billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2021 12:19:39 GMT -5
I think the complexities make slow movement necessary. Jerseys are tricky. The name on the back rightfully belongs to the individual but if it is a replica of the official school jersey, everything else including historical recognition of it as that school's image belongs to the school. Plus if a manufacturer has had their hand in developing the design, that is another layer. Is it though? Pro sports somehow manage to pass money onto the athletes for jerseys sold while taking into account the recognition of the pro team and the brand of the jersey. Copy/paste how pro jersey sells are a split up and move on. I think the pro's just have a % of all sales into one big bucket and then it's split evenly by every player in the league. Now the pro licensing is central - I don't know if college is by NCAA or conference or school. Prob not be a large amount per athlete. Is that a NFLPA negotiated agreement? My guess it is.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 22, 2021 12:24:21 GMT -5
Is it though? Pro sports somehow manage to pass money onto the athletes for jerseys sold while taking into account the recognition of the pro team and the brand of the jersey. Copy/paste how pro jersey sells are a split up and move on. I think the pro's just have a % of all sales into one big bucket and then it's split evenly by every player in the league. Now the pro licensing is central - I don't know if college is by NCAA or conference or school. Prob not be a large amount per athlete. Is that a NFLPA negotiated agreement? My guess it is. I would assume anything dealing with the players would be.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 22, 2021 12:34:55 GMT -5
Every national championship in every collegiate sport is bought. It's who has the most money to get the best players.
Nephew taught at Alabama for one year. It was clear football players would pass the course with more than a C. He left after one year for greener pastures. At the next school and at current one, he has not been told an athlete gets a certain grade--earned or not.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 22, 2021 12:35:22 GMT -5
The vast majority of college athletes will never go pro and of those that do many of them aren't in a position to go pro for a few years, i.e. football players who can't go pro until after their sophomore season based on the current rules, basketball/baseball/hockey/soccer players who may not get drafted until after their junior or even senior seasons and so on. Watch the NCAA tourney and every year we see good college players who make their schools a lot of money and they aren't going to end up making money as pros. I don't know about a payment structure but the fact that some players can't afford food or even gas when they make their schools millions tells me there's something wrong with the current structure. I realize they're getting an education out of it but the NCAA has made hundreds of billions off of college athletes and their likenesses for years while student athletes have been penalized for things as simple as getting a free meal. The answer lies somewhere between the current structure of the NCAA making billions off of student athletes and student athletes getting penalized for ridiculous violations. Obviously I know many college athletes never play in the pros. Change the rules to allow any HS athlete to go to the Pro's/minors. Easier than coming up with an equitable compensation structure. It will bring up racial issues (many of the top men's basketball player are black), how do we make it equitable? The men's sports typically have more fan attendance, so do the women athletes get paid less because they bring in less revenue to the school (gender inequalities). Again- offer a plan and I will listen (to general anyone responding). You know many won't play in the pros yet saying those that are more concerned with money than an education should go pro ignores 99%+ of student athletes who make their schools and conferences money. There's always going to be the top 0.01% or whatever that are the Lebron's and Bryce Harper's of the world who teams are salivating over when they're still in high school but they're few and far between. As far as allowing HS players to go straight to the pros the NFL requires players to be 3 years out of high school partly for their own safety because they aren't done developing and the speed difference between college and the NFL is a big jump. The NBA has the G league which is basically their version of the minors where AAAA (i.e. baseball players who may get called up here and there but generally aren't every day players) can play otherwise high school players can opt to play overseas instead of going to college and enter the draft the following year. Let's be honest they also have these requirements for financial reasons because guaranteeing millions to players who are less proven and developed is risky. Before the NFL set the rookie salary cap teams with the first few picks had to hand out massive contracts and that could be detrimental to them financially. Baseball has a minor league system and many of the top players will opt to go pro straight out of high school like the projected top two picks in next month's draft. However, a lot of players will opt for college to increase their value because the higher the pick in the MLB draft the more guaranteed money they get.
