Another shooting

[Ava]

When does this end?



www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/transit-employees-among-9-dead-in-shooting-at-san-jose-rail-yard/ar-AAKpaqD?li=BBnb7Kz

[pulmonarymd]

It doesn’t

[Tiny]

It doesn't.

I'm testing this logic out: It's every American's right to be able to own guns and enjoy the "feel good" that someday they could if they really wanted to -- kill someone who deserves it. Doesn't matter the consequences - the "feel good" is worth it. 

I mentally wind  up back at Ursula Le Guin's   "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas"     

I'm guessing gun ownership "feel good" is worth the price of  deaths of others (weather they deserve it or not) for most people. 

[Ava]

I don't know.
I come from a culture where guns were a no-no. Not available to the general population.

I've never held a gun, don't know how to use it (don't want to learn either) and I don't think I'll ever seen one up close.

What's happening in this country is horrific... and we're going to do nothing?
There has to be a way to stop the madness.

[pulmonarymd]

There needs to be a willingness to solve the problem. Right now, we cannot even agree there is a problem. Therefore, nothing will be done. Just like the last time. Just like the next time

[Tiny]

May 26, 2021 14:23:27 GMT -5 Ava said:

I don't know.
I come from a culture where guns were a no-no. Not available to the general population.

I've never held a gun, don't know how to use it (don't want to learn either) and I don't think I'll ever seen one up close.

What's happening in this country is horrific... and we're going to do nothing?
There has to be a way to stop the madness.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here:    It isn't "horrific" and it isn't "madness"  - if it was -- something would be done about.  People have the right to the "feel good" of owning any kind of gun they want in whatever quantities they want  - even if it means other people may have to pay the price for that "feel good"  thru their own death or the death of a loved one.     


Americans are totally OK with the "cost" and consequences  associated with anyone and everyone being able to own as may/any kind of gun they want.  
That's just the way it is.   An Individual's "feel good" is worth more than someone else's "bad outcome".   It's enough to offer Thoughts and Prayers to those who loose loved ones. 

[Tiny]

May 26, 2021 15:51:58 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 15:03:55 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here:    It isn't "horrific" and it isn't "madness"  - if it was -- something would be done about.  People have the right to the "feel good" of owning any kind of gun they want in whatever quantities they want  - even if it means other people may have to pay the price for that "feel good"  thru their own death or the death of a loved one.     


Americans are totally OK with the "cost" and consequences  associated with anyone and everyone being able to own as may/any kind of gun they want.  
That's just the way it is.   An Individual's "feel good" is worth more than someone else's "bad outcome".   It's enough to offer Thoughts and Prayers to those who loose loved ones. 

Yet I have no feelings at all about owning guns, including feeling good about it. 

Just a tool.  

In other threads women seem to feel bad about rape, part of disarmament ? 

Does a tool have (or need) a purpose?   If a gun is a tool what is it's purpose? 

[Tennesseer]

According to a few, you take the chance of being murdered if you leave your home.   

You take the chance of being murdered if you leave your home to  go to church, bible study, a nightclub, an outdoor concert, a movie, an elementary school, a middle school, a high school, college, etc.

[happyhoix]

May 26, 2021 16:07:18 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 16:01:39 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

According to a few, you take the chance of being murdered if you leave your home.   

You take the chance of being murdered if you leave your home to  go to church, bible study, a nightclub, an outdoor concert, a movie, an elementary school, a middle school, a high school, college, etc.

According to the law of odds, you have a chance of being killed at anytime/anywhere.

According to statistics, if you live in a home with a gun, you’re much more likely to get killed with a gun.

Gun advocates like to raise the bogey man of strangers killing you on the street, but leave out all the suicides and crimes of passion that kill people at home.

The price you pay for being able to carry a gun around outside, where bad guys will shoot anyone who can’t defend themselves with weapons.

[Opti]

May 26, 2021 15:03:55 GMT -5 Tiny said:

May 26, 2021 14:23:27 GMT -5 Ava said:

I don't know.
I come from a culture where guns were a no-no. Not available to the general population.

I've never held a gun, don't know how to use it (don't want to learn either) and I don't think I'll ever seen one up close.

What's happening in this country is horrific... and we're going to do nothing?
There has to be a way to stop the madness.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here:    It isn't "horrific" and it isn't "madness"  - if it was -- something would be done about.  People have the right to the "feel good" of owning any kind of gun they want in whatever quantities they want  - even if it means other people may have to pay the price for that "feel good"  thru their own death or the death of a loved one.     


Americans are totally OK with the "cost" and consequences  associated with anyone and everyone being able to own as may/any kind of gun they want.  
That's just the way it is.   An Individual's "feel good" is worth more than someone else's "bad outcome".   It's enough to offer Thoughts and Prayers to those who loose loved ones. 

I believe this is the same reason there is such a push to ban abortion. 

[pulmonarymd]

May 26, 2021 15:53:44 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 14:53:30 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

There needs to be a willingness to solve the problem. Right now, we cannot even agree there is a problem. Therefore, nothing will be done. Just like the last time. Just like the next time

Do you know what the problem is ?

