billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 8, 2021 22:10:13 GMT -5
And that is how a Commander-in-Chief gets it done. Good job Mr President.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 8, 2021 22:23:46 GMT -5
I do hope the U.S. helps all those Afghans (and their families) who acted as interpreters for our troops escape Afghanistan and find safe harbor in a friendly country. This wish also applies to other Afghans who helped the U.S. in one way or another find safe harbor elsewhere too.
The U.S. owes them that much for their help and service.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 8, 2021 23:12:46 GMT -5
Slightly OT, but does anyone watch the TV series 'United States of AL'?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 9, 2021 7:21:35 GMT -5
I’m worried about the women. Women have no rights and are allowed to do nothing but birth babies under the Taliban.
That said, Afghanistan never had a chance of success since the British tried to cobble a bunch of warlord territories into one modern state. The Russians couldn’t do it and we can’t, and it’s time to stop pouring money and people into that hole.
Best thing they could do is probably to split back into feudal lands while we try to sneak out all the women who want to leave. Eventually there won’t be enough women to hatch a new batch of feudal warlords/religious terrorists.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 9, 2021 8:32:32 GMT -5
I’m worried about the women. Women have no rights and are allowed to do nothing but birth babies under the Taliban. That said, Afghanistan never had a chance of success since the British tried to cobble a bunch of warlord territories into one modern state. The Russians couldn’t do it and we can’t, and it’s time to stop pouring money and people into that hole. Best thing they could do is probably to split back into feudal lands while we try to sneak out all the women who want to leave. Eventually there won’t be enough women to hatch a new batch of feudal warlords/religious terrorists. There are so many women in danger all over the world, including here. I hope those who could escape to better countries did so, when they could, I am having a hard time saving myself, so saving non local peeps is going to have to wait ... for me. I think what would be best is if some collection of countries would listen to some of the Afghan people to see if they can find a solution. Those who worked with the US and various activists would be a start. It might not be time yet for things to change for the better for Afghan women, but hopefully sometime in the future it will be.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 9, 2021 9:00:35 GMT -5
Geez, I protested this back in 2001 and thru out it's history. It seems to have been a decades long clusterfuck. I have to wonder who benefited from this other than the military and the companies that supply it.
FWIW: This has been in the works for a long time. Part of trump's time in office was to get it started. Biden finished it.
I have long had the feeling that we are only extricating ourselves from a mess and leaving everyone in Afghanistan who had any connection what so ever to our Troops in an even bigger mess. I have a feeling things like this will happen there "your next door neighbor didn't "jeer" hard enough at the Americans you did nothing about it - off to prison and torture you go!" It's not going to be pretty.
Part of me was cringing at what we might have heard and seem from trump and the GOP if they had completed this withdrawal. I'm glad someone who can stick to a script and who can emote some compassion is in charge.
I have no illusion that most of the powers that be -- GOP and DEM are heaving a sigh of relief that this has come to an "end" of sorts.
Now they can divert troops and money to a brand new war or to one of the existing ones we are involved in.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 9, 2021 9:32:20 GMT -5
Two decades. We stayed twice as long as the last invaders.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 9, 2021 10:36:46 GMT -5
I’m worried about the women. Women have no rights and are allowed to do nothing but birth babies under the Taliban. That said, Afghanistan never had a chance of success since the British tried to cobble a bunch of warlord territories into one modern state. The Russians couldn’t do it and we can’t, and it’s time to stop pouring money and people into that hole. Best thing they could do is probably to split back into feudal lands while we try to sneak out all the women who want to leave. Eventually there won’t be enough women to hatch a new batch of feudal warlords/religious terrorists. There are so many women in danger all over the world, including here. I hope those who could escape to better countries did so, when they could, I am having a hard time saving myself, so saving non local peeps is going to have to wait ... for me. I think what would be best is if some collection of countries would listen to some of the Afghan people to see if they can find a solution. Those who worked with the US and various activists would be a start. It might not be time yet for things to change for the better for Afghan women, but hopefully sometime in the future it will be. I am afraid at this point a solution is too late.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 9, 2021 11:17:42 GMT -5
There are some places where they are not ready for any kind of organized government. Afghanistan is one. Somalia is another. Not every country can be a democracy. All we can do is try to help those who want to escape and try to contain their crazy inside their borders.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 9, 2021 14:50:13 GMT -5
it's surprising how much impact we can make, even in the far flung nations.
usually bad.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 9, 2021 17:14:45 GMT -5
If the Western world really cared about Afghanistan every country would have sent, in combination, hundreds of thousands more troops, the Taliban would have been reduced to a Boy Scout troop, and schools and wells and other key infrastructure projects could have been completed in less time with less money.
