Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[billisonboard]

May 17, 2021 16:24:33 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

May 17, 2021 16:09:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I like to factor in the impact of former officers and enlisted having been so interdependent in war returning to civilian life. Screwing over in labor negotiations the guy who saved your life over there is tougher than when you have never had that experience.

Great point!  I’m sure that the idea of caring for the troops carried over into the business world after the war.  Doesn’t it seem like these days caring for the troops is more lip service than reality?

Not just caring for "them"; They were less "them" and more "us". Couple of facts (link)

In 2018, about 7% of U.S. adults were veterans, down from 18% in 1980, according to the Census Bureau.
...
In the current Congress, 17% of lawmakers in both houses had prior military service, down drastically from just a few decades ago.

The share of senators who are veterans reached a post-Korean War peak of 81% in 1975, while the share among House members peaked in 1967 at 75%.

[justme]

May 17, 2021 15:09:35 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

May 17, 2021 13:20:21 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I know a lot of people on the boards are anti-union, but I have to say that as soon as we all figured out we were in the midst of a pandemic and what it all meant, the unions that cover the employees at my job got on the ball, negotiating temporary agreements with my employer to try to help us.

Some of you may remember how I was so freaked out and stressed about my job at first, one day because we didn’t even have soap in one break room to wash our hands. The agreements that were made included making sure we had sanitizer, masks, gloves, etc readily available.

When I had to quarantine because of a coworker, my Union President contacted me and stayed in contact to make sure everything was done correctly, including my pay.

I’ve been at my job long enough to know that things would’ve been very different if not for the unions standing up for us IRT the pandemic.

I have mixed thoughts on unions. But if the government isn't going to force companies to make jobs reasonable, and those companies will continue to manipulate the system to get state and federal funding to cover their crappy jobs - then unions is our alternative.

Unions work great where there's a lot of people doing a very similar job. Like back when I worked at a theme park - they likely had 200 workers in the rotation for the ride I worked on between FT/PT/seasonal workers. But in my current career I'm often the only one on the team doing my job or even if our jobs are similar we're working on different projects so someone negotiating for us together doesn't work as well. However, to counteract that the government would ideally make some more strides forward with labor protections. But mandatory vacation, sick time, maternity leave is communism. 

[justme]

I'd like to see how many of those screaming that the extra UE payment is keeping people from working have done the math before the rail against it being "too much".

At the current $300 - if you add it to my state's payment the MAX would equate to $29,900 a year. So the argument is that people aren't taking open jobs because unemployment gives them more money? And people are totally ok with the idea that someone should be working 40 hours a week and not quite making $30k a year. The average rent for a 1 bedroom in my city is $1345 - which is over half of what these people would make if they took the jobs that paid less than UE (yes it could be less if you room share). 

Like I just can't get mad at people for not wanting to work 40+ hours a week for $29k which would undoubtedly be a job with the public where you'd have all the exposure. 

[thyme4change]

May 17, 2021 17:30:09 GMT -5 justme said:

I'd like to see how many of those screaming that the extra UE payment is keeping people from working have done the math before the rail against it being "too much".

At the current $300 - if you add it to my state's payment the MAX would equate to $29,900 a year. So the argument is that people aren't taking open jobs because unemployment gives them more money? And people are totally ok with the idea that someone should be working 40 hours a week and not quite making $30k a year. The average rent for a 1 bedroom in my city is $1345 - which is over half of what these people would make if they took the jobs that paid less than UE (yes it could be less if you room share). 

Like I just can't get mad at people for not wanting to work 40+ hours a week for $29k which would undoubtedly be a job with the public where you'd have all the exposure. 

It is different in every state, so it is possible that some states have this problem. And then, as we all tend to do, it gets applied to every job, every employee, every state.

[Miss Tequila]

May 17, 2021 17:30:09 GMT -5 justme said:

I'd like to see how many of those screaming that the extra UE payment is keeping people from working have done the math before the rail against it being "too much".

At the current $300 - if you add it to my state's payment the MAX would equate to $29,900 a year. So the argument is that people aren't taking open jobs because unemployment gives them more money? And people are totally ok with the idea that someone should be working 40 hours a week and not quite making $30k a year. The average rent for a 1 bedroom in my city is $1345 - which is over half of what these people would make if they took the jobs that paid less than UE (yes it could be less if you room share). 

