Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 18, 2021 2:54:23 GMT -5
hhmm yes,
The Afghan army was many times bigger than that of the Taliban ..... but they didn't fight..... and the takeover was too quick to get everyone out.
Many citizens want the Taliban.
The new leadership is making promises on TV at the moment to placate the UN..... but whether its going to be any different to 20 years ago..... remains to be seen. Whether they have control over the foot soldiers (who appear to be committing atrocities)......remains to be seen. I hope so..... but suspect not.
Either way the solution to the problems that Afghanistan faces ...... was always going to come from the Country itself and not from outside influences.
We are accepting refugees.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 18, 2021 9:19:23 GMT -5
I haven't googled yet... but who is in charge of the "Taliban"? I have not yet seen a name of someone who is the "leader" or the name of a group of people who are in charge and directing the army. Who do all the Taliban soldiers rally around? Why no names - why is it always the Taliban surely someone is in charge and everyone in the Taliban army KNOWS who that is and has possibly sworn loyalty to them? What good is an army the leadership can't control? (as it means there may be infighting to the point of bloodshed). I would assume taking over a country and then running it - means that there is someone at the top and that person is surrounded by loyal people who are in charge of the "army". How do the foot soldiers get paid? Where does the money the Taliban has come from? I assume they need to buy ammunition and pay their soldiers (and maybe feed and house them) and they have to pay their "back office" people - the people who support the soldiers. How does the Taliban generate income?? FWIW: I read (new york times?) that once trump and the Taliban signed a deal (that did not include the Afghan government) many of the local officials in cities, towns, villages across Afghanistan started making deals (aka bribes) with their local Taliban forces (how does that even work if there is a central person or group running things ) in an attempt to avert violence and bloodshed when the transition to the "new" Afghan government happened. If this is true - it doesn't point to the "Taliban" as being very organized (it sounds like it's every military group that calls itself aligned with the "Taliban" for itself and only being "Taliban" when it's convenient).
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 18, 2021 9:51:51 GMT -5
I think the Taliban is from the South.... the Northern warlords control the North and are a varied grouping They are all funded by opium.
After 9/11 the US supported the Northern warlords and the mujahideen in their route of the Taliban.... then put them in charge.... but it wasn't a good plan in that the new leaders were just as corrupt.
That's my simplistic assessment.
You are right the Taliban is also a varied grouping. Some of its exiled leaders are now travelling to the Country.
I hope they are different but they can't change too much as most of the old guard are still there..... and would never agree to it.
Are the Northern factions going to let them rule in peace?..... doubt it.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 18, 2021 10:05:10 GMT -5
I think Afghanistan goes back to the status quo ante. Regional "governments" control swaths of the country, with very little central control. Unless the Taliban has really changed.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 18, 2021 14:26:03 GMT -5
I haven't googled yet... but who is in charge of the "Taliban"? I have not yet seen a name of someone who is the "leader" or the name of a group of people who are in charge and directing the army. Who do all the Taliban soldiers rally around? Why no names - why is it always the Taliban surely someone is in charge and everyone in the Taliban army KNOWS who that is and has possibly sworn loyalty to them? What good is an army the leadership can't control? (as it means there may be infighting to the point of bloodshed). I would assume taking over a country and then running it - means that there is someone at the top and that person is surrounded by loyal people who are in charge of the "army". How do the foot soldiers get paid? Where does the money the Taliban has come from? I assume they need to buy ammunition and pay their soldiers (and maybe feed and house them) and they have to pay their "back office" people - the people who support the soldiers. How does the Taliban generate income?? FWIW: I read (new york times?) that once trump and the Taliban signed a deal (that did not include the Afghan government) many of the local officials in cities, towns, villages across Afghanistan started making deals (aka bribes) with their local Taliban forces (how does that even work if there is a central person or group running things ) in an attempt to avert violence and bloodshed when the transition to the "new" Afghan government happened. If this is true - it doesn't point to the "Taliban" as being very organized (it sounds like it's every military group that calls itself aligned with the "Taliban" for itself and only being "Taliban" when it's convenient). Abdul Ghani Baradar
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 18, 2021 14:37:48 GMT -5
How many Afghan refugees is the US accepting?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2021 15:06:09 GMT -5
How many Afghan refugees is the US accepting? I can't give you an exact number. the first number I heard was in the thousands. but I now believe it is in the "tens of thousands". the transport schedules they have arranged could move as many as 100k in the next two weeks.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 18, 2021 16:36:54 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 18, 2021 16:42:09 GMT -5
The Afghans are responsible for this mess.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Aug 19, 2021 7:18:19 GMT -5
Face the truth. A lot of those evacuees are going to be Taliban.
