laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Dec 20, 2021 11:18:36 GMT -5
A worker shortage is good for workers. I'm ok with this.
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justme
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Post by justme on Dec 20, 2021 11:34:39 GMT -5
I posted this more as a counterpoint to all the articles I've seen that blame those crazy millennials not wanting to work for the shortage. It's not just one thing. It's a lot of things, but mostly it's employers being assholes and people finally not taking it. Though I was surprised at how the boomers were pretty much all of the "fuck you I'm not looking for a job" group given how much I hear about those lazy millennials living off government benefits.So why does this matter? Considering boomers range from 57-+, when they got laid off they were close enough to retirement they maybe didn't have to work. So how does this make them lazy? They have worked 40+ years already. This is what has happened with DH. He got laid off and has decided to move up his retirement a year or so. There are no government benefits involved as he has another 1.5 years to Medicare and nearly 4+ to collect SS. If someone wants to hire him back, they might get him back with the right carrot. Or maybe not. Finally, the labor shortages are largely in service jobs……not the jobs that many boomers are retiring from. I didn't call boomers lazy... Also saying them retiring has nothing to do with shortages in service jobs is short sighted. If the people that were in service positions are looking for jobs and it's only the older people that are stopping - why are the jobs that were normally filled with younger people having shortages? My bet is that with a decrease of older people to hire companies now have openings for younger people that weren't there when they had to take service jobs. I'm sure it's not the only reason but I definitely think it's a chain reaction with the shittiest jobs getting the shaft.
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MN-Investor
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Post by MN-Investor on Dec 20, 2021 12:02:36 GMT -5
I figure that articles about a certain generation are as accurate as articles about people born under a specific sign of the Zodiac. You will always find individuals within a classification who meet the attribute you are writing about. For example, if you want to make the point that Boomers are essentially lazy and financially incompetent, you find individual Boomers who retired at age 50 with no savings and now demand that their children support them. But if you want to make that point that Boomers are hard working, responsible people, and it's their children who are the problem, you find Boomers still working at age 70 so their unemployed children can live with them. I do like articles which point out the advantages and the challenges each generation experiences, along with their shared place in history. I'm a Boomer - the Vietnam War was very real to me and certainly played a part in forming my political beliefs. The biggest issue today has to be the pandemic and that's having a major impact on people in their 20s and younger. I know it impacts all of us, but my opinion is that it's a major disrupter to young people just starting out in adulthood, and all of the people younger than that. That will be part of their shared experience moving forward. Every generation has challenges. I'm a firm believer that we're all in this together and that the Boomers have a responsibility to help the younger generations succeed. That's why I vote for politicians who are committed to making higher education affordable, who look to make Social Security viable for the future, who are committed to tackling climate change, etc.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 20, 2021 12:08:46 GMT -5
As a senior, the last industry I would even thinking of going back to work in is the service industry. Dealing with pissed off customers would get old really quick.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Dec 20, 2021 12:31:33 GMT -5
We have been talking about this happening when boomers retired for ages, especially in the trades. It just happens to coincide with the pandemic. This should end up being good for workers.
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trippypea
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Post by trippypea on Dec 20, 2021 12:52:10 GMT -5
Back during the last recession (what was it 2008/2009?) employers cut their staff and expected the remaining employees to pick up the slack left by their coworkers leaving. They did, because they were told if they didn't, there would be more cuts and there were no other jobs to switch to. Over time, employers became convinced that they never really needed those people anyway, since the work was getting done with fewer people (albeit it with longer hours for the workers left). So they continued to cut every year, until they had only a few people to handle the workload of several more. You can bet that they thought it would be this way again. They cut staff to the bone and expected those left to do all the work. But it's not the same situation at all compared to 2008. There are plenty of other jobs, training, etc available and with the lack of appreciation these workers get from many people, there is just no incentive to stay in a job where you are underpaid, overworked, and unappreciated. People continued told unemployed people on unemployment to "Get a job", which they did. Now they are unhappy about that.
