scgal
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Post by scgal on Sept 4, 2022 19:48:53 GMT -5
Interesting and not to be a jerk but what does any of that have to do with what I wrote. This: Ok...I said he was guilty of having documents the archives wanted. You posted the rules what I'm saying is I don't know if they will do anything about it not that they couldn't |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2022 19:49:46 GMT -5
So it okay for trump to withhold military aid to The Ukraine if they refused to provide any information they might have had on Biden or his family? First impeachment of Donald TrumpI don't think it was exactly like that maybe implied. Why do I get the impression I'm interacting with Marjorie Taylor Greene. |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Sept 4, 2022 19:56:17 GMT -5
I'm not using any theory at all but look at all the possibilities, it could be he had papers and sold them but until it is proven what there is is empty folders No you’re not looking at all the possibilities. You’re only looking for the options that mean Trump is perfectly legal and proper. Trump didn’t incite the J6 mob to insurrection because we can’t know for sure what Trump’s ‘intent’ was. Maybe he only meant for the rally attendees to just walk to the Capital, hold hands and sing “nearer my God to thee.” It’s possible. And it’s possible he only had empty classified envelopes stuck in his boxes of documents and mementos and he just forgot to mention that they were all empty envelopes. It could happen! Have you ever hear of Occam’s Razor? If you live in London and hear hoof beats approaching you on the street, it’s almost certainly going to be an approaching horse and not an approaching zebra? You’re looking only for the zebras and ignoring all the rampaging horses that surround you. No what you're doing is jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts. Fact Trump had document the archive wanted Fact Trump has documents marked classified (possibly classified possibly declassified) we shall see Fact There is empty folders. Were they empty when he loaded them, did he shred them, did he sell them? Hopefully a good investigation will find out. So out of all the facts there right now the only thing he is guilty of is having documents that he shouldn't have had. That is what he is guilty of and that alone one could argue he knows more classified information given 4 years in office than what was there probably dems will push something but he will receive no jail time. |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Sept 4, 2022 19:57:53 GMT -5
I don't think it was exactly like that maybe implied. Why do I get the impression I'm interacting with Marjorie Taylor Greene. Geez we don't have to see eye to eye but you don't have to do me like that |
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 4, 2022 19:58:45 GMT -5
Congratulations. In my many years of reading MANY stupid posts from MANY stupid people, this may be the stupidest thing I have ever read. It doesn't matter if he has seen them. It matters who else has seen them and where they are now. There is a very real chance that they have already been given to (or more likely sold to) people who most definitely should not have them, including our enemies. There is a very real chance that foreign agents have been able to access them due to the lax security at Mar-A-Lago, with or without the aid of staff there or Trump himself. Donald Trump already has a history of not only mishandling classified information but giving it to foreign agents, including the Russians. And of course he does, he can't help himself. Donald Trump is only about Donald Trump. That has been true since he was a toddler, and remains true as the emotional toddler he will always be. It is TOTALLY believable that he had documents in his desk to be able to pull them out to show visitors, in an attempt to impress them and demonstrate his "importance." It is even more believable that he had more nefarious thoughts in mind for them. That is who he is. That is who he will always be. Donald Trump has demonstrated to the world for several decades EXACTLY who and what he is. For some reason, you apparently cannot see it. Here's a clue: If you come upon a destroyed structure, with smoke rising from the ashes, scorch marks everywhere, melted residue, and hot spots underfoot, you can reasonably infer that there was a fire. You don't have to actually see the flames to conclude there was a fire there. What is even dumber is thinking that any of that is true with out any evidence. Empty folders is not evidence. Nobody following proper procedures is going to leave empty classified folders laying around to be picked up by just anyone. Documents stay in there until they are returned to where they belong and/or are disposed of properly. The first, and uncontroverted, crime here is to even have the documents in the first place. The second is obstruction, in both failing to return them and interfering with their recovery when agents originally went to retrieve them. He is almost certainly guilty under the Espionage Act as well, just based on what has been reported. If you go back to earlier in Trump's administration, his list of crimes is long. It is only because Republican Senate members failed to do their duty to convict on impeachment that he survived. Additionally, not only did the DOJ under William Barr fail to charge him for other matters, but they actively ran interference for him by releasing a distorted view of the facts. It is already known that he has multiple times mishandled classified information and publicized it or straight-out gave it to our enemies. A private citizen would likely have been imprisoned for many years or life just on the things that Trump has admitted to or bragged about! And none of this even includes the January 6th insurrection. I am likening you to someone who puts on a blindfold and then insists that NOBODY can see anything just because you can't.  |
