billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 11, 2021 0:13:14 GMT -5
Would it have been possible to set up a system of allocating stock options in a way that the select few at the top were allocated less and those throughout the company received some or more? I think one of the challenges of your proposal is that the few at the top take stock options in place of a portion of their cash compensation. Other employees throughout the company are often unable or unwilling to work for less than market value cash compensation and to gamble that, at some point in the future, the stock options will compensate for the opportunity cost of several years of reduced wages/salary. "in place of" or on top of their cash compensation? There does not have to be a reduction in wages/salary if there is a net zero in the stock options given.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 11, 2021 7:17:02 GMT -5
I think one of the challenges of your proposal is that the few at the top take stock options in place of a portion of their cash compensation. Other employees throughout the company are often unable or unwilling to work for less than market value cash compensation and to gamble that, at some point in the future, the stock options will compensate for the opportunity cost of several years of reduced wages/salary. "in place of" or on top of their cash compensation? There does not have to be a reduction in wages/salary if there is a net zero in the stock options given. In Musk's case, he does not take a wage from Tesla. Never has. I am not saying these companies do not over compensate some CEO's Many do. I assume Tesla employees are working over minimum wage, although I also believe they are not working at the normal auto Union negotiated wages as they are not unionized. Apple, heck their workforce is primarily over sea workers, ec=xcept for the techies in California and retail stores across the country. Techies are well compensated. Pribably same for the techs at FB Amazon, is the elephant in the room, pay level wise but they beat the usual retail hourly rate across the country, or at least did in past years.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 11, 2021 9:35:22 GMT -5
"in place of" or on top of their cash compensation? There does not have to be a reduction in wages/salary if there is a net zero in the stock options given. In Musk's case, he does not take a wage from Tesla. Never has. I am not saying these companies do not over compensate some CEO's Many do. I assume Tesla employees are working over minimum wage, although I also believe they are not working at the normal auto Union negotiated wages as they are not unionized. Apple, heck their workforce is primarily over sea workers, ec=xcept for the techies in California and retail stores across the country. Techies are well compensated. Pribably same for the techs at FB Amazon, is the elephant in the room, pay level wise but they beat the usual retail hourly rate across the country, or at least did in past years. I dunno, I saw a headline that Musk sold $5 billion in stock. That still might be a bit overcompensating.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Nov 11, 2021 10:23:32 GMT -5
In Musk's case, he does not take a wage from Tesla. Never has. I am not saying these companies do not over compensate some CEO's Many do. I assume Tesla employees are working over minimum wage, although I also believe they are not working at the normal auto Union negotiated wages as they are not unionized. Apple, heck their workforce is primarily over sea workers, ec=xcept for the techies in California and retail stores across the country. Techies are well compensated. Pribably same for the techs at FB Amazon, is the elephant in the room, pay level wise but they beat the usual retail hourly rate across the country, or at least did in past years. I dunno, I saw a headline that Musk sold $5 billion in stock. That still might be a bit overcompensating. Musk sold stock to raise money to pay taxes on stock options that are coming due - about $9 BILLION in taxes www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/elon-musks-possible-tesla-share-sale-comes-as-the-taxman-looms-11636482029
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 11, 2021 11:34:14 GMT -5
Oh no - Only $291 billion left - how will he survive? He may have to start a go-fund-me.
