thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 28, 2021 15:22:31 GMT -5
Most of my people are probably part of this. It describes both my sisters - has no clue that there are other types of people and believe their (husband's) success could have been done by anyone - but everyone else just didn't work hard enough. I acknowledge how sheltered I am, but my belief in the meritocracy has been eaten away. grow.acorns.com/the-semi-rich-americans-who-may-not-feel-wealthy/Meet the ‘semi-rich’: Millions of high-income Americans may not feel wealthy but are, says ‘The 9.9 percent’ author
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Oct 28, 2021 16:20:54 GMT -5
I work with some people in the 9.9%. Don't get me wrong, they take some vacations, kids attend private school, etc. They are comfortable for sure and have many of their wants. Most of that net worth is in their 401ks though. Sure, it's an asset but one that is intended to be spent down once they stop working.
To me wealthy is not worrying about the money coming in to pay bills. That's truly wealthy to me. I'm certainly comfortable myself but I wouldn't call it wealthy/rich. I've still got to go to work every day to keep that money coming in.
I think that's what I struggle with. I have a nice lifestyle. My DH and I work hard for it. But we don't worry about paying for groceries or the electric bill. And that makes us better off than a lot of others. At the same time I don't think I'm rich.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Oct 28, 2021 16:58:39 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems like $1.2M that is saved in order to replace a missing pension is a little different than $1.2 M in fun money. There should probably be a formula, by age, to adjust for this.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Oct 28, 2021 17:00:21 GMT -5
I think, for most of us who aren't multi-millionaires, our expenses equal our income so we don't feel "rich" but, for my own perspective, I look at the fact that I make, in 3-4 months, what A LOT of people make in one year. While I don't *feel* rich, I know I very much am in that regard. It amazes me when I see clients with MONTHLY budgets of $20,000, especially considering this ain't California or New Jersey with their overpriced property.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Oct 28, 2021 17:01:29 GMT -5
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Oct 28, 2021 17:01:40 GMT -5
Interesting but limited article. How many in this 9.9% category are there after years of hard work and saving? Mentions % white asian black and brown but if many in the 9.9% are older - the older population skews more white Absolutely education plays a huge part in getting jobs/income that help savings Many in our family have advanced degrees but our family is only first and second generation to go to college. Certainly when Jerseyguy and I were married we weren’t in the 9.9 but after getting advanced degree for me and working hard and living conservatively and spending on our kids education not new cars, not eating out etc we made into the 9.9 I’m not feeling bad about it but look at chances to help others
Inner city school failure infuriates me!!!! Locally in nort jersey , Paterson gets large amounts of money for the schools but in 2019,70% of kids FAILED competency exams Please, no way 70% of these kids are stupid - it’s a failure to teach
How many hurdles must these kids pass when they have been failed by their schools??? Disgusting!!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 28, 2021 17:29:40 GMT -5
I don't think the article is designed to make a value judgement on if you have to still work or not - it is just straight percentages when talking about the 0.1%, and the 90% - everyone else is in the 9.9 - if it is an 18 year old with a trust fund of $3M, or an 80 year old who has been saving his whole life and has a nice investment portfolio, or someone who has $3M in equity in properties that are earning money. It all counts as a household with $3M.
That said - when my hubs and I crossed the $2M mark and still had to get up and go to work, and we had a couple of old or cheap cars in the driveway of our modest house we decided that we definitely fell into the "rich" category - but it didn't look like the brochure. Being rich is mansions, and staff and private jets. We have none of that.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 28, 2021 17:51:56 GMT -5
I’m in the 9.9. I don’t feel rich. Yes, I’m fortunate, but I still have to go to work.
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minnesotapaintlady
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Oct 28, 2021 18:09:57 GMT -5
Woohoo! I'm "semi-rich!" 🤣
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 28, 2021 18:48:13 GMT -5
I think the comments have proven the point of the article. Almost none of my money is easily accessible in property equity or retirement accounts. The market could take a nose dive and the housing market crash, but I'm still in a 1000x better spot than most.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 28, 2021 18:52:48 GMT -5
We are semi-rich too.