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 4, 2022 20:02:53 GMT -5
So it okay for trump to withhold military aid to The Ukraine if they refused to provide any information they might have had on Biden or his family? First impeachment of Donald TrumpI don't think it was exactly like that maybe implied. Probably should have paid better attention.... |
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Post by Opti on Sept 4, 2022 20:21:14 GMT -5
No you’re not looking at all the possibilities. You’re only looking for the options that mean Trump is perfectly legal and proper. Trump didn’t incite the J6 mob to insurrection because we can’t know for sure what Trump’s ‘intent’ was. Maybe he only meant for the rally attendees to just walk to the Capital, hold hands and sing “nearer my God to thee.” It’s possible. And it’s possible he only had empty classified envelopes stuck in his boxes of documents and mementos and he just forgot to mention that they were all empty envelopes. It could happen! Have you ever hear of Occam’s Razor? If you live in London and hear hoof beats approaching you on the street, it’s almost certainly going to be an approaching horse and not an approaching zebra? You’re looking only for the zebras and ignoring all the rampaging horses that surround you. No what you're doing is jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts. Fact Trump had document the archive wanted Fact Trump has documents marked classified (possibly classified possibly declassified) we shall see Fact There is empty folders. Were they empty when he loaded them, did he shred them, did he sell them? Hopefully a good investigation will find out. So out of all the facts there right now the only thing he is guilty of is having documents that he shouldn't have had. That is what he is guilty of and that alone one could argue he knows more classified information given 4 years in office than what was there probably dems will push something but he will receive no jail time. So that's the lame talking point showing up on RW media? It's like you don't even know Trump. You think he'd remember that? He repeats the same stories over and over and has a hard time staying on topic. That is not a man that would retain much classified info unless of course it was his love of extramarital affairs of world leaders. They've found no declassified markings as of yet, so I won't be surprised if they never do. |
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Post by Opti on Sept 4, 2022 20:26:33 GMT -5
“All this crap the dems did to push him out of office and keep him from Running again”?? What “crap”?? Holding an election? How is that “crap”? That is what our country is founded on. Elections… will of the people. They happen every 4 years. The election that was held was fair and honest. No evidence was found of cheating or manipulation. Just because trump is a sore loser doesn’t make it true that there was any fraud. Even his people say so (Barr, Krebs). Are you speaking about the j6 committee? You don’t think it is te govt’s responsibility to find out what happened there? There was a riot that KILLED people. And multiple leaders, including our VP and house speaker were threatened to be killed. That’s not important enough to investigate? The first impeachment involved trying to withhold aid to another country until they spy on your political competition (who was a private US citizen at that point). You don’t see a problem with that? You think we should be using our foreign aid as a bargaining chip for our president’s personal grudges? What if it wasn’t him but some other official (secretary of state or military general) and they wanted info on another American they had a petty grudge with. That’s ok? You didn’t think the second impeachment because why  You think it’s ok for a president to lie to the people, get them riled up and have them threaten to kill your colleagues? I guess we have a very different opinion of what “low behavior” is… 1st impeachment was bogus. Trump was well within his right to have Biden looked into. 2nd impeachment was bogus no real evidence of him telling them to storm the capital fight like hell is not the same thing Wow. Both impeachments were legit. Trump is recorded trying to strong arm Zelensky. And no, he does not have the right to investigate a citizen or politician using the US's money that is promised elsewhere. It was pretty sketchy that he sent Rudi to dig up dirt on Hunter in Russia. Messing with Ukraine was illegal. Again, people who actually stormed the Capitol believed he told them to. They really thought they were activated patriots doing what the President wanted. It is so weird and oblivious that you refuse to acknowledge that. |
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 4, 2022 20:40:46 GMT -5
