tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Nov 3, 2021 20:35:43 GMT -5
Long story short - I finally made shareholder at my firm, and 11 months later, the shareholder group just voted to become an ESOP, so I'll be selling my shares. My initial investment will be up about $25/share (the exact number depends on cashflow and a couple of other things when the transaction actually occurs, but that's close enough). Less what I owe the former shareholder I bought my shares from, I will get a check for about $103k (and then have to subtract taxes - I think it's just capital gains taxes).
I won't see this type of return again in the future as we're going to an ESOP. Instead, I'll get ESOP shares to cash out at retirement, and I will see a larger annual bonus, though that is subject to higher taxes than my distributions based on my shares would have been.
I already max out my 401k, as does DH (neither of us qualify for the catch-up contributions). We do a backdoor Roth every year already for each of us. In the 401k accounts, we have close to 8 times our household income, so it feels like we're on track there. I haven't finished funding the kids' 529s for the year, but have money earmarked for that (we typically put in $6k each as that's the max we can claim on our state taxes). My 9yo has $46k and my 5yo has $29k.
Our EF is already over-funded. No new cars are needed. I have no interest in a vacation home. No debt other than my stock loan which will get paid off before I receive the check.
Is one piece of the answer I should just do the things and not worry about them? For instance, DS is a 4th grader and has the free national park pass this year, which he thinks is really cool, and he wants to go to the Grand Canyon. I keep looking at flights for spring break, and they're close to double what they 'normally' are - we have 2 airlines with direct flights there, so typically can get them around $250-300, and now they're closer to $500. The part of me that grew up with parents pinching every penny to make ends meet doesn't want to overpay for flights, but then the other part of me says we can afford it, and we'd all enjoy the trip, so just do it.
The other piece is that I probably need to start an after-tax investing account. I have almost nothing in after tax, and it seems like maybe that is overdue? I also have the option (not with this money, but money in the future in general from my job) to do after-tax investing in my 401k account. Is that something I should consider?
Let me know if there's anything else I should consider, or other questions someone has. I'm in Toronto for work for a couple of days and mostly just using wifi, so my responses may be delayed.
PDQ the entire thread (pieces are fine) - I may delete anything I think is too much of an identifying detail later.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2021 20:53:25 GMT -5
Yes, definitely do the after-tax account. It's a way of hedging your bets. I wish now that more of my money were in after-tax accounts. EVERYTHING taken out of an IRA or 401(k) is ordinary income, even if it's dividends or LT gains on stuff you've held for years. And I suspect that with the stealth axes it triggers, such as taxation of SS and IRMAA adjustments, my distributions will be taxed at a higher rate than when I earned the money.
You may want to dollar-cost average by putting maybe 10% of it in the market monthly.
I'm in a similar position with an inheritance from Dad- I don't need it. A little will be for fun, maybe a family trip with DS, DDIL and the 3 kids to the Caribbean. Of the rest, roughly 10% will be given away and the other 90% put in the 529s over the next 10 years. Oldest granddaughter is 7 now and I have $117K in the accounts for 3 kids, so they can use more.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Nov 3, 2021 21:08:11 GMT -5
Thanks, Athena.
DH and I did start contributing to Roth 401ks maybe 7-8 years ago, so hopefully that helps with taxes in retirement. I can’t remember the split on them for the current balances though - I don’t track that when I update our net worth monthly, so I’ll have to remember to look next time I’m logged into the accounts.
Do you use a Vanguard/Fidelity type brokerage firm for your after tax account?
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Nov 3, 2021 21:52:53 GMT -5
Congratulations! I'm sure you worked hard for it.
I vote for taking the trip and others when you can manage it. For myself, I allow a generous budget and always have enough set aside to pay for it, so I don't really worry about the cost. When my boys were around 8 or 10 years old we started taking more trips with them. It was so much fun! We love flying together. They are grown now, but when we can schedule it (and prior to Covid) we still take them on trips. Priceless!
