After someone passes

[geenamercile]

Hey all,

My uncle passed away tonight.  I am going to be helping my aunt with all the paperwork and what needs to be done, but never been through this myself.  What do I need to think of and look out for.  Just from talking to her tonight everything is pretty much in both of their names.  She did already take care of all of the household bills.  Their house is paid off.  She is 64 and he was 84.  They have enough savings for her to cover bills and when she turns 65 she will put in for her social security.  He has a ton of subscriptions we will need to cancel for things like monthly protein powders.  The cars are all paid off, (they have 3).  They had been planning of trading hers and the truck in for a smaller truck for her, she would still like to do that but maybe add his in as well.  Do we need to get his name off the title before doing that?  Do we need to get the house only in her name?  She said he still has a life insurance policy.  Also how do we let social security know.  I am assuming we aren't going to be able to do anything until we get death certificates.  Thank you all in advance.     

[geenamercile]

They did both have wills, that left everything to the one who survived.  

[swamp]

Go see a lawyer.

[pulmonarymd]

Drumming up business?

[movinonup]

geenamercile So sorry for your loss.  Document all assets.  You will have to get multiple copies of the death certificate because everyone will want a copy.  The insurance company will want one.  The banks will want one.  The DMV will want one in order to change the title on any vehicles in his name, though you will probably have to go there in person and won't have to leave it with them.      

Here is a link to social security for surviving spouses.

Here's a financial checklist.  I actually didn't think of calling the credit bureaus.  

This is plenty to get you started.

-movinonup 

[dannylion]

The funeral home will notify Social Security.  

If there is a website for the life-insurance company, check there first to see if there are instructions for how to start the claim, which you might be able to do online.  It should be fairly simple, and if it is one of the major companies, likely will not take long at all.  Otherwise, there should be contact information so you can call the company and get the claim started.  

Consider enlisting the help of a lawyer who specializes in estates.  As I recall from settling my father's estate, there is a lot to do and some specific deadlines, which can seem overwhelming to an ordinary mortal but for which an estate lawyer will already have practices and procedures in place to take care of it all.  

[busymom]

When it comes to estates, I highly recommend working with a lawyer.  If all of their ducks are in a row, it really isn't horribly expensive.


To answer questions, yes, the house & other assets (cars, savings accounts, etc.) will need to be put in the name of the surviving spouse.  Everything from utility bills to credit card accounts need to be changed to the surviving spouse.  Listen to the attorney, as they will walk you through the process, and submit required paperwork that your state requires.


Oh, and get LOTS of copies of the death certificate.  I didn't order nearly enough after the loss of one of my parents.  It's ridiculous how many places require a copy.


So sorry for your loss.  

[MN-Investor]

It seems to me that the funeral home took care of notifying the Social Security Administration when my husband passed away. My sweetie was 63 and not collecting Social Security at that time, so that wasn't an issue. But just ask the funeral home if that's something they do.

As far as your aunt and social security, check it out NOW as far as what her surviving benefit would be versus what her own benefit would be. I stopped at my local SSA office the month after my husband passed away and was surprised to find out that it made sense for me to start taking social security immediately. There was very little difference between my own benefit and my survivor benefit, but I would definitely lose out by waiting.

[TheOtherMe]

The funeral home notified Social Security when dad died but we had to notify his former employer who paid a pension.  They wanted a photocopy of the death certificate.  

For both mom and dad, we had to show an original death certificate to the bank.  When dad died, the attorney had to have an original to file with the estate.

For mom, we never opened an estate.  They owned no property other than household goods.  Everything was  in cash at the same bank.

She received a pension and a photocopy was allowed for that.  

[kadee79]

I had to have about 10-12 copies of my first hubby's death certificate.  Even the stupid bag phone (cell phone) place wanted a copy for me to cancel the account since it was in his name.  Otherwise, I couldn't cancel it....and they were still going to bill him....good luck collecting that.


ETA...And be sure she retains at least 1 copy of that death certificate cause you will be surprised when an occasion will pop up where it is needed.  I had to have it go get remarried.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Condolences, 

[tskeeter]

Be sure to ask for refunds for unused services and unused portions of subscriptions (many will suggest that subscriptions be allowed to run out and not be renewed; ask for a refund instead).