Ok...I said he was guilty of having documents the archives wanted. You posted the rules what I'm saying is I don't know if they will do anything about it not that they couldn't He is guilty of a felony then, one that he enshrined into law. And you want yo give him a pass and call it politically motivated. In addition, his lawyers certified that he posses no other confidential documents, yet they found 1100 more, and you are still unsure he did anything illegal. I want the drugs you are taking |
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 4, 2022 20:54:26 GMT -5
No you’re not looking at all the possibilities. You’re only looking for the options that mean Trump is perfectly legal and proper. Trump didn’t incite the J6 mob to insurrection because we can’t know for sure what Trump’s ‘intent’ was. Maybe he only meant for the rally attendees to just walk to the Capital, hold hands and sing “nearer my God to thee.” It’s possible. And it’s possible he only had empty classified envelopes stuck in his boxes of documents and mementos and he just forgot to mention that they were all empty envelopes. It could happen! Have you ever hear of Occam’s Razor? If you live in London and hear hoof beats approaching you on the street, it’s almost certainly going to be an approaching horse and not an approaching zebra? You’re looking only for the zebras and ignoring all the rampaging horses that surround you. No what you're doing is jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts. Fact Trump had document the archive wanted Fact Trump has documents marked classified (possibly classified possibly declassified) we shall see Fact There is empty folders. Were they empty when he loaded them, did he shred them, did he sell them? Hopefully a good investigation will find out. So out of all the facts there right now the only thing he is guilty of is having documents that he shouldn't have had. That is what he is guilty of and that alone one could argue he knows more classified information given 4 years in office than what was there probably dems will push something but he will receive no jail time. Do you have a link that proves your third ‘fact?’ The only person I’ve heard claim the envelopes were empty were Paul Manafort. He is not exactly a credible expert. |
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 4, 2022 21:10:53 GMT -5
No you’re not looking at all the possibilities. You’re only looking for the options that mean Trump is perfectly legal and proper. Trump didn’t incite the J6 mob to insurrection because we can’t know for sure what Trump’s ‘intent’ was. Maybe he only meant for the rally attendees to just walk to the Capital, hold hands and sing “nearer my God to thee.” It’s possible. And it’s possible he only had empty classified envelopes stuck in his boxes of documents and mementos and he just forgot to mention that they were all empty envelopes. It could happen! Have you ever hear of Occam’s Razor? If you live in London and hear hoof beats approaching you on the street, it’s almost certainly going to be an approaching horse and not an approaching zebra? You’re looking only for the zebras and ignoring all the rampaging horses that surround you. No what you're doing is jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts. Fact Trump had document the archive wanted Fact Trump has documents marked classified (possibly classified possibly declassified) we shall see Fact There is empty folders. Were they empty when he loaded them, did he shred them, did he sell them? Hopefully a good investigation will find out. So out of all the facts there right now the only thing he is guilty of is having documents that he shouldn't have had. That is what he is guilty of and that alone one could argue he knows more classified information given 4 years in office than what was there probably dems will push something but he will receive no jail time. Also FYI the reason people are concerned that Trump had classified documents at MAL is not that Trump is looking at classified documents (that - you are right - he looked at when he was president, when it was ok for him to look at classified documents) but that he had all these classified documents at a beach resort that, according to security experts, was not secure at all. In fact Trump’s office was just steps away from one of the main ballroom/conference rooms. (Trump had several classified documents in his desk) They already caught a Chinese spy who had snuck onto the property back early in his presidency. How easy would it be for any of our many enemies to infiltrate the property, either as a guest of a member, or a staff member, or grounds crew, or just a lost tourist? Some of the documents were marked with a code that indicated the material inside considered information pertaining to human assets - spies. LIke the names of people in Russia or China or Afghanistan who are spying for us. If our enemies got information about spies, how soon do you think it would be before those spies were murdered or simply disappeared? Even if an enemy did not get a look at that paperwork, I 100% guarantee the CIA has yanked that asset right out of wherever he was, just to be safe, and possibly years of work to get one of our assets in place is now wasted. Because Trump ignored the rules and kept documents that should have stayed in a secure location. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 4, 2022 23:59:04 GMT -5
The cult of Trump is an apt name. Watching said cult fall all over themselves trying to rationalize his unhinged behavior is amazing.
