2021 Mass Shootings

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

I saw a headline this morning that there have been 651 mass shootings so far this year. Yesterday was the 334th day of the year. That is almost 2 mass shootings every single day. 

[Tiny]

Well, you know... America is a very dangerous place to live... you gotta protect yourself, your family, your community, your country! (that 2nd amendment and all).

There are more guns than people in the USA:

www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/there-are-more-guns-than-people-in-the-united-states-according-to-a-new-study-of-global-firearm-ownership/


We're like a Third World Country -  anyone you meet COULD be a danger to  you - so you gotta be prepared.  

We are no longer Free to feel safe and to not fear other Americans.   We are now Free to own a gun and protect ourselves and to live in fear of other Americans.  

I have a feeling those who founded America would be appalled.  

[Tennesseer]

A continued 'Welcome To America'.

[thyme4change]

I'm not a gun girl, but I don't particularly like the definition of mass shooting. When you say mass shooting, you think of a stranger walking into a shopping mall and spraying bullets everyone - which is a scary thought. When in reality it is when 4 people are shot, so an ex-boyfriend goes to a girl's house and shoots her and her parents and then himself. Also scary, also deadly - but a different risk profile. I would rather we use language that emphasizes the real risk - which are almost always someone known to the victim - closely - a member of the family or a person with a romantic involvement. Your chances of being shot by a stranger are very, very low.

And, the most dangerous person to you is yourself. Our gun culture is responsible for an obscene number of suicides. They are twice as common as being shot and killed by someone else.

[pulmonarymd]

According to gun proponents, suicides don’t count in gun mortality. Because, if you want to kill yourself, you will do it anyway, and the gun is irrelevant.

Stupid, but you know, Merica

[thyme4change]

Dec 1, 2021 12:45:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

According to gun proponents, suicides don’t count in gun mortality. Because, if you want to kill yourself, you will do it anyway, and the gun is irrelevant.

Stupid, but you know, Merica

Yes, I have heard this argument many, many times. It completely ignores the literal millions of cases of someone who tried a less violent method of suicide and survived and went on to have a normal life. Millions of people share that story. If they had all used gun to the head- the success rate would have been far higher, and the heartbreak factor would be exponentially increased.

[Tennesseer]

Four deaths now.


Fourth victim dies after Oxford High School shooting in Michigan; suspect in custody, motive unknown

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 1, 2021 13:07:37 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Dec 1, 2021 12:45:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

According to gun proponents, suicides don’t count in gun mortality. Because, if you want to kill yourself, you will do it anyway, and the gun is irrelevant.

Stupid, but you know, Merica

Yes, I have heard this argument many, many times. It completely ignores the literal millions of cases of someone who tried a less violent method of suicide and survived and went on to have a normal life. Millions of people share that story. If they had all used gun to the head- the success rate would have been far higher, and the heartbreak factor would be exponentially increased.

Women attempt suicide more often. Men are more successful. Why, because men use guns and women tend to use less lethal methods. And you are right about people getting over feeling suicidal, and getting on with their life. Can't do it if you are dead. Just another example of the lack of care about others by a group who believes they are "compassionate"

[andi9899]

My friend works at one of the universities here and she said foreign students aren't coming here anymore. They've seen a drastic decline in foreign student enrollment. I wonder why. Could it be because there are nut jobs wandering around here armed? Could it be that you are at a much higher risk of dying here if you aren't white?

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 1, 2021 12:45:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

According to gun proponents, suicides don’t count in gun mortality. Because, if you want to kill yourself, you will do it anyway, and the gun is irrelevant.

Stupid, but you know, Merica

So what is your answer to stopping gun suicides?  Even if we ban semi-automatic type weapons, those are not the weapons used in gun suicides.  

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 1, 2021 14:40:44 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 1, 2021 12:45:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

According to gun proponents, suicides don’t count in gun mortality. Because, if you want to kill yourself, you will do it anyway, and the gun is irrelevant.

Stupid, but you know, Merica

So what is your answer to stopping gun suicides?  Even if we ban semi-automatic type weapons, those are not the weapons used in gun suicides.  

Better gun laws with waiting periods
Better security of guns at home so someone else cannot access it
Better training and stricter licensing
Improved access to mental health treatment, which would require addressing the health insurance issue

Just a start

[tractor]

You can require guns to be locked up at home, but you're still dependent on someone taking personal responsibility for it to work, just like getting a vaccine. We have proven that as a society we are unwilling to take any personal responsibility to help others.