Considering the Supreme Court just ruled in favor of college athletes we're a ways off off from any kind of payment structure. I'll let the NCAA and the student athletes worry about coming up with a payment structure as they can negotiate it just like regular workers can negotiate their compensation. I have no vested interest in this debate I just don't think it's right that the NCAA, schools and conferences make money off of athletes who previously couldn't profit off of their own likeness or even accept meals. The big name schools and athletes are obviously in a completely different boat from the athletes at small schools. Certain sports obviously don't bring the same revenue but making the NCAA tourney, going to a bowl game or going far in a sports respective championship tournament could mean millions of dollars to the school and conference that team is in. Giving athletes a stipend as some suggested even at just $500 per semester would help out many student athletes who aren't able to work between school and sports.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 22, 2021 12:40:01 GMT -5
I think it all varies from school to school. My Alma mater is not a super small school. They are in a Division I, Power 5 conference. The athletic department definitely makes money from merchandise, TV rights, etc. The basketball players there do not get free shoes. They may get a few pairs but not enough to last a full season with the wear and tear on them. Yes, they get an education but they have no time for a job. There are expenses not covered. The basketball team gets home at 2am, 3am (all season long) from a road game and are expected in an 8am class. There's no time to go to a team meal. I've said give them all a stipend and be done with it. As to the calculations, I don't know how but figure it out. These schools and the NCAA, make hundreds of millions on these athletes. I think that's the easiest solution. A stipend that's decided by sport and by how much scholarship they get. So small sports that have no scholarship get $500/semester but the football players get like $4000/semester if they receive the full scholarship or $2000 if they only got a 50% scholarship. (Just picked random ass numbers to show everyone gets something.) If they receive a career ending injury their scholarship/stipend continues for the remainder of the 4 years they have left as long as they maintain the same grades needed for the sport. ie If the injury happens in Spring of your Sophomore year you'll have 2 more years of your scholarship. Each student athlete is covered under an encompassing health plan including prescriptions because I still had to pay for things beyond the visit at student health. And then something to cover any injuries that have a long lasting impact on the players. Because even college football players that never go pro are impacted by CTE and it's kind of crap that players get CTE making schools millions but are on their own when symptoms show up. And then student athletes can do some deals with their likeness on their own - probably have to add some things of what they can and cannot do (like youtube day in the life is ok, naked onlyfans is not) and have part carved out for the jerseys/posters/games in the joint pool to disburse.
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jelloshots4all
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Post by jelloshots4all on Jun 22, 2021 12:48:53 GMT -5
I'm not saying some changes couldn't be made. But a plan needs to be proposed or it's going to be really F'd up.
Most of the companies we work for make money (some millions/some billions). Yes we are paid as employees, but most companies do not pay for our college educations and room and board. Would we all like to receive more of the companies profits personally? OF COURSE.
My view may be different than others, but I also know how my University worked and how the players were taken care of. They are called "student athletes", so school should come first.
