Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,394
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jun 23, 2021 21:44:45 GMT -5
New Florida Law Requires Universities To Survey Political Views of Students, FacultyCritics of the legislation say it will have the opposite effect of its stated intent. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on June 22, 2021, signed legislation that would require universities to survey students, faculty, and staff about their political views. The text of the legislation states that the Florida State Board of Education “shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution.” DeSantis suggested the legislation could result in funding cuts for academic institutions. ““We obviously want our universities to be focused on critical thinking, academic rigor,” DeSantis stated, while signing the bill at an elementary school in Fort Myers. “We do not want them as basically hotbeds for stale ideology. That’s not worth tax dollars and it’s not something that we will be supporting.” The Tampa Bay Times reported that despite the legislation’s stated purpose, educators worried that it would instead have a chilling effect on freedom of speech, noting that DeSantis only offered a vague anecdote about knowing “a lot of parents” worried about “indoctrination” in college. Article here: New Florida Law Requires Universities To Survey Political Views of Students, Faculty
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,347
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
|
Post by busymom on Jun 23, 2021 23:23:34 GMT -5
Not a chance. Or, for fun, I might say I was the exact opposite of what I actually believe.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 23, 2021 23:47:35 GMT -5
I saw that. Not sure it would stand but pretty sure my Alma mater students would be telling everyone not to answer.
Also I love how personal responsibility party now implements something because mommy said it of a grown ass adult. Are 18+ adults or not? (Some in the GOP sure think 16 and 17 are adults so college kids are ancient)
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 24, 2021 5:40:03 GMT -5
Based on my kids, good luck getting them to answer the survey!
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,869
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 24, 2021 7:21:56 GMT -5
When he says stale ideology that means critical race theory.
I was asked to complete a religious survey in college. I told them I was a Druid and worshipped trees.
I would expect the current crop of college students to be equally creative.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 23, 2024 11:53:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 7:56:46 GMT -5
|
|
grumpyhermit
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jul 12, 2012 12:04:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,432
|
Post by grumpyhermit on Jun 24, 2021 8:04:18 GMT -5
Here's hoping when they get a terrible response rate they don't chalk it up to a liberal conspiracy.
Anyone that surveys anyone, especially college students, knows that just getting them to OPEN an email/message is a battle in and of itself. And then to get them to complete a survey that is sure to raise all sorts of red flags? Good luck.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,448
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Jun 24, 2021 8:47:47 GMT -5
I think it is critical to get a handle on university staff's political views. I have heard from many parents that their children are being indoctrinated into radical ideologies by the night-time custodian crews leaving left- wing pamphlets in classrooms. And don't get me started on meal service staff. Honestly, what percentage of faculty and staff are engaging students in ideological material.
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,918
Member is Online
|
Post by bean29 on Jun 24, 2021 8:52:36 GMT -5
I am very worried about being profiled. I would not want to answer, but if the only ones that answer are hard right republicans, does the teaching shift to their platform aligned ideals.
Even them just talking about doing this probably affects what ideas are being presented.
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,869
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 24, 2021 9:03:02 GMT -5
One of the big reasons to send your kid to college is to expose them to different religions, lifestyles, political ideas, etc and then apply critical thinking skills to determine what to believe and what to set aside. If you’ve done your job as parent in a halfway decent way your kind is not going to suddenly switch his lifestyle just because he’s heard something new.
There was a flamboyant gay guy who was also a communist on my campus, which was unusual in the 80s. Somehow, I did not become gay or communist
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,448
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Jun 24, 2021 9:18:17 GMT -5
One of the big reasons to send your kid to college is to expose them to different religions, lifestyles, political ideas, etc and then apply critical thinking skills to determine what to believe and what to set aside. If you’ve done your job as parent in a halfway decent way your kind is not going to suddenly switch his lifestyle just because he’s heard something new. There was a flamboyant gay guy who was also a communist on my campus, which was unusual in the 80s. Somehow, I did not become gay or communist Back in the 80's, the two year LDS college in Idaho surveyed their former students who had transferred to 4 year schools. One question they asked was along the lines of, "Has the school you are now attending forced you question the basic tenets of your religion?" I know this because I happened to walk into one of my education professor's office as he was reading the results from that year. He was absolutely giddy that our university had the highest percentage once again answering, "Yes."
