scgal
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Post by scgal on Jun 10, 2022 12:57:02 GMT -5
Ok so that makes some sense. What you are basically saying is the democrats push for EV is actually raising gas prices and crippling americans...yep that makes sense. I don't think it is all EV, I think it is also that technology has changed. My employer owns about 60 industrial/manufacturing buildings. Over the last several years many of the companies that lease our buildings have opted to change out the lighting to LED. It is much more energy efficient, reduces the electric bill substantially and gives off significantly less heat. I think the payback is very short, like just a couple of years. Why fight against something that is a positive? EV cars are not raising gas prices, the war in Ukraine and the embargo against Russian Gas are the main issue. There is also some false comparisons going on where the Pandemic drove down worldwide gas prices, and the recovery is raising prices outside the issue of the Russian Embargo. You are just too selfish to care about the inhumanity of that war. I get that this situation is unaffordable for lower income Americans, but I doubt you are in the group of people that can't afford it. I hate all wars....killing innocent people never made sense to me. I was just replying to the poster that said EV was part responsible. You are right the price does not affect me at all. At least not that I would care for myself, but people around me are struggling how much food they can buy vs gas to go to work. That's what I don't understand about the big EV push yes it may help down the road but don't the people who push this care about the people struggling I doubt it. Just like all political crap from both sides they just spew they blathering points. I don't want to see charts and graphs but talk to people and ask were they living better under Trump and his bullshit or Biden and his deer in the headlights
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jun 10, 2022 13:10:11 GMT -5
It seems obvious to me that the more EVs the less demand for gas, which should lower the price long term. However, the Repo-cons are owned by Big Oil so expect production declines and continued obscene profits, like now.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 10, 2022 13:25:14 GMT -5
I don't think it is all EV, I think it is also that technology has changed. My employer owns about 60 industrial/manufacturing buildings. Over the last several years many of the companies that lease our buildings have opted to change out the lighting to LED. It is much more energy efficient, reduces the electric bill substantially and gives off significantly less heat. I think the payback is very short, like just a couple of years. Why fight against something that is a positive? EV cars are not raising gas prices, the war in Ukraine and the embargo against Russian Gas are the main issue. There is also some false comparisons going on where the Pandemic drove down worldwide gas prices, and the recovery is raising prices outside the issue of the Russian Embargo. You are just too selfish to care about the inhumanity of that war. I get that this situation is unaffordable for lower income Americans, but I doubt you are in the group of people that can't afford it. I hate all wars....killing innocent people never made sense to me. I was just replying to the poster that said EV was part responsible. You are right the price does not affect me at all. At least not that I would care for myself, but people around me are struggling how much food they can buy vs gas to go to work. That's what I don't understand about the big EV push yes it may help down the road but don't the people who push this care about the people struggling I doubt it. Just like all political crap from both sides they just spew they blathering points. I don't want to see charts and graphs but talk to people and ask were they living better under Trump and his bullshit or Biden and his deer in the headlights What are you talking about? Increasing use of EVs does not cause an increase in gas prices. How could it? They do not use gas, so cannot be responsible for an increase in demand. If oil companies decrease production because they think demand will go down, then prices can go up. It is NOT, however, because of EVs. It is because of the decision to cut production. Even that is simplistic, because as many have noted there are many reasons for an increase in gas prices regardless of an increase in inflation. Are you intentionally misreading things here?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 10, 2022 13:36:05 GMT -5
It seems obvious to me that the more EVs the less demand for gas, which should lower the price long term. However, the Repo-cons are owned by Big Oil so expect production declines and continued obscene profits, like now. That plus the increase in self driving cars that don’t crash as much will allow us to have lighter cars that use less energy.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jun 10, 2022 13:50:26 GMT -5