I'll wait to see if they can figure out a plan.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 22, 2021 12:49:08 GMT -5
Any athlete who gets a lot of concussions can end up with CTE. Actually any person. I've seen both basketball players and volleyball players who had so many concussions they had to leave the sport. They most likely will have CTE in their future.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2021 12:49:44 GMT -5
Obviously I know many college athletes never play in the pros. Change the rules to allow any HS athlete to go to the Pro's/minors. Easier than coming up with an equitable compensation structure. It will bring up racial issues (many of the top men's basketball player are black), how do we make it equitable? The men's sports typically have more fan attendance, so do the women athletes get paid less because they bring in less revenue to the school (gender inequalities). Again- offer a plan and I will listen (to general anyone responding). You know many won't play in the pros yet saying those that are more concerned with money than an education should go pro ignores 99%+ of student athletes who make their schools and conferences money. There's always going to be the top 0.01% or whatever that are the Lebron's and Bryce Harper's of the world who teams are salivating over when they're still in high school but they're few and far between. As far as allowing HS players to go straight to the pros the NFL requires players to be 3 years out of high school partly for their own safety because they aren't done developing and the speed difference between college and the NFL is a big jump. The NBA has the G league which is basically their version of the minors where AAAA (i.e. baseball players who may get called up here and there but generally aren't every day players) can play otherwise high school players can opt to play overseas instead of going to college and enter the draft the following year. Let's be honest they also have these requirements for financial reasons because guaranteeing millions to players who are less proven and developed is risky. Before the NFL set the rookie salary cap teams with the first few picks had to hand out massive contracts and that could be detrimental to them financially. Baseball has a minor league system and many of the top players will opt to go pro straight out of high school like the projected top two picks in next month's draft. However, a lot of players will opt for college to increase their value because the higher the pick in the MLB draft the more guaranteed money they get.
Considering the Supreme Court just ruled in favor of college athletes we're a ways off off from any kind of payment structure. I'll let the NCAA and the student athletes worry about coming up with a payment structure as they can negotiate it just like regular workers can negotiate their compensation. I have no vested interest in this debate I just don't think it's right that the NCAA, schools and conferences make money off of athletes who previously couldn't profit off of their own likeness or even accept meals. The big name schools and athletes are obviously in a completely different boat from the athletes at small schools. Certain sports obviously don't bring the same revenue but making the NCAA tourney, going to a bowl game or going far in whatever tourney a particular sport could mean millions of dollars to the school and conference that team is in.
Sorry but the bolded is an absurd assumption. Professional athletes pay people to negotiate deals. They pay unions and agents. How will that happen with eighteen year old kids who are looking to get a couple hundred dollars a month for gas and food?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 22, 2021 12:51:17 GMT -5
You know many won't play in the pros yet saying those that are more concerned with money than an education should go pro ignores 99%+ of student athletes who make their schools and conferences money. There's always going to be the top 0.01% or whatever that are the Lebron's and Bryce Harper's of the world who teams are salivating over when they're still in high school but they're few and far between. As far as allowing HS players to go straight to the pros the NFL requires players to be 3 years out of high school partly for their own safety because they aren't done developing and the speed difference between college and the NFL is a big jump. The NBA has the G league which is basically their version of the minors where AAAA (i.e. baseball players who may get called up here and there but generally aren't every day players) can play otherwise high school players can opt to play overseas instead of going to college and enter the draft the following year. Let's be honest they also have these requirements for financial reasons because guaranteeing millions to players who are less proven and developed is risky. Before the NFL set the rookie salary cap teams with the first few picks had to hand out massive contracts and that could be detrimental to them financially. Baseball has a minor league system and many of the top players will opt to go pro straight out of high school like the projected top two picks in next month's draft. However, a lot of players will opt for college to increase their value because the higher the pick in the MLB draft the more guaranteed money they get.
Considering the Supreme Court just ruled in favor of college athletes we're a ways off off from any kind of payment structure. I'll let the NCAA and the student athletes worry about coming up with a payment structure as they can negotiate it just like regular workers can negotiate their compensation. I have no vested interest in this debate I just don't think it's right that the NCAA, schools and conferences make money off of athletes who previously couldn't profit off of their own likeness or even accept meals. The big name schools and athletes are obviously in a completely different boat from the athletes at small schools. Certain sports obviously don't bring the same revenue but making the NCAA tourney, going to a bowl game or going far in whatever tourney a particular sport could mean millions of dollars to the school and conference that team is in.