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Post by Opti on Aug 19, 2021 7:35:31 GMT -5
Face the truth. A lot of those evacuees are going to be Taliban. Why would they be Taliban? Your side triumphs again and your first thought would be to leave the country?
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Aug 19, 2021 7:42:32 GMT -5
I won't even try to explain their hate of the U.S. and how far they are willing to go.
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mary2029
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Post by mary2029 on Aug 19, 2021 8:22:14 GMT -5
That's not how I read that article and this similar article.I read them to mean that the US has asked multiple countries including Albania, Qatar, Uganda, North Macedonia, etc. to temporarily accept people with the ultimate goal of bringing them to the US. This is only a stop gap to save as many people as possible without causing another crisis. From the article I linked: "The United Nations has estimated that nearly 4,00,000 Afghans have already been forced to flee their homes since the start of this year. This, over the already 2.9 million Afghans that had already been internally displaced at the end of 2020. Some 80 percent of nearly a quarter of a million Afghans forced to flee since the end of May are women and children, as per the UN.... ...Most of the displaced, sadly, have been unable to leave the country. As per the United Nations, the overwhelming majority of Afghans forced to flee remain within the country, as close to their homes as fighting will allow. Since the beginning of this year, nearly 1,20,000 Afghans have fled from rural areas and provincial towns to Kabul province." Note: I am not that naive to think that the temporary hosting of people will work out as planned. Those who settle in Albania or Uganda for the time it will take to obtain a US visa may want to remain there, they may want to go back as the conditions change, or the US may have a change in leadership and may restrict the process more. I am also not that naive to think that just because Canada has stated that it will accept 20,000 people that it will do so.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 19, 2021 9:07:51 GMT -5
I agree with Tiny. Its hard to know what the mix should be or who was leaving versus who left already. Sad situation though especially on how quick everything collapsed. IDNK Major cable news as well as national networks seem to have able body males that are here already being interviewed, and complaining they cannot get the family out now. ASS BACKWARDS IMO
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 19, 2021 9:10:18 GMT -5
Face the truth. A lot of those evacuees are going to be Taliban. I am shocked seeing this coming from you. I do not think this is true.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 19, 2021 9:12:41 GMT -5
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 19, 2021 9:33:45 GMT -5
I thought your PM was fine taking in people of the muslim faith when Trump tried stopping them. Has he or the citizens of Canada had a change of heart? Were your troops not over there breaking the country? Canada helped break it, you own it.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 19, 2021 9:48:06 GMT -5
I thought your PM was fine taking in people of the muslim faith when Trump tried stopping them. Has he or the citizens of Canada had a change of heart? Were your troops not over there breaking the country? Canada helped break it, you own it. No one was "over there breaking the country". It was an attempt to fix a country that was already broken.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 19, 2021 11:14:02 GMT -5
Face the truth. A lot of those evacuees are going to be Taliban. A lot? Do you believe "a lot" of our translators were Taliban spies? I heard (but wtf do i know) the background checks are pretty rigorous. Do you think that "a lot" of people would uproot their entire family to live in a place they have a strong hatred for, be in danger and carry out some plot to destroy America? Wouldn't it be more efficient to work with Russia who has been working a great plan to have us destroy ourselves?
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 19, 2021 11:31:45 GMT -5
Just how many people are we (collective we as in UN, and other countries) going to realistically evacuate? We need to focus on those that helped us first, and their families. Yes, women and children need help too, but are we just going to evacuate half the population of the country? At what point do we say that enough is enough?
I am only asking out of curiosity. Because it seems like we are evacuating way more afghans than originally planned, and that is obviously going to throw a wrench in the original plan. Evacuating 80k people is a lot different than over a million people (or more).