I read something yesterday about how the oil industry is not interested in expanding because the downward trend is still there from electric and hybrid vehicles. The WFH movement because of the pandemic removed a lot of demand and apparently we are producing less than we did in 2019 now. So the companies have been making business decisions based on expected demand for the future and here we are. Its less about Biden than it is about the pandemic and changing demand based on changing types of vehicles. Ok so that makes some sense. What you are basically saying is the democrats push for EV is actually raising gas prices and crippling americans...yep that makes sense. No, she is saying that the fossil fuel industry made a business decision to reduce supply. Demand was reduced due to Covid lockdowns, which lead to oversupply which drove down prices. Now that demand is returning to "normal" levels, prices are increasing because of limited supply (more demand + Ukraine war + decision not to expand). The fossil fuel industry can make money, maybe more money, for less work, when prices increase as everyone is chasing the limited supply available now. Personally, I'd like to switch to an EV right now. But there's limited supply of those, too, driving up the price - because the auto industry has been dragging its feet about building more of them. And those tax incentives are designed for the wealthy! They are all non-refundable, so if I owe no taxes (low income), I get no tax break and pay MORE for the same car, vs. a wealthy person.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 10, 2022 14:00:11 GMT -5
I don't think it is all EV, I think it is also that technology has changed. My employer owns about 60 industrial/manufacturing buildings. Over the last several years many of the companies that lease our buildings have opted to change out the lighting to LED. It is much more energy efficient, reduces the electric bill substantially and gives off significantly less heat. I think the payback is very short, like just a couple of years. Why fight against something that is a positive? EV cars are not raising gas prices, the war in Ukraine and the embargo against Russian Gas are the main issue. There is also some false comparisons going on where the Pandemic drove down worldwide gas prices, and the recovery is raising prices outside the issue of the Russian Embargo. You are just too selfish to care about the inhumanity of that war. I get that this situation is unaffordable for lower income Americans, but I doubt you are in the group of people that can't afford it. I hate all wars....killing innocent people never made sense to me. I was just replying to the poster that said EV was part responsible. You are right the price does not affect me at all. At least not that I would care for myself, but people around me are struggling how much food they can buy vs gas to go to work. That's what I don't understand about the big EV push yes it may help down the road but don't the people who push this care about the people struggling I doubt it. Just like all political crap from both sides they just spew they blathering points. I don't want to see charts and graphs but talk to people and ask were they living better under Trump and his bullshit or Biden and his deer in the headlights How about we talk about the health effects of fossil fuels. Cars are a major driver of air pollution. On bad air days, ED visits and hospitalizations go up. Mortality also is affected by air pollution. Since many low income neighborhoods are built near highways, the disproportionate effect of this pollution falls on low income people. They then need to pay for medications, hospitalizations, doctors visits, and miss work. Does this meet your concern for low income people as a reason to get away from fossil fuels, or are you just repeating right wing talking points
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2022 15:14:34 GMT -5
I don't think it is all EV, I think it is also that technology has changed. My employer owns about 60 industrial/manufacturing buildings. Over the last several years many of the companies that lease our buildings have opted to change out the lighting to LED. It is much more energy efficient, reduces the electric bill substantially and gives off significantly less heat. I think the payback is very short, like just a couple of years. Why fight against something that is a positive? EV cars are not raising gas prices, the war in Ukraine and the embargo against Russian Gas are the main issue. There is also some false comparisons going on where the Pandemic drove down worldwide gas prices, and the recovery is raising prices outside the issue of the Russian Embargo. You are just too selfish to care about the inhumanity of that war. I get that this situation is unaffordable for lower income Americans, but I doubt you are in the group of people that can't afford it. I hate all wars....killing innocent people never made sense to me. I was just replying to the poster that said EV was part responsible. You are right the price does not affect me at all. At least not that I would care for myself, but people around me are struggling how much food they can buy vs gas to go to work. That's what I don't understand about the big EV push yes it may help down the road but don't the people who push this care about the people struggling I doubt it. Just like all political crap from both sides they just spew they blathering points. I don't want to see charts and graphs but talk to people and ask were they living better under Trump and his bullshit or Biden and his deer in the headlights that is not the best way to phrase the question, imo. i probably "lived better" under Trump- BEFORE THE PANDEMIC. since that time, it has really put a pinch on my lifestyle. the question is whether you blame Trump for that, or nobody. most Trump supporters blame nobody- or maybe Biden, for some bizarre reason. i blame Trump for about 90% of the deaths that happened, because they were clearly avoidable.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2022 15:21:08 GMT -5