I don’t see how anyone can think this is ok and be an American.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2022 5:51:06 GMT -5
or through scanned and emailed copies..,,,,,  1st we as the general public do not know if any was declassified or not 2nd Did the empty folders actually have any material in them again we don't know 3rd If any were classified were copies made can anyone prove it, same as any other official could have brought home and copied information you would have to prove it. So as it is right now Trump is completely innocent until 1 and 2 can be answered. Guilty of have documents the National Archives wanted don't know if that will result into anything. 1) true. but we know that the categorical declassification is not possible, unless he classified all of those documents in the first place, which i find impossible to believe. 2) that is not the issue, imo. they had materials. there is no question of that. the real question is what was done with them. you are right that we don't know that. they might have been returned to the archives. or they could be among the 11000 documents retrieved during the raid. 3) i don't know anything about the handling of classified materials, so i can't even speculate about this one. nothing happened in the case of Clinton. but her case was quite different than this. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2022 5:52:46 GMT -5
What part of Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office. trump left office January 20, 2021. Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents that were created or received after January 20, 1981 (i.e., beginning with the Reagan Administration). The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of the President from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents, and subsequently NARA, must manage the records of their Administrations. The PRA was amended in 2014, which established several new provisions. Specifically, the PRA: Establishes public ownership of all Presidential records and defines the term Presidential records. Requires that Vice-Presidential records be treated in the same way as Presidential records. Places the responsibility for the custody and management of incumbent Presidential records with the President. Requires that the President and his staff take all practical steps to file personal records separately from Presidential records. Allows the incumbent President to dispose of records that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value, once the views of the Archivist of the United States on the proposed disposal have been obtained in writing. Establishes in law that any incumbent Presidential records (whether textual or electronic) held on courtesy storage by the Archivist remain in the exclusive legal custody of the President and that any request or order for access to such records must be made to the President, not NARA. Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office.Establishes a process by which the President may restrict and the public may obtain access to these records after the President leaves office; specifically, the PRA allows for public access to Presidential records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) beginning five years after the end of the Administration, but allows the President to invoke as many as six specific restrictions to public access for up to twelve years. Codifies the process by which former and incumbent Presidents conduct reviews for executive privilege prior to public release of records by NARA (which had formerly been governed by Executive order 13489). Establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent Administrations to obtain “special access” to records from NARA that remain closed to the public, following a privilege review period by the former and incumbent Presidents; the procedures governing such special access requests continue to be governed by the relevant provisions of E.O. 13489. Establishes preservation requirements for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts: any individual creating Presidential records must not use non-official electronic messaging accounts unless that individual copies an official account as the message is created or forwards a complete copy of the record to an official messaging account. (A similar provision in the Federal Records Act applies to federal agencies.) Prevents an individual who has been convicted of a crime related to the review, retention, removal, or destruction of records from being given access to any original records. Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978Interesting and not to be a jerk but what does any of that have to do with what I wrote. it means that even if Trump is off the hook for mishandling classified documents, he is on the hook for failing to return all documents (classified and otherwise) over to the archives. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2022 5:59:12 GMT -5