Like I just can't get mad at people for not wanting to work 40+ hours a week for $29k which would undoubtedly be a job with the public where you'd have all the exposure. 

That is your city. I have two one-bedroom apartments that rent for less than $500. I’m buying a 3 unit and there is a one bedroom in it where the woman is paying $400 a month

So yes, in my area you can live on $30k a year. And yes, the fact that people can make as much not working as they can working is a huge issue for our small businesses.

How much do you think a dishwasher should make? You just said they can live on $15/hr. Should they be paid $30/hr? What about the cashier at your local grocery store? Should they make $20/hr? $25/hr? And then what about the skilled labor jobs? Because if the guy at McD’s is making as much as me with little stress, no way I’m running heavy machinery for $25/hr (that’s what the union guys made at the manufacturing company I worked at).

[justme]

May 17, 2021 18:03:50 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 17, 2021 17:30:09 GMT -5 justme said:

I'd like to see how many of those screaming that the extra UE payment is keeping people from working have done the math before the rail against it being "too much".

At the current $300 - if you add it to my state's payment the MAX would equate to $29,900 a year. So the argument is that people aren't taking open jobs because unemployment gives them more money? And people are totally ok with the idea that someone should be working 40 hours a week and not quite making $30k a year. The average rent for a 1 bedroom in my city is $1345 - which is over half of what these people would make if they took the jobs that paid less than UE (yes it could be less if you room share). 

Like I just can't get mad at people for not wanting to work 40+ hours a week for $29k which would undoubtedly be a job with the public where you'd have all the exposure. 

That is your city. I have two one-bedroom apartments that rent for less than $500. I’m buying a 3 unit and there is a one bedroom in it where the woman is paying $400 a month

So yes, in my area you can live on $30k a year. And yes, the fact that people can make as much not working as they can working is a huge issue for our small businesses.

How much do you think a dishwasher should make? You just said they can live on $15/hr. Should they be paid $30/hr? What about the cashier at your local grocery store? Should they make $20/hr? $25/hr? And then what about the skilled labor jobs? Because if the guy at McD’s is making as much as me with little stress, no way I’m running heavy machinery for $25/hr (that’s what the union guys made at the manufacturing company I worked at).

I think, excluding some low cost locations out there, expecting an adult to live in 2021 in the US under $30k for a full time job is ridiculous considering the lack of things people get here (namely health insurance). For such a great and rich country it's disgusting how many people we have living in poverty while working and how many people think that's perfectly ok. But they're usually the ones that don't want to raise wages "because if someone will work for the wage then they don't need to be raised" and then get upset that they try to go out to eat but the place is understaffed because no one currently wants to work for the wages but don't want to raise them either. 

[justme]

May 17, 2021 17:49:05 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

May 17, 2021 17:30:09 GMT -5 justme said:

I'd like to see how many of those screaming that the extra UE payment is keeping people from working have done the math before the rail against it being "too much".

At the current $300 - if you add it to my state's payment the MAX would equate to $29,900 a year. So the argument is that people aren't taking open jobs because unemployment gives them more money? And people are totally ok with the idea that someone should be working 40 hours a week and not quite making $30k a year. The average rent for a 1 bedroom in my city is $1345 - which is over half of what these people would make if they took the jobs that paid less than UE (yes it could be less if you room share). 

Like I just can't get mad at people for not wanting to work 40+ hours a week for $29k which would undoubtedly be a job with the public where you'd have all the exposure. 

It is different in every state, so it is possible that some states have this problem. And then, as we all tend to do, it gets applied to every job, every employee, every state.

True. But I'm not in a normally considered expensive city and our economy here is largely service/hospitality based. Which is the industry you most see complaints about not being able to find people. 

[Miss Tequila]

May 17, 2021 18:13:44 GMT -5 justme said:

May 17, 2021 18:03:50 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

That is your city. I have two one-bedroom apartments that rent for less than $500. I’m buying a 3 unit and there is a one bedroom in it where the woman is paying $400 a month

So yes, in my area you can live on $30k a year. And yes, the fact that people can make as much not working as they can working is a huge issue for our small businesses.

How much do you think a dishwasher should make? You just said they can live on $15/hr. Should they be paid $30/hr? What about the cashier at your local grocery store? Should they make $20/hr? $25/hr? And then what about the skilled labor jobs? Because if the guy at McD’s is making as much as me with little stress, no way I’m running heavy machinery for $25/hr (that’s what the union guys made at the manufacturing company I worked at).