Dow - 880 today. inflation worries.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jun 10, 2022 15:21:35 GMT -5
Question for you: Was it worth losing every ounce of respect I had, one of the few here who had any for you, to engage in that childish name calling of our former president? You are right it was childish. I usually try to hold myself to better manners. It must be difficult for you dealing with a Muslim African King.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Jun 10, 2022 15:28:36 GMT -5
You are right it was childish. I usually try to hold myself to better manners. It must be difficult for you dealing with a Muslim African King. lol. I don't care what his religion is. I thought he was smug. Just like I think Trump is a pompous ass.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 10, 2022 15:48:54 GMT -5
It must be difficult for you dealing with a Muslim African King. lol. I don't care what his religion is. I thought he was smug. Just like I think Trump is a pompous ass. Please define 'smug'.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Jun 10, 2022 15:52:14 GMT -5
lol. I don't care what his religion is. I thought he was smug. Just like I think Trump is a pompous ass. Please define 'smug'. why I think he is smug? He would pause after he said something with his head tilted back looking down his nose waiting for an applause.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 10, 2022 16:04:57 GMT -5
How do you know he was 'waiting for applause"? Our esteemed leader also pauses a lot. It's because he doesn't want to say the wrong thing, and weighs his words carefully.
Trump on the other hand, sounded like a pinball machine, with thoughts bouncing off one thing and then the other in a confusing stream of consciousness. He ALWAYS said the wrong thing. The stupid thing. The ignorant thing. Good leaders carefully consider what they're going to say.
However, if you think that's smug, it's on you.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 10, 2022 16:09:19 GMT -5
How do you know he was 'waiting for applause"? Our esteemed leader also pauses a lot. It's because he doesn't want to say the wrong thing, and weighs his words carefully. Trump on the other hand, sounded like a pinball machine, with thoughts bouncing off one thing and then the other in a confusing stream of conciousness. He ALWAYS said the wrong thing. The stupid thing. The ignorant thing. Good leaders carefully consider what they're going to say. However, if you think that's smug, it's on you. I also disagree with the poster about her idea of smugness, but Obama (in sharp contrast with his successor) was at least able to say applause-worthy things in an applause-worthy manner. Trump often sounded not only illiterate but incoherent with his rambling streams of ungrammatical nonsense.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 10, 2022 16:22:24 GMT -5
It must be difficult for you dealing with a Muslim African King. lol. I don't care what his religion is. I thought he was smug. Just like I think Trump is a pompous ass. You'd vote for that ignorant, pompous ass if he was running against a decent candidate who wanted to implement gun control. In a heartbeat.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 10, 2022 18:43:16 GMT -5
I read something yesterday about how the oil industry is not interested in expanding because the downward trend is still there from electric and hybrid vehicles. The WFH movement because of the pandemic removed a lot of demand and apparently we are producing less than we did in 2019 now. So the companies have been making business decisions based on expected demand for the future and here we are. Its less about Biden than it is about the pandemic and changing demand based on changing types of vehicles. Ok so that makes some sense. What you are basically saying is the democrats push for EV is actually raising gas prices and crippling americans...yep that makes sense. No I'm not saying that at all. Its insane IMO to link gas prices now to EV. When did gas become way expensive? When Putin decided he needed to takeover Ukraine. And I think its getting worse because gas/oil companies are betting on a possible world war and pricing that in now.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 10, 2022 18:54:25 GMT -5
why I think he is smug? He would pause after he said something with his head tilted back looking down his nose waiting for an applause. Its weird sometimes how differently people see things. I didn't really notice how often he does a head up head down thing then, but its apparently part of his style. I see Trump as more smug than Obama ever was, but it would not be the first word I'd use to describe either
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 10, 2022 18:57:27 GMT -5
You are right it was childish. I usually try to hold myself to better manners. It must be difficult for you dealing with a Muslim African King. Check out the YouTube video I posted. Obama starts singing Amazing Grace. Probably at some meeting of church leaders given who started singing with him. I'd be surprised to see any former President doing that except for perhaps Jimmy Carter.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2022 19:04:37 GMT -5