No you’re not looking at all the possibilities. You’re only looking for the options that mean Trump is perfectly legal and proper. Trump didn’t incite the J6 mob to insurrection because we can’t know for sure what Trump’s ‘intent’ was. Maybe he only meant for the rally attendees to just walk to the Capital, hold hands and sing “nearer my God to thee.” It’s possible. And it’s possible he only had empty classified envelopes stuck in his boxes of documents and mementos and he just forgot to mention that they were all empty envelopes. It could happen! Have you ever hear of Occam’s Razor? If you live in London and hear hoof beats approaching you on the street, it’s almost certainly going to be an approaching horse and not an approaching zebra? You’re looking only for the zebras and ignoring all the rampaging horses that surround you. No what you're doing is jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts. Fact Trump had document the archive wanted Fact Trump has documents marked classified (possibly classified possibly declassified) we shall see Fact There is empty folders. Were they empty when he loaded them, did he shred them, did he sell them? Hopefully a good investigation will find out. So out of all the facts there right now the only thing he is guilty of is having documents that he shouldn't have had. That is what he is guilty of and that alone one could argue he knows more classified information given 4 years in office than what was there probably dems will push something but he will receive no jail time. without considering why he had the documents and how he obtained them, i agree with you. but just having SCIF documents at MAL is a problem. so, how did they get there? that question might answer the why, as well. but it might not. and the potential answers to those questions are quite troubling. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2022 6:03:47 GMT -5
No what you're doing is jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts. Fact Trump had document the archive wanted Fact Trump has documents marked classified (possibly classified possibly declassified) we shall see Fact There is empty folders. Were they empty when he loaded them, did he shred them, did he sell them? Hopefully a good investigation will find out. So out of all the facts there right now the only thing he is guilty of is having documents that he shouldn't have had. That is what he is guilty of and that alone one could argue he knows more classified information given 4 years in office than what was there probably dems will push something but he will receive no jail time. So that's the lame talking point showing up on RW media? It's like you don't even know Trump. You think he'd remember that? He repeats the same stories over and over and has a hard time staying on topic. That is not a man that would retain much classified info unless of course it was his love of extramarital affairs of world leaders. They've found no declassified markings as of yet, so I won't be surprised if they never do. i didn't even think of this until i heard Joyce Vance speaking about this last night. when you do a FOIA request, and they declassify materials, you can see the DECLASSIFIED stamp on the front cover. NONE of Trumps materials contained that stamp, so there is no reason to believe that they were declassified. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2022 6:08:36 GMT -5
The cult of Trump is an apt name. Watching said cult fall all over themselves trying to rationalize his unhinged behavior is amazing. I don’t see how anyone can think this is ok and be an American. i was watching some thing on youtube about a Mormon dude who was found guilty of sexual abuse of underaged girls. the members of his "sect" stand by him, and say that it is all religious persecution and lies. cult is precisely right. there is the presumption of innocence. that is noble. one should always presume that. and then there is overwhelming evidence that should at the very least cause suspicion. i think that scgal exhibits some of the latter, for the record. |
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Post by tbop77 on Sept 5, 2022 6:54:42 GMT -5
The cult of Trump is an apt name. Watching said cult fall all over themselves trying to rationalize his unhinged behavior is amazing. I don’t see how anyone can think this is ok and be an American. Yeah, I agree. Just thinking about his 2016 campaign and his "lock her up" chants (which he didn't) to his recent rally where he called President Biden "the enemy of the state". You would think his followers were get the message that he is nothing but a washed up reality show con man who is taking them for every penny he can get. Most of their talking points don't even make sense to them when you try and have a conversation. |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Sept 5, 2022 7:09:27 GMT -5
No what you're doing is jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts. Fact Trump had document the archive wanted Fact Trump has documents marked classified (possibly classified possibly declassified) we shall see Fact There is empty folders. Were they empty when he loaded them, did he shred them, did he sell them? Hopefully a good investigation will find out. So out of all the facts there right now the only thing he is guilty of is having documents that he shouldn't have had. That is what he is guilty of and that alone one could argue he knows more classified information given 4 years in office than what was there probably dems will push something but he will receive no jail time. Do you have a link that proves your third ‘fact?’ The only person I’ve heard claim the envelopes were empty were Paul Manafort. He is not exactly a credible expert. Nope just replying to what is said here |
