anyone who had access to my PC ALSO has access to spending my money on Amazon! I put an end to that ASAP.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Dec 20, 2021 22:10:57 GMT -5
I have started getting calls from Robo Lady telling me to verify that a 1,028.45 purchase via Amazon account is legitimate by pressing 1. The second call for $999.87 dollars a few days later.
I'm not sure what happens if you press 1 - but I did check my Amazon account and there was no activity on it other than mine.
I'm guessing a lot of people might get taken in by that scam.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Dec 21, 2021 0:00:27 GMT -5
I have all kinds of money coming into Venmo and CashApp in my email spam folder.
I know I am behind the times because my office keeps wanting to do fundraisers/gift collections via Zelle or Venmo and I refuse to participate unless I can just mail them a check. So I didn't donate to the Thanksgiving or Christmas adopt-a-family thing at work this year. I imagine someday I will have to sign up with one of the cash transfer services (just like I eventually had to get a smart phone), but for now I am resisting.
If for some reason I lost all my money and couldn't pay my bills, my work would give me an advance on my paycheck. I would have to fill out a form and declare what my emergency was (mortgage/electric/etc.), and HR would review it to made a decision on the advance. They also have started letting people cash in vacation time for emergencies, with a similar form and criteria for the emergency.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Dec 21, 2021 4:22:09 GMT -5
I've noticed more and more shopping sites will let you check out using the same mode of payment you used the last time you shopped. You don't have choose or enter a CC number or choose to pay with paypal. I just bought cat food at Chewy and when I went to check out - once I reviewed what was in my cart and said I was ready to check out - bam! it charged my credit card (that I used 4 months ago!) and I was done. I was like wait... what the heck just happened? I removed my account info from Chewy. Amazon does that too. And so do several other sites. I was appalled that Paypal just accepted the charge without asking me which account I wanted to use when I bought something online - it pulled money from my checking account! and I didn't want to do that - I thought it would let me choose a credit card or a checking account. I deleted all my accounts linked to my paypal account - and just left one credit card attached to it. I also updated Amazon. It's really HARD to sign out of your Amazon account... which means if you leave it open - the next time you go to it from your PC - it signs you back in... and with that 1 click check out... anyone who had access to my PC ALSO has access to spending my money on Amazon! I put an end to that ASAP. That pissed me off when I first noticed that. So, now when I order from them, when I get the email that they have shipped I sign back in and remove the payment method I use.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Dec 21, 2021 8:33:42 GMT -5
If the Friend called the phone number in the email...
The first rule of defeating any phishing scam is to seek out the entity itself and contact them that way i.e. go directly to the website for the phone number.
Sounds like more people would benefit from a subscription to AARP newsletters because they run articles about scam pretty regularly: how to avoid computer hacking, how to avoid catfish money scams, how to deal with the phone calls that sound like your grandchild is in jail, etc. And when I say pretty regularly, I feel like either the newsletter and the magazine will run them alternately.
As for websites using your last method of payment...you definitely got to check for the boxes being checked that say "store my payment method".
I've used PayPal for more than a decade and have never experienced any theft.
I usually get hit by using gas stations while I'm traveling in different states. Even when I pay inside--I've learned to never pay at the pump--they sometimes get me.
Honestly, credit card fraud just feels like something to accept. Like, hackers and scammers are so good, it's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time, no matter how diligent you are.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Dec 21, 2021 8:49:12 GMT -5
If the Friend called the phone number in the email... The first rule of defeating any phishing scam is to seek out the entity itself and contact them that way i.e. go directly to the website for the phone number. Sounds like more people would benefit from a subscription to AARP newsletters because they run articles about scam pretty regularly: how to avoid computer hacking, how to avoid catfish money scams, how to deal with the phone calls that sound like your grandchild is in jail, etc. And when I say pretty regularly, I feel like either the newsletter and the magazine will run them alternately. As for websites using your last method of payment...you definitely got to check for the boxes being checked that say "store my payment method".I've used PayPal for more than a decade and have never experienced any theft. I usually get hit by using gas stations while I'm traveling in different states. Even when I pay inside--I've learned to never pay at the pump--they sometimes get me. Honestly, credit card fraud just feels like something to accept. Like, hackers and scammers are so good, it's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time, no matter how diligent you are. Chewy does not have this option. I remember looking when I found out they keep it. Hence the need to go back and delete the card from my account when I get shipped notification.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 21, 2021 8:58:40 GMT -5
If the Friend called the phone number in the email... The first rule of defeating any phishing scam is to seek out the entity itself and contact them that way i.e. go directly to the website for the phone number. Sounds like more people would benefit from a subscription to AARP newsletters because they run articles about scam pretty regularly: how to avoid computer hacking, how to avoid catfish money scams, how to deal with the phone calls that sound like your grandchild is in jail, etc. And when I say pretty regularly, I feel like either the newsletter and the magazine will run them alternately. As for websites using your last method of payment...you definitely got to check for the boxes being checked that say "store my payment method". I've used PayPal for more than a decade and have never experienced any theft. I usually get hit by using gas stations while I'm traveling in different states. Even when I pay inside--I've learned to never pay at the pump--they sometimes get me. Honestly, credit card fraud just feels like something to accept. Like, hackers and scammers are so good, it's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time, no matter how diligent you are. I pay by cash at gas stations most of the time because of cc theft issues. I haven't been hit there, but why risk it?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 21, 2021 9:11:19 GMT -5