You can easily set up an after-tax brokerage account with Fidelity, or Vanguard too, I'm sure. It is kind of nice to not have every dollar withdrawn be subject to ordinary income taxes. I agree with Athena. I wouldn't put it all in at once. Dollar cost average over at least a few months with whatever amount you decide on. Whenever I have money that I have no definite plans for, I put it in Fidelity Balanced Fund. It has done well for me over the years.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2021 7:30:17 GMT -5
Do you use a Vanguard/Fidelity type brokerage firm for your after tax account? I have one at Fidelity and one at UBS. I'd go with Fidelity. I really like my UBS advisor but there's a price for that. If you're inclined to charitable giving consider a donor-advised fund at Fidelity. You can put money (or appreciated stock) in at any time and they have several investment options in the fund. It's deductible when you put it in. You then have them write checks to charities- any 501(c)(3) charity, which is the type that qualifies for regular charitable deductions. Even better, they can remain anonymous, so you get the benefit of a well-documented donation but they can't hound you for more money. You can let the money sit there for years before sending it out.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 4, 2021 7:36:31 GMT -5
What are your goals? Do you want to RE, or to leave your empire to your kids, or live it up a little now?
(Did you see the ibonds thread?)
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Nov 4, 2021 8:06:37 GMT -5
tcu - congrats on putting yourself in such a great position. I'm quite a ways behind you but getting there. When we met with a financial advisor this summer for the first time seeking wisdom on what to do with our extra cashflow, their best advice was to start after tax invstmts. Not only does this diversify our tax situation but it sets us up to retire at 60 (our goal) and have access to funds without penalty, extra taxes. Lo and behold my firm just switched our invstmt platform from Hancock to Fidelity and one of the key new offerings is after tax invsts straight from my check. It's like the universe aligned. I've been curiously watching the ibonds thread.
I'm struggling with the same spend a little more money when it's rewarding. Couldn't let myself get a cleaning lady - wasteful spending. Geez - my life is so, so much better with her. Well worth the $200/month as I function way better with a clean house. Plus it makes us all pick up the night before and it's not me nagging. It's hey Robin is coming tomorrow and she can't see that we sometimes live like pigs LOL. My next two household gripes are getting woken up by the cats at 4 am for food. So, so disruptive. Trying to convince myself to plunk down $$ for timed feeders. If it were one cat, it'd be done but we have 3 so it's 3x as painful LOL. Then, the litter boxes are driving me insane. DH's job but he slacks at it and then I get resentful and naggy. Again $$$ that could keep the peace and mean I'm not treading on litter as I get out of my shower every day. I took one step and bought the more expensive litter this last night bc I just can't deal with the smell of 3 cats.
Take the trip!
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 4, 2021 8:29:10 GMT -5
I have had accounts at tdameritrade - I was a scottrade customer when they bought, and now I have a vanguard account. I did cash out the taxable account with them still have roth and rollover. I like them both, I'd likely prefer the teameritrade but maybe I will start another after tax account.
tdameritrade gives much more detailed info on stocks if you ever plan to buy individual stocks. And the pricing at vanguard is on a 20 minute delay, which is super frustrating. Since I still have tdameritrade I do most of my research there for the stocks I buy at vanguard.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 4, 2021 8:50:07 GMT -5
Congrats!
Is one piece of the answer I should just do the things and not worry about them? For instance, DS is a 4th grader and has the free national park pass this year, which he thinks is really cool, and he wants to go to the Grand Canyon. I keep looking at flights for spring break, and they're close to double what they 'normally' are - we have 2 airlines with direct flights there, so typically can get them around $250-300, and now they're closer to $500. The part of me that grew up with parents pinching every penny to make ends meet doesn't want to overpay for flights, but then the other part of me says we can afford it, and we'd all enjoy the trip, so just do it. Yes, I think part of the answer is that you should do some things and not worry about them. We took a vacation..a big one...we dropped 5K on 2.5 weeks, during our financial blood bath of 2015. Excluding the vacation, we had an 18K loss in as many months. Most of it was out of our control.
The kids that were around in 2015 STILL talk about the trip now.
I still have no regrets for doing that. And, yes, I grew up with frugal parents too. But they also had a bad relationship with money. I had to unlearn their relationship with money, and learn a much healthier one.
I think there's something to be said for knowing when you can open up the purse strings, and knowing when they have to be shut again. My kids know if the purse is open, we take advantage. When the purse closes, that's the end of it,
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Nov 4, 2021 9:04:22 GMT -5
If you're inclined to charitable giving consider a donor-advised fund at Fidelity. I'm contemplating opening one of these...for sure once I can start making withdrawals on my retirement accounts. I never donate enough to deduct anything annually, but if I could just a lump sum in there one year to use for my future giving I could.
What happens to donor-advised funds when you die? Would my kids inherit it to donate when they want or does it all have to be dispersed to charities you've previously specified?
