Asbestos abatement

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

So we received the inspector's report on my dad's house that the sale fell through. A lot of the things that were issues were really nit picky things - things you'd expect to see in a house that was built in the 1950s. Some were very easily dealt with, but the biggie was the possible (it wasn't tested) asbestos in the basement floor tile (not unexpected). SM has dealt with the electrical issues already, and the smoke detectors (which had no batteries??!!!!).



At this point, I have no idea how much it would cost to do an asbestos abatement for about 900? sq ft of tile floor. Has anyone done any abatement and can you tell me how much we are looking at?  I'd be surprised if there is even a local company in town that can do this, so would likely have to add travel onto this too.  

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Do they even do abatement? I thought asbestos is usually ok if left alone and u only do abatement if you are renovating it or disturbing it..

[Sharon]

I was told to cover it up.  As long as it isn't disturbed it isn't an issue. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Covering it up is not possible.  There was an ice storm in upstate NY in the late 1990s, and the basement badly flooded when the power went out and the sump pump stopped getting power.  So a bunch of the tiles (probably about 1/4 of the floor) released and broke up. 

[Deleted]

Define "broke up".

When DS and I wanted to put ceramic tile in our bathroom I had to investigate this because the house was built in 1985 and Home Depot said the plastic tile on the floor MIGHT be asbestos and had to be tested before they'd put down tile. I did some research and found that the tile my Dad used in our basement in the late 1950s might have contained asbestos- they were flexible and had a sort of marble pattern on them.

I was pretty sure the flooring DH and I had was NOT asbestos and read what Sharon did about it being OK to cover up- it was practically fused to the floorboard anyway. I put some Schluter Ditra underlayment on it and tiled on top of that.

Does your Dad's floor have gaps where pieces broke off and were removed? If that's the case I'd be tempted to even out the surface with something like the compound used between floorboard and Ditra, then add the Ditra and then the final covering.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Broken up - the tile was in pieces, they were friable, cracked and broken, not whole.  When the water got under the tile and the tile got stepped on, the tile cracked.   The tile is an ugly brown/tan/orange speckle, but I doubt that there is a single type of asbestos tile.  Those broken tiles were swept up and tossed.

I can check to see what it would cost to have it tiled over......SM's son does stuff like this, so it might be an easier solution.  I'd hate for it to come back and bite us in the butt though, especially after the inspection report.  

[Bonny]

Jul 17, 2021 15:23:25 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Broken up - the tile was in pieces, they were friable, cracked and broken, not whole.  When the water got under the tile and the tile got stepped on, the tile cracked.   The tile is an ugly brown/tan/orange speckle, but I doubt that there is a single type of asbestos tile.  Those broken tiles were swept up and tossed.

I can check to see what it would cost to have it tiled over......SM's son does stuff like this, so it might be an easier solution.  I'd hate for it to come back and bite us in the butt though, especially after the inspection report.  

Is the house on the market now?

What's the market like in the area? What kind of shape is the rest of the house in? If it's not in great shape I think I would just leave it and disclose it. You'll either get a flipper who someone who wants to remodel and make it their own.

[pulmonarymd]

20+ years ago, a friend of my wife’s bought an old house with asbestos insulation on the wall. They got an estimate to re-Sheetrock it. Estimate was 10k per room. This was in westchester county(Scarsdale). Price was jacked up because of that. They were able to find someone cheaper, but I don’t know what they paid.

They framed that estimate so they could look at it whenever they needed a good laugh

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2021 15:23:25 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Broken up - the tile was in pieces, they were friable, cracked and broken, not whole.  When the water got under the tile and the tile got stepped on, the tile cracked.   The tile is an ugly brown/tan/orange speckle, but I doubt that there is a single type of asbestos tile.  Those broken tiles were swept up and tossed.

I can check to see what it would cost to have it tiled over......SM's son does stuff like this, so it might be an easier solution.  I'd hate for it to come back and bite us in the butt though, especially after the inspection report.  

OK- sounds like it would be hard to smooth over to prepare for a new surface.  I agree on the report- once the "A" word is mentioned, even if it's just an allegation, some prospective buyers might panic.  You might want to ask a realtor who knows the local market if possible asbestos tile that's been undisturbed and completely covered over would be a drawback.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 17, 2021 16:16:07 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Jul 17, 2021 15:23:25 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Broken up - the tile was in pieces, they were friable, cracked and broken, not whole.  When the water got under the tile and the tile got stepped on, the tile cracked.   The tile is an ugly brown/tan/orange speckle, but I doubt that there is a single type of asbestos tile.  Those broken tiles were swept up and tossed.