I feel the worst for kids who shoot kids when "playing" with a gun at home. It happens way too often. I have close to 50 guns in my home, my kids were never allowed to "play" with them, and most are locked away. The ones that are not either have the firing pins removed (on display) or are unloaded.

As a society we need to start caring about others and be aware that all of our actions can have far reaching consequences. Sadly we continue to devolve, and are more focused on ourselves, or are in complete denial when it come to how much of an influence we have in others. The killings will not stop until society shifts, and that may never happen 😞

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 2, 2021 10:07:28 GMT -5 tractor said:

You can require guns to be locked up at home, but you're still dependent on someone taking personal responsibility for it to work, just like getting a vaccine. We have proven that as a society we are unwilling to take any personal responsibility to help others.

I feel the worst for kids who shoot kids when "playing" with a gun at home. It happens way too often. I have close to 50 guns in my home, my kids were never allowed to "play" with them, and most are locked away. The ones that are not either have the firing pins removed (on display) or are unloaded.

As a society we need to start caring about others and be aware that all of our actions can have far reaching consequences. Sadly we continue to devolve, and are more focused on ourselves, or are in complete denial when it come to how much of an influence we have in others. The killings will not stop until society shifts, and that may never happen 😞

I agree. Because of that, we need to put more restrictions on gun ownership, so we can keep it out of the hands of those who will be irresponsible. Those who were irresponsible, as you outline above, need to be arrested and prosecuted, and subject to civil lawsuits. Requiring liability insurance like we do for cars will also help, because people will respond to large verdicts. Unfortunately, gun rights advocates will not support any of this, and I will be called a liberal.

And the carnage continues.

[Tiny]

When in reality it is when 4 people are shot, so an ex-boyfriend goes to a girl's house and shoots her and her parents and then himself. Also scary, also deadly - but a different risk profile

Just in general...

Is it really a different risk profile? Are the girlfriend (and her parents) really consciously thinking - geez Boyfriend is kind of dangerous maybe he will kill us we should take some precautions?
Do you think they are not taken by surprise when the boyfriend shows up and starts shooting?

What if the boyfriend killed his girlfriend, her mom and her aunt who was visiting from out of state (and not living in the house) and then killed himself. Does the "risk profile" change because the aunt might have just met the boyfriend (and thought he was a nice guy) before he decided to use a gun?

Is the "most people aren't killed by strangers" just a way to bolster one's Illusion of Safety - because it's easier to rationalize that none of the people THEY know have mental health issues or anger issues or substance abuse issue so therefore they are less likely to die in a mass shooting? So therefore they are 'safer'?


I think "mass shooting" is an ok description.   atleast 4 people died by gun fire.   It doesn't matter if they knew the shooter or not.  They are still unnecessarily dead.   And it's unlikely they "deserved it" or " they brought it on themselves" or "they should have known better".   

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 2, 2021 10:07:28 GMT -5 tractor said:

You can require guns to be locked up at home, but you're still dependent on someone taking personal responsibility for it to work, just like getting a vaccine. We have proven that as a society we are unwilling to take any personal responsibility to help others.

I feel the worst for kids who shoot kids when "playing" with a gun at home. It happens way too often. I have close to 50 guns in my home, my kids were never allowed to "play" with them, and most are locked away. The ones that are not either have the firing pins removed (on display) or are unloaded.

As a society we need to start caring about others and be aware that all of our actions can have far reaching consequences. Sadly we continue to devolve, and are more focused on ourselves, or are in complete denial when it come to how much of an influence we have in others. The killings will not stop until society shifts, and that may never happen 😞

Speaking of that I was watching something on the History Channel and they were talking about fingerprint technology.  It registers the gun to whoever's finger prints are in it.  If you are not registered the gun cannot fire, if you attempt to disable it it ruins the gun and renders it inoperable.

Not only would that save children but it would stop people who steal guns for use in crimes.

Apparently the NRA launched a massive smear campagin claiming this was the first step to the government seizing your guns and "tracking" you so they can eventually arrest you for exercising your rights so it never got off the ground. 

I don't get it you can still own as many guns as you desire with that technology, it just makes sure no one who shouldn't have it can fire it.  What is the threat here? 

[Tiny]

Dec 2, 2021 10:50:57 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Dec 2, 2021 10:07:28 GMT -5 tractor said:

You can require guns to be locked up at home, but you're still dependent on someone taking personal responsibility for it to work, just like getting a vaccine. We have proven that as a society we are unwilling to take any personal responsibility to help others.

I feel the worst for kids who shoot kids when "playing" with a gun at home. It happens way too often. I have close to 50 guns in my home, my kids were never allowed to "play" with them, and most are locked away. The ones that are not either have the firing pins removed (on display) or are unloaded.