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Nov 4, 2021 10:55:52 GMT -5
I just want to add, take the trip. Don't worry about the cost because everything is higher now, and not likely to go back down to the "good old days". I believe higher prices are here to stay.
Besides, it won't be long and your kids will have no desire to vacation with you. Catch them while they're still young and impressionable.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Nov 4, 2021 10:59:02 GMT -5
My kids have always loved to travel with us!
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Nov 4, 2021 11:08:06 GMT -5
I just want to add, take the trip. Don't worry about the cost because everything is higher now, and not likely to go back down to the "good old days". I believe higher prices are here to stay. Besides, it won't be long and your kids will have no desire to vacation with you. Catch them while they're still young and impressionable. My son would roll his eyes and tell his friends that I was dragging him on one my “culture” trips! But he would always tell me later he was glad I drug him! I kinda miss dragging him along but he grew up! Now on rare occasions they drag me along.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2021 11:56:09 GMT -5
What happens to donor-advised funds when you die? Would my kids inherit it to donate when they want or does it all have to be dispersed to charities you've previously specified? I had to look it up! You can name a Successor (someone who can continue to make donations out of the fund- don't know if they can add to it) or you can name charities that will get it, or a combination of Successor and charities ($X to Charity A, $Y to Charity B, the rest to Successor).
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 4, 2021 12:02:08 GMT -5
Take the trip! The older you get, the more the cost seems "too much" - but that is the cost. Definitely do a bigg splurge or two, then invest the rest.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Nov 4, 2021 13:10:26 GMT -5
A couple of thoughts.
First, go to the Grand Canyon. Thirty years from now, your kids will remember the trip. Will they remember another couple of grand in your investment account just as fondly? Another consideration is that the Grand Canyon isn’t just a vacation, it’s also an educational experience. Geography, geology, hydrology, social studies (water use and sharing), Native American history, American history, and a bunch more. There’s more to the Grand Canyon than a big hole in the ground.
Second, your investment accounts might be getting a little 401K heavy. Your inclination to invest in taxable accounts may be a smart move. Do some projections to see what your RMD’s might be when you reach 72. What tax bracket will your RMD’s push your income in to? You don’t want your RMD’s to push you into a nearly 40% tax bracket when, if you had put your money in a taxable account, you could have paid 10% or 12% taxes on your contributions and 15% or 20% on the long term capital gains your investments earned. I screwed this up for us. We’re now scrambling to do Roth conversions at an income tax rate of 24% when we could have put the money directly into taxable accounts and paid about 14% in income taxes.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Nov 4, 2021 13:16:09 GMT -5
I got nothing on the other things you are looking for advice on... but this... I found it helpful to have a guideline for dealing with "windfalls" (and this sounds like a windfall). I would break apart windfall money by percentages - when I was in debt (various loans) it was 10% fun money/40% retirement money (Roth IRA)/50% to debt paydown. As time went on and I didn't have so much debt (other than mortgages that I am not eager to pay off) it went to 10% to mortgage(s)/20% fun money/70% long term after tax savings (retirement) (the 10% to mortgages made me feel like I "did my duty" to pay down the mortgage.   My advice is if you feel "guilty" about spending some of the money on family "fun stuff" - just give yourself a percentage of the total and convince yourself it's OK to use the money on something you or your family wants. Having some already decided upon percentages for how I could divvy up a windfall, removed some of the angst and overthinking and "guilt" and decision making exhaustion about what to do with a windfall. It let me get right to HOW I was going to use each portion of the windfall - and how "ahead" I would get on savings or debt paydown (or whatever else was in the Windfall Distribution Percentages) and what fun thing I could use the "fun money" for. Allocate some of the money for "fun" and then go ahead and spend it.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Nov 4, 2021 13:16:20 GMT -5
Agree 100% - take the trip then put money into a brokerage account We put too much into 401k IRAs and now have unwanted amounts required to be withdrawn and taxed as income. Putting some into Roth’s now but this can only be done after taking the RMDs and increases our taxes and sometimes if we’re not careful triggers big IRMA payments on Medicare
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Nov 4, 2021 13:17:38 GMT -5
Another vote here for take the trip, and others!
Remember that as long as you have kids at home, you'll always be paying higher prices to travel during school vacations. You're in fabulous financial shape! You can afford it, so go, enjoy, and make memories together!