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 11, 2021 13:48:11 GMT -5
In Musk's case, he does not take a wage from Tesla. Never has. I am not saying these companies do not over compensate some CEO's Many do. I assume Tesla employees are working over minimum wage, although I also believe they are not working at the normal auto Union negotiated wages as they are not unionized. Apple, heck their workforce is primarily over sea workers, ec=xcept for the techies in California and retail stores across the country. Techies are well compensated. Pribably same for the techs at FB Amazon, is the elephant in the room, pay level wise but they beat the usual retail hourly rate across the country, or at least did in past years. I dunno, I saw a headline that Musk sold $5 billion in stock. That still might be a bit overcompensating. Agreed and that was only for something like less than five milion shares or so. The thing is, when they elect to trigger their stock options (buy them) they have to pay the Federal and state taxes on the difference between the option and the price of the shares at the time they bought them. Fedral government and state love this as they get all this revenue. I will try to find the article telling how much income tax he owed on this transaction.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 11, 2021 13:50:54 GMT -5
I dunno, I saw a headline that Musk sold $5 billion in stock. That still might be a bit overcompensating. Agreed and that was only for something like less than five milion shares or so. The thing is, when they elect to trigger their stock options (buy them) they have to pay the Federal and state taxes on the difference between the option and the price of the shares at the time they bought them. Fedral government and state love this as they get all this revenue. I will try to find the article telling how much income tax he owed on this transaction. okay here an article on the Musk transaction www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/business/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale.htmlfrom the article: Elon Musk, the chief executive of Tesla, disclosed on Wednesday that he had sold about $5 billion worth of Tesla shares, in part to cover his tax obligations after exercising options on a large tranche of stock. Mr. Musk sold about 4.5 million shares between Monday and Wednesday, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Tesla’s stock closed trading on Wednesday at $1,067.95, which would value the shares at about $4.8 billion, but some were sold for slightly higher prices. In the filings, Mr. Musk said he had sold about a million of the shares “solely” to cover taxes on 2,154,572 shares he picked up at $6.24 each.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 11, 2021 14:04:19 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to have to go back and read earlier in this thread more carefully, because I'm seeing arguments for sharing company stock more equally among employees, and you're all, "He HaD tO pAy HiS tAxEs". Apparently, I'm missing something here, because he'd have less taxes to pay if others picked up the slack by making more.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Nov 11, 2021 15:37:14 GMT -5
I think the media often misrepresents stock options and gains on stock options as if they are cash compensation. In reality, stock options have a compensation element (the value of the stock when the options were awarded) and an investment element (the change in the value of the options from when they were awarded until when the options were exercised). Stock options behave as if an employee has taken part of their paycheck and purchased stock in their employer. The employee who has stock options takes the same market risk as an investor who buys stock through their stock broker. Rather than vilifying CEOs as over compensated when they realize gains on their stock options, I think that gains on stock options should be recognized as long term gains on an investment.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 11, 2021 15:38:29 GMT -5
Oh no - Only $291 billion left - how will he survive? He may have to start a go-fund-me. If he cuts out lattes and avocado toast he should be just fine.
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 11, 2021 22:15:10 GMT -5
Oh no - Only $291 billion left - how will he survive? He may have to start a go-fund-me. If he cuts out lattes and avocado toast he should be just fine. You do realize you are dissing the savior representing the green movement and all democrats in D.C. How dare you! He is saving the world!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 12, 2021 9:49:22 GMT -5
If he cuts out lattes and avocado toast he should be just fine. You do realize you are dissing the savior representing the green movement and all democrats in D.C. How dare you! He is saving the world! Musk is a conservative and a dick. Progressives don't love him. They do like some of his technology, but he could drop dead at this point and there would be rejoicing. BTW - you never answered my questions about Biden and inflation. I am truly interested in hearing what steps could be taken to improve the situation.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 13, 2021 14:23:14 GMT -5
You do realize you are dissing the savior representing the green movement and all democrats in D.C. How dare you! He is saving the world! Musk is a conservative and a dick. Progressives don't love him. They do like some of his technology, but he could drop dead at this point and there would be rejoicing. BTW - you never answered my questions about Biden and inflation. I am truly interested in hearing what steps could be taken to improve the situation. Was this asked On this thread, or possibly the Bidenflation thread? Let me know. lately I have been flooded with 15 or more notifications and when I click on notifications, sometimes I do miss some of them after clicking on a bunch of them. Let me know which one and I will try to get back to you either tomorrow or Monday. Have to get ready for this evening. Heading out to an outdoor venue on the Peace river for dinner and drinks and listening to our favorite local band tonight. Have to get the Florida vibe in bigtime before rolling back north for the Holidays THANKS
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Nov 16, 2021 19:49:30 GMT -5
I wonder what the economic prospects for POC were in the 50s and 60s. Were they better off financially than they are now? We always talk about how easy it was to make a good living, but I have never seen the stats by race. How about women. If you wanted to be a physician or lawyer, too bad, it wasn't ladylike. The pining for the "good old days" of the 50's always amazes me. It wasn't so good for a portion of the population. When someone is nostalgic for a time when an ordinary guy could easily get a job that would get give him a good living, does it really make sense to automatically assume that the only reason for his nostalgia is because he wants to keep women and brown people down, and then denounce that person as a hate filled racist and misogynist? Why are you assuming that every person who wants the good things from a bygone era really only wants the bad things? When someone says they don’t want to throw out all the illegal aliens, does that automatically mean they enthusiastically support every rape and murder done by an illegal alien and have zero compassion for the victims? How would you feel if someone made such an ugly and ridiculous accusation against you? Would that person be able to persuade you to vote for their candidate?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Nov 16, 2021 20:05:17 GMT -5
How about women. If you wanted to be a physician or lawyer, too bad, it wasn't ladylike. The pining for the "good old days" of the 50's always amazes me. It wasn't so good for a portion of the population. When someone is nostalgic for a time when an ordinary guy could easily get a job that would get give him a good living, does it really make sense to automatically assume that the only reason for his nostalgia is because he wants to keep women and brown people down, and then denounce that person as a hate filled racist and misogynist? Why are you assuming that every person who wants the good things from a bygone era really only wants the bad things? When someone says they don’t want to throw out all the illegal aliens, does that automatically mean they enthusiastically support every rape and murder done by an illegal alien and have zero compassion for the victims? How would you feel if someone made such an ugly and ridiculous accusation against you? Would that person be able to persuade you to vote for their candidate? Tell someone who believes you. People pining for “the good old days” are in a privileged class. You do not see those who would have been at the bottom, do you? Funny isn’t it?