Sorry but the bolded is an absurd assumption. Professional athletes pay people to negotiate deals. They pay unions and agents. How will that happen with eighteen year old kids who are looking to get a couple hundred dollars a month for gas and food? I imagine they'd form a union of sorts and have lawyers or some kind of professionals representing them. I don't envision thousands of 18 year olds trying to negotiate their own deals.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 22, 2021 13:01:53 GMT -5
I'm not saying some changes couldn't be made. But a plan needs to be proposed or it's going to be really F'd up. Most of the companies we work for make money (some millions/some billions). Yes we are paid as employees, but most companies do not pay for our college educations and room and board. Would we all like to receive more of the companies profits personally? OF COURSE. My view may be different than others, but I also know how my University worked and how the players were taken care of. They are called "student athletes", so school should come first. I'll wait to see if they can figure out a plan. I don't disagree but you can't get to the point of proposing or discussing compensation until the student athletes are legally entitled to it. It will be an absolute cluster**** given how much money is involved but it's something most would agree they were headed for before this ruling based on smaller rulings. Your university very well may have taken care of it's student athletes but there's many stories where student athletes weren't taken care of and were discarded after suffering injuries. School should come first but plenty of stories out there say that isn't always the case. 'Schooled: The Price of College Sports' and 'The Business of Amateurs' are just two of many documentaries that discuss how student athletes have been taken advantage of.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2021 13:01:59 GMT -5
Sorry but the bolded is an absurd assumption. Professional athletes pay people to negotiate deals. They pay unions and agents. How will that happen with eighteen year old kids who are looking to get a couple hundred dollars a month for gas and food? I imagine they'd form a union of sorts and have lawyers or some kind of professionals representing them. I don't envision thousands of 18 year olds trying to negotiate their own deals. I don't envision thousands of 18 year olds coming together to certify a union empowered to negotiate for them.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 22, 2021 13:13:43 GMT -5
While that wasn't like to pass I'm guessing with the Supreme Court ruling that bill or the next version of it will only gain more steam. The NCAA made more enemies over the last few decades than they needed to because of how they treated student athletes and now it seems like the chickens have come home to roost.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2021 14:15:28 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 22, 2021 17:56:52 GMT -5
Interesting.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2021 18:03:12 GMT -5
Interesting. I know out West here we have "club teams" that are made up of more seriously focused athletes (or parents). I hear they have weekend tournaments involving major travel time.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 22, 2021 19:11:08 GMT -5
And money. The goal is scholarships. That's the goal they are trying to reach and not all of those kids are going to get scholarships. Yes, sometimes it's the parents. A friend of mine has a daughter who wants to be a cheerleader at Alabama. The parents have had her in gymnastics and cheer camps since she was quite young. Mom finally said the other do. All of this money will not have been worth it if she doesn't get a cheerleading scholarship.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Jun 23, 2021 7:37:46 GMT -5
And money. The goal is scholarships. That's the goal they are trying to reach and not all of those kids are going to get scholarships. Yes, sometimes it's the parents. A friend of mine has a daughter who wants to be a cheerleader at Alabama. The parents have had her in gymnastics and cheer camps since she was quite young. Mom finally said the other do. All of this money will not have been worth it if she doesn't get a cheerleading scholarship.All of that money would have been better spent in a 529...
