Fauci - I’m sick of this

[happyhoix]

So we have all these GOPers pushing the idea that Fauci was somehow involved in creating the Covid virus - and/or that he was responsible for covering up the fact that this virus was created in a lab in Wuhan. Some are somehow claiming Fauci has ‘blood on his hands’ and is responsible for crashing the economy and killing people and should be fired, then prosecuted. 

www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/republicans-anthony-fauci-covid-19

The GOP is pushing the idea that Trump was attempting to do a good job fighting the virus, but got bad advice from his healthcare advisors, especially Fauci. thehill.com/policy/healthcare/557468-gops-attacks-on-fauci-at-center-of-pandemic-message  

Fauci is a public servant who failed to fall in line behind Trump’s bullshit ‘injecting bleach’ or ‘masks don’t work” comments. He does not deserve all the bullshittery that’s been directed his way. He’s old enough, when this virus started raising it’s ugly head, he could have easily quit his job, gone home and spent his early retirement quarantining. But he stuck with it, even when having to deal with the anti-science crap from the far right. Even when Trump tried to prevent him from speaking. He ought to get a fucking medal, not Tucker Carlson screaming for him to get fired. 

They need to shut the fuck up. 

[djAdvocate]

he should start a defamation suit.

[Opti]

Jun 10, 2021 17:45:59 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

So we have all these GOPers pushing the idea that Fauci was somehow involved in creating the Covid virus - and/or that he was responsible for covering up the fact that this virus was created in a lab in Wuhan. Some are somehow claiming Fauci has ‘blood on his hands’ and is responsible for crashing the economy and killing people and should be fired, then prosecuted. 

www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/republicans-anthony-fauci-covid-19

The GOP is pushing the idea that Trump was attempting to do a good job fighting the virus, but got bad advice from his healthcare advisors, especially Fauci. thehill.com/policy/healthcare/557468-gops-attacks-on-fauci-at-center-of-pandemic-message  

Fauci is a public servant who failed to fall in line behind Trump’s bullshit ‘injecting bleach’ or ‘masks don’t work” comments. He does not deserve all the bullshittery that’s been directed his way. He’s old enough, when this virus started raising it’s ugly head, he could have easily quit his job, gone home and spent his early retirement quarantining. But he stuck with it, even when having to deal with the anti-science crap from the far right. Even when Trump tried to prevent him from speaking. He ought to get a fucking medal, not Tucker Carlson screaming for him to get fired. 

They need to shut the fuck up. 

What the GOP is good at, and was good at before Trump, is making up narratives and selling false stories. No reason to expect that to change as they are blamers and victims not real bootstrappers who are willing to acknowledge they and Trump totally F'ed up the pandemic response. 

We can create narratives as well. I just prefer they are true or mostly true. Many GOP voters like simple phrases and ideas. We need to sell them something more compelling than just Trump the boss sucked so bad as a President and a businessman that he needs to blame Fauci for his mistakes. He was in charge. He should have fired his own ass, but his ego was too big. GOP lawmakers don't really want  small govt at the federal level. Part of the reason they didn't stand up to Trump is they wanted to keep their cushy well paid lawmaking jobs more than they wanted to serve America. They weren't willing to quit and find a new job, but by golly, they will demonize any wage slave who would not do that.

[Opti]

How about this?

Trump pandemic response?

You're fired! (the American people 2020)


Other talking point-

Fauci pandemic response?

Thank you, please continue to serve the American people
(Biden and Biden voters)

[Tennesseer]

Fauci recommended injecting bleach and Lysol?

[happyhoix]

Jun 10, 2021 19:19:42 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Fauci recommended injecting bleach and Lysol?

Apparently Trump only recommended that because he had such crappy advisors - and now we need to hold those crappy advisors accountable for misleading the poor president and allowing so many people to die. 

Seriously, I can’t handle this level of bullshit. And not a one of them seem to have an ounce of shame. 

[justme]

Well there's now a small study that's saying the hydro whatever and az whatever actually work. So the thought is Fauci killed more people than needed. I pointed out that at the time the studies showed the opposite so of course doctors aren't going to administer something when the only studies showed it didn't work. And even now with two conflicting small scale studies who do you believe?