I took the Yale "Happiness" course during the first lockdown. Research has shown that spending money on experiences produces significantly greater happiness than spending it on "stuff". (No surprise there!)
My DS1 once voiced his regret that we only started taking "great vacations" (ie the US national parks) when he was older and unable to join us (sometimes also unwilling lol).
After grad school DS1 worked as a humanitarian aid worker for 10 years. So we solved that problem by "stalking" him (as we jokingly call it in our family). DH, DS3 and I visited DS1 in Panama, Vienna and Jordan, and took him away with us while we were there. We did the same when DD was in Laos for a year; we took DD around Laos, and to Thailand and Cambodia.
Such WONDERFUL memories, all of those trips!!! To me, travelling together is truly priceless!
PS Other thoughts: - You don't mention your mortgage ... it's probably negligible for you long term, but it MIGHT be worth paying off your house before retirement. - You're in a position where you can set your kids up with a down payment, IF you are interested, of course!
My ex is from a wealthy family. His parents (the grandparents of 3 of my 4 children) gifted their 4 grandkids enough money for a DP in this VHCOLA. My DS1 and DS2 bought their apartments. (DD hasn't yet for other, non-financial reasons.)
My best friend from the US is also wealthy ... she and her ex bought each of their 2 kids a home when they were little. I don't know the details but those houses ended up paying for their educations and the down payments on their first homes.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 4, 2021 13:36:51 GMT -5
OK, you know what I would do if I were in your financial position? ( I can't say 100%, but sorely tempted to. ) Quit, buy a camper, and take the kids to see all the national parks.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Nov 4, 2021 14:08:47 GMT -5
I got nothing on the other things you are looking for advice on... but this... I found it helpful to have a guideline for dealing with "windfalls" (and this sounds like a windfall). I would break apart windfall money by percentages - when I was in debt (various loans) it was 10% fun money/40% retirement money (Roth IRA)/50% to debt paydown. As time went on and I didn't have so much debt (other than mortgages that I am not eager to pay off) it went to 10% to mortgage(s)/20% fun money/70% long term after tax savings (retirement) (the 10% to mortgages made me feel like I "did my duty" to pay down the mortgage. My advice is if you feel "guilty" about spending some of the money on family "fun stuff" - just give yourself a percentage of the total and convince yourself it's OK to use the money on something you or your family wants. Having some already decided upon percentages for how I could divvy up a windfall, removed some of the angst and overthinking and "guilt" and decision making exhaustion about what to do with a windfall. It let me get right to HOW I was going to use each portion of the windfall - and how "ahead" I would get on savings or debt paydown (or whatever else was in the Windfall Distribution Percentages) and what fun thing I could use the "fun money" for. Allocate some of the money for "fun" and then go ahead and spend it. I do a rough % system too. Mine is something like 10% charity, 30% fun (usually trips), 30% home improvement - figuring there is a slight return on some of them and focusing on those that will improve our life, and 30% savings.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Nov 4, 2021 15:22:17 GMT -5
What are your goals? Do you want to RE, or to leave your empire to your kids, or live it up a little now? (Did you see the ibonds thread?) Who knows. DH is 5 years older and says he wants to retire by 60. Not sure if I will want to them or not, but no would like the option. That said, since he’ll be able to withdraw from his 529 at that age, we’d be fine. I want to leave some money to my kids, but also fully intend to enjoy retirement and want to continue to travel as long as we’re able. I haven’t seen the ibonds thread - I’ll go take a look.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Nov 4, 2021 15:24:01 GMT -5
I'm struggling with the same spend a little more money when it's rewarding. Couldn't let myself get a cleaning lady - wasteful spending. Geez - my life is so, so much better with her. Well worth the $200/month as I function way better with a clean house. Plus it makes us all pick up the night before and it's not me nagging. It's hey Robin is coming tomorrow and she can't see that we sometimes live like pigs LOL. I want a cleaning lady but DH does not. So maybe I’ll work harder on convincing him next year! For now, I make him do most of the cleaning since he’s the holdout!