But as a jaded cynic of US military involvement I see this as just another money making operation for the MIC, damn the trillions wasted and the heroes that came home in a box to ‘save our freedoms’.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 11, 2021 8:07:54 GMT -5
There are so many women in danger all over the world, including here. I hope those who could escape to better countries did so, when they could, I am having a hard time saving myself, so saving non local peeps is going to have to wait ... for me. I think what would be best is if some collection of countries would listen to some of the Afghan people to see if they can find a solution. Those who worked with the US and various activists would be a start. It might not be time yet for things to change for the better for Afghan women, but hopefully sometime in the future it will be. I am afraid at this point a solution is too late. When it is time for a solution, it might arise on its own. Now is not that time, nor will it be anytime in Biden's first term. I don't know enough about Afghanistan to guess, but after the Earth survives this pandemic, scholars and perhaps our own State Department can start blocking out an estimate.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 11, 2021 11:15:08 GMT -5
I'm sure our government (and probably the other governments involved) have a 2/3/5/10/15 year plan for Afghanistan. I know it looks like 'big events' done by governments look spur of the moment or knee jerk but there's usually some sort of "plan' or thought of a plan.
I'm guessing even in America that while most of the early 'news' reported reactions/pronouncements from the government seemed 'random' or willy nilly there was some sort of 'emergency plan' even if it didn't get high lighted.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 11, 2021 11:21:02 GMT -5
I'm sure our government (and probably the other governments involved) have a 2/3/5/10/15 year plan for Afghanistan. I know it looks like 'big events' done by governments look spur of the moment or knee jerk but there's usually some sort of "plan' or thought of a plan. I'm guessing even in America that while most of the early 'news' reported reactions/pronouncements from the government seemed 'random' or willy nilly there was some sort of 'emergency plan' even if it didn't get high lighted. A problem for the US is that every four or eight years a new person takes charge who might toss that plan.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 11, 2021 15:22:01 GMT -5
If the Western world really cared about Afghanistan every country would have sent, in combination, hundreds of thousands more troops, the Taliban would have been reduced to a Boy Scout troop, and schools and wells and other key infrastructure projects could have been completed in less time with less money. But as a jaded cynic of US military involvement I see this as just another money making operation for the MIC, damn the trillions wasted and the heroes that came home in a box to ‘save our freedoms’. the problem is that the US tried to solve this problem militarily. the Taliban try to solve it by providing social services. you are never going to win against that, EXCEPT by providing social services. but the US sucks at it. big time. we have for over half a century.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 27, 2021 14:52:21 GMT -5
If the Western world really cared about Afghanistan every country would have sent, in combination, hundreds of thousands more troops, the Taliban would have been reduced to a Boy Scout troop, and schools and wells and other key infrastructure projects could have been completed in less time with less money. But as a jaded cynic of US military involvement I see this as just another money making operation for the MIC, damn the trillions wasted and the heroes that came home in a box to ‘save our freedoms’. I remember GW1 being referred to as an "inventory reduction war". that resonated with me.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 28, 2021 18:24:06 GMT -5
I'm sure our government (and probably the other governments involved) have a 2/3/5/10/15 year plan for Afghanistan. I know it looks like 'big events' done by governments look spur of the moment or knee jerk but there's usually some sort of "plan' or thought of a plan. I'm guessing even in America that while most of the early 'news' reported reactions/pronouncements from the government seemed 'random' or willy nilly there was some sort of 'emergency plan' even if it didn't get high lighted. A problem for the US is that every four or eight years a new person takes charge who might toss that plan. I think most new presidents may tweak the plan. It was just that one guy who seemed to throw out all the previously acquired, carefully thought out knowledge. I saw something (maybe frontline?) That talked about transition of power and how many things don't change **that much**. Presidents usually build on previous foreign policy. That was way before 2016. It may have been while Obama was running in 2008. Things have gotten more partisan even from that time. Maybe we have a future where we blank sheet with every turn over. That could be the end of America.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 29, 2021 13:54:00 GMT -5
Slightly OT, but does anyone watch the TV series 'United States of AL'? I did for four episodes. Stopped watching it mainly because the American family portrayal was slanted to make the father, the military son and daughter seem the fall guy for the smart Afgan refugee.....sort of racial typecasting in reverse. They would have been better as portraying everyone a little smarter. Had no problem with son being portrayed as having issues from his service.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 29, 2021 13:55:57 GMT -5
If the Western world really cared about Afghanistan every country would have sent, in combination, hundreds of thousands more troops, the Taliban would have been reduced to a Boy Scout troop, and schools and wells and other key infrastructure projects could have been completed in less time with less money. But as a jaded cynic of US military involvement I see this as just another money making operation for the MIC, damn the trillions wasted and the heroes that came home in a box to ‘save our freedoms’. the problem is that the US tried to solve this problem militarily. the Taliban try to solve it by providing social services. you are never going to win against that, EXCEPT by providing social services. but the US sucks at it. big time. we have for over half a century.