I think, excluding some low cost locations out there, expecting an adult to live in 2021 in the US under $30k for a full time job is ridiculous considering the lack of things people get here (namely health insurance). For such a great and rich country it's disgusting how many people we have living in poverty while working and how many people think that's perfectly ok. But they're usually the ones that don't want to raise wages "because if someone will work for the wage then they don't need to be raised" and then get upset that they try to go out to eat but the place is understaffed because no one currently wants to work for the wages but don't want to raise them either. 

I’m pretty sure if an adult is making $30k, they are getting fully subsidized healthcare.

Again, no one is going to want to work if they can make as much not working. I would sit home, too. We need to stop incentivizing people not to work.

You didn’t answer my question, though. How much should a dishwasher make? How much should a fry cook make? How much should a cashier make? $15/hr isn’t sufficient so what is? $20/hr? And then what happens to the people who have more skills and are currently making $20/hr? Do they also get a raise?

[Deleted]

What I’m still wrestling with is how we view a lot of low skill jobs and the people that work them, and think the work they do is only worth minimum wage. But at the same time, these were the same people and jobs that we needed so desperately during the pandemic. The country would have literally not been able to function, and people who worked from home would not have been nearly as comfortable quarantining, without them.

I guess those people and their jobs are kind of valuable after all. Perhaps we could treat those employees a little better? Even if employers refuse to increase the pay, they can at least stop the nonsense about expecting poorly paid employees to accept a totally random work schedule and/or constantly be on standby for the employer. How can an adult that has a job like that for whatever reason, try to improve their circumstances by going to classes, college or to get some kind of training, OR work a second job? Which is what a lot of people feel like an adult working one of those jobs should be doing, right?

[haapai]

I gross $32K a year in an area where $500/mo apartments are hard to find.  My employer subsidizes my healthcare significantly, but I still kick in about $3500 a year towards the premium on a HDHP covering only myself.  Every once in a while, I make a stab at figuring out how much of my premium is paid by my employer and how much by myself but I always land up talking to weasels who aren't much help in nailing down what COBRA would cost me.  I can only guess that my employer is paying more than half of my healthcare premium and that I am paying at least a third of it. 

I must have chosen my profession or my home poorly.   I'm definitely not getting fully subsidized healthcare. 

[billisonboard]

May 17, 2021 18:28:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 17, 2021 18:13:44 GMT -5 justme said:

I think, excluding some low cost locations out there, expecting an adult to live in 2021 in the US under $30k for a full time job is ridiculous considering the lack of things people get here (namely health insurance). For such a great and rich country it's disgusting how many people we have living in poverty while working and how many people think that's perfectly ok. But they're usually the ones that don't want to raise wages "because if someone will work for the wage then they don't need to be raised" and then get upset that they try to go out to eat but the place is understaffed because no one currently wants to work for the wages but don't want to raise them either. 

I’m pretty sure if an adult is making $30k, they are getting fully subsidized healthcare.

Again, no one is going to want to work if they can make as much not working. I would sit home, too. We need to stop incentivizing people not to work.

You didn’t answer my question, though. How much should a dishwasher make? How much should a fry cook make? How much should a cashier make? $15/hr isn’t sufficient so what is? $20/hr? And then what happens to the people who have more skills and are currently making $20/hr? Do they also get a raise?

There is a skill to being a dishwasher that few MBA's possess. It is recognizing that reality that needs to happen.

[justme]

May 17, 2021 18:28:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 17, 2021 18:13:44 GMT -5 justme said:

I think, excluding some low cost locations out there, expecting an adult to live in 2021 in the US under $30k for a full time job is ridiculous considering the lack of things people get here (namely health insurance). For such a great and rich country it's disgusting how many people we have living in poverty while working and how many people think that's perfectly ok. But they're usually the ones that don't want to raise wages "because if someone will work for the wage then they don't need to be raised" and then get upset that they try to go out to eat but the place is understaffed because no one currently wants to work for the wages but don't want to raise them either. 

I’m pretty sure if an adult is making $30k, they are getting fully subsidized healthcare.

Again, no one is going to want to work if they can make as much not working. I would sit home, too. We need to stop incentivizing people not to work.

You didn’t answer my question, though. How much should a dishwasher make? How much should a fry cook make? How much should a cashier make? $15/hr isn’t sufficient so what is? $20/hr? And then what happens to the people who have more skills and are currently making $20/hr? Do they also get a raise?