[djAdvocate]

Jun 11, 2021 0:01:54 GMT -5 justme said:

Well there's now a small study that's saying the hydro whatever and az whatever actually work. So the thought is Fauci killed more people than needed. I pointed out that at the time the studies showed the opposite so of course doctors aren't going to administer something when the only studies showed it didn't work. And even now with two conflicting small scale studies who do you believe?

small studies are only the first step.

after that step, there are clinical trials.

whenever HCQ has been taken to the next step, it contradicted earlier results.

and let's be clear why. HCQ is not an anti-viral.

it honestly doesn't make any sense that it would work as one.

it is an anti-bacterial.

it would be like saying that carrot juice makes a great diesel fuel,

because my cousin put it in his Benzo and it worked great.

sure he did.

[justme]

Jun 11, 2021 0:06:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 11, 2021 0:01:54 GMT -5 justme said:

Well there's now a small study that's saying the hydro whatever and az whatever actually work. So the thought is Fauci killed more people than needed. I pointed out that at the time the studies showed the opposite so of course doctors aren't going to administer something when the only studies showed it didn't work. And even now with two conflicting small scale studies who do you believe?

small studies are only the first step.

after that step, there are clinical trials.

whenever HCQ has been taken to the next step, it contradicted earlier results.

and let's be clear why. HCQ is not an anti-viral.

it honestly doesn't make any sense that it would work as one.

it is an anti-bacterial.

it would be like saying that carrot juice makes a great diesel fuel,

because my cousin put it in his Benzo and it worked great.

sure he did.

I'm not disagreeing. I just know it was recently published which has sparked the trump was right how dare fauci stop doctors from using it etc etc. 

I'm fully behind good doctors aren't going to go against studies, and studies at the time said it didn't work. Beyond the logical sense that a damn antibiotic wouldn't help against a virus. But I got met with "but if they were on death's door and it could have helped but doctor's stopped it" to which I said back "and if they administered it against the first studies only for those studies to be proven right that it did make things worse?" would families not have sued doctors for all their worth?

Like god fucking damn can we not string up doctors that were doing the best they could have? They can't see the future and can only go on what they have. And this current small scale study sure as hell isn't enough to say they were wrong. 

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 11, 2021 0:06:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 11, 2021 0:01:54 GMT -5 justme said:

Well there's now a small study that's saying the hydro whatever and az whatever actually work. So the thought is Fauci killed more people than needed. I pointed out that at the time the studies showed the opposite so of course doctors aren't going to administer something when the only studies showed it didn't work. And even now with two conflicting small scale studies who do you believe?

small studies are only the first step.

after that step, there are clinical trials.

whenever HCQ has been taken to the next step, it contradicted earlier results.

and let's be clear why. HCQ is not an anti-viral.

it honestly doesn't make any sense that it would work as one.

it is an anti-bacterial.

it would be like saying that carrot juice makes a great diesel fuel,

because my cousin put it in his Benzo and it worked great.

sure he did.

Agree with most of this. Slight correction- hydroxychroloquine is an anti-inflammatory and anti-parasitic agent. It is not a real antibiotic. Azithromycin is an antibiotic. Neither work. Nobody going to fund a real study in these therapies. Maybe trump should use some of his fortune to fund a big study to prove it works.

Nobody forced doctors not to prescribe this nonsense. We are fully capable of observing the lack of effectiveness of these treatments. The onus, as it should have been from the very beginning, is on those who think this works to do a well done study to prove it. Until that is done, the default is it doesn’t work

[Spellbound454]

UK researchers did a study early on and found that it didn't work ...... I'm inclined to believe them.


Lots of things have changed since those early days when we didn't know what we were dealing with.

Hindsight from the armchair know-it-alls ...........is of no use to anybody.

I'm quite sure people behaved with integrity and within the parameters of what was available at the time.

[happyhoix]

The anti science crowd gets all excited when medical advice changes. Like when Fauci said masks were not effective early on, then later said they were. Why wasn’t he right the first time! He lied to us! He’s incompetent! He’s conspiring with the Chinese!