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jeffreymo
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Post by jeffreymo on Dec 20, 2021 13:07:00 GMT -5
I have a boomer family member who quit right after 59.5, traveled and hung out for 6 months or so, then went back to work. This month he retired again at 63. I’m guessing this retirement won’t be permanent either. It’s not for need of money, probably moreso to avoid boredom. I’m planning to retire in the 55-60 range, and if my skills are still valuable I could see myself going the multiple “retirement” route.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 20, 2021 13:52:59 GMT -5
Eventually, the Boomer-haters will get their wish and all of us evil Boomers will be dead. It is unlikely that all the world's problems will miraculously disappear at that point, so new scapegoats will have to be found. Post-Boomer generations might want to start taking notes before all the Boomers are gone so that the members of the newly scapegoated generational cohort will know what to do when they step into their role as destroyers of civilization. Wait until we die and see how fast they go after each other picking at our body before we are in the grave fighting over our assets. They are all waiting for the payday.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Dec 20, 2021 23:32:49 GMT -5
Eventually, the Boomer-haters will get their wish and all of us evil Boomers will be dead. It is unlikely that all the world's problems will miraculously disappear at that point, so new scapegoats will have to be found. Post-Boomer generations might want to start taking notes before all the Boomers are gone so that the members of the newly scapegoated generational cohort will know what to do when they step into their role as destroyers of civilization. Wait until we die and see how fast they go after each other picking at our body before we are in the grave fighting over our assets. They are all waiting for the payday. Wow! Mine fight over who gets me when I'm old. I tell them I'll spread the love and spend 3 months with each of them 💕 They all understand I'll spend my retirement money on myself and grandkids. And the left over goes to food banks.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Dec 21, 2021 8:24:19 GMT -5
As a senior, the last industry I would even thinking of going back to work in is the service industry. Dealing with pissed off customers would get old really quick. Same. I worked in retail when I was in college back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and "Karen" was not yet an aspirational persona. I wouldn't last a day in a service job now.
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trimatty471
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Post by trimatty471 on Dec 21, 2021 9:14:25 GMT -5
The one thing that is not mentioned is ageism. Last year and prior around this time, my company was either promoting the Gen Y and Gen Z by the thousands or demoting/laying off the boomers by the thousands. Calling it cost savings. They try to sell us on the idea that these youngsters comes with fresh ideas. My take? Yes and no. Now in 2021, the Gen X/Boomers are leaving the company in droves and things are starting to fall apart...
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trimatty471
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Post by trimatty471 on Dec 21, 2021 9:20:58 GMT -5
Eventually, the Boomer-haters will get their wish and all of us evil Boomers will be dead. It is unlikely that all the world's problems will miraculously disappear at that point, so new scapegoats will have to be found. Post-Boomer generations might want to start taking notes before all the Boomers are gone so that the members of the newly scapegoated generational cohort will know what to do when they step into their role as destroyers of civilization. Wait until we die and see how fast they go after each other picking at our body before we are in the grave fighting over our assets. They are all waiting for the payday. You're not lying. My brother is 42 and my parents are 70/73. All he talks about is when they die, what is he going to inherit.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 21, 2021 9:23:44 GMT -5
The one thing that is not mentioned is ageism. Last year and prior around this time, my company was either promoting the Gen Y and Gen Z by the thousands or demoting/laying off the boomers by the thousands. Calling it cost savings. They try to sell us on the idea that these youngsters comes with fresh ideas. My take? Yes and no. Now in 2021, the Gen X/Boomers are leaving the company in droves and things are starting to fall apart... It is rarely wise to kick out your knowledge base whatever age it is.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 21, 2021 10:41:58 GMT -5
The one thing that is not mentioned is ageism. Last year and prior around this time, my company was either promoting the Gen Y and Gen Z by the thousands or demoting/laying off the boomers by the thousands. Calling it cost savings. They try to sell us on the idea that these youngsters comes with fresh ideas. My take? Yes and no. Now in 2021, the Gen X/Boomers are leaving the company in droves and things are starting to fall apart... It is rarely wise to kick out your knowledge base whatever age it is. Yeah this is biting my Dh's company big time. Back when DH learned to do it press operating was an apprenticeship. You started out at lower pay and trained up to become a master. They did away with that because training costs time/money. Well that left mostly boomers as the ones that had the required level of experience. It was already a dying field when DH entered it and has increasingly become so. Well when they hurried up to cut their salary and possibly health cost back in March 2020 there went a huge chunk of their press operators. There aren't a lot of younger people who can/want to do it AND there isn't anyone to train them even if they do. Orders are now backed out till possibly 2023. It is somewhat nice for us because that is something DH can do and it pays well in case they decide to ever start cutting in his department. He has volunteered to learn their presses and train but they want him where he is at. I figure though that looks good because he's approaching the age where discrimination can start kicking in so having a skill your company desperately needs in your back pocket is a good thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 13:00:39 GMT -5
It is rarely wise to kick out your knowledge base whatever age it is. A former boss used to refer to loss of "institutional memory"- the people who knew the history of how/why things are done or not done in the company, etc. While long-haulers need to keep an open mind to re-thinking things (not just "we tried that 10 years ago and it didn't work"), they can keep the company from repeating mistakes.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Dec 21, 2021 13:15:32 GMT -5
Wait until we die and see how fast they go after each other picking at our body before we are in the grave fighting over our assets. They are all waiting for the payday. You're not lying. My brother is 42 and my parents are 70/73. All he talks about is when they die, what is he going to inherit. Your brother sucks.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on Dec 21, 2021 13:34:56 GMT -5
My company called it losing 'tribal knowledge' when the long-term employees left.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Dec 21, 2021 14:08:43 GMT -5
I don't think the generational wars are helpful but how many years did we hear about lazy millennials before "okboomer" was ever a thing? But now it's disrespectful?