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Nov 4, 2021 15:29:55 GMT -5
PS Other thoughts: - You don't mention your mortgage ... it's probably negligible for you long term, but it MIGHT be worth paying off your house before retirement. - You're in a position where you can set your kids up with a down payment, IF you are interested, of course! We paid off our house 5-ish years ago, so we’re completely debt-free. I’m not necessarily opposed to helping the kids with a down payment in the future, but not sure how DH feels about that. And it *seems* so far off, though the fact that my oldest starts college in 9 years means it might not be as far as off as I’d like to think. 😉
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Nov 4, 2021 15:31:50 GMT -5
OK, you know what I would do if I were in your financial position? ( I can't say 100%, but sorely tempted to. ) Quit, buy a camper, and take the kids to see all the national parks. That would be my nightmare. 😂🤣😉 DH jokes about getting an RV or camper, and I tell him over my dead body. I’d much rather fly than drive, and definitely prefer a hotel to a camper (or camping). We are probably going to do Yellowstone and Tetons this summer as that’s the other NPs at the top of DS’s wish list.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Nov 4, 2021 15:36:48 GMT -5
DEFINITELY get a cleaning lady!!! It's just math ... who gets paid more per hour? You? DH? or the cleaner? azucena can tell you, many of us bugged her for MONTHS before she hired one LOL. Like I said, my ex is very wealthy. After he left, I HUGELY reduced the cleaner's hours, but (second, keeper) DH and I still kept one. Time is money, and money is time. And I preferred to spend my free time with my kids rather than than scrubbing showers and toilets, even when I didn't have a lot of disposable income. I also consider hiring a cleaner a good way to "pass it on" ... That's the way I look at it. I understand that others may look at things differently.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Nov 4, 2021 15:40:17 GMT -5
I'm struggling with the same spend a little more money when it's rewarding. Couldn't let myself get a cleaning lady - wasteful spending. Geez - my life is so, so much better with her. Well worth the $200/month as I function way better with a clean house. Plus it makes us all pick up the night before and it's not me nagging. It's hey Robin is coming tomorrow and she can't see that we sometimes live like pigs LOL. I want a cleaning lady but DH does not. So maybe I’ll work harder on convincing him next year! For now, I make him do most of the cleaning since he’s the holdout! Cleaning lady dramatically improved our quality of life and decreased tension in regards to chores. Your husband is a fool. Once you make enough, it is an expense that is well worth it
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Nov 4, 2021 15:41:01 GMT -5
I’d much rather fly than drive, and definitely prefer a hotel to a camper (or camping).
We LOVE LOVE LOVE road trips, but feel the same way about hotels and campers!
We started to visit the national parks when DS2 was 16, DD was 11, and DS3 was 6. The first year it was Zion, Bryce, Grand Canyon, Joshua Tree. We chose moderate hotels (with pools except when we stayed IN the parks). I had ZERO desire to all sleep in the same "room" (ie a camper)! Staying in hotels allowed everyone to run around, use the pool, make friends, etc.
Since then we've been to the Everglades, Crater Lake, the Muir Woods, Redwood, Olympic.
That's another point ... you can afford to stay IN the parks ... and you should!
We went to Yellowstone the summer before Covid. We stayed near a rarely-used entrance in an absolutely FABULOUS place!!! I'd have my coffee on the patio while the deer walked through munching at the fruit trees.
My ONLY regret about that trip was not realizing how close Grand Teton was!!!
PPS It was the Yellowstone Gateway Inn in Gardiner. We all LOVED it!!! It had a kitchen, a supermarket across the street (with both groceries and ready meals), and plenty of restaurants a few blocks away.
I left my Filofax behind. We were about to turn around. They refused. They mailed it to my sister in NY, and they refused to let me reimburse them for postage.
I wanted to give them a glowing review but I couldn't, because DH's friend (who we went with) had made the reservation. I'm very happy to see that they have a 4.8 score on Booking!
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Nov 4, 2021 16:10:40 GMT -5
And I hate hotels, love my camper. My own beautiful quilts and sheets I know won't make me itch.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 4, 2021 16:38:28 GMT -5
OK, you know what I would do if I were in your financial position? ( I can't say 100%, but sorely tempted to. ) Quit, buy a camper, and take the kids to see all the national parks. That would be my nightmare. 😂🤣😉 DH jokes about getting an RV or camper, and I tell him over my dead body. I’d much rather fly than drive, and definitely prefer a hotel to a camper (or camping). We are probably going to do Yellowstone and Tetons this summer as that’s the other NPs at the top of DS’s wish list. Haha, I see. I camped at a couple NP's with no accommodations nearby, but I do remember a hotel or something at the grand canyon. (Not all campers are roughing it. My FIL had two different ultra deluxe ones--fancier than my house. Just saying. ;-)
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