Maybe we should let the cdc study shootings and gun deaths. Then we could have a better idea about what we could do. You know, like Congress could actually pass something and fund studies so we can then see what might bring down the carnage, instead of offering our hopes and prayers

[Tennesseer]

Someone up in the heavens doesn't seem to be interested in us just offering thoughts and prayers after each mass shooting.

Maybe Hunter S. Thompson was right.

“Pray to God, but row away from the rocks.”

[pulmonarymd]

May 26, 2021 16:43:33 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 16:33:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Maybe we should let the cdc study shootings and gun deaths. Then we could have a better idea about what we could do. You know, like Congress could actually pass something and fund studies so we can then see what might bring down the carnage, instead of offering our hopes and prayers

They way you posted, I thought you had a clue. 

No, unlike you, I actually realize there are subjects that I am not an expert on. Gun violence, for example. But instead of throwing up our hands, offering thoughts and prayers, acting as if there is nothing to do, then wait for the next one, I offered something that could go be us some answers.

These events are not inevitable. They happen at a much lower frequency elsewhere. So, there does appear to be something we could do to decrease their frequency and save lives

[kadee79]

And don't forget...."it's too soon"...to discuss any actual solutions to the gun problem(s)!  And we are gun owners...with multiple guns...both long guns & hand guns. 

ETA...And get rid of the stigma attached to mental health care!  

[Miss Tequila]

38,000 were killed in car accidents in 2019, while 14,000 were murdered by guns. A good portion of those murders were gang related and they will get guns no matter what legislation is passed.

I get it. It’s scary to think one lunatic can get a gun and take out 20-30 people. But I have a much greater chance of being killed in a car accident than I do of being murdered by someone with a gun

[pulmonarymd]

Yes, but due to studies, cars have had a number of safety features that make them safer. There are ways to decrease ease the number of gun deaths, which are more like 30k. Finding ways to decrease that number should be a goal we can all agree on. And we can work on both problems at the same time, decreasing the number of premature deaths

[Tiny]

May 26, 2021 16:01:42 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 15:58:53 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Does a tool have (or need) a purpose?   If a gun is a tool what is it's purpose? 

To throw a projectile at high velocity.

ah! so guns have the same purpose as slingshots, bows, cannons, tanks, mortar launchers,  probably cat and dog vomit too (and maybe baby vomit),  and particle accelerators.   Good to know. 

[billisonboard]

May 26, 2021 18:37:39 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 17:44:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Yes, but due to studies, cars have had a number of safety features that make them safer. There are ways to decrease ease the number of gun deaths, which are more like 30k. Finding ways to decrease that number should be a goal we can all agree on. And we can work on both problems at the same time, decreasing the number of premature deaths

62% of gun deaths are suicide in the U.S.

How will safety features help ?
 

Developing technology that would require fingerprint identification to unlock a gun before it is fired could cut down on younger persons using a parent's weapon.

[happyhoix]

May 26, 2021 16:42:29 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 16:23:32 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

According to statistics, if you live in a home with a gun, you’re much more likely to get killed with a gun.

Gun advocates like to raise the bogey man of strangers killing you on the street, but leave out all the suicides and crimes of passion that kill people at home.

The price you pay for being able to carry a gun around outside, where bad guys will shoot anyone who can’t defend themselves with weapons.

I understand that works exactly the same for boats, cars and swimming pools, to name a few more. 

Statistically of course, as anytime/anywhere.

Each of those things are layered with reams of legal requirements on owning or operating them, and you can get sued to bankruptcy if some dies due to your failure to secure, monitor or operate them in a legal way. Never heard a single person trying to make it legal to drive drunk, operate a boat without life vests, or leave your swimming pool in fenced.

The NRA, on the other hand, won’t even accept a law that would require homes with kids to have trigger locks on their guns so little Jr doesn’t kill him sled or someone else in the family. We don’t dare! The constitution doesn’t require trigger locks!

[happyhoix]

May 26, 2021 18:37:39 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 17:44:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Yes, but due to studies, cars have had a number of safety features that make them safer. There are ways to decrease ease the number of gun deaths, which are more like 30k. Finding ways to decrease that number should be a goal we can all agree on. And we can work on both problems at the same time, decreasing the number of premature deaths

62% of gun deaths are suicide in the U.S.

How will safety features help ?
 

Canada has a suicide rate of 10 per 100,000. The US rate is 14.5 per 100,000. Sure, maybe the US had more suicides because we don’t have good affordable healthcare like they do, but I think it has more to do with how easy it is for us to get a gun. Suicide by gun is the favorite way for males. Unless they don’t have easy access to a weapon.

[Miss Tequila]

May 26, 2021 17:44:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Yes, but due to studies, cars have had a number of safety features that make them safer. There are ways to decrease ease the number of gun deaths, which are more like 30k. Finding ways to decrease that number should be a goal we can all agree on. And we can work on both problems at the same time, decreasing the number of premature deaths

I said gun homicides, not gun deaths. Suicide by gun does not put the rest of us risk

ETA: and I’m all for reducing any kind of homicide. Maybe we should make it illegal to kill someone else...