They have no clue how science works. If we stuck with our first findings in medicine we would still have plague doctors (although the did have cool masks).

My only consolation is these are the same people who aren’t getting vaccinated because it’s the mark of the devil/ a tracking device/makes you magnetic. When the new Delta variant gets loose in the US and areas without many vaccinated people see a new surge, I’ll look forward to offering thoughts and prayers, since science didn’t cut it for them.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 10, 2021 19:59:31 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 10, 2021 19:19:42 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Fauci recommended injecting bleach and Lysol?

Apparently Trump only recommended that because he had such crappy advisors - and now we need to hold those crappy advisors accountable for misleading the poor president and allowing so many people to die. 

Seriously, I can’t handle this level of bullshit. And not a one of them seem to have an ounce of shame. 

Not quite.

I saw this news conference.  A scientist at the podium was describing what killed virus on surfaces in the lab....bleach and Lysol.  This was back when scientists thought that fomites were more important in transmission of the virus than person to person. As the scientist was talking about sanitation of surfaces, you could see the mental leap tRump made from sanitizing surfaces to using the same products to rid a human body of the virus.  Only problem was he was doing it on live TV. It was appalling to watch.  I think Birk and Fauci wanted to crawl under their respective chairs in embarrassment for him. 

This is one case where I think his advisors had nothing to do with tRump’s conclusions.  

[justme]

Jun 11, 2021 2:55:32 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jun 11, 2021 0:06:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

small studies are only the first step.

after that step, there are clinical trials.

whenever HCQ has been taken to the next step, it contradicted earlier results.

and let's be clear why. HCQ is not an anti-viral.

it honestly doesn't make any sense that it would work as one.

it is an anti-bacterial.

it would be like saying that carrot juice makes a great diesel fuel,

because my cousin put it in his Benzo and it worked great.

sure he did.

Agree with most of this. Slight correction- hydroxychroloquine is an anti-inflammatory and anti-parasitic agent. It is not a real antibiotic. Azithromycin is an antibiotic. Neither work. Nobody going to fund a real study in these therapies. Maybe trump should use some of his fortune to fund a big study to prove it works.

Nobody forced doctors not to prescribe this nonsense. We are fully capable of observing the lack of effectiveness of these treatments. The onus, as it should have been from the very beginning, is on those who think this works to do a well done study to prove it. Until that is done, the default is it doesn’t work

The ones clinging to this new study that says it like doubled the survival rate on ventilated patients are quite emphatic that doctors were stopped from prescribing it and that doctors should have been able to decide to with their patients whether to rx it or not. And this new study shows that they killed lots of people because look at the higher survival rate. 

I didn't look into this new study, was only like 200 people though. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 11, 2021 0:06:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 11, 2021 0:01:54 GMT -5 justme said:

Well there's now a small study that's saying the hydro whatever and az whatever actually work. So the thought is Fauci killed more people than needed. I pointed out that at the time the studies showed the opposite so of course doctors aren't going to administer something when the only studies showed it didn't work. And even now with two conflicting small scale studies who do you believe?

small studies are only the first step.

after that step, there are clinical trials.

whenever HCQ has been taken to the next step, it contradicted earlier results.

and let's be clear why. HCQ is not an anti-viral.

it honestly doesn't make any sense that it would work as one.

it is an anti-bacterial.

it would be like saying that carrot juice makes a great diesel fuel,

because my cousin put it in his Benzo and it worked great.

sure he did.

Actually, there IS some biological plausibility of hydroxychloroquine working.  HQ is an immunosuppressant, commonly used in rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.  Many of covid deaths are caused by a cytokines storm, where the person’s immune system runs amok.  So the thought was that it can prevent the cytokines storms that causes the body to attack itself.  The azithromycin was prescribed to prevent secondary bacterial infections, which are common after viral infections because viral infections can frequently cause secondary bacterial infections.  

So in reality, it DOES make sense.  It just didn't work and HQ has some side effects that apparently are exacerbated in covid that can be life threatening.  