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Post by scgal on Sept 5, 2022 7:14:11 GMT -5
So that's the lame talking point showing up on RW media? It's like you don't even know Trump. You think he'd remember that? He repeats the same stories over and over and has a hard time staying on topic. That is not a man that would retain much classified info unless of course it was his love of extramarital affairs of world leaders. They've found no declassified markings as of yet, so I won't be surprised if they never do. i didn't even think of this until i heard Joyce Vance speaking about this last night. when you do a FOIA request, and they declassify materials, you can see the DECLASSIFIED stamp on the front cover. NONE of Trumps materials contained that stamp, so there is no reason to believe that they were declassified. I thought about this myself. The brief, memo, letter whatever might be is classified. It could be declassified without all the copies being destroyed for the update if that makes sense |
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Post by scgal on Sept 5, 2022 7:34:06 GMT -5
Ok...I said he was guilty of having documents the archives wanted. You posted the rules what I'm saying is I don't know if they will do anything about it not that they couldn't He is guilty of a felony then, one that he enshrined into law. And you want yo give him a pass and call it politically motivated. In addition, his lawyers certified that he posses no other confidential documents, yet they found 1100 more, and you are still unsure he did anything illegal. I want the drugs you are taking I'll leave the drug dept to you. He is guilty of mis-handling classified papers. Whatever he gets for that he get slap on the wrist or jail time, but I highly doubt a former US president is going to see jail time for that. That alone would set this country into a civil war |
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Post by scgal on Sept 5, 2022 7:36:20 GMT -5
Interesting and not to be a jerk but what does any of that have to do with what I wrote. it means that even if Trump is off the hook for mishandling classified documents, he is on the hook for failing to return all documents (classified and otherwise) over to the archives. agreed...This group already has him tarred and feathered for treason on speculation |
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Post by Opti on Sept 5, 2022 7:37:24 GMT -5
He is guilty of a felony then, one that he enshrined into law. And you want yo give him a pass and call it politically motivated. In addition, his lawyers certified that he posses no other confidential documents, yet they found 1100 more, and you are still unsure he did anything illegal. I want the drugs you are taking I'll leave the drug dept to you. He is guilty of mis-handling classified papers. Whatever he gets for that he get slap on the wrist or jail time, but I highly doubt a former US president is going to see jail time for that. That alone would set this country into a civil war I think he will get fined even though he deserves jail time. |
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Post by scgal on Sept 5, 2022 7:41:35 GMT -5
1st impeachment was bogus. Trump was well within his right to have Biden looked into. 2nd impeachment was bogus no real evidence of him telling them to storm the capital fight like hell is not the same thing Wow. Both impeachments were legit. Trump is recorded trying to strong arm Zelensky. And no, he does not have the right to investigate a citizen or politician using the US's money that is promised elsewhere. It was pretty sketchy that he sent Rudi to dig up dirt on Hunter in Russia. Messing with Ukraine was illegal. Again, people who actually stormed the Capitol believed he told them to. They really thought they were activated patriots doing what the President wanted. It is so weird and oblivious that you refuse to acknowledge that. funny I couldn't find anything where Trump told Zelensky he would hold money back. Maybe i'm not searching hard enough. He does have the right to have anyone investigated. What the people thought and what is said is not the same thing that was such a bogus overreach of congress. I just hope when the gop takes congress back they don't play by the same petty pules that the dems do or this country will never move forward. |
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Post by Opti on Sept 5, 2022 7:42:35 GMT -5
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Post by scgal on Sept 5, 2022 7:45:39 GMT -5
the only fact there is that he mis-handled information. Show me any fact that supports anything else. If not I will take speculation for 200 alex |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 5, 2022 7:52:39 GMT -5