But, clearly we are also not the target that the author is talking about, even though we value education, we have a nice enough house, and we won't have to spend retirement really worrying about money, unless the stock market goes down to 1980's numbers.
Our family has no time or money to "make this world an affordable place." Folks making less than 100K working multiple jobs shouldn't also be responsible for making society more equitable, just because we are apparently semi-rich. Save that for the families where able-bodied, mentally/emotionally SAHMs have full time nannies so the SAHM can invest in herself all day long. She's got the time. I don't.
I do my part. But, it's very, very small.
I actually find the article is dumb with it's assumptions.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Oct 28, 2021 19:05:19 GMT -5
I'll be in the 9.9 in the next 5 yrs or so. I didn't like the tone - I'm not part of income or wealth disparity. The 1% are a whole different realm and could do so much more for society by throwing true money that they will never need at problems.
I'm completely comfortable now but grew up poor and made 30k out of college. So I'll hoard most of my extra money for my future, provide private school education for my kids, and be charitable to specific causes.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Oct 28, 2021 19:11:37 GMT -5
Plus I'm too busy working my professional job with extra hours and raising my kids. I don't have extra time to volunteer. I do help at my kids' school and activities.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Oct 28, 2021 19:25:48 GMT -5
While I would love to read the article, the site won't let me without paying.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 28, 2021 19:54:20 GMT -5
IDK, There's a pretty huge lifestyle difference between someone with 1.2 million dollar Net Worth and a 20 million Net Worth.
1.2 million could be a paid off 500K house and 700K in financial assets (retirement savings, investment account, savings account). I'm guessing this person would still need to work/bring home a paycheck (assuming they are below SS age and do not have a pension).
20 million Net Worth - say a 5mil paid off house, 15 million in financial assets - 4% of 15m = 600K per year (if they FIre'd) heck 4% of 10million is 400K per year. Even if this person was use to a 1mil a year income - I have a hard time imaging how miserable they would be having to live on 600K or 400K per year. I guess they'd have to sell their private plane? or yacht? or sell their polo ponies??
I really hate when such a dramatic difference are used for these kinds of things.
From the article: I'm NOT saying someone with $1.2 million net worth isn't "wealthy" - they are... I'm just struggling to compare the "I feel poor" feeling between someone at 1.2M and someone at 20M. It's like night and day.
I'd be more sympathetic between a 1.2M and 5M comparison.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Oct 28, 2021 20:00:44 GMT -5
I think I am part of the 9.9 ( the very lower part) and I don’t feel rich. I am in my early 40s so that money would have to last a long time.
I be think one factor that makes a big difference is how many generations of your family have been on the 9.9? For us, DH and I are first generation in that category. My family was dirt poor growing up, there were some years (in the early 80s) where my dad had $18 a week for food, gas, insurance, etc. we skipped meals at home and my sister and I got fed because we went to a babysitter who included meals in her care cost. My parents took a few classes at community college but no degrees and my dad did physical labor for almost 50 years. I Still have fears I won’t have enough to eat even though I see our balances. I got here by both luck and hard work. I paid for school myself (except grad school which was paid since I was in the military) and while in undergrad and my masters worked full time every semester while going to school full time. It wasn’t fun and I missed a lot of social stuff in my 20s but it got me here...
My kids o the other hand, will probably never know that life. While we try not to spoil them, they get new toys and clothes (not stuff from goodwill), they go out to eat, and have been on an airplane ride. If they want to go somewhere, we usually don’t worry about cost.
