thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2021 16:03:26 GMT -5
First off, I want to be very, very clear that I do not want to discuss the merits of the particular activity the law is aimed at. I want to discuss the mechanism of the law - because it is freaking terrifying.
My understanding is this:
ANY person can sue a person who has taken part of the banned activity. "Taken part" includes obvious things, but also things such as providing funding or transportation.
If this random person who sues wins, they collect $10k and all of their legal expenses. If they lose, they are only out their legal expenses and do not have to compensate the defendant for their lawyer's fees.
I believe said random person could sue multiple people for each case - so, the patient, the sexual partner of the patient, any medical professionals involved, anyone who drove, etc. Maybe they make $50k off one case, and they get paid back for any legal costs. If they lose, 5 people just had their lives turned upside down for nothing. What is to stop any person from suing any woman in her 20's who gets any medical care?
Also, this puts it through civil court - not criminal court. So, the 'if you can't afford an attorney one will be provided free of charge' thing disappears.
As I said before - the mechanism of this is a nightmare. If this is how we are going to enforce laws from now on, the system will get even MORE biased against the poor, and rich people and activists will start making bank on anyone who can't afford an attorney.
Nightmare.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 1, 2021 16:24:37 GMT -5
I so hope this is law is challenged in the courts. Texas has turned into a state of snitches. Turn on your neighbor and win $10,000!
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 1, 2021 16:27:08 GMT -5
thank you for your disclaimer. I'll add that any posts relating to the activity in question will go poof, in their entirety, no questions asked.
-chiver mod
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 1, 2021 16:29:33 GMT -5
I completely agree that this is terrifying, on so many levels. what makes me crazy is that the idiots supporting stuff like this are the ones who think they are on the side of small government, and that the liberals want a 'nanny state' while they would all seemingly follow the guy in front of them straight into a police state.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2021 16:47:22 GMT -5
I completely agree that this is terrifying, on so many levels. what makes me crazy is that the idiots supporting stuff like this are the ones who think they are on the side of small government, and that the liberals want a 'nanny state' while they would all seemingly follow the guy in front of them straight into a police state. They also think it could never bite them in the ass. Maybe we should make a law where any person can sue anyone that had custody of a gun used in a crime. Even if your house gets broken into and your gun is stolen, we can still sue you. Or, whatever right they feel most passionate about.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 1, 2021 17:06:29 GMT -5
I completely agree that this is terrifying, on so many levels. what makes me crazy is that the idiots supporting stuff like this are the ones who think they are on the side of small government, and that the liberals want a 'nanny state' while they would all seemingly follow the guy in front of them straight into a police state. They also think it could never bite them in the ass. Maybe we should make a law where any person can sue anyone that had custody of a gun used in a crime. Even if your house gets broken into and your gun is stolen, we can still sue you. Or, whatever right they feel most passionate about. Good luck with that! We're talking Texas here.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 1, 2021 17:12:46 GMT -5
sounds somewhat worse than Iran.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 1, 2021 17:24:03 GMT -5
They also think it could never bite them in the ass. Maybe we should make a law where any person can sue anyone that had custody of a gun used in a crime. Even if your house gets broken into and your gun is stolen, we can still sue you. Or, whatever right they feel most passionate about. Good luck with that! We're talking Texas here. I think she means if this is legal it can be enacted elsewhere. Like in a blue state as an end around on gun laws
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 1, 2021 17:46:24 GMT -5
I don’t understand how this law can pass constitutional muster on so may fronts.
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 1, 2021 17:58:24 GMT -5
I completely agree that this is terrifying, on so many levels. what makes me crazy is that the idiots supporting stuff like this are the ones who think they are on the side of small government, and that the liberals want a 'nanny state' while they would all seemingly follow the guy in front of them straight into a police state. They also think it could never bite them in the ass. Maybe we should make a law where any person can sue anyone that had custody of a gun used in a crime. Even if your house gets broken into and your gun is stolen, we can still sue you. Or, whatever right they feel most passionate about. You don't have to wait for that. Someone could hire PIs to follow the conservative politicians that voted for it, undoubtedly some of them have mistresses. Bam! Sue them for helping their mistress get an abortion. Even if they didn't. Hell if there's not a max number of people that can sue you - have everyone sue them. You can copy/paste from suit to suit.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Sept 1, 2021 17:59:14 GMT -5
Time for the women of America to go on strike!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 1, 2021 18:00:32 GMT -5
They also think it could never bite them in the ass. Maybe we should make a law where any person can sue anyone that had custody of a gun used in a crime. Even if your house gets broken into and your gun is stolen, we can still sue you. Or, whatever right they feel most passionate about. You don't have to wait for that. Someone could hire PIs to follow the conservative politicians that voted for it, undoubtedly some of them have mistresses. Bam! Sue them for helping their mistress get an abortion. Even if they didn't. Hell if there's not a max number of people that can sue you - have everyone sue them. You can copy/paste from suit to suit. Follow their adult children too. After all, everyone is fair game.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 1, 2021 18:05:17 GMT -5
I assume the law covers Texas citizens paying for or driving someone to receive an abortion applies to travel out of state to receive for the medical procedure.