How do you know he was 'waiting for applause"? Our esteemed leader also pauses a lot. It's because he doesn't want to say the wrong thing, and weighs his words carefully. Trump on the other hand, sounded like a pinball machine, with thoughts bouncing off one thing and then the other in a confusing stream of conciousness. He ALWAYS said the wrong thing. The stupid thing. The ignorant thing. Good leaders carefully consider what they're going to say. However, if you think that's smug, it's on you. I also disagree with the poster about her idea of smugness, but Obama (in sharp contrast with his successor) was at least able to say applause-worthy things in an applause-worthy manner. Trump often sounded not only illiterate but incoherent with his rambling streams of ungrammatical nonsense. i think what most people describe as "smug" i would describe as "refined". in other words, he doesn't talk with a Southern accent, he doesn't limit himself to four syllables or less, etc. in other words, he doesn't come across as some dropout with the IQ of an 8th grader. you know, like half of the GOP.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jun 10, 2022 19:08:18 GMT -5
Obama is a great speaker.
trump is an entertainer promoting himself and encouraging the applause he needs.
Biden takes his time because of a shuddering problem and corrects his mistakes. Ever see trump correct himself?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 10, 2022 19:44:14 GMT -5
Obama is a great speaker. trump is an entertainer promoting himself and encouraging the applause he needs. Biden takes his time because of a shuddering problem and corrects his mistakes. Ever see trump correct himself? stuttering
Also, for those who don't know and want to slam Biden, the average IQ of people who stutter is 14 points higher than average, so it is generally indicative of higher intelligence rather than lower.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jun 10, 2022 20:04:13 GMT -5
Question for you: Was it worth losing every ounce of respect I had, one of the few here who had any for you, to engage in that childish name calling of our former president? You are right it was childish. I usually try to hold myself to better manners. For the record, it's also against the CoC here. I'd suggest you go have a read while I go and delete not only your comment but all the quotes as well.
Hint: Please don't quote shit like this because when it's caught, it *will* go even if the rest of your post is well thought out.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 12, 2022 15:17:38 GMT -5
It must be difficult for you dealing with a Muslim African King. Check out the YouTube video I posted. Obama starts singing Amazing Grace. Probably at some meeting of church leaders given who started singing with him. I'd be surprised to see any former President doing that except for perhaps Jimmy Carter. I believe that was in Charleston at the church where that terrorist shot a lot of people during a Bible study class. Everyone was expecting Obama to pontificate, but instead, he sang Amazing Grace. Extremely empathetic, graceful, and for a Christian person, very meaningful. Never felt that way during a Trump speech. Appalled, maybe. Disgusted. Frightened.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 12, 2022 16:30:51 GMT -5
I don't think it is all EV, I think it is also that technology has changed. My employer owns about 60 industrial/manufacturing buildings. Over the last several years many of the companies that lease our buildings have opted to change out the lighting to LED. It is much more energy efficient, reduces the electric bill substantially and gives off significantly less heat. I think the payback is very short, like just a couple of years. Why fight against something that is a positive? EV cars are not raising gas prices, the war in Ukraine and the embargo against Russian Gas are the main issue. There is also some false comparisons going on where the Pandemic drove down worldwide gas prices, and the recovery is raising prices outside the issue of the Russian Embargo. You are just too selfish to care about the inhumanity of that war. I get that this situation is unaffordable for lower income Americans, but I doubt you are in the group of people that can't afford it. I hate all wars....killing innocent people never made sense to me. I was just replying to the poster that said EV was part responsible. heck no, you were making up a story based on what I posted.You are right the price does not affect me at all. At least not that I would care for myself, but people around me are struggling how much food they can buy vs gas to go to work. That's what I don't understand about the big EV push yes it may help down the road but don't the people who push this care about the people struggling I doubt it. Just like all political crap from both sides they just spew they blathering points. I don't want to see charts and graphs but talk to people and ask were they living better under Trump and his bullshit or Biden and his deer in the headlights I don't know why understanding is hard, but OK. I lived like crap under Trump. The first year of his presidency felt like slogging through five years of hell. I kept wondering what the hell he would destroy next and why. When he tried to destroy American democracy and steal the election it was like the nightmare would never end.