I'm firmly genx and happy to stay ignored.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 21, 2021 14:34:26 GMT -5
I don't think the generational wars are helpful but how many years did we hear about lazy millennials before "okboomer" was ever a thing? But now it's disrespectful? I'm firmly genx and happy to stay ignored. There's been shit about Boomers for so long it way predates the marketers wanting to sell us the lazy Millenial idea. The beginning of the Millenials and the last four years of the Boom have IMO a lot in common. Both were trashed with really bad economic conditions during part of their working years. I wish I wasn't drug into various shit simply because of when I was born. Almost all crap written on generations seems to concentrate on the first few years of the age range, if they try to be accurate. Far too many of them use examples before the age range even begins. At least Millenials don't seem to be perceived to exist in an age range of 40 to prebirth. Maybe I should just reject the label as it does not fit and come up with a new one. Not sure if I like the moniker generation Jones either as I think peeps born in the 50s lived a very different existence than those born in the 60s. Baby Boomers: born 1946 to 1964.
Generation Jones: born 1955 to 1965.
Generation X: born 1965 to 1980.
Xennials: born 1977 to 1983.
Millennials: born 1981 to 1996.
www.bing.com/search?q=millennials+age+range&form=ANNTH1&refig=cf8a8755beb34cc6980113d6fe5499a5&sp=5&qs=SC&pq=millenial&sk=PRES1OS2SC1EP1&sc=8-9&cvid=cf8a8755beb34cc6980113d6fe5499a5
I think Late Boom or pre-X would be more accurate for the 1960-1964 subset.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 21, 2021 16:38:59 GMT -5
My company called it losing 'tribal knowledge' when the long-term employees left. This is going to get interesting for DH. Those who have his knowledge base are scarce and it is not uncommon for him to still be getting calls for him to help them out. There is about a 10-15 year gap where they were laying off oil and gas engineers right and left. In response to this, some (like TD) moved overseas to continue to work in the field. Those who remained in the US cross trained into something else. As a result, all those engineers with the experience are starting to retire, and there is not the experience base to step into their shoes. In our group of friends, just about everyone has been retired at least twice. All of a sudden, one of the local refineries or consulting firms will desperately need someone with this experience, and are willing to pay an obscene sum to get them back. Last time this happened with TD, he was talking salary and we were batting around numbers. When the company finally gave up what they were willing to pay, they came up with nearly 100% more than he was going to ask for (which was pushing things, we thought) Both of us were gobsmacked.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 21, 2021 17:59:14 GMT -5
A worker shortage is good for workers. I'm ok with this. Well, it depends. My unit has been understaffed since 2016. Full staffing is 5-6 full time folks. In 2016, we went down to 4 full time folks. In Summer of 20, we went down to about 3.5 full time staff. We're ringing in the new year with 3 full time staff. The products we offer doubled in 2017.
So, essentially, now we have to do twice as much work with literally half of the people. How is that good for me? I'm also public sector. So, my raises come when legislatures feel like giving us one. Bonuses? Don't exist.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Dec 21, 2021 18:10:38 GMT -5
A worker shortage is good for workers. I'm ok with this. Well, it depends. My unit has been understaffed since 2016. Full staffing is 5-6 full time folks. In 2016, we went down to 4 full time folks. In Summer of 20, we went down to about 3.5 full time staff. We're ringing in the new year with 3 full time staff. The products we offer doubled in 2017.
So, essentially, now we have to do twice as much work with literally half of the people. How is that good for me? I'm also public sector. So, my raises come when legislatures feel like giving us one. Bonuses? Don't exist.
In theory you have more options to look for another job that doesn't overwork you.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 21, 2021 18:17:11 GMT -5
Well, it depends. My unit has been understaffed since 2016. Full staffing is 5-6 full time folks. In 2016, we went down to 4 full time folks. In Summer of 20, we went down to about 3.5 full time staff. We're ringing in the new year with 3 full time staff. The products we offer doubled in 2017.