The numbers seem to be all over the place, depending on what you are reading.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 19, 2021 11:32:06 GMT -5
Some politician from Britain was on Fox this morning bitching about how Biden fucked this up, and we should have left troops there and the whole world will fall apart now. And I thought - if it is that bad, and you know the solution, why don't you implement it? Why don't you send a few thousand troops in to keep the peace? Where has your country been in all of this?
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 19, 2021 11:39:59 GMT -5
Some politician from Britain was on Fox this morning bitching about how Biden fucked this up, and we should have left troops there and the whole world will fall apart now. And I thought - if it is that bad, and you know the solution, why don't you implement it? Why don't you send a few thousand troops in to keep the peace? Where has your country been in all of this? Absolutely, and I've been asking this to everyone who says what a mess this withdrawal was.....what would you have done differently? Its not pretty, it wasn't ever going to be. But all these armchair QBs who have never served in the military, or have never been in public service, let alone high levels of national security, seem to think they have the solution. So lets hear it Billy Bob from Alabama.....what would you have done?!?! This whole thing just has me so frustrated, and I can't even drink right now!
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Aug 19, 2021 12:24:14 GMT -5
Face the truth. A lot of those evacuees are going to be Taliban. I am shocked seeing this coming from you. I do not think this is true. Don't be shocked. In an orderly world, the evacuees would have been screened. This evacuation is chaos.
The countries that took in refugees the last time found out.
A US soldier told me that Taliban would go to refugee camps and live there until ready to strike. From what I just saw online, the US has provided a lot of war equipment that was left behind.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 19, 2021 12:32:04 GMT -5
I am shocked seeing this coming from you. I do not think this is true. Don't be shocked. In an orderly world, the evacuees would have been screened. This evacuation is chaos.
The countries that took in refugees the last time found out.
A US soldier told me that Taliban would go to refugee camps and live there until ready to strike. From what I just saw online, the US has provided a lot of war equipment that was left behind.
The war equipment left behind was for the U.S. trained Afghani military to use in their continued fight against the Taliban. The Afghani military crumbled once there were no Afghani government or military leaders.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Aug 19, 2021 12:42:09 GMT -5
Face the truth. A lot of those evacuees are going to be Taliban. A lot? Do you believe "a lot" of our translators were Taliban spies? I heard (but wtf do i know) the background checks are pretty rigorous. Do you think that "a lot" of people would uproot their entire family to live in a place they have a strong hatred for, be in danger and carry out some plot to destroy America? Wouldn't it be more efficient to work with Russia who has been working a great plan to have us destroy ourselves? I said zero about the translators. In every group there are bad apples. A better question is, are all of these evacuated working for the US? Yes, they will uproot their family to escape. The majority of those evacuated are men. Oh my my. A significant increase in crime from refuges.
The US left behind a lot of valuable equipment for the Taliban.
All we can do is sit back and see how all of this sifts out.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 19, 2021 13:01:08 GMT -5
A lot? Do you believe "a lot" of our translators were Taliban spies? I heard (but wtf do i know) the background checks are pretty rigorous. Do you think that "a lot" of people would uproot their entire family to live in a place they have a strong hatred for, be in danger and carry out some plot to destroy America? Wouldn't it be more efficient to work with Russia who has been working a great plan to have us destroy ourselves? I said zero about the translators. In every group there are bad apples. A better question is, are all of these evacuated working for the US? Yes, they will uproot their family to escape. The majority of those evacuated are men. Oh my my. A significant increase in crime from refuges.
The US left behind a lot of valuable equipment for the Taliban.
All we can do is sit back and see how all of this sifts out. If they are Taliban, why would they need to escape?
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 19, 2021 14:15:02 GMT -5
A lot? Do you believe "a lot" of our translators were Taliban spies? I heard (but wtf do i know) the background checks are pretty rigorous. Do you think that "a lot" of people would uproot their entire family to live in a place they have a strong hatred for, be in danger and carry out some plot to destroy America? Wouldn't it be more efficient to work with Russia who has been working a great plan to have us destroy ourselves? I said zero about the translators. In every group there are bad apples. A better question is, are all of these evacuated working for the US? Yes, they will uproot their family to escape. The majority of those evacuated are men. Oh my my. A significant increase in crime from refuges.
The US left behind a lot of valuable equipment for the Taliban.