As a society we need to start caring about others and be aware that all of our actions can have far reaching consequences. Sadly we continue to devolve, and are more focused on ourselves, or are in complete denial when it come to how much of an influence we have in others. The killings will not stop until society shifts, and that may never happen 😞

Speaking of that I was watching something on the History Channel and they were talking about fingerprint technology.  It registers the gun to whoever's finger prints are in it.  If you are not registered the gun cannot fire, if you attempt to disable it it ruins the gun and renders it inoperable.

Not only would that save children but it would stop people who steal guns for use in crimes.

Apparently the NRA launched a massive smear campagin claiming this was the first step to the government seizing your guns and "tracking" you so they can eventually arrest you for exercising your rights so it never got off the ground. 

I don't get it you can still own as many guns as you desire with that technology, it just makes sure no one who shouldn't have it can fire it.  What is the threat here? 

Probably because the next step would be - if you don't 'renew' the license for the gun - the gun could be disabled.    If you want to legally sell the gun you have to do something (paper work - maybe pay a fee) to have the gun transferred to the other person. 

The Government has it's hands in your business.... just like it does when you own a house or a car or a pet or a boat.... etc...    

[swamp]

Dec 2, 2021 10:07:28 GMT -5 tractor said:

As a society we need to start caring about others and be aware that all of our actions can have far reaching consequences. Sadly we continue to devolve, and are more focused on ourselves, or are in complete denial when it come to how much of an influence we have in others. The killings will not stop until society shifts, and that may never happen 😞

Commie. 

[Tennesseer]

A comment made yesterday during the SCOTUS hearings on abortion:

Justice Samuel Alito, during a discussion of the issue of viability, emphasized that “the fetus has an interest in having a life.”

Fate of Roe v. Wade in the hands of the Supreme Court after spirited arguments

What about the lives of children and adults who keep on getting mowed down by the millions of firearms in the hands of dangerous people. These adults and children are also interested in having a life too.

Yet SCOTUS will do nothing about firearm control.

[tractor]

Dec 2, 2021 11:27:35 GMT -5 swamp said:

Dec 2, 2021 10:07:28 GMT -5 tractor said:

As a society we need to start caring about others and be aware that all of our actions can have far reaching consequences. Sadly we continue to devolve, and are more focused on ourselves, or are in complete denial when it come to how much of an influence we have in others. The killings will not stop until society shifts, and that may never happen 😞

Commie. 

OK, I know what I should have said is "screw you all, it's my right to have as many guns as I want that I can hand out to whoever wants one, kill or be killed" 😊 But, I stand by what I said, can't we all just get along?

[happyhoix]

Dec 2, 2021 10:42:40 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 2, 2021 10:07:28 GMT -5 tractor said:

You can require guns to be locked up at home, but you're still dependent on someone taking personal responsibility for it to work, just like getting a vaccine. We have proven that as a society we are unwilling to take any personal responsibility to help others.

I feel the worst for kids who shoot kids when "playing" with a gun at home. It happens way too often. I have close to 50 guns in my home, my kids were never allowed to "play" with them, and most are locked away. The ones that are not either have the firing pins removed (on display) or are unloaded.

As a society we need to start caring about others and be aware that all of our actions can have far reaching consequences. Sadly we continue to devolve, and are more focused on ourselves, or are in complete denial when it come to how much of an influence we have in others. The killings will not stop until society shifts, and that may never happen 😞

I agree. Because of that, we need to put more restrictions on gun ownership, so we can keep it out of the hands of those who will be irresponsible. Those who were irresponsible, as you outline above, need to be arrested and prosecuted, and subject to civil lawsuits. Requiring liability insurance like we do for cars will also help, because people will respond to large verdicts. Unfortunately, gun rights advocates will not support any of this, and I will be called a liberal.

And the carnage continues.

Apparently the Michigan prosecutor is considering charging the parents of the mass shooter for allowing him access to firearms.

There are some things coming to light - the kid had been flagged twice for concerning behavior- once the day before, and once just hours before the shooting, and yet had access at home to the gun and ammunition. Plus his mom wrote a thank you note to Trump a while back for protecting her right to own weapons.

Maybe if we start punishing parents who allow kids access to weapons when their little darlings kill other people- or kill themselves - people will start being more responsible with their firearms. You don’t even need a gun safe, install trigger locks and keep the keys with you at all times. If you can’t afford a gun safe or trigger locks you probably can’t afford kids in the first place.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 1, 2021 11:05:40 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

I saw a headline this morning that there have been 651 mass shootings so far this year. Yesterday was the 334th day of the year. That is almost 2 mass shootings every single day. 