Dad had paid his long term care insurance premium shortly before he passed away.  When I notified the insurance carrier that he had passed away, they did not offer a refund.  If I had not asked for a refund, I believe the insurance company would have kept the nearly $1,400 refund that Dad’s estate was due.

[tskeeter]

Get lots of original death certificates.  They are much less expensive if you get what you need right away than if you have to get one or two more originals later on.

Many folks will not accept a photocopy of a death certificate. Even if they don’t keep the death certificate for their records, they do want to view an original.  Because Dad was the surviving spouse and we were disposing of all the assets, we got 24 original death certificates.  So far, we’ve used about 18 of them

[tallguy]

I did my mother's estate about 20 years ago.  I was surprised that quite a few places accepted a photocopy of the death certificate.  I had ordered ten (I recall anything over five costing ten bucks each) and only used three or four originals.  There may not in fact be a need to pay for that many extras.

As far as Social Security, at age 64 it is definitely worth it to check out different claiming strategies.  There is no "deemed filing" requirement with survivor's benefits as there is with spousal.  That means she can either claim on her own record now and switch to her husband's record at any time up to her full retirement age, or claim on her husband's record now and switch to her own any time she wishes.  The best strategy for anyone is to figure out what the survivor benefit would be at FRA and what her own benefit would be at age 70 after earning the delayed retirement credits.  Maxing out the larger benefit is generally advisable, but you will have to check the actual numbers.  

This part may not apply to you, but is a good idea for anyone else settling someone's estate.  If the decedent had a number of credit cards (and assuming of course that there are funds available in the estate to pay the debts AND that you have the ability to pay them off yourself) you can call the company to notify them of the death and ask if they want to either wait until the estate is settled for payment or accept an offer now.  They will generally offer you (in my experience) a 15-25% discount off the final total to receive immediate payment (thus saving more for heirs) and close the account.  Not one offered me less than 15%, as I recall, but again that was years ago.  Not sure if this would apply to joint accounts with a surviving spouse as I never had to deal with those.  

[Tiny]

Just an FYI on the Death Certificates... the "magic" is in the "certified" seal on the certificate. Some places will NOT accept a photocopy/scan of a certified certificate. They want to have or see the "certified" certificate.

It's generally less expensive to order a lot of them. decades ago when my mom died we went thru 10 "original certified" death certificates. I had to order 2 additional ones a year after her death because I didn't have anymore. I paid more for 2 than for the 10 we started with.

A friend ran into the same thing 6 years ago when her dad died. The extra certificates she needed were super expensive.

I can't tell you how to estimate how many you will need. Perhaps there's a list of things that need them online and you can guestimate from that - or perhaps the funeral home may have some suggestions or maybe the lawyer who helps you.

after thinking about this a bit... I think the issue is the surprise that additional certificates cost so much -it wasn't that we didn't have the money - it just felt like we were being taken advantage of.     I think it wouldn't have felt so wrong... if we were aware of the potential added expense at the start.  That way it would have been more of a "sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windshield"  (dang, made the best guess at how many I would need but I should have ordered more... wow that's expensive but OK here's my money.)   rather than a "hey! are you taking advantage of me?  How is this fair? why is this so expensive?" 

[buystoys]

We just ordered 15 death certificates when mom passed.  Sis has already used a number of them.  She had to have one for the bank to take mom's name off the accounts, one for each credit card, and one for each credit agency.  We froze her credit as well.  The life insurance needed one and her annuity needed one.  I think sis has three left?  It's a small number anyway.

My condolences on your loss.

[Deleted]

Oct 26, 2021 20:31:32 GMT -5 MN-Investor said:

It seems to me that the funeral home took care of notifying the Social Security Administration when my husband passed away. My sweetie was 63 and not collecting Social Security at that time, so that wasn't an issue. But just ask the funeral home if that's something they do.

It may even be a legal requirement.  H's estate was very simple since nearly everything was in my name, but he had about $300 in a checking account.  B of A actually contacted me first before I could get around to them and sent me the forms.