Wow. Both impeachments were legit. Trump is recorded trying to strong arm Zelensky. And no, he does not have the right to investigate a citizen or politician using the US's money that is promised elsewhere. It was pretty sketchy that he sent Rudi to dig up dirt on Hunter in Russia. Messing with Ukraine was illegal. Again, people who actually stormed the Capitol believed he told them to. They really thought they were activated patriots doing what the President wanted. It is so weird and oblivious that you refuse to acknowledge that. funny I couldn't find anything where Trump told Zelensky he would hold money back. Maybe i'm not searching hard enough. He does have the right to have anyone investigated. What the people thought and what is said is not the same thing that was such a bogus overreach of congress. I just hope when the gop takes congress back they don't play by the same petty pules that the dems do or this country will never move forward. [ Start? How many Benghazi investigations were there.? How many hearings about bill Clinton were there? I didn’t realize he wasn’t impeached. All for lying about sex? The allegations against trump are far more serious. Did you agree with impeAching Clinton? Republicans were talking publicly about the investigations the would do starting day 1 of the Hilary administration. There are republicans talking about impeaching Biden. You act. Like republicans didn’t participate in this. They could have helped fix it by convicting trump for the gross detection of duty after the riot broke out. No need to even worry about incitement. There is plenty of sworn testimony about his refusal to act once the Capitol was breeched. Unless they are all liars too |
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Sept 5, 2022 7:53:07 GMT -5
it means that even if Trump is off the hook for mishandling classified documents, he is on the hook for failing to return all documents (classified and otherwise) over to the archives. agreed...This group already has him tarred and feathered for treason on speculation I wish you would close your eyes and imagine: President Obama made the perfect phone call when trying to get dirt on Trump in exchange for military help President Obama wouldn't accept the results of an elections, called his supporter to DC and tried to stop the transfer of power. Plus, he sat there and watched with glee while his supporters were beating the hell out of the police President Obama had taken documents from the WH. Whatever the case, you knew they have been negotiating to get back, he lied about having them...etc Guess that wouldn't be any big deal to you, right? |
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pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 8,064
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 5, 2022 7:53:28 GMT -5
the only fact there is that he mis-handled information. Show me any fact that supports anything else. If not I will take speculation for 200 alex Which is a felony you continue to downplay |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 5, 2022 7:54:12 GMT -5
Wow. Both impeachments were legit. Trump is recorded trying to strong arm Zelensky. And no, he does not have the right to investigate a citizen or politician using the US's money that is promised elsewhere. It was pretty sketchy that he sent Rudi to dig up dirt on Hunter in Russia. Messing with Ukraine was illegal. Again, people who actually stormed the Capitol believed he told them to. They really thought they were activated patriots doing what the President wanted. It is so weird and oblivious that you refuse to acknowledge that. funny I couldn't find anything where Trump told Zelensky he would hold money back. Maybe i'm not searching hard enough. He does have the right to have anyone investigated. What the people thought and what is said is not the same thing that was such a bogus overreach of congress. I just hope when the gop takes congress back they don't play by the same petty pules that the dems do or this country will never move forward. Trump already was holding money back. I do not know whether the full transcript was ever released. Sorry, this is Huffpost and not more neutral, but I don't feel like wading through results to find stuff I read back then. Ukraine’s president was preparing to announce a groundless investigation into Joe Biden on CNN — against his better judgment — but managed to duck out of it when Congress pressed Donald Trump to release military aid he was withholding, The New York Times reported.
The last thing President Volodymyr Zelensky wanted to do was become entangled in U.S. politics, the Times reported, but he was convinced that the only way he could finally get the appropriated $400 million in U.S. aid was to follow the president’s instructions for announcing an investigation of Biden and his son, according to interviews with Kyiv government officials.
Trump reportedly expected Zelensky to make a high-profile statement about launching an investigation of his 2020 presidential rival. A top U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor, testified before House members that Gordon Sondland, Trump’s appointed ambassador to the European Union, told him the military aid was dependent on Zelensky making a “public statement” about initiating an investigation of Biden.
www.huffpost.com/entry/military-funds-ukraine-zelensky-cnn-joe-biden-trump_n_5dc4b937e4b02bf5793d2a1d |
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