I can check to see what it would cost to have it tiled over......SM's son does stuff like this, so it might be an easier solution.  I'd hate for it to come back and bite us in the butt though, especially after the inspection report.  

Is the house on the market now?

What's the market like in the area? What kind of shape is the rest of the house in? If it's not in great shape I think I would just leave it and disclose it. You'll either get a flipper who someone who wants to remodel and make it their own.

Yes.  I suspected asbestos tile when it was put on the market, but it hadn’t been identified.  The inspection report from the buyers mentioned possible asbestos, so they backed out.

The market is hotter than it was a year ago, so would like to strike while the iron is hot.  I also want the house gone.  The house is not in bad shape, the other problems in the report were nit picky things.  

It’s a nice little house with lake access if you are not looking for walk in closets, en suite bathrooms and huge rooms.  It does have a nicely open floor plan where the kitchen/living room/dining room all run into each other.

[Tiny]

I live in the land of "old houses" with issues.

In my area this is how this plays out:

1.) you find a way to cover over the tiles in the basement. The next winning bids inspector does not indicate a problem with the basement flooring. The sale goes thru. It's now the new owners problem. The buyer (has no experience with the housing stock and the issues they have - as in covered up possibly asbestos floor tiles) and finds out in a year or two when they go to remodel the basement. If they start the remodel sooner they find out sooner.

2.) you do nothing and disclose the possibility of asbestos tiles (and the previous flooding, and lead paint I'm guessing) and find an experienced or "into DIY" buyer who hears "asbestos" and thinks - ok I have to remediate that - I want an allowance (pay less for the house) so I can pick what kind of covering I want on the floor (or I can deal with having it removed because I'm remodeling the basement)..

3.) you come down enough in price to make the house attractive to a flipper who will cover up the asbestos tile and flip the house.

My local building codes aren't such that they make the seller remove asbestos or lead paint before being able to sell a house. It needs to be disclosed to potential buyers - but not fixed.

if the house is being flipped the city is less lenient - because they are doing major work to the house pulling lots of permits for a bathroom/kitchen tear out or a full gut and possibly exterior and concrete work... They have to deal with the asbestos/lead paint issues.

[Tiny]

Jul 17, 2021 17:11:59 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jul 17, 2021 16:16:07 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Is the house on the market now?

What's the market like in the area? What kind of shape is the rest of the house in? If it's not in great shape I think I would just leave it and disclose it. You'll either get a flipper who someone who wants to remodel and make it their own.

Yes.  I suspected asbestos tile when it was put on the market, but it hadn’t been identified.  The inspection report from the buyers mentioned possible asbestos, so they backed out.

The market is hotter than it was a year ago, so would like to strike while the iron is hot.  I also want the house gone.  The house is not in bad shape, the other problems in the report were nit picky things.  

It’s a nice little house with lake access if you are not looking for walk in closets, en suite bathrooms and huge rooms.  It does have a nicely open floor plan where the kitchen/living room/dining room all run into each other.

My sibling is looking for a lake house - what State is this in??  Ok,  my sib is looking in Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky...   

[tractor]

Most old commercial floor tile contains some asbestos, it is not a problem until the tile is broken up and the fibers are released into the air. Around here it’s very easy to remove them, and most just gets tossed in the dumpster. It’s no where near the same level as asbestos in insulation which is readily released into the air every time it gets bumped, etc.

It is also easy and cheap ($500) to have tested to see if it actually contains asbestos. You might want to see if you can find a lab/abatement company who can give you some pricing ideas. You can probably just send a small piece to them and they will send you back the results.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 17, 2021 17:36:01 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Jul 17, 2021 17:11:59 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Yes.  I suspected asbestos tile when it was put on the market, but it hadn’t been identified.  The inspection report from the buyers mentioned possible asbestos, so they backed out.

The market is hotter than it was a year ago, so would like to strike while the iron is hot.  I also want the house gone.  The house is not in bad shape, the other problems in the report were nit picky things.  

It’s a nice little house with lake access if you are not looking for walk in closets, en suite bathrooms and huge rooms.  It does have a nicely open floor plan where the kitchen/living room/dining room all run into each other.

My sibling is looking for a lake house - what State is this in??  Ok,  my sib is looking in Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky...   

NY.