I actually didn't need as many death certificates as I ordered but even Costco wanted to see one so I could get his name off the account!

And check the Unclaimed Funds site periodically, including a few years down the road, i case there are accounts you didn't now about.  DS got about $1,000 as my Ex's heir.

[TheOtherMe]

Dad had a landline.  To close that account, it took a photocopy of the death certificate.  I told them we were not paying as of the date I called.  They never sent a bill but didn't close the account until the photocopy was received.  Had to go to the bank to fax the photocopies for everyone.

[giramomma]

I'm sorry for your loss.

If there's money to hire a lawyer, please do it.

My mom decided the DIY method.

It's going to be a year soon, and I'm pretty sure not everything is taken care of, still. Also, I'm pretty sure my mom didn't put the notice in the papers so that she doesn't have to pay bills after a certain amount of time.

The biggest thing I can suggest is also seeing a financial person ASAP, to ensure that any changes to savings is done while the IRS considers your aunt married. I am very afraid of my mom's future choices because of the income tax ramification. I think she's going to end up going from the 12% tax bracket to at least the 22%, if not the 24% if she has to divest assets. I think mom will use that as an excuse to avoid making the right choice,

My parents had wills. From the late 80s. Mom noted that many of the folks noted in the will had also passed away. So, as soon as your aunt can handle it, get the will updated.

The other thing I would try to get a handle on is any medical needs your aunt might have. My mom is older, but she needs still to get cataract surgery on one eye.  At mom's drs, she needs someone to drive her there both the day of treatment and the next day for follow up. That's still on the the to-do list, and will now likley have to wait until next spring if she wants my help.

Above all, your Aunt is the driver in what she can and will do. You have no control and you have to go at her pace.. Having other things for me to work on while I was with mom was very helpful. Sometimes, mom wanted company and just to sit and watch tv. I can't do that, so having some crafts along was nice. Plus, it helped me with dealing with the fact that whatever I was going through just didn't matter.

[Bonny]

My condolences. You are kind to help out your aunt. Does she have any children? If so be mindful of your place in the family dynamic.

I agree with others that if there are funds to pay for an estate lawyer you should consider using one. The process will go faster and will be less emotional.

I'll repeat what someone said upthread about notifying the credit bureaus. Someone did attempt to open up credit under my deceased mother's name.

[geenamercile]

Thanks all.  We are going to go to the Lawyer who did the wills to start with.  Family dynamics won't be an issue.    

[nidena]

So sorry on your loss.

Getting everything settled can take some time.  We've had clients who passed in May 2020 with sizeable estates that went to the widow that still aren't settled because of tax paperwork.  It has to do with them being near some sort of estate tax threshold and ensuring the correct papers are filed to protect the (still young) widow from having to pay a poop-ton of taxes.  Other clients passed this spring and their estate is still being settled.  In another situation, a friend passed two or three years ago and it's still not settled.

I share this so you can tell you aunt to expect this to take some time and it will take the mindset of the tortoise and not the hare to get through it.

[tskeeter]

Oct 27, 2021 14:56:11 GMT -5 nidena said:

So sorry on your loss.

Getting everything settled can take some time.  We've had clients who passed in May 2020 with sizeable estates that went to the widow that still aren't settled because of tax paperwork.  It has to do with them being near some sort of estate tax threshold and ensuring the correct papers are filed to protect the (still young) widow from having to pay a poop-ton of taxes.  Other clients passed this spring and their estate is still being settled.  In another situation, a friend passed two or three years ago and it's still not settled.

I share this so you can tell you aunt to expect this to take some time and it will take the mindset of the tortoise and not the hare to get through it.

Settling estates is a lengthy process.  Dad died in July 2019.  I expect to have the final distribution of assets to the heirs done next week and the final accounting completed by the end of the year.  Even though Dad had things pretty well set up and DW and I worked diligently at moving things along, it’ll still taken 2 1/2 years.