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 23, 2021 7:54:09 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 23, 2021 8:45:08 GMT -5
And money. The goal is scholarships. That's the goal they are trying to reach and not all of those kids are going to get scholarships. Yes, sometimes it's the parents. A friend of mine has a daughter who wants to be a cheerleader at Alabama. The parents have had her in gymnastics and cheer camps since she was quite young. Mom finally said the other do. All of this money will not have been worth it if she doesn't get a cheerleading scholarship.All of that money would have been better spent in a 529... While the daughter did what with her time? She has a goal to be a college cheerleader. She is working to make that goal happen. Her parents are providing support to help her reach her goal. Even if she doesn't achieve her goal, is nothing gained by the effort? There are individuals who have a goal to have a career in a field that requires them to graduate from college who see receiving an athletic (or cheerleading) scholarship as a means to that end. But there are others who have an end goal to run out of a tunnel onto a field or court in a uniform and compete (or cheer) at a collegiate level and potentially beyond.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Jun 23, 2021 9:56:19 GMT -5
All of that money would have been better spent in a 529... While the daughter did what with her time? She has a goal to be a college cheerleader. She is working to make that goal happen. Her parents are providing support to help her reach her goal. Even if she doesn't achieve her goal, is nothing gained by the effort? There are individuals who have a goal to have a career in a field that requires them to graduate from college who see receiving an athletic (or cheerleading) scholarship as a means to that end. But there are others who have an end goal to run out of a tunnel onto a field or court in a uniform and compete (or cheer) at a collegiate level and potentially beyond. I have no objections to parents supporting their child's dreams. I do think it's foolish when parents spend a huge amount of money on training, travelling, camps, etc. with the singular goal of getting college 'paid for'. If the family in question can afford all the costs of competitive cheerleading and are still saving for college, then that's great! But, if it's an either or situation and the girl doesn't get selected to join the team and receive a scholarship then how are they going to pay? I just did a quick google and it seems that the NCAA doesn't recognize cheerleading as a sport so there are not many scholarships available: scholarshipowl.com/blog/apply-for-scholarships/can-you-get-a-scholarship-for-cheerleading/ETA: Alabama does offer cheerleading scholarships but the amount varies every year.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 23, 2021 13:16:24 GMT -5
The kid is also a competitive swimmer and has won several state championships in her age group in Alabama.
I know most universities do not give full scholarships for either swimming or cheerleading.
Yes, it's kept her busy, but she's had several cheerleading related injuries. One required surgery so add that expense to what they have spent in the quest for a scholarship.
It sounds like she is one of the best cheerleaders at her high school (according to parents) but there will be a lot more competition in college for a spot.
ETA: Doesn't appear very many cheerleaders get full rides.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 1, 2021 11:49:37 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 1, 2021 11:59:25 GMT -5
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 1, 2021 13:42:20 GMT -5
An Iowa men's basketball player's website went life last night at 12:01 AM. His shoe sold out in minutes.
He's doing his first appearance for $$$ today.
He had said he would not return to college hoops for his 6th year (one injury year and the extra year of eligibility for covid), without the NIL.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 1, 2021 14:06:11 GMT -5
An Iowa men's basketball player's website went life last night at 12:01 AM. His shoe sold out in minutes. He's doing his first appearance for $$$ today. He had said he would not return to college hoops for his 6th year (one injury year and the extra year of eligibility for covid), without the NIL. Jordan Bohannon? I found the below linked article and this quote stood out along with the general content of the article. Academically, Bohannon must finish the semester strong to be eligible next season. link There is just a little too much ego there for me to be impressed. I support student-athletes not being exploited while in college but this guy seems to be all about himself.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 1, 2021 15:03:44 GMT -5
Can't have the good apples without the bad. But no reason to cut down the whole tree.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 1, 2021 15:26:32 GMT -5
Can't have the good apples without the bad. But no reason to cut down the whole tree. No reason to buy the bad ones either.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 1, 2021 15:29:24 GMT -5
Can't have the good apples without the bad. But no reason to cut down the whole tree. No reason to buy the bad ones either. True. Some will, usually most don't.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 1, 2021 15:37:59 GMT -5
No reason to buy the bad ones either. True. Some will, usually most don't. I can see this issue becoming a factor in college recruitment. "Does this 17 year old top recruit have the maturity to be a team player in an environment where self promotion (and stat padding?) could mean big bucks" will be a question they will have to consider.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 1, 2021 16:24:49 GMT -5
True. Some will, usually most don't. I can see this issue becoming a factor in college recruitment. "Does this 17 year old top recruit have the maturity to be a team player in an environment where self promotion (and stat padding?) could mean big bucks" will be a question they will have to consider. But it's not as if this is introducing the idea of self promotion and stat padding to team games - it just had a longer end game to it monetarily before now.
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