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,869
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 24, 2021 9:43:23 GMT -5
One of the big reasons to send your kid to college is to expose them to different religions, lifestyles, political ideas, etc and then apply critical thinking skills to determine what to believe and what to set aside. If you’ve done your job as parent in a halfway decent way your kind is not going to suddenly switch his lifestyle just because he’s heard something new. There was a flamboyant gay guy who was also a communist on my campus, which was unusual in the 80s. Somehow, I did not become gay or communist Back in the 80's, the two year LDS college in Idaho surveyed their former students who had transferred to 4 year schools. One question they asked was along the lines of, "Has the school you are now attending forced you question the basic tenets of your religion?" I know this because I happened to walk into one of my education professor's office as he was reading the results from that year. He was absolutely giddy that our university had the highest percentage once again answering, "Yes." I wonder if that had more to do with the university pushing kids to question their religion or with the LDS being a fairly insular community and the LDS kids not being exposed to other religions prior to college?
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 24, 2021 9:56:58 GMT -5
Having been a university employee for the biggest part of my career…..that would be a HELL NO! Any sort of survey like this would goin the circular file.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,448
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Jun 24, 2021 10:11:41 GMT -5
Back in the 80's, the two year LDS college in Idaho surveyed their former students who had transferred to 4 year schools. One question they asked was along the lines of, "Has the school you are now attending forced you question the basic tenets of your religion?" I know this because I happened to walk into one of my education professor's office as he was reading the results from that year. He was absolutely giddy that our university had the highest percentage once again answering, "Yes." I wonder if that had more to do with the university pushing kids to question their religion or with the LDS being a fairly insular community and the LDS kids not being exposed to other religions prior to college? Good question. I don't remember the range of difference in those answering "Yes" from different 4 year institutions. If it was small, that would support it was more generic.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 24, 2021 10:14:44 GMT -5
It's students, faculty, and staff. So no it's not just for the faculty. And the only way it would "prevent one sided indoctrination" is if the governor's office is going to then require staff and faculty to be fired if things are 'lopsided' and require a university to allow an even number of students on both sides.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 23, 2024 11:53:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 10:24:20 GMT -5
It's students, faculty, and staff. So no it's not just for the faculty. And the only way it would "prevent one sided indoctrination" is if the governor's office is going to then require staff and faculty to be fired if things are 'lopsided' and require a university to allow an even number of students on both sides. It's not that important to me, just trying to find out what it is. Don't see what a 'survey' is going to accomplish anyway. This smacks more of pandering to a political position for votes.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 24, 2021 10:49:42 GMT -5
It's students, faculty, and staff. So no it's not just for the faculty. And the only way it would "prevent one sided indoctrination" is if the governor's office is going to then require staff and faculty to be fired if things are 'lopsided' and require a university to allow an even number of students on both sides. It's not that important to me, just trying to find out what it is. Don't see what a 'survey' is going to accomplish anyway. This smacks more of pandering to a political position for votes. It's fucking desantis - everything he's doing right now is pandering trying to get support for a 2024 run.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,380
Member is Online
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 24, 2021 11:00:40 GMT -5
I know there are circumstances where the government can compel you to tell them things. But those seem fairly limited. The courts can force you to disclose all your financial records, but as part of that they can't ask you the color of your underwear. Can they force anyone to disclose political ideology and religious beliefs? I don't know enough about the constitution. I know they can't prevent you from stating your politics or religion, but can they force you to disclose that?