[stillmovingforward]

You don't know it's asbestos. I'd get it tested before making any decisions. And keep the house on the market.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 17, 2021 19:31:42 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

You don't know it's asbestos. I'd get it tested before making any decisions. And keep the house on the market.

If we get it tested, then we need to disclose it.

Right now, I feel the choices are try to retile over the possible asbestos tile or to do an abatement.

[Opti]

Jul 17, 2021 20:05:05 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jul 17, 2021 19:31:42 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

You don't know it's asbestos. I'd get it tested before making any decisions. And keep the house on the market.

If we get it tested, then we need to disclose it.

Right now, I feel the choices are try to retile over the possible asbestos tile or to do an abatement.

I'd test it. What if its not asbestos tile? If so much of it broke, why not remove it all? And then retile.

[Deleted]

The only thing I know about asbestos is from my job. There is asbestos in the building materials, specifically the floor. So we have to have several meetings about it every year since I’ve been there.

It’s been drummed into my head for over 20 years, that asbestos isn’t really dangerous as long as the materials that contain it are intact. But once the materials are “messed with” (my words), to be removed, or are broken, the asbestos is released into the air, and potentially inhaled into the lungs of anyone around. Which is why, as recently as last week, I waltzed away from my work area because our maintenance department was drilling into the floor without taking any of the precautions we’ve been told are necessary, like isolating the area to contain the debris….. and dared (to myself) anyone from management to say something to me about it. But I digress.

I know that any house built in the 70’s or before may (or even is likely to) contain asbestos somewhere, and both of mine were built in that time period. So I know to be aware of the possibility. I don’t know how much it costs to have it safely removed though. But if either of my houses had broken tiles or whatever before I bought it, that would have been a problem for me. I would’ve needed an expert to determine whether the tiles actually contained asbestos, and if they did, the seller would have had to have it all removed before I would’ve even considered buying the property.

But my awareness is mostly due to my job and all the talks/meetings over the years because our building has asbestos in it. The average person probably wouldn’t be as aware of the potential problem.

If it were me selling the house, I’d probably just have it all removed, just because it’s the right thing to do imo, given my understanding of the health risks IRT asbestos, even if I’m not the one that will be living there. But having it all removed also eliminates the need to disclose to potential buyers that the broken tiles are a potentially serious hazard to the occupants’ health and life.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 17, 2021 20:25:02 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 17, 2021 20:05:05 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

If we get it tested, then we need to disclose it.

Right now, I feel the choices are try to retile over the possible asbestos tile or to do an abatement.

I'd test it. What if its not asbestos tile? If so much of it broke, why not remove it all? And then retile.

Because if it is asbestos, removing about 900 sq ft of tile is going to cost $$$$ (which I will likely have to pay for).  If we tile over it, we still don’t know if it is asbestos or not, but it has been encapsulated….which should be sufficient.  

Once we test, we have to disclose to potential buyers.

[stillmovingforward]

If you can tile or encapsulate it (lay flooring over it) somehow, that would be best. And you can honestly state that you didn't know it was asbestos.

[ArchietheDragon]

I ripped up my asbestos basement tile myself. Like your dads house mine got flooded so when it was wet I pulled it out. If I were you I found find someone who would come and pull it out no questions asked....

[Tiny]

Jul 17, 2021 21:29:45 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

I ripped up my asbestos basement tile myself. Like your dads house mine got flooded so when it was wet I pulled it out. If I were you I found find someone who would come and pull it out no questions asked....

   this happens a lot in my area. 

Here's a link about doing the removal yourself (or finding a contractor to do it for you): 
www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbestos/floortile/resft.html

I'm guessing google-ing your State or county or city and "removing asbestos tile" will get you some clues as to what it might take.   It might not be that bad.
    

[movinonup]

Asbestos tile that is in tact is not dangerous.  if there are any more pieces that have come loose, I would spray them with water remove them.  Always wet the pieces in case there are loose fibers, and immediately place the pieces into a garbage bag.

Here is advice from This Old House to simply cover it with carpet.

I had posted a link to the Minnesota page, then realized that it was the same one that Tiny posted.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Don’t you have to disclose the buyers report to any other buyers? If it is just covered up, I would think that would turn off any possible buyers and make it harder for them to test it if get wanted to.

As a buyer, I would be scared to buy something that wasn’t tested or abated. It would make me question what else has been”covered up” (even if that was the only thing. I wouldn’t know that and wouldn’t want to chance it)

[movinonup]

Jul 18, 2021 9:37:13 GMT -5 Mardi Gras Audrey said:

Don’t you have to disclose the buyers report to any other buyers? If it is just covered up, I would think that would turn off any possible buyers and make it harder for them to test it if get wanted to.