[jerseygirl]

I did probate for my sister, she had simple estate. A condo that was in a trust for her, sold it snd proceeds divided among her niece and nephews (my kids). No other assets than a checking account that SS direct deposited that I was representative payee (she was disabled all her life). I stopped her credit cards, gas snd electric just by calling. Actually I said I was her when I did this. She was deaf and learning disabled and I took care of all her bills etc. I found early on if I said I was her sister that these companies wanted a power of attorney to be reviewed by their lawyers, etc etc. so after doing this a few times and wading through stomach clenching problems I just said I was her.
Probate clerk in our county was very helpful with paperwork and will was clear about beneficiaries. Process was clearly explained on the county website also
Took about 6 months mostly because older son procrastinated signing documents

[TheOtherMe]

It took almost 12 months to finalize my dad's estate that was cash only.

[NoNamePerson]

Oct 27, 2021 10:58:04 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

Thanks all.  We are going to go to the Lawyer who did the wills to start with.  Family dynamics won't be an issue.    

You might want to talk with CPA also to discuss tax consequences. If they had one to do their taxes. Just a thought.  Sorry for your loss

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2021 17:45:05 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

It took almost 12 months to finalize my dad's estate that was cash only.

That's discouraging.  Dad left us about 3 X what  guessed he had after 18 months in LTC, God bless him, and since I don't need it my plan is to put roughly 90% into the 529s and give 10% to charity, both over the next 10 years.  I was hoping to make a first IRA distribution by the end of the year.  It's all in Fidelity and we're the beneficiaries of the IRA but who knows?  The rest is in a revocable trust.

Lots of good advice here.  One observation- don't rush to change over the utility bills.  DH's name is still on some and it's been 5 years.  They don't care that the checks come out of my account.  I see no advantage to going through the hassle of getting them in my name.  He's on the mortgage, too, although the title is in a trust that's in my name only.  Some of these items can at least be given very low priority.

[TheOtherMe]

It had to go through probate.  

We got the life insurance right away.  It wasn't much but it was outside the will.

Didn't even distribute the IRA until all the other monies were distributed.  Then my sister, the executor, didn't know his bank account was still open and had $$ in it so she had to call the attorney about that.  Divide it in half and close the account.  

She kept going to the bank to get statements for dad's accounts (still earning interest) so I don't know why no one noticed the checking account still had money in it.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

I had to go through this when my sister died. Anything that was just in her hubby’s name, I would call and let them know. They froze most of the accounts just on my word with us to follow up with a death certificate. I would do that for the stuff in his name only. She does need to be mindful of any automatic transactions in/out of his accounts. It seems to depend on the bank on his to handle. bOA would let deposits in but not withdraws. When I worked for the govt, one of our employees passed away. Usaa wouldn’t let us deposit his last check (they would reject the transaction).

Was he a veteran /getting any VA benefits? She will to let them know to stop that.

Make a spreadsheet where u have the account info, contact numbers, who you called and what they said. The first thing is taking care of the funeral and life insurance. By letting people know (even without the death certificate), you will get some time to take care of things.

She should call a lawyer to see if she needs probate.?we did for my sisters estate but it was only $2k (in Texas)

[NoNamePerson]

Oct 28, 2021 15:45:48 GMT -5 Mardi Gras Audrey said:

I had to go through this when my sister died. Anything that was just in her hubby’s name, I would call and let them know. They froze most of the accounts just on my word with us to follow up with a death certificate. I would do that for the stuff in his name only. She does need to be mindful of any automatic transactions in/out of his accounts. It seems to depend on the bank on his to handle. bOA would let deposits in but not withdraws. When I worked for the govt, one of our employees passed away. Usaa wouldn’t let us deposit his last check (they would reject the transaction).

Was he a veteran /getting any VA benefits? She will to let them know to stop that.

Make a spreadsheet where u have the account info, contact numbers, who you called and what they said. The first thing is taking care of the funeral and life insurance. By letting people know (even without the death certificate), you will get some time to take care of things.

She should call a lawyer to see if she needs probate.?we did for my sisters estate but it was only $2k (in Texas)

I called VA when my mother passed away since she received DIC. I didn't know if they would be notified like SS. SS was informed by funeral home I assume but I also called them since I had heard that they sometimes clawed back depending when person passed away. My name was on account so didn't want to close until I was really clear on it. I just remembered people talking about them taking monies back so better safe than sorry - but this was back in 96.