As my son chooses colleges, I have gently discouraged him from certain colleges that have a religious background. I am school shopping to make sure he gets indoctrinated. Granted, he will go where he wants to go - but right now he has stated that there are certain non-starters, and religion seems to be one of them.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,394
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jun 24, 2021 11:21:24 GMT -5
|
|
grumpyhermit
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jul 12, 2012 12:04:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,432
|
Post by grumpyhermit on Jun 24, 2021 11:37:54 GMT -5
Ah yes, the "diverse thinking" of 1770s.
|
|
Cheesy FL-Vol
Junior Associate
"Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -- Helen Keller
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:13:50 GMT -5
Posts: 6,691
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":""}
|
Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Jun 24, 2021 11:57:08 GMT -5
I like how these folks are against indoctrination. No irony there at all.
Aren’t these the same people who yammer about freedom of choice?
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 24, 2021 12:09:38 GMT -5
Want your kids to grow up with a religious education SEND THEM TO CHURCH. School is not the place to learn about religious values. History of religion - sure. This guys is also full of it if he thinks shit like this will stop the youngins from mass exodusing religion. It's the controlling backwards hypocritical stuff that's making them leave.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,306
|
Post by swamp on Jun 24, 2021 14:43:41 GMT -5
NFW
|
|
haapai
Junior Associate
Character
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,880
|
Post by haapai on Jun 24, 2021 15:02:51 GMT -5
A lot depends on whether the survey is conducted by mail or by logging onto a site. When the survey is on paper, you can see all of the questions at once and strategize a bit as to how to give useless answers.. When the survey is online and questions are asked one at a time, it's much harder to come up with a FU/MYOB response and harder to believe that it is anonymous. It's also much harder to scrawl FU on the paper and mail it off.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,051
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 24, 2021 15:22:13 GMT -5
governor DeSantis is at it again, I see.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,212
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 24, 2021 15:33:47 GMT -5
““We obviously want our universities to be focused on critical thinking, academic rigor,” DeSantis stated, while signing the bill at an elementary school in Fort Myers. “We do not want them as basically hotbeds for stale ideology. That’s not worth tax dollars and it’s not something that we will be supporting.”
Translation: We don't want our students getting ideas that brown people, gay people, Muslims, Jews, LBGTQ+ and woman are equals. Nor do we want them figuring out evolution is actually a thing, the holocaust happened, COVID or that climate change might actually be something to worry about.
The party of "individual freedom/rights" for White Straight Christian males. All the rest you can f* off.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,380
Member is Online
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 24, 2021 15:54:12 GMT -5
I bet if you paid primary school teachers big time money you would see some different types of people teaching. A return to capitalism!
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,212
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 24, 2021 15:58:09 GMT -5
"I think that those of us who have diverse thinking and look at both sides of the issue, see that the way the cards are stacked in the education system, is toward the left and toward the liberal ideology and also secularism — and those were not the values that our country was founded on.
WTF? That's EXACTLY what it was founded on because their views were based on the enlightenment. The enlightenment valued reason and science over dogma. We are NOT a Christian religion. They went out of their way to NOT create a state endorsed religion which was a distinction from England and Rome where the church/government were considered one at the time.
Which party exactly is out to revise history here?
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,869
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 24, 2021 17:13:18 GMT -5
It's not that important to me, just trying to find out what it is. Don't see what a 'survey' is going to accomplish anyway. This smacks more of pandering to a political position for votes. It's fucking desantis - everything he's doing right now is pandering trying to get support for a 2024 run. I think the campaign slogan for the person running against DeSantis should be ‘It’s fucking DeSantis.’
|
|
sesfw
Junior Associate
Today is the first day of the rest of my life
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 15:45:17 GMT -5
Posts: 6,268
|
Post by sesfw on Jun 24, 2021 17:23:35 GMT -5
No .....
Any time I'm cornered into a survey I usually give the opposite of my thoughts.
Messes with their outcome
|
|