Medicaid is only for those making around $17k assuming it was expanded in your state. But an adult making $30k does not get "fully subsidized healthcare". They might get a good portion of their premiums subsidized - but they'd still need to cover deductibles which can be high. I went to the calculator and put in info for my area - at $30k there's a lot of plans with $0 premiums but you're looking at thousands of dollars deductible or if you want a low/free deductible you're paying hundreds above what your subsidy is. 

I think it's fucked up that in the US we have around 17 million kids that don't get to eat every time they need to. That over 10% of our population lives below poverty wages - and considering that is $17k if you bump it up to 200% of the poverty line (or $34k) that's 29% of our population. So supposedly the richest nation in the world has millions of kids going hungry and damn near a third of their population not making much. If people are so aghast at our government making sure that we don't have people living so poorly - then yes wages need to rise. 

It boggles my mind that people are more upset at someone making $15/hour when there's people out there making millions per hour. That you want to pit those making $20/hour against those making $15/hr instead of those making $13 MILLION an hour and paying very little taxes. 

The problem is that wages have stagnated in this country for decades. That production has increased, efficiency has increased, profits have increased - but businesses neglected to raise wages and instead kept it and passed it onto a share holders and the c-suite.

In 2000 if someone washing dishes was making $10/hour that position SHOULD be making $15/hour in 2021 simply because of inflation. (And actually it should be $15.51). The restaurants sure are charging me more for food now - why shouldn't their workers pay have increased?

There's not a damn thing out there that HASN'T increased in price in the last 12 years except Federal minimum wage.

[Deleted]

May 17, 2021 19:03:53 GMT -5 justme said:

May 17, 2021 18:28:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I’m pretty sure if an adult is making $30k, they are getting fully subsidized healthcare.

Again, no one is going to want to work if they can make as much not working. I would sit home, too. We need to stop incentivizing people not to work.

You didn’t answer my question, though. How much should a dishwasher make? How much should a fry cook make? How much should a cashier make? $15/hr isn’t sufficient so what is? $20/hr? And then what happens to the people who have more skills and are currently making $20/hr? Do they also get a raise?

Medicaid is only for those making around $17k assuming it was expanded in your state. But an adult making $30k does not get "fully subsidized healthcare". They might get a good portion of their premiums subsidized - but they'd still need to cover deductibles which can be high. I went to the calculator and put in info for my area - at $30k there's a lot of plans with $0 premiums but you're looking at thousands of dollars deductible or if you want a low/free deductible you're paying hundreds above what your subsidy is. 

I think it's fucked up that in the US we have around 17 million kids that don't get to eat every time they need to. That over 10% of our population lives below poverty wages - and considering that is $17k if you bump it up to 200% of the poverty line (or $34k) that's 29% of our population. So supposedly the richest nation in the world has millions of kids going hungry and damn near a third of their population not making much. If people are so aghast at our government making sure that we don't have people living so poorly - then yes wages need to rise. 

It boggles my mind that people are more upset at someone making $15/hour when there's people out there making millions per hour. That you want to pit those making $20/hour against those making $15/hr instead of those making $13 MILLION an hour and paying very little taxes. 

The problem is that wages have stagnated in this country for decades. That production has increased, efficiency has increased, profits have increased - but businesses neglected to raise wages and instead kept it and passed it onto a share holders and the c-suite.

In 2000 if someone washing dishes was making $10/hour that position SHOULD be making $15/hour in 2021 simply because of inflation. (And actually it should be $15.51). The restaurants sure are charging me more for food now - why shouldn't their workers pay have increased?

There's not a damn thing out there that HASN'T increased in price in the last 12 years except Federal minimum wage.

YES!

[Opti]

May 17, 2021 18:53:33 GMT -5 haapai said:

I gross $32K a year in an area where $500/mo apartments are hard to find.  My employer subsidizes my healthcare significantly, but I still kick in about $3500 a year towards the premium on a HDHP covering only myself.  Every once in a while, I make a stab at figuring out how much of my premium is paid by my employer and how much by myself but I always land up talking to weasels who aren't much help in nailing down what COBRA would cost me.  I can only guess that my employer is paying more than half of my healthcare premium and that I am paying at least a third of it. 

I must have chosen my profession or my home poorly.   I'm definitely not getting fully subsidized healthcare. 