As a buyer, I would be scared to buy something that wasn’t tested or abated. It would make me question what else has been”covered up” (even if that was the only thing. I wouldn’t know that and wouldn’t want to chance it)

I would absolutely disclose this.  In the part of New York where I live, if the eventual buyer pays thousands of dollars to clean up the tile and finds out that the seller knew and did not disclose the possibility that the asbestos existed, you can count on a lawsuit. 

Covering up the tile with carpet will prevent the fibers from getting airborne.  Asbestos fibers are dangerous when they get into your lungs.  The advice from This Old House does include informing the next owner that asbestos tiles were covered.

If it's not too expensive, it may make sense to have the tile tested.  If it comes back with no asbestos, then you attach the lab report to the inspector's report or remove the tile without worry.  If it shows asbestos, maybe carpet over, as per This Old House, and show that the tile has been properly encapsulated.

[jerseygirl]

I am concerned about basement tile after reading this
Home Depot has a kit $9 to collect sample that’s sent to a testing lab $40
Also read that between 1920 - 1960 very commonly used, after 1960 use of asbestos tiles less common. Asbestos tiles usually had a black adhesive. Our house was built in 1957 but had an addition put on later, pretty sure tiles were from that time. To reassure going to get test kit

www.bobvila.com/articles/asbestos-floor-tiles/

[crazycat]

Had to totally gut our kitchen due to leak under sink . Our home is 103 years old. Ended up have 7 additional layers under our tile floor . Had to have multiple abatement removals due to them finding asbestos and lead in different layers of the flooring . Last one was the really old 8/9 inch square linoleum pieces . All in all , I think our insurance paid out more than $10k for the remediation/ abatement . But that’s also because they would do part of the floor and then come back and do another . It was along drawn out process . Our whole house is 830 sq feet , kitchen area is probably almost half of that . 

[dondub]

Jul 17, 2021 13:06:56 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

So we received the inspector's report on my dad's house that the sale fell through. A lot of the things that were issues were really nit picky things - things you'd expect to see in a house that was built in the 1950s. Some were very easily dealt with, but the biggie was the possible (it wasn't tested) asbestos in the basement floor tile (not unexpected). SM has dealt with the electrical issues already, and the smoke detectors (which had no batteries??!!!!).



At this point, I have no idea how much it would cost to do an asbestos abatement for about 900? sq ft of tile floor. Has anyone done any abatement and can you tell me how much we are looking at?  I'd be surprised if there is even a local company in town that can do this, so would likely have to add travel onto this too.  

My flooring guy would do a leveling float right over the top then come back with some LVP over the top of the dried leveling compound. Case closed as it is now sealed. Also, don’t get it tested or you will have to disclose on the Form 17 if there is asbestos. Better to not know.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 18, 2021 19:43:15 GMT -5 dondub said:

Jul 17, 2021 13:06:56 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

So we received the inspector's report on my dad's house that the sale fell through. A lot of the things that were issues were really nit picky things - things you'd expect to see in a house that was built in the 1950s. Some were very easily dealt with, but the biggie was the possible (it wasn't tested) asbestos in the basement floor tile (not unexpected). SM has dealt with the electrical issues already, and the smoke detectors (which had no batteries??!!!!).



At this point, I have no idea how much it would cost to do an asbestos abatement for about 900? sq ft of tile floor. Has anyone done any abatement and can you tell me how much we are looking at?  I'd be surprised if there is even a local company in town that can do this, so would likely have to add travel onto this too.  

My flooring guy would do a leveling float right over the top then come back with some LVP over the top of the dried leveling compound. Case closed as it is now sealed. Also, don’t get it tested or you will have to disclose on the Form 17 if there is asbestos. Better to not know.

This I did know.  SM appears to be on it right now.  Her son does this stuff, so hopefully would do the same.  I need to call her about it.

[MN-Investor]

Not exactly on topic, but related and someone might be interested.

I had the insulation in my attic replaced in Feb 2019. The old vermiculite insulation had asbestos and so I had to get it professionally removed. The insulation removal cost $5,841. The new insulation cost $2,895. So $8,736 total. However, I got a rebate from my energy company of $500 for getting better insulation and there's a fund set up to reimburse people who have asbestos insulation in their attics. They paid me $4,203.37. So my net cost was $4,032.63.

If your attic has vermiculite insulation, check out Zonolite Attic Insulation Trust.