I've noticed more and more shopping sites will let you check out using the same mode of payment you used the last time you shopped. You don't have choose or enter a CC number or choose to pay with paypal. I just bought cat food at Chewy and when I went to check out - once I reviewed what was in my cart and said I was ready to check out - bam! it charged my credit card (that I used 4 months ago!) and I was done. I was like wait... what the heck just happened? I removed my account info from Chewy. Amazon does that too. And so do several other sites. I was appalled that Paypal just accepted the charge without asking me which account I wanted to use when I bought something online - it pulled money from my checking account! and I didn't want to do that - I thought it would let me choose a credit card or a checking account. I deleted all my accounts linked to my paypal account - and just left one credit card attached to it. I also updated Amazon. It's really HARD to sign out of your Amazon account... which means if you leave it open - the next time you go to it from your PC - it signs you back in... and with that 1 click check out... anyone who had access to my PC ALSO has access to spending my money on Amazon! I put an end to that ASAP. I think many websites do that as part of their "service". It is one of the reasons I don't want to create an account for everywhere I shop. I prefer to check out as a guest. Less hassle, no PWs to remember or store, plus hopefully less tracking too.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 21, 2021 9:11:59 GMT -5
If the Friend called the phone number in the email... The first rule of defeating any phishing scam is to seek out the entity itself and contact them that way i.e. go directly to the website for the phone number. Sounds like more people would benefit from a subscription to AARP newsletters because they run articles about scam pretty regularly: how to avoid computer hacking, how to avoid catfish money scams, how to deal with the phone calls that sound like your grandchild is in jail, etc. And when I say pretty regularly, I feel like either the newsletter and the magazine will run them alternately. As for websites using your last method of payment...you definitely got to check for the boxes being checked that say "store my payment method".I've used PayPal for more than a decade and have never experienced any theft. I usually get hit by using gas stations while I'm traveling in different states. Even when I pay inside--I've learned to never pay at the pump--they sometimes get me. Honestly, credit card fraud just feels like something to accept. Like, hackers and scammers are so good, it's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time, no matter how diligent you are. Chewy does not have this option. I remember looking when I found out they keep it. Hence the need to go back and delete the card from my account when I get shipped notification. Do you order as needed or do you have recurring shipments set up?
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 21, 2021 9:19:42 GMT -5
I have used Paypal since about the year 2000. Never had any issues and, yes, I get all kinds of emails in email addresses that have never been attached to it. If I hover over the sent email, it didn't come from Paypal. My Paypal has 2FA on it, so it's as safe as all my other accounts with 2FA.
The newer apps like Venmo, etc. are also attached to a bank account.
I have never had problems when I travel and pay at the pump. I always get a receipt.
I have Chewy set up to pay for the autoships. I know which card it is charging and change it if I want to.
I finally figured out how to sign out of Amazon, but no one else uses my computer unless the cats decide to go shopping.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Dec 21, 2021 9:30:14 GMT -5
Chewy does not have this option. I remember looking when I found out they keep it. Hence the need to go back and delete the card from my account when I get shipped notification. Do you order as needed or do you have recurring shipments set up? I order as needed.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Dec 21, 2021 9:48:06 GMT -5
Paypal has been very useful, and it is my preferred mode of online payment for most purchases. However, I was never comfortable linking it to my main checking account or to a savings account with a significant balance. So, I opened a separate savings account early on to be used with my Paypal account. I keep only the minimum amount in that account required to avoid fees. If someone can get to it through Paypal, they're only going to get about $1000. I also have a separate, low-balance checking account that I have linked to Paypal since having that account linked as well facilitates transferring money from my main accounts. It didn't really take much effort to set up and provides a measure of peace of mind. I swap out the credit cards I have linked to Paypal periodically, though I have no idea whether that provides any benefit in terms of increased security. It is likely not possible to eliminate all risk in using Paypal, so my goal was to ensure that any potential loss would be relatively small. It sounds like your friend didn't understand that he should never use the contact information from an email or provide account or identification information in response to an unsolicited communication. I don't understand the all eggs/one basket thing, either. I hope he is able to get all of his money back. He's fortunate that his employer is willing to help out. My employer certainly would not have done so. this. I opened a separate checking account, with a completely different bank, when I started using a cell phone wallet case. I've got one CC and this account's debit Discover card in the wallet. this Discover is what I linked to PayPal, my gas account (since deleted) and a couple other things that required a bank account to use. there's never more than about $500 in that account, by design.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 10:12:05 GMT -5
I opened a separate checking account, with a completely different bank, when I started using a cell phone wallet case. I've got one CC and this account's debit Discover card in the wallet. this Discover is what I linked to PayPal, my gas account (since deleted) and a couple other things that required a bank account to use. there's never more than about $500 in that account, by design. I need to do this. I have a PayPal account that I rarely use but I want to keep it open for the rare occasions when I sell something on e-Bay. I keep a pretty large balance in my checking account because it includes "reserves" for occasional large expenses such as insurance, property taxes, etc. Now that I think of it, when I worked for Prudential they might have had a process for asking for advance pay. I never used it although I did take out a 401(k) loan when funds got short during my first marriage.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 21, 2021 10:17:19 GMT -5
Do you order as needed or do you have recurring shipments set up? I order as needed. I currently have recurring shipments to not forget and to have the slight discount. The biggest issue is they lock your order about two weeks before it ships, so you can't change it. Recently I moved a ship date up, but that's about it. Prices for skinny pigs supplies are pricey locally except for emergency KayTee Hay. I need to get pellets soon, and because of reviews concerning breakage I usually by locally even though it is a bit more.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Dec 21, 2021 10:25:00 GMT -5
A friend of ours called Paypal regarding an email about a refund. It wasn't Paypal, so whomever it was emptied Friend's checking account. Apparently, Friend has no emergency fund. The bank is covering some of it, and his employer is fronting him money. My supposition is this theft took place right after Friend's pay check was deposited.