I make less than you and you can't find an apartment for that price. You'd be lucky to rent a room for that, and most are probably north of $600/mo plus utils. I need to calculate my healthcare costs because I opted out due to finances until taxes put too much of a penalty on me. 

One cannot predict the future despite what some YMers think. Had I been able to stay in IT my entire career without so many layoffs etc. I'd be doing better than I am now. 

[Opti]

May 17, 2021 18:28:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 17, 2021 18:13:44 GMT -5 justme said:

I think, excluding some low cost locations out there, expecting an adult to live in 2021 in the US under $30k for a full time job is ridiculous considering the lack of things people get here (namely health insurance). For such a great and rich country it's disgusting how many people we have living in poverty while working and how many people think that's perfectly ok. But they're usually the ones that don't want to raise wages "because if someone will work for the wage then they don't need to be raised" and then get upset that they try to go out to eat but the place is understaffed because no one currently wants to work for the wages but don't want to raise them either. 

I’m pretty sure if an adult is making $30k, they are getting fully subsidized healthcare.

Again, no one is going to want to work if they can make as much not working. I would sit home, too. We need to stop incentivizing people not to work.

You didn’t answer my question, though. How much should a dishwasher make? How much should a fry cook make? How much should a cashier make? $15/hr isn’t sufficient so what is? $20/hr? And then what happens to the people who have more skills and are currently making $20/hr? Do they also get a raise?

You need to be less sure, because you are wrong. Are you like the mayoral candidates who thought the median cost of a home in Brooklyn was between 80 to $100K? Your belief smacks of privilege and lack of knowledge. Do you have any real world recent experience in low paid FT jobs? 


According to recent data from the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF), about 156,199,800 Americans, or around 49 percent of the country’s total population, receive employer-sponsored health insurance (also called group health insurance).

www.ehealthinsurance.com/resources/small-business/how-many-americans-get-health-insurance-from-their-employer

So about 49% have employer sponsored healthcare down from around 52% according to this 2017 link. However, please check out this graph. Percent of people having their healthcare fully paid by their employer is about 10% in 2017. If you aren't Andrew Yang it really shouldn't be a surprise that those folks with fully paid healthcare insurance make above average wages.

content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/PMCMS/p-j-n2zlwe2mjjgn7fpyha.png

[Opti]

Miss T, you can do the full math if you'd like, but I want to point out that means roughly 5% of all workers had fully paid healthcare from their employer in 2017. With the pandemic and Trump policies, I expect that number has dropped.

[Opti]

I think most people do want to work, but they want to survive as well. Too many in our rich country are struggling to get by despite working FT.


thefreethoughtproject.com/workers-make-less-than-30k/

The truth is that most American families are deeply struggling, but you hardly ever hear this from the mainstream media. Yes, about 10 percent of all American workers are making $100,000 or more a year, but most of those high paying jobs are concentrated in the major cities along the east and west coasts. For much of the rest of the country, these are very challenging times as the cost of living soars but their paychecks do not. According to the Social Security Administration, the median income in the United States last year was just $32,838.05. In other words, 50 percent of American workers made more than $32,838.05 and 50 percent of American workers made less than $32,838.05 in 2018.

That means that about half the country is flat broke and struggling just to survive financially.



Of course those at the top of the economic food chain often don’t have a lot of sympathy for those that are hurting. Many of them have the attitude that those that are struggling should just go out and get one of the “good jobs” that the mainstream media is endlessly touting.



But most jobs in the United States are not “good jobs”.

[Opti]

One last comment. The number of people qualifying for all these amazing federal benefits are not as large as articles and some people would have you believe. The articles love to use a family of four as an example, but as time goes on and costs go up, average household size has dropped significantly. One person and two person households greatly out number four person or larger households. So for the most part these mythical baskets of bennies articles tout have little bearing on the average under $30K or median income household. 


www.bing.com/search?q=us+households+by+size&form=ANNTH1&refig=228a634d3cb4451d8e07beb6780c493e
Jan 20, 2021 · US Census Bureau. (December 1, 2020). Distribution of households in the United States from ...


ONE PERSON TWO PERSONS THREE PERSONS SIX PERSONS

2020 28.18 % 34.83             % 15.05 % 2.27 %

2019 28.37 % 34.51             % 15.07 % 2.26 %

2018 28.01 % 34.52             % 15.15 % 2.23 %

I accidently closed a link, but the average household size in 2020 is 2.53 people. (Average, not median!)