Businesses set gas prices not Presidents. Refineries and starting new wells are a big expense. Both take more than 6 months to do. Is that easy enough to understand? In addition, refineries are running full tilt and the industry does not want to build new ones because several huge ones are coming online abroad.
Given at most 5% of our gas could have come from Russian sources pre the Ukraine invasion I am shocked at the price increase. Personally my gut says US oil companies are exporting even more gas since the invasion further tightening our supply and raising prices even further.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 12, 2022 17:05:06 GMT -5
If Trump is going to take credit for low gas prices at the end of his term which he did nothing to cause, I think he should take credit for the TP crisis and me needing to buy wipes a couple times because nothing was to be found.
I think some people link way too much to whoever happens to be in office.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 12, 2022 18:16:43 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 13, 2022 12:24:59 GMT -5
i love mustard. there is a lot made in France. what percentage of the world supply is Canada?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 13, 2022 13:48:19 GMT -5
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jun 13, 2022 15:31:45 GMT -5
Ok so that makes some sense. What you are basically saying is the democrats push for EV is actually raising gas prices and crippling americans...yep that makes sense. No, she is saying that the fossil fuel industry made a business decision to reduce supply. Demand was reduced due to Covid lockdowns, which lead to oversupply which drove down prices. Now that demand is returning to "normal" levels, prices are increasing because of limited supply (more demand + Ukraine war + decision not to expand). The fossil fuel industry can make money, maybe more money, for less work, when prices increase as everyone is chasing the limited supply available now. Personally, I'd like to switch to an EV right now. But there's limited supply of those, too, driving up the price - because the auto industry has been dragging its feet about building more of them. And those tax incentives are designed for the wealthy! They are all non-refundable, so if I owe no taxes (low income), I get no tax break and pay MORE for the same car, vs. a wealthy person. I don't think the Tax incentives are really designed for the wealthy. They were meant as an incentive to drive demand/acceptance of the EV products. Each automaker is allocated a pool of $$, and once that is used up then buyers no longer are eligible for the incentive for that brand. Tesla and GM have reached the limit. Toyota is expected to have used up the full rebates by the end of June, and then buyers will get a 50% credit. They expect that to be gone by the end of CY22, and at least for Toyota, I don't think you can get a RAV4 Prime by the end of the year, unless you put a deposit down and ordered it already. I thought Nissan's were close to used up too, but not sure. I would think Ford's would be used up soon too. So, Tesla, GM, Toyota, Ford, Nissan all have their EV products well established. Some people may have only wanted the products if they could get the rebate, but the Tesla, Toyota, Ford, GM products have a strong following and their costs should pretty much be recovered for the development of their EV products. I am not sure if it is the auto industry dragging their feet, I thought the limits were due to supply chain issues. evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jun 13, 2022 15:40:14 GMT -5
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