When this first came out, we realized that we had a stash of it.  TD was taking it for some sort of AI disease he had several years ago.  It worked for him, he wound up in a remission and stopped taking the drug and has not had a flare since then.  His rheumatologist has since released him and his blood work is back to normal.  

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 11, 2021 10:32:00 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jun 11, 2021 0:06:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

small studies are only the first step.

after that step, there are clinical trials.

whenever HCQ has been taken to the next step, it contradicted earlier results.

and let's be clear why. HCQ is not an anti-viral.

it honestly doesn't make any sense that it would work as one.

it is an anti-bacterial.

it would be like saying that carrot juice makes a great diesel fuel,

because my cousin put it in his Benzo and it worked great.

sure he did.

Actually, there IS some biological plausibility of hydroxychloroquine working.  HQ is an immunosuppressant, commonly used in rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.  Many of covid deaths are caused by a cytokines storm, where the person’s immune system runs amok.  So the thought was that it can prevent the cytokines storms that causes the body to attack itself.  The azithromycin was prescribed to prevent secondary bacterial infections, which are common after viral infections because viral infections can frequently cause secondary bacterial infections.  

So in reality, it DOES make sense.  It just didn't work and HQ has some side effects that apparently are exacerbated in covid that can be life threatening.  

When this first came out, we realized that we had a stash of it.  TD was taking it for some sort of AI disease he had several years ago.  It worked for him, he wound up in a remission and stopped taking the drug and has not had a flare since then.  His rheumatologist has since released him and his blood work is back to normal.  

We don’t prescribe antibiotics to prevent secondary infections. Macrolide antibiotics such as azithromycin have immunosuppressive properties. Hydroxychroloquine was prescribed because there were claims it had antiviral effects in vitro against the virus. It never made any real sense to use this treatment early on, and it still doesn’t

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 11, 2021 10:29:58 GMT -5 justme said:

Jun 11, 2021 2:55:32 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Agree with most of this. Slight correction- hydroxychroloquine is an anti-inflammatory and anti-parasitic agent. It is not a real antibiotic. Azithromycin is an antibiotic. Neither work. Nobody going to fund a real study in these therapies. Maybe trump should use some of his fortune to fund a big study to prove it works.

Nobody forced doctors not to prescribe this nonsense. We are fully capable of observing the lack of effectiveness of these treatments. The onus, as it should have been from the very beginning, is on those who think this works to do a well done study to prove it. Until that is done, the default is it doesn’t work

The ones clinging to this new study that says it like doubled the survival rate on ventilated patients are quite emphatic that doctors were stopped from prescribing it and that doctors should have been able to decide to with their patients whether to rx it or not. And this new study shows that they killed lots of people because look at the higher survival rate. 

I didn't look into this new study, was only like 200 people though. 

The funny thing about people with these beliefs is that when they are the ones who are sick they all of a sudden no longer are insisting that they get these treatments. And good luck getting them anywhere. This is just another thing that has become political, but that has no bearing on our treatment decisions. If standing someone on their head lead to a better outcome, that is what we would do. This ridiculous conspiracy thinking and anti science outlook is the way we lose our economic advantage, but hey, at least those people will get what they want

[djAdvocate]

Jun 11, 2021 10:32:00 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jun 11, 2021 0:06:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

small studies are only the first step.

after that step, there are clinical trials.

whenever HCQ has been taken to the next step, it contradicted earlier results.

and let's be clear why. HCQ is not an anti-viral.

it honestly doesn't make any sense that it would work as one.

it is an anti-bacterial.

it would be like saying that carrot juice makes a great diesel fuel,

because my cousin put it in his Benzo and it worked great.

sure he did.

Actually, there IS some biological plausibility of hydroxychloroquine working.  HQ is an immunosuppressant, commonly used in rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.  Many of covid deaths are caused by a cytokines storm, where the person’s immune system runs amok.  So the thought was that it can prevent the cytokines storms that causes the body to attack itself.  The azithromycin was prescribed to prevent secondary bacterial infections, which are common after viral infections because viral infections can frequently cause secondary bacterial infections.  