Hmmn, skipped over the outright murders of civilians, bombing of schools and hospital facilities by the great Taliban.....
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 29, 2021 16:45:43 GMT -5
the problem is that the US tried to solve this problem militarily. the Taliban try to solve it by providing social services. you are never going to win against that, EXCEPT by providing social services. but the US sucks at it. big time. we have for over half a century.
Hmmn, skipped over the outright murders of civilians, bombing of schools and hospital facilities by the great Taliban..... you missed my point entirely. welcome back btw.
my point is that we bomb schools and hospital facilities, torture and murder innocent civilians, and allow monuments to be robbed and desecrated, as well (in violation of the UN Charter). if the Taliban did ONLY those things, we would win.
but the Taliban doesn't ONLY do those things. they also BUILD schools and hospitals, and provide social services. we don't. not in Afghanistan, anyway.
please tell me you get what I am saying, now. I have very little patience for sarcasm these days.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 30, 2021 11:33:14 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 30, 2021 12:25:04 GMT -5
Canada is also working hard to repatriate these interpreters and translators. There are special expedited applications available to them. I heard on the news that these people are having trouble filling them out, because the application forms are in English and French. Aren't they translators and interpreters?
I just found that strange.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 15, 2021 13:00:59 GMT -5
Thinking there might be a new need for this thread to be active again. My take: What is taking place now was inevitable from the time that the United States put boots on the ground. Trump "... if I were now President, the world would find that our withdrawal from Afghanistan would be a conditions-based withdrawal,” link And the Taliban wouldn't have satisfied those conditions so our troops would be there for at least another four years. What we have in President Biden is someone willing to take the hit.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 15, 2021 13:23:04 GMT -5
Agree. If there was an obvious solution, one of the three prior administrations would have taken it. Criticizing by anyone who was involved in Congress, the Pentagon, or other levels of government in the last 20 years, who does not have a viable alternative plan, needs to be ignored. Because, from what I can ascertain, the only other plan was to continue there indefinitely. Nothing that has occurred since we stepped foot there suggests that any other outcome was possible.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 15, 2021 13:43:58 GMT -5
The president has fled the country. The Taliban is now occupying the Presidential Palace. Did nobody foresee this? It was inevitable.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 15, 2021 13:51:21 GMT -5
Agree. If there was an obvious solution, one of the three prior administrations would have taken it. Criticizing by anyone who was involved in Congress, the Pentagon, or other levels of government in the last 20 years, who does not have a viable alternative plan, needs to be ignored. Because, from what I can ascertain, the only other plan was to continue there indefinitely. Nothing that has occurred since we stepped foot there suggests that any other outcome was possible. Nothing that has occurred in that region since the dawn of time suggests that any other outcome was possible.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 15, 2021 13:51:44 GMT -5
What is the alternative. Nothing changed in 20 years. Were we supposed to stay forever?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 15, 2021 15:12:40 GMT -5
Canada's role in Afghanistan cost us 18 billion dollars, not to mention the lives lost.
And for what?
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 15, 2021 15:58:17 GMT -5
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 15, 2021 16:03:04 GMT -5
I’m shocked Trump would back out of a deal
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