Would I like to give back more? Yes. I am strapped for time though because I work full time and have kids. I donate to charities and try to help people u know who may not have as much (I was in a chain with my kids’ stuff where anything they outgrew/couldn’t use would get passed to someone who needed it and didn’t make much $$. I jet those folks through my relatives who aren’t part of the 9.9)
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 28, 2021 20:03:44 GMT -5
Isnt that the point though. Everyone besides Bezos can point to someone richer who should do more. A few years ago we had a poster complaining that it isn't really the 1% that's a problem. It's the .5% where the income really makes a difference. A poster I like and agree with on a lot of things, but maybe we have to accept that rich just isn't the fairy tale we imagine it to be.
I really think housing should be our first focus for lasting change. Owning a home starts the process of generational wealth, but before that just having a place to sleep every night creates stability to move forward.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Oct 28, 2021 20:32:19 GMT -5
I guess I would consider "wealthy" being able to indefinitely maintain a middle to upper middle (or more) class lifestyle without working. Someone with less saved, but receiving a generous pension and health benefits could be living it up a lot more than someone who had to amass some wealth and home equity to ride out retirement until social security and Medicare kicked in. That's why I mention a diy pension, because most people these days have to try to create their own "pensions" through 401ks. $1.2M is like a $48000/yr pension. Does that sound very wealthy?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 28, 2021 20:36:37 GMT -5
I guess I would consider "wealthy" being able to indefinitely maintain a middle to upper middle (or more) class lifestyle without working. Someone with less saved, but receiving a generous pension and health benefits could be living it up a lot more than someone who had to amass some wealth and home equity to ride out retirement until social security and Medicare kicked in. That's why I mention a diy pension, because most people these days have to try to create their own "pensions" through 401ks. $1.2M is like a $48000/yr pension. Does that sound very wealthy? To people who have never and will never earn that much money a year working full-time, yes.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Oct 28, 2021 20:43:03 GMT -5
I guess I would consider "wealthy" being able to indefinitely maintain a middle to upper middle (or more) class lifestyle without working. Someone with less saved, but receiving a generous pension and health benefits could be living it up a lot more than someone who had to amass some wealth and home equity to ride out retirement until social security and Medicare kicked in. That's why I mention a diy pension, because most people these days have to try to create their own "pensions" through 401ks. $1.2M is like a $48000/yr pension. Does that sound very wealthy? To people who have never and will never earn that much money a year working full-time, yes. Well, I'm looking at my family getting up closer to it, and dividing it by the two workers that are saving it, that comes out to $24k/year for each of us.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Oct 28, 2021 21:10:26 GMT -5
But is this really a thing?
Seems like they are forcing a thing where none exists.
Households with 1.2 million at 65 and those with 10 million at 35 are vastly different.
And their hodge podge of descriptors is just so bland, basically the average or expected values of anything.
Example:
OR…..
They could innocently get knocked up a few times and invest in Netflix in 2007ish and Tesla in 2019ish.
Just saying!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 28, 2021 21:14:13 GMT -5
But is this really a thing? Seems like they are forcing a thing where none exists. Households with 1.2 million at 65 and those with 10 million at 35 are vastly different. And their hodge podge of descriptors is just so bland, basically the average or expected values of anything. Example: OR….. They could innocently get knocked up a few times and invest in Netflix in 2007ish and Tesla in 2019ish. Just saying! Note the highlighted words above. Yes, there will be exceptions....