....and yet, support for gun control has never been lower.


www.cnn.com/2021/11/23/politics/gun-control-gallup-poll/index.html

[weltschmerz]

Dec 1, 2021 15:06:12 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 1, 2021 14:40:44 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

So what is your answer to stopping gun suicides?  Even if we ban semi-automatic type weapons, those are not the weapons used in gun suicides.  

Better gun laws with waiting periods
Better security of guns at home so someone else cannot access it
Better training and stricter licensing
Improved access to mental health treatment, which would require addressing the health insurance issue

Just a start

It's going in the opposite direction,mon ami.

You Can Now Carry A Handgun In Texas Without A License, Training Or Background Check

www.npr.org/2021/09/02/1033606817/texas-gun-law-permitless-carry-constitutional-carry

The rest of the planet thinks America is fucking insane.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 3, 2021 12:34:40 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Dec 2, 2021 10:42:40 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I agree. Because of that, we need to put more restrictions on gun ownership, so we can keep it out of the hands of those who will be irresponsible. Those who were irresponsible, as you outline above, need to be arrested and prosecuted, and subject to civil lawsuits. Requiring liability insurance like we do for cars will also help, because people will respond to large verdicts. Unfortunately, gun rights advocates will not support any of this, and I will be called a liberal.

And the carnage continues.

Apparently the Michigan prosecutor is considering charging the parents of the mass shooter for allowing him access to firearms.

There are some things coming to light - the kid had been flagged twice for concerning behavior- once the day before, and once just hours before the shooting, and yet had access at home to the gun and ammunition. Plus his mom wrote a thank you note to Trump a while back for protecting her right to own weapons.

Maybe if we start punishing parents who allow kids access to weapons when their little darlings kill other people- or kill themselves - people will start being more responsible with their firearms. You don’t even need a gun safe, install trigger locks and keep the keys with you at all times. If you can’t afford a gun safe or trigger locks you probably can’t afford kids in the first place.

Just in:

Parents of Michigan high school shooting suspect charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 3, 2021 12:54:27 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 1, 2021 15:06:12 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Better gun laws with waiting periods
Better security of guns at home so someone else cannot access it
Better training and stricter licensing
Improved access to mental health treatment, which would require addressing the health insurance issue

Just a start

It's going in the opposite direction,mon ami.

You Can Now Carry A Handgun In Texas Without A License, Training Or Background Check

www.npr.org/2021/09/02/1033606817/texas-gun-law-permitless-carry-constitutional-carry

The rest of the planet thinks America is fucking insane.

I know that. Thankfully I live in a rational part of the country. We will finally tackle this when we love our children more than we love our guns. Maybe I will live long enough to see the day, but my hopes for that are dwindling

[weltschmerz]

Dec 3, 2021 13:13:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 3, 2021 12:54:27 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

It's going in the opposite direction,mon ami.

You Can Now Carry A Handgun In Texas Without A License, Training Or Background Check

www.npr.org/2021/09/02/1033606817/texas-gun-law-permitless-carry-constitutional-carry

The rest of the planet thinks America is fucking insane.

I know that. Thankfully I live in a rational part of the country. We will finally tackle this when we love our children more than we love our guns. Maybe I will live long enough to see the day, but my hopes for that are dwindling

Per the link, other states are loosening gun restrictions as well.

Now, the Lone Star State joins a slew of others that have loosened or removed permitting requirements this year. Those states include Iowa, Montana, Wyoming, Utah and Tennessee.

I don't get it, I really don't.  It's like fighting opiod addiction by making opioids freely available on every street corner. It makes no sense.  

In any case I was shocked and horrified that victims of mass shootings have to pay for their own medical care. The NRA should pick up the tab for putting these people back together again.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 3, 2021 13:24:14 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 3, 2021 13:13:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I know that. Thankfully I live in a rational part of the country. We will finally tackle this when we love our children more than we love our guns. Maybe I will live long enough to see the day, but my hopes for that are dwindling

Per the link, other states are loosening gun restrictions as well.

Now, the Lone Star State joins a slew of others that have loosened or removed permitting requirements this year. Those states include Iowa, Montana, Wyoming, Utah and Tennessee.

I don't get it, I really don't.  It's like fighting opiod addiction by making opioids freely available on every street corner. It makes no sense.  

In any case I was shocked and horrified that victims of mass shootings have to pay for their own medical care. The NRA should pick up the tab for putting these people back together again.