All we can do is sit back and see how all of this sifts out. If they evacuate the country, what good is the equipment in Afghanistan to them?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 19, 2021 14:22:23 GMT -5
I said zero about the translators. In every group there are bad apples. A better question is, are all of these evacuated working for the US? Yes, they will uproot their family to escape. The majority of those evacuated are men. Oh my my. A significant increase in crime from refuges.
The US left behind a lot of valuable equipment for the Taliban.
All we can do is sit back and see how all of this sifts out. If they are Taliban, why would they need to escape? For revenge on the infidels duh. Don't you know anything about how Middle Eastern brown men work? I always think there is no way the board could get any more xenophobic/racist and then it accepts the challenge.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 19, 2021 15:14:13 GMT -5
That's not how I read that article and this similar article.I read them to mean that the US has asked multiple countries including Albania, Qatar, Uganda, North Macedonia, etc. to temporarily accept people with the ultimate goal of bringing them to the US. This is only a stop gap to save as many people as possible without causing another crisis. From the article I linked: "The United Nations has estimated that nearly 4,00,000 Afghans have already been forced to flee their homes since the start of this year. This, over the already 2.9 million Afghans that had already been internally displaced at the end of 2020. Some 80 percent of nearly a quarter of a million Afghans forced to flee since the end of May are women and children, as per the UN.... ...Most of the displaced, sadly, have been unable to leave the country. As per the United Nations, the overwhelming majority of Afghans forced to flee remain within the country, as close to their homes as fighting will allow. Since the beginning of this year, nearly 1,20,000 Afghans have fled from rural areas and provincial towns to Kabul province." Note: I am not that naive to think that the temporary hosting of people will work out as planned. Those who settle in Albania or Uganda for the time it will take to obtain a US visa may want to remain there, they may want to go back as the conditions change, or the US may have a change in leadership and may restrict the process more. I am also not that naive to think that just because Canada has stated that it will accept 20,000 people that it will do so. Oh, it will do so. We took in over 25,000 Syrian refugees. How many did the USA take?
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mary2029
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Post by mary2029 on Aug 19, 2021 17:00:35 GMT -5
That's not how I read that article and this similar article.I read them to mean that the US has asked multiple countries including Albania, Qatar, Uganda, North Macedonia, etc. to temporarily accept people with the ultimate goal of bringing them to the US. This is only a stop gap to save as many people as possible without causing another crisis. From the article I linked: "The United Nations has estimated that nearly 4,00,000 Afghans have already been forced to flee their homes since the start of this year. This, over the already 2.9 million Afghans that had already been internally displaced at the end of 2020. Some 80 percent of nearly a quarter of a million Afghans forced to flee since the end of May are women and children, as per the UN.... ...Most of the displaced, sadly, have been unable to leave the country. As per the United Nations, the overwhelming majority of Afghans forced to flee remain within the country, as close to their homes as fighting will allow. Since the beginning of this year, nearly 1,20,000 Afghans have fled from rural areas and provincial towns to Kabul province." Note: I am not that naive to think that the temporary hosting of people will work out as planned. Those who settle in Albania or Uganda for the time it will take to obtain a US visa may want to remain there, they may want to go back as the conditions change, or the US may have a change in leadership and may restrict the process more. I am also not that naive to think that just because Canada has stated that it will accept 20,000 people that it will do so. Oh, it will do so. We took in over 25,000 Syrian refugees. How many did the USA take? One of my points was that planning/promising =/ doing. So, thank you for providing an example of this. Justin Trudeau's campaign promise (link): "At the height of the Syrian refugee crisis, Trudeau said the Liberals would bring 25,000 refugees to Canada by the end of 2015." Canada's action (link): "Under the resettlement initiative known as Operation Syrian Refugees, 26,172 Syrian refugees were resettled in Canada within 118 days, between November 2015 and February 2016, with one of the first government-arranged flights landing on Dec. 10, 2015." Two months? Who cares about two months? Considering that the Taliban are beating and shooting protestors and seeking those who helped the US, every day is significant. Which was my second point: any help that Albania or Uganda or other countries can provide now while the US processes the people (and makes sure that they aren't Taliban) is greatly appreciated by the Biden Administration.
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