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Oct 28, 2021 21:15:13 GMT -5
But is this really a thing? Seems like they are forcing a thing where none exists. Households with 1.2 million at 65 and those with 10 million at 35 are vastly different. And their hodge podge of descriptors is just so bland, basically the average or expected values of anything. Example: OR….. They could innocently get knocked up a few times and invest in Netflix in 2007ish and Tesla in 2019ish. Just saying! Note the highlighted words above. Yes, there will be exceptions.... Note that my comment stands.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 28, 2021 21:15:42 GMT -5
I guess I would consider "wealthy" being able to indefinitely maintain a middle to upper middle (or more) class lifestyle without working. Someone with less saved, but receiving a generous pension and health benefits could be living it up a lot more than someone who had to amass some wealth and home equity to ride out retirement until social security and Medicare kicked in. That's why I mention a diy pension, because most people these days have to try to create their own "pensions" through 401ks. $1.2M is like a $48000/yr pension. Does that sound very wealthy? Even most of the 1% don't have that though. That was the argument I referenced - If I have to work I can't really be that rich no matter how much I make per year. Of course there are those upper echelon that never has to work but rralistically that isn't attainable and can't be the bench mark for rich.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Oct 28, 2021 21:26:11 GMT -5
I guess I would consider "wealthy" being able to indefinitely maintain a middle to upper middle (or more) class lifestyle without working. Someone with less saved, but receiving a generous pension and health benefits could be living it up a lot more than someone who had to amass some wealth and home equity to ride out retirement until social security and Medicare kicked in. That's why I mention a diy pension, because most people these days have to try to create their own "pensions" through 401ks. $1.2M is like a $48000/yr pension. Does that sound very wealthy? Even most of the 1% don't have that though. That was the argument I referenced - If I have to work I can't really be that rich no matter how much I make per year. Of course there are those upper echelon that never has to work but rralistically that isn't attainable and can't be the bench mark for rich. The 1% doesn't have to work to maintain that lifestyle. They work to maintain a richer lifestyle.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Oct 28, 2021 21:37:35 GMT -5
Yeah, so servant? Butler? Lol that is my definition of wealthy.
So likely 10 million minimum….
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Oct 29, 2021 6:22:40 GMT -5
I guess I would consider "wealthy" being able to indefinitely maintain a middle to upper middle (or more) class lifestyle without working. Someone with less saved, but receiving a generous pension and health benefits could be living it up a lot more than someone who had to amass some wealth and home equity to ride out retirement until social security and Medicare kicked in. That's why I mention a diy pension, because most people these days have to try to create their own "pensions" through 401ks. $1.2M is like a $48000/yr pension. Does that sound very wealthy? That's what my pension is. It's obviously subjective because I feel quite rich with it.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Oct 29, 2021 7:17:56 GMT -5
I guess I would consider "wealthy" being able to indefinitely maintain a middle to upper middle (or more) class lifestyle without working. Someone with less saved, but receiving a generous pension and health benefits could be living it up a lot more than someone who had to amass some wealth and home equity to ride out retirement until social security and Medicare kicked in. That's why I mention a diy pension, because most people these days have to try to create their own "pensions" through 401ks. $1.2M is like a $48000/yr pension. Does that sound very wealthy? That's what my pension is. It's obviously subjective because I feel quite rich with it. That's kinda my point. It's the same as having $1.2M, but that is not considered in this argument. (At least, I don't think it is.) If we included the value of pensions & retirement benefits, would $1.2M still be in the top 10%, or would it be higher and how much higher?
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minnesotapaintlady
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Oct 29, 2021 7:27:21 GMT -5
I guess I would consider "wealthy" being able to indefinitely maintain a middle to upper middle (or more) class lifestyle without working. Someone with less saved, but receiving a generous pension and health benefits could be living it up a lot more than someone who had to amass some wealth and home equity to ride out retirement until social security and Medicare kicked in. That's why I mention a diy pension, because most people these days have to try to create their own "pensions" through 401ks. $1.2M is like a $48000/yr pension. Does that sound very wealthy? Even most of the 1% don't have that though. That was the argument I referenced - If I have to work I can't really be that rich no matter how much I make per year. Of course there are those upper echelon that never has to work but rralistically that isn't attainable and can't be the bench mark for rich. I don't think 1 percenters HAVE to work. The lower cutoff is something like 11 million dollars. Maybe if they were used to making a million a year they wouldn't be able to maintain the same lifestyle quitting, but they could certainly could live quite comfortably for the rest of their lives no matter how old they were when they quit.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Oct 29, 2021 7:34:14 GMT -5
Location will play a big part in how rich you may feel on any given income.
I mean, some people in Frisco make $100,000/yr but are homeless.
I don't know anyone who would feel monetarily rich if they're homeless.
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