I live in the liberal hell of new England. Thankfully far away from that craziness. But it appears we are going back to the wild west. I do not understand it.

And yes, if you are shot, you are responsible for paying the bills. Because, you know, freedom. Also one of the myriad of reasons why our helath care costs are out of control

[weltschmerz]

Dec 3, 2021 13:27:14 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 3, 2021 13:24:14 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Per the link, other states are loosening gun restrictions as well.

Now, the Lone Star State joins a slew of others that have loosened or removed permitting requirements this year. Those states include Iowa, Montana, Wyoming, Utah and Tennessee.

I don't get it, I really don't.  It's like fighting opiod addiction by making opioids freely available on every street corner. It makes no sense.  

In any case I was shocked and horrified that victims of mass shootings have to pay for their own medical care. The NRA should pick up the tab for putting these people back together again.

I live in the liberal hell of new England. Thankfully far away from that craziness. But it appears we are going back to the wild west. I do not understand it.



And yes, if you are shot, you are responsible for paying the bills. Because, you know, freedom. Also one of the myriad of reasons why our helath care costs are out of control

Tell me how this works. You have insurance and take good care of yourself. Then you're shot at a concert/house of worship/work/Black Friday sale/or even a goddamn Garlic Festival. The ambulance takes you to a nearby hospital, but the doctors are Out of Network with your insurance company. Are you screwed?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 3, 2021 13:27:14 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 3, 2021 13:24:14 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Per the link, other states are loosening gun restrictions as well.

Now, the Lone Star State joins a slew of others that have loosened or removed permitting requirements this year. Those states include Iowa, Montana, Wyoming, Utah and Tennessee.

I don't get it, I really don't.  It's like fighting opiod addiction by making opioids freely available on every street corner. It makes no sense.  

In any case I was shocked and horrified that victims of mass shootings have to pay for their own medical care. The NRA should pick up the tab for putting these people back together again.

I live in the liberal hell of new England. Thankfully far away from that craziness. But it appears we are going back to the wild west. I do not understand it.

And yes, if you are shot, you are responsible for paying the bills. Because, you know, freedom. Also one of the myriad of reasons why our helath care costs are out of control

Actually, and this is very interesting, if you read history the Wild West was actually WAY more regulated in regards to guns than we are today.  There were quite a few places in many towns were you weren't allowed to come in armed, like the town saloon for example.   All those shoot outs in the OK Corral are made for TV fantasy.  Guns were for work and actual protecting not shooting a gas station attendant because he asked you to put on your mask.

They'd be considered flaming liberal commies by the NRA today.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 3, 2021 13:44:26 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 3, 2021 13:27:14 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I live in the liberal hell of new England. Thankfully far away from that craziness. But it appears we are going back to the wild west. I do not understand it.



And yes, if you are shot, you are responsible for paying the bills. Because, you know, freedom. Also one of the myriad of reasons why our helath care costs are out of control

Tell me how this works. You have insurance and take good care of yourself. Then you're shot at a concert/house of worship/work/Black Friday sale/or even a goddamn Garlic Festival. The ambulance takes you to a nearby hospital, but the doctors are Out of Network with your insurance company. Are you screwed?

It is potentially a problem for that individual. How difficult all of this is would depend on their insurance plan. But yes, it could be a big problem, and you could be left with a big co-insurance bill. You would need to be on the phone with your insurance plan, the hospital, and the doctors to sort all this out. All while trying to recover from your injuries.

In the US, you do not even have to imagine this. Fall and break your hip on vacation. You may wind up in the same situation. But this is the medical system we prefer, apparently

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 3, 2021 13:54:34 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Dec 3, 2021 13:27:14 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I live in the liberal hell of new England. Thankfully far away from that craziness. But it appears we are going back to the wild west. I do not understand it.

And yes, if you are shot, you are responsible for paying the bills. Because, you know, freedom. Also one of the myriad of reasons why our helath care costs are out of control

Actually, and this is very interesting, if you read history the Wild West was actually WAY more regulated in regards to guns than we are today.  There were quite a few places in many towns were you weren't allowed to come in armed, like the town saloon for example.   All those shoot outs in the OK Corral are made for TV fantasy.  Guns were for work and actual protecting not shooting a gas station attendant because he asked you to put on your mask.

They'd be considered flaming liberal commies by the NRA today.

I knew this as well. It is clear we have become stupider since then, especially in regards to this. They knew the idea that more guns made for a polite society was fiction. There are far too many people drawn to the fantasy that used to exist, instead of understanding the reality