What if the person who is driving someone to a procedure in Texas or pays for someone to receive one lives out of state. Can a Texas citizen sue them too?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 1, 2021 18:09:04 GMT -5
Why doesn't Texas just change its name to The Republic of Gilead, and be done with it?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 1, 2021 18:09:44 GMT -5
I assume the law covers Texas citizens paying for or driving someone to receive an abortion applies to travel out of state to receive for the medical procedure. What if the person who is driving someone to a procedure in Texas or pays for someone to receive one lives out of state. Can a Texas citizen sue them too? the former was my understanding, yes. the latter, I think it falls under jurisdiction and where the "crime" was committed.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2021 18:10:35 GMT -5
Good luck with that! We're talking Texas here. I think she means if this is legal it can be enacted elsewhere. Like in a blue state as an end around on gun laws Yes - I meant in general across the USA at some future time.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 1, 2021 18:14:51 GMT -5
I assume the law covers Texas citizens paying for or driving someone to receive an abortion applies to travel out of state to receive for the medical procedure. What if the person who is driving someone to a procedure in Texas or pays for someone to receive one lives out of state. Can a Texas citizen sue them too? the former was my understanding, yes. the latter, I think it falls under jurisdiction and where the "crime" was committed. You can go to Canada to have it done. Just try and sue us!!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2021 18:15:14 GMT -5
Time for the women of America to go on strike! It does seem like this method could be used to disproportionately punish women. Although you would think they would just go after providers until they just shut down gynecologists all together. Insurance premiums could sky rocket if this law is abused. Fuck women's health.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Sept 1, 2021 18:16:06 GMT -5
the former was my understanding, yes. the latter, I think it falls under jurisdiction and where the "crime" was committed. You can go to Canada to have it done. Just try and sue us!! I will donate for travel to get them there. Texas can try to sue me in California!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 1, 2021 18:20:25 GMT -5
This makes me think of the satan worshipping daycare trials of the 80s.
Lots of opportunities for hysteria, drama and lives ruined.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2021 18:21:11 GMT -5
the former was my understanding, yes. the latter, I think it falls under jurisdiction and where the "crime" was committed. You can go to Canada to have it done. Just try and sue us!! True, but upon returning home, the patient will be sued. Basically, if you need an abortion, you have to move to California.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2021 18:22:54 GMT -5
Also, this puts women who miscarry at risk of lawsuits. Some angry narcissistic mother in law is just sure it didn't go down the way her very special boy's wife said it did.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Sept 1, 2021 18:30:34 GMT -5
Do they really think that $10,000 is going to be a deterrent to a rich man with a mistress? How stupid can you get? (Don't answer that...)
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 1, 2021 19:11:20 GMT -5
Mrs. Betty Bowers:
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2021 19:15:37 GMT -5
Do they really think that $10,000 is going to be a deterrent to a rich man with a mistress? How stupid can you get? (Don't answer that...) 1. This will initially be aimed at providers 2. This will be used as a deterrent for people with no connections 3. If they file the court case, it can go into public record and the rich man will be exposed.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 1, 2021 19:23:13 GMT -5
Do they really think that $10,000 is going to be a deterrent to a rich man with a mistress? How stupid can you get? (Don't answer that...) 1. This will initially be aimed at providers 2. This will be used as a deterrent for people with no connections 3. If they file the court case, it can go into public record and the rich man will be exposed. in my mind, #3 is actually a positive. expose these rich pockets, all damn day long.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 1, 2021 19:34:12 GMT -5
I’m thinking of several nightmare scenarios. Women trying to prove they had a miscarriage. Dorm mates searching trash cans for other people’s used pregnancy tests, or trying to sneak looks at their phones in the hopes that they catch someone out.
One of the unintended consequences will surely be women stocking up on the morning after pill, just to be sure.
Although as usual, the ones in the worst bind will be the poorest ones who can’t afford to travel out of state.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 1, 2021 19:40:32 GMT -5
I’m thinking of several nightmare scenarios. Women trying to prove they had a miscarriage. Dorm mates searching trash cans for other people’s used pregnancy tests, or trying to sneak looks at their phones in the hopes that they catch someone out. One of the unintended consequences will surely be women stocking up on the morning after pill, just to be sure. Although as usual, the ones in the worst bind will be the poorest ones who can’t afford to travel out of state. Once the poor ones are forced to have their babies, the folks in favor of this law will complain they don't want their taxes paying for the welfare of the mother and child and will also complain she should have kept her legs together.
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chiver78
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Texas law
Sept 1, 2021 19:46:58 GMT -5
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 1, 2021 19:46:58 GMT -5
I’m thinking of several nightmare scenarios. Women trying to prove they had a miscarriage. Dorm mates searching trash cans for other people’s used pregnancy tests, or trying to sneak looks at their phones in the hopes that they catch someone out. One of the unintended consequences will surely be women stocking up on the morning after pill, just to be sure. Although as usual, the ones in the worst bind will be the poorest ones who can’t afford to travel out of state. Once the poor ones are forced to have their babies, the folks in favor of this law will complain they don't want their taxes paying for the welfare of the mother and child and will also complain she should have kept her legs together. they already do this. 🤷♀️
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 1, 2021 19:55:09 GMT -5
Once the poor ones are forced to have their babies, the folks in favor of this law will complain they don't want their taxes paying for the welfare of the mother and child and will also complain she should have kept her legs together. they already do this. 🤷♀️ I know. They will just say it louder and to the poors' faces.
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