Priness Mako's declined dowry

[haapai]

Does anyone here have any details regarding what kind of control she would have had over this money, had she not refused it?  Would it have been unambiguously hers (as long as it wasn't comingled) as it is in most Western countries? 

I don't want to assume that it was money obtained before marriage and therefore completely under her control.  Does anyone here have a clue how Japanese family law works? 

It's a big, "I want to be alone" move, but also baffling to me.  I want to know if it would have truly been her's before I judge.  Also, is there any chance that what she is turning down is kinda a pittance compared to wealth that her father might have acquired? 

[Tiny]

I don't know - but it's a rabbit hole I will probably go down. 

Japanese culture and royalty are not quite like the Western world's. 

A quick look - makes me think  refusing the money is based more on maintaining "family honor" or "public face saving" than anything else.  

I'm also thinking the 150 million yen is NOT a particularly large amount of money for someone in the upper class in Japan.  


english.kyodonews.net/news/2021/10/a45d280632d0-princess-makos-marriage-arrangements-to-be-announced-this-afternoon.html

Komuro is the husband to be...  They've been a couple for many years so it's not a whirlwind romance/quick marriage. 

Many people remain unconvinced by Komuro's explanations about the money dispute between his mother and her former fiance and feel uncomfortable about negative reports on the Komuro family, believing they are unfit to become relatives of the royals including Prince Hisahito, the princess' younger brother who is second in line to the throne.

While female imperial family members traditionally receive a lump-sum payment of up to around 150 million yen ($1.3 million) in taxpayers' money upon their departure from the household, the agency said it has accepted Princess Mako's unprecedented request not to receive such payment.

I also read that Princess Mako and her husband will live in New York (where he practices law).    It sounds like the long term goal was to step away from Royal Life.   And to the best of my knowledge  Princesses aren't all that much Royalty once they marry (even if they marry someone prestigious in Japan)  their "royalty" doesn't make their spouse royal.   And I don't think there's a way to confer "royalty" on someone... like, say, in England.  

I don't remember if Japan changed the rules to allow for a female heir or not.   That's another rabbit hole. 



ADDED:   Mako may have an easier overall path to a wealthy, prestigious, non-royal life than Harry and Meghan had.    I'm guessing once the wedding is done and they are out of the news... they will easily drop out of the public's eye... and will Live Happily Ever After.   Getting to that point is the tricky part. 

[haapai]

I definitely agree that US $1.4 million is not a huge amount given land and housing prices in Japan.  Does anyone know if the amount is fixed i.e. not indexed?   It's an amount that would change my life, but it doesn't seem like an amount that would keep you wealthy in Japan. 

[Tiny]

I don't know about the fixed or indexed - you mean like it might be an "annuity"? Everything I've read is it's a lump sum.

I think the key here is that it's a gift of TAXPAYER money - and it seems that the public is not very happy about the marriage.      

I suspect she's not marrying a "poor" commoner from a family that no one in her circle has ever heard of...  I haven't googled the guy - but, like the European Royals - they rarely if ever marry penniless people from every day working class families  they somehow managed to meet and spend time with.    That's why "fairy tales" are fairy tales.


FWIW: I'm guessing her Hubby to Be is probably in the over 500K USD income range - IF he is working for a Big Law law firm... so the 1.3 million USD isn't probably a "life changing" amount for them when they set up home here in America either.

[justme]

The article I read said her dowry was 1.4M if she married someone of nobility and it's to compensate her for losing her royal title - as according to Japanese rule she is no longer a princess once she marries. Their royal line is very strictly patriarchal. And possibly going to fuck them over because they aren't have many if any male babies born to male descendants. 

So she didn't really 'turn it down' as it wasn't a choice given the man she wants to marry. As she's been engaged for a couple years not sure why it's popping up in news now, as she undoubtedly knew this is what she was doing when she said yes to the proposal. 

[Tiny]

Looks like the wedding has taken place.

www.cnn.com/2021/10/26/asia/royal-news-newsletter-10-26-21-scli-gbr-cmd-intl/index.html

I kind of hate the tag line "Princess gives up title for love" --- like it's somehow amazing.... in the last 10 years - 2 other princesses did the same thing...


Here's another Princess who also "gave up her title for love" in 2018...
www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-02/why-japanese-princesses-leave-the-royal-family-after-marriage/10446452

This article mentions WHY the "giving up the title" thing isn't all that big a deal - it sounds like it would be more out of the ordinary to marry royalty (since a princess might have to marry - a cousin? or a close male relative... ick!!!)

But while casting aside the trappings of palace life in order to marry whoever you choose may sound romantic, the fact is Japan's princesses don't actually have many other options.

There aren't any potential suitors of noble stock, and unless they marry a male blood relative — of which there are very few to begin with — marrying down is their only choice.

sounds like Japan needs to bring back having royal concubines to solve to the "we're running out of male heirs" thing... OK, maybe they could update that to something more along the lines of having surrogate mothers for the royal house(s). Even the old royal guys could produce a couple of additional males in line to the throne. They could solve the problem in a single generation - with some common fertility treatments (and gender selection). (boy am I snarky tonight....)

[Tennesseer]

Oct 26, 2021 19:22:49 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Looks like the wedding has taken place.

www.cnn.com/2021/10/26/asia/royal-news-newsletter-10-26-21-scli-gbr-cmd-intl/index.html

I kind of hate the tag line "Princess gives up title for love" --- like it's somehow amazing.... in the last 10 years - 2 other princesses did the same thing...


Here's another Princess who also "gave up her title for love" in 2018...
www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-02/why-japanese-princesses-leave-the-royal-family-after-marriage/10446452

This article mentions WHY the "giving up the title" thing isn't all that big a deal - it sounds like it would be more out of the ordinary to marry royalty (since a princess might have to marry - a cousin? or a close male relative... ick!!!)

But while casting aside the trappings of palace life in order to marry whoever you choose may sound romantic, the fact is Japan's princesses don't actually have many other options.

There aren't any potential suitors of noble stock, and unless they marry a male blood relative — of which there are very few to begin with — marrying down is their only choice.

sounds like Japan needs to bring back having royal concubines to solve to the "we're running out of male heirs" thing... OK, maybe they could update that to something more along the lines of having surrogate mothers for the royal house(s). Even the old royal guys could produce a couple of additional males in line to the throne. They could solve the problem in a single generation - with some common fertility treatments (and gender selection). (boy am I snarky tonight....)

This princess was never eligible for the crown in Japan anyway so why not.

[happyhoix]

Oct 4, 2021 12:37:13 GMT -5 justme said:

The article I read said her dowry was 1.4M if she married someone of nobility and it's to compensate her for losing her royal title - as according to Japanese rule she is no longer a princess once she marries. Their royal line is very strictly patriarchal. And possibly going to fuck them over because they aren't have many if any male babies born to male descendants. 

So she didn't really 'turn it down' as it wasn't a choice given the man she wants to marry. As she's been engaged for a couple years not sure why it's popping up in news now, as she undoubtedly knew this is what she was doing when she said yes to the proposal. 

I think when they first announced their engagement was when the news became public that the grooms mom might be a grifter. Her family refused to let her marry him and public opinion turned against him. For a while they broke up and The Princess started having symptoms of PTSD from the intense public scrutiny. Then the princess said she wouldn’t accept the taxpayer dowry, but she really wanted to marry the guy, even if she had to give up being royalty.

Oh and there was a stink earlier in October when her fiancé returned to Japan with a pony tail. Apparently he’s been called ‘shaggy.’

It used to be fun to be royal when you could boss the serfs around any hog all the money, but no longer. I’m pleased I’m common as dirt 😃