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Nov 17, 2021 11:32:00 GMT -5
How about women. If you wanted to be a physician or lawyer, too bad, it wasn't ladylike. The pining for the "good old days" of the 50's always amazes me. It wasn't so good for a portion of the population. When someone is nostalgic for a time when an ordinary guy could easily get a job that would get give him a good living, does it really make sense to automatically assume that the only reason for his nostalgia is because he wants to keep women and brown people down, and then denounce that person as a hate filled racist and misogynist? Why are you assuming that every person who wants the good things from a bygone era really only wants the bad things? The "ordinary guy" could easily get those jobs BECAUSE the non-white guys and women were excluded. That's the reason. It's part of the equation. Now, if they were oblivious to the fact that they had an unfair advantage, and that everyone else (non-white guys + all women) was excluded from the good job pool, well, the best I can say is they aren't very bright. If they are aware of the discrepancy, then, yes, they want to continue to benefit from their racism and misogyny. Where did this assumption, that illegal aliens are responsible for "every rape and murder", come from? Rape and murder are committed by citizens, too, sometimes even by very fine upstanding citizens! Illegal aliens are also just as likely to be the victims of crime, perhaps even more likely because their status makes them more vulnerable/afraid to report a crime.
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minnesotapaintlady
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Nov 17, 2021 13:50:51 GMT -5
Where did this assumption, that illegal aliens are responsible for "every rape and murder", come from? Rape and murder are committed by citizens, too, sometimes even by very fine upstanding citizens! Illegal aliens are also just as likely to be the victims of crime, perhaps even more likely because their status makes them more vulnerable/afraid to report a crime. I think you misinterpreted the paragraph you quoted...or I did.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Nov 17, 2021 21:32:41 GMT -5
Where did this assumption, that illegal aliens are responsible for "every rape and murder", come from? Rape and murder are committed by citizens, too, sometimes even by very fine upstanding citizens! Illegal aliens are also just as likely to be the victims of crime, perhaps even more likely because their status makes them more vulnerable/afraid to report a crime. I think you misinterpreted the paragraph you quoted...or I did. Yes, I did interpret it, shall we say, overzealously. I did it to draw attention to the implicit interpretation buried in the original post - that illegal aliens are the ones committing rapes and murders. And as no one else is mentioned, and there are no qualifiers (some of..), as written it implies they are the only ones committing these crimes. Why are illegal aliens singled out as committing these crimes? What does their immigration status have to do with rape and murder? What about other crimes? It's a red herring, thrown in to confuse the issue. It also conveniently links illegal alien and rapist/murderer in our minds by association, just by sheer repetition. Who was it that first planted these insidious seeds?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 2, 2021 9:00:09 GMT -5
I think you misinterpreted the paragraph you quoted...or I did. Yes, I did interpret it, shall we say, overzealously. I did it to draw attention to the implicit interpretation buried in the original post - that illegal aliens are the ones committing rapes and murders. And as no one else is mentioned, and there are no qualifiers (some of..), as written it implies they are the only ones committing these crimes. Why are illegal aliens singled out as committing these crimes? What does their immigration status have to do with rape and murder? What about other crimes? It's a red herring, thrown in to confuse the issue. It also conveniently links illegal alien and rapist/murderer in our minds by association, just by sheer repetition. Who was it that first planted these insidious seeds? If we are so worried about rapists we should start on college campuses and with creepy step-fathers.
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