So in reality, it DOES make sense.  It just didn't work and HQ has some side effects that apparently are exacerbated in covid that can be life threatening.  

When this first came out, we realized that we had a stash of it.  TD was taking it for some sort of AI disease he had several years ago.  It worked for him, he wound up in a remission and stopped taking the drug and has not had a flare since then.  His rheumatologist has since released him and his blood work is back to normal.  

it makes SOME sense as a treatment for inflammation.

it makes NO sense as a cure.

none.

[billisonboard]

I am just impressed how well he played the long game. Positioning himself in 1984 as head of NIAID. Working all those years on AIDS relief. Getting a former President to give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States. Biding his time until he was in his late seventies. Then


Pure evil genius.

Just in case someone misses it

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 11, 2021 13:00:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 11, 2021 10:32:00 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Actually, there IS some biological plausibility of hydroxychloroquine working.  HQ is an immunosuppressant, commonly used in rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.  Many of covid deaths are caused by a cytokines storm, where the person’s immune system runs amok.  So the thought was that it can prevent the cytokines storms that causes the body to attack itself.  The azithromycin was prescribed to prevent secondary bacterial infections, which are common after viral infections because viral infections can frequently cause secondary bacterial infections.  

So in reality, it DOES make sense.  It just didn't work and HQ has some side effects that apparently are exacerbated in covid that can be life threatening.  

When this first came out, we realized that we had a stash of it.  TD was taking it for some sort of AI disease he had several years ago.  It worked for him, he wound up in a remission and stopped taking the drug and has not had a flare since then.  His rheumatologist has since released him and his blood work is back to normal.  

it makes SOME sense as a treatment for inflammation.

it makes NO sense as a cure.

none.

You forget at this time that people were grasping at straws.  They know a hell of a lot more now as to how to treat covid than they did in March 2020.  It took about 6 months to determine that it didn’t help, but trying to do a clinical trial in the middle of a pandemic isn’t exactly the easiest time to do the testing as the current line of thought was anything is better than nothing. 

All throughout science, things get tried that make no sense but work.  40 years ago, no one would ever have given an antibiotic for an ulcer either.  

[djAdvocate]

Jun 11, 2021 13:30:00 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jun 11, 2021 13:00:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it makes SOME sense as a treatment for inflammation.

it makes NO sense as a cure.

none.

You forget at this time that people were grasping at straws.  They know a hell of a lot more now as to how to treat covid than they did in March 2020.  It took about 6 months to determine that it didn’t help, but trying to do a clinical trial in the middle of a pandemic isn’t exactly the easiest time to do the testing as the current line of thought was anything is better than nothing. 

All throughout science, things get tried that make no sense but work.  40 years ago, no one would ever have given an antibiotic for an ulcer either.  

i won't debate our ignorance.  you are right.  there is a LOT we didn't know.

but we DID know the difference between a virus and bacteria.

[happyhoix]

Jun 11, 2021 10:20:19 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jun 10, 2021 19:59:31 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Apparently Trump only recommended that because he had such crappy advisors - and now we need to hold those crappy advisors accountable for misleading the poor president and allowing so many people to die. 

Seriously, I can’t handle this level of bullshit. And not a one of them seem to have an ounce of shame. 

Not quite.

I saw this news conference.  A scientist at the podium was describing what killed virus on surfaces in the lab....bleach and Lysol.  This was back when scientists thought that fomites were more important in transmission of the virus than person to person. As the scientist was talking about sanitation of surfaces, you could see the mental leap tRump made from sanitizing surfaces to using the same products to rid a human body of the virus.  Only problem was he was doing it on live TV. It was appalling to watch.  I think Birk and Fauci wanted to crawl under their respective chairs in embarrassment for him. 

This is one case where I think his advisors had nothing to do with tRump’s conclusions.  

I think in most cases Trump ignored his advisors. Then things go South and he starts looking for someone to blame.

[Tennesseer]

I followed Fauci's advice:  wear a mask when around people and get the vaccine.  That is all I needed and didn't get sick.