So, essentially, now we have to do twice as much work with literally half of the people. How is that good for me? I'm also public sector. So, my raises come when legislatures feel like giving us one. Bonuses? Don't exist.
In theory you have more options to look for another job that doesn't overwork you. In theory. If I move to the private sector I give up a fully funded pension. I can retire at 57. Earlier if I take like .9-something of my pension. My wage including benefits is actually higher in the public sector. I know Cookie Galore has super benefits. I don't think her workplace is the norm. I pay $220 a month for family health insurance. My total OOP expense for 9 months of cancer treatment was 1K. I paid absolutely nothing for the birth of my first two kids. My 3rd kid ran me $500 OOP. My fourth ran me a metric crap ton, but that was because I was on an HDP (I was not planning to get pregnant).
There has been exactly one job open at my institution that I could have applied for. That was this past summer. And I couldn't swing it on top of work, school, and chemo. The first year of the pandemic was not kind to the public sector. We had furloughs and hiring freezes.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Dec 21, 2021 18:21:01 GMT -5
In theory you have more options to look for another job that doesn't overwork you. In theory. If I move to the private sector I give up a fully funded pension. I can retire at 57. Earlier if I take like .9-something of my pension. My wage including benefits is actually higher in the public sector. I know Cookie Galore has super benefits. I don't think her workplace is the norm. I pay $220 a month for family health insurance. My total OOP expense for 9 months of cancer treatment was 1K.
There has been exactly one job open at my institution that I could have applied for. That was this past summer. And I couldn't swing it on top of work, school, and chemo. The first year of the pandemic was not kind to the public sector. We had furloughs and hiring freezes.
It doesn't sound like the cuts in your workplace are due to a shortage of workers. And I don't really know how to respond to the argument that your job compensates you too well to quit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 18:25:36 GMT -5
There is about a 10-15 year gap where they were laying off oil and gas engineers right and left. In response to this, some (like TD) moved overseas to continue to work in the field. Those who remained in the US cross trained into something else. Many actuaries I know have Engineering degrees and got tired of the job insecurity in Engineering.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 21, 2021 21:57:38 GMT -5
There is about a 10-15 year gap where they were laying off oil and gas engineers right and left. In response to this, some (like TD) moved overseas to continue to work in the field. Those who remained in the US cross trained into something else. Many actuaries I know have Engineering degrees and got tired of the job insecurity in Engineering. Interesting. I wish I had known that.
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trimatty471
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Post by trimatty471 on Dec 23, 2021 9:12:38 GMT -5
It is rarely wise to kick out your knowledge base whatever age it is. Yeah this is biting my Dh's company big time. Back when DH learned to do it press operating was an apprenticeship. You started out at lower pay and trained up to become a master. They did away with that because training costs time/money. Well that left mostly boomers as the ones that had the required level of experience. It was already a dying field when DH entered it and has increasingly become so. Well when they hurried up to cut their salary and possibly health cost back in March 2020 there went a huge chunk of their press operators. There aren't a lot of younger people who can/want to do it AND there isn't anyone to train them even if they do. Orders are now backed out till possibly 2023. It is somewhat nice for us because that is something DH can do and it pays well in case they decide to ever start cutting in his department. He has volunteered to learn their presses and train but they want him where he is at. I figure though that looks good because he's approaching the age where discrimination can start kicking in so having a skill your company desperately needs in your back pocket is a good thing. Our company is trying to eliminate the Press Department. We had 2 people but they reduced it to 1 to save on cost.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 27, 2021 7:51:12 GMT -5
The hospital I volunteer at is so desperate for non medical employees, like dietary and housekeeping, that they’ve emailed the volunteers to work. I emailed back how old I was and they didn’t care, they said.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 27, 2021 8:15:49 GMT -5
Niece said yesterday at the hospital where she works they are so short handed that every day a text goes around asking employees to volunteer to work on the floor for higher pay.
She said because she is in surgery, she can't do it, but the department secretary took them up on it. She sat with a patient all day who needed one to one care. The secretary has been doing this because of the higher pay. She has even sat with Covid patients who keep trying to pull out tubes, etc. while intubated.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Dec 27, 2021 8:34:18 GMT -5
A friend gave me a travel coffee mug. It reads "Retired 2021, not my problem anymore". I really really like this friend so who am I to argue with her Not related, but we got my dad a shirt that says "you can't scare me, I have two daughters." My mom gets so tired of his shirts with sayings on them.
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