[pulmonarymd]

May 26, 2021 19:46:43 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 26, 2021 17:44:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Yes, but due to studies, cars have had a number of safety features that make them safer. There are ways to decrease ease the number of gun deaths, which are more like 30k. Finding ways to decrease that number should be a goal we can all agree on. And we can work on both problems at the same time, decreasing the number of premature deaths

I said gun homicides, not gun deaths. Suicide by gun does not put the rest of us risk

I see, they don’t count. We shouldn’t do anything that might save lives. Got it

[pulmonarymd]

May 26, 2021 18:16:22 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 16:54:52 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No, unlike you, I actually realize there are subjects that I am not an expert on. Gun violence, for example. But instead of throwing up our hands, offering thoughts and prayers, acting as if there is nothing to do, then wait for the next one, I offered something that could go be us some answers.

These events are not inevitable. They happen at a much lower frequency elsewhere. So, there does appear to be something we could do to decrease their frequency and save lives

They're not ?  

They are geographically controlled ? 

Are you familiar with human behavior through history ? 


The example of your first sentence sums it up rather nicely in regards to aggressive behavior.  

I bet you're not living in that claimed elsewhere.  

They aren’t geographically controlled and you knew that. But comparing countries to see what might be different and could lead to opportunities to decrease ease gun deaths would be worthwhile. Or are you afraid of what it might show

[Miss Tequila]

May 26, 2021 19:47:43 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 26, 2021 19:46:43 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I said gun homicides, not gun deaths. Suicide by gun does not put the rest of us risk

I see, they don’t count. We shouldn’t do anything that might save lives. Got it

If a person wants to die, they are going to find a way to do it.

[billisonboard]

As people voice frustration with deaths from firearms, constant reminders that nothing can be done because of the current interpretation of "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" is helpful in building enough resentment to have the 2nd Amendment repealed or seriously reworked. 

[pulmonarymd]

May 26, 2021 20:01:57 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 26, 2021 19:47:43 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I see, they don’t count. We shouldn’t do anything that might save lives. Got it

If a person wants to die, they are going to find a way to do it.

Most people who survive a suicide attempt do not try again. In addition, most are happy they were not successful. Suicide is frequently done in the moment. Prevent that and you prevent suicide.

Women make more suicide attempts; men are more successful because they use more lethal methods. Preventing that, you will save many lives. Sure, you can’t save everyone, but that is the case with all treatments in medicine. Doesn’t mean we don’t try

[billisonboard]

May 26, 2021 20:36:22 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 20:25:49 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As people voice frustration with deaths from firearms, constant reminders that nothing can be done because of the current interpretation of "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" is helpful in building enough resentment to have the 2nd Amendment repealed or seriously reworked. 

Don't forget the Supreme Court ruling affirming the individual right to bear arms.

We couldn't even get the ERA ratified. 

I wish you the best of luck with your Second Amendment endeavors.  

We have approximately 7 million new minority gun owners this year alone, who won't be voting for any gun restrictions/candidates.




District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court ruling that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a militia


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

Yes, that is the new interpretation created 200 years after ratification I was mentioning.

[billisonboard]

May 26, 2021 20:45:19 GMT -5 @x said:

May 26, 2021 20:44:01 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Yes, that is the new interpretation created 200 years after ratification I was mentioning.

Yes, and it was the correct one. 

Just happily tooting that law abiding gun owners horn.   

Things are looking up as millions of more citizens join the ranks as new gun owners.

Just doesn't have that "building of resentment" feel these days   

Our local gun store usually has about 150 guns on display for sale, they're down to 6 as of yesterday. 

All the ammo shelves are empty and you have to get on a list to get in line to buy any. 

All the manufacturers are going full blast trying to keep up. 


Hard sell on that hate for guns isn't it ? 

The more guns out there the better.

[Deleted]

Gosh, in Texas a bill allowing open carry of handguns by anybody at all who's at least 21 is either on the governor's desk or has already been signed. No license, no background check, no nothing. Just go ahead and be ready to shoot 'em up.

I've got a swell idea. Why not just permanently lower all American flags to half mast?

[billisonboard]

May 27, 2021 7:11:52 GMT -5 @x said:

May 27, 2021 7:09:37 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Gosh, in Texas a bill allowing open carry of handguns by anybody at all who's at least 21 is either on the governor's desk or has already been signed. No license, no background check, no nothing. Just go ahead and be ready to shoot 'em up.

I've got a swell idea. Why not just permanently lower all American flags to half mast?

We've had that in our state for years. 

Crime rates have dropped. 

Flying the flag high and proud.


See happy's good explanation on the difference between constitutional rights vs privilege, just a few posts back.

Not sure which state you are in. Here are some historical numbers for violent crime by state: List of U.S. states and territories by violent crime rate. See a drop in many states. Not seeing a clear case for causation.