Thoughts that I can't share with the friend:
- If you've given someone access to your account, is it really "theft"?
- More reasons to keep an emergency fund in a separate account! Friend is a few years older than I am; how does he keep all of his money in his checking account?!?!?!?!?!
- Would your employer give you money in this circumstance?
- How do you justify giving someone your actual account number? I have Paypal attached to a Chase Visa.
What thoughts do you have? For your first question, yes it's definitely still theft. Their targets are people who are drawn in easily and/or lack a certain amount of skepticism. It's more surprising when it's someone we deem less susceptible, but it sounds like your friend is lacking in some basic money smarts so maybe not that surprising? My job would help me out, but I'd be mortified to ask for it. I use PayPal and venmo and love them. I paid the a painter and appliance repair person with venmo this year. So much easier than waiting for the bill and writing a check. My handyman is a hold out, but he just calls with what I owe him, and will drive to my house to get the check. I think I'm pretty smart and careful with each, but lucky so far too.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Dec 21, 2021 10:38:11 GMT -5
I currently have recurring shipments to not forget and to have the slight discount. The biggest issue is they lock your order about two weeks before it ships, so you can't change it. Recently I moved a ship date up, but that's about it. Prices for skinny pigs supplies are pricey locally except for emergency KayTee Hay. I need to get pellets soon, and because of reviews concerning breakage I usually by locally even though it is a bit more. I prefer to order on my own terms rather than letting another entity decide when I need something. I keep 2 bags of each kind of food for each pet. When I open the last bag on hand, I order accordingly. There is no forgetting for me. The cost savings for auto ship is not worth my worry about a stranglehold on my method of payment. ETA: I live in the sticks and I have no idea where a brick and mortar store is that would have what I feed my pets. Even if I knew, it would be a semi road trip to go there.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Dec 21, 2021 10:41:45 GMT -5
I've noticed more and more shopping sites will let you check out using the same mode of payment you used the last time you shopped. You don't have choose or enter a CC number or choose to pay with paypal. I just bought cat food at Chewy and when I went to check out - once I reviewed what was in my cart and said I was ready to check out - bam! it charged my credit card (that I used 4 months ago!) and I was done. I was like wait... what the heck just happened? I removed my account info from Chewy. Amazon does that too. And so do several other sites. I was appalled that Paypal just accepted the charge without asking me which account I wanted to use when I bought something online - it pulled money from my checking account! and I didn't want to do that - I thought it would let me choose a credit card or a checking account. I deleted all my accounts linked to my paypal account - and just left one credit card attached to it. I also updated Amazon. It's really HARD to sign out of your Amazon account... which means if you leave it open - the next time you go to it from your PC - it signs you back in... and with that 1 click check out... anyone who had access to my PC ALSO has access to spending my money on Amazon! I put an end to that ASAP. I think many websites do that as part of their "service". It is one of the reasons I don't want to create an account for everywhere I shop. I prefer to check out as a guest. Less hassle, no PWs to remember or store, plus hopefully less tracking too.
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finnime
Junior Associate
Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 7:14:35 GMT -5
Posts: 7,314
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Post by finnime on Dec 21, 2021 11:44:17 GMT -5
I use Paypal, Venmo and Zelle according to what each payee wants and have had no problems in over 25 years (Paypal). My bank account and a credit card are linked to Paypal. For Venmo and Zelle, it is the bank account. I practice very strict security checks when opening email and never ever click on an email link to pay or claim a credit; I always go to the source. I also always pay at the pump when pumping gas and have ever since that was an option. Again, no problems. I also use self-pay at stores when possible. I don't like people, and this saves the energy an encounter would cost me.
I realized recently that I seem to have run out of checks. At least, I can't find them on my main account. If I have to write a check I'll have to transfer funds to my subsidiary account. I'd order more checks, but plan to move within the next 4 or 5 months, so it doesn't seem worthwhile.
My homeowner's policy does cover instances of identity theft, and my ccs all cover theft by fraud. Cash, I'd be SOL.
Money has become in my life numbers written in ether. So far, so good.
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