[stillmovingforward]

DS2 makes $18 per hour and works 40 hours per week. Not subtracting insurance, because he is still on mine so doesn't need it from the company he works for, he brings home about $1,050 per every two weeks. He's paying his taxes.
Studio apartments around here start at $900 super trashy one without utilities and jump up to $1,500 for a one bedroom. So, he'll basically pay two weeks wages JUST for rent. And we don't live in a city. And that is looking within one hour of his workplace. So, sadly because I can't wait to be an empty nester, he is still at home. 
Its rough. 

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

I think the govt could have done a better job (while saving themselves some $$) pretty easily. They shouldn’t have made it where u make more from staying home than working. They should have made unemployment a percentage of your prior income up to the amount of state unemployment + 300 (or $600 or whatever the fed number is). It shouldn’t have been over 100% of What you made prior. Maybe 90 or 95%?

That would give people a small incentive to get back out there once covid got better while ensuring they didn’t go under during the height of the pandemic. This would have also preserved money to save if we need to extend this because of new virus waves. It wouldn’t have been hard to implement. I know CA UE is based on a percentage of what u made while employed. So just increase the percentage to 90 or 95% and change the. Cap and done.. should be easy to program that in the computer calculating bennies.

[Miss Tequila]

May 17, 2021 18:37:30 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

What I’m still wrestling with is how we view a lot of low skill jobs and the people that work them, and think the work they do is only worth minimum wage. But at the same time, these were the same people and jobs that we needed so desperately during the pandemic. The country would have literally not been able to function, and people who worked from home would not have been nearly as comfortable quarantining, without them.

I guess those people and their jobs are kind of valuable after all. Perhaps we could treat those employees a little better? Even if employers refuse to increase the pay, they can at least stop the nonsense about expecting poorly paid employees to accept a totally random work schedule and/or constantly be on standby for the employer. How can an adult that has a job like that for whatever reason, try to improve their circumstances by going to classes, college or to get some kind of training, OR work a second job? Which is what a lot of people feel like an adult working one of those jobs should be doing, right?

It was an honest question. If $15/hr isn’t enough (for the record, my local McD’s now pays over $15/hr as a starting wage), what is? Is it $20/hr? $30/hr? And then what happens to the pay scale for jobs that require more skill than running a cash register or flipping burgers?

[billisonboard]

May 17, 2021 21:10:38 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 17, 2021 18:37:30 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

What I’m still wrestling with is how we view a lot of low skill jobs and the people that work them, and think the work they do is only worth minimum wage. But at the same time, these were the same people and jobs that we needed so desperately during the pandemic. The country would have literally not been able to function, and people who worked from home would not have been nearly as comfortable quarantining, without them.

I guess those people and their jobs are kind of valuable after all. Perhaps we could treat those employees a little better? Even if employers refuse to increase the pay, they can at least stop the nonsense about expecting poorly paid employees to accept a totally random work schedule and/or constantly be on standby for the employer. How can an adult that has a job like that for whatever reason, try to improve their circumstances by going to classes, college or to get some kind of training, OR work a second job? Which is what a lot of people feel like an adult working one of those jobs should be doing, right?

It was an honest question. If $15/hr isn’t enough (for the record, my local McD’s now pays over $15/hr as a starting wage), what is? Is it $20/hr? $30/hr? And then what happens to the pay scale for jobs that require more skill than running a cash register or flipping burgers?

Enough is what gets the job filled. The same would be true for every job. If it takes more to fill the dishwasher job than the Head Cook is willing to work for, so be it.

[Lizard Queen]

May 17, 2021 21:10:38 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 17, 2021 18:37:30 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

What I’m still wrestling with is how we view a lot of low skill jobs and the people that work them, and think the work they do is only worth minimum wage. But at the same time, these were the same people and jobs that we needed so desperately during the pandemic. The country would have literally not been able to function, and people who worked from home would not have been nearly as comfortable quarantining, without them.

I guess those people and their jobs are kind of valuable after all. Perhaps we could treat those employees a little better? Even if employers refuse to increase the pay, they can at least stop the nonsense about expecting poorly paid employees to accept a totally random work schedule and/or constantly be on standby for the employer. How can an adult that has a job like that for whatever reason, try to improve their circumstances by going to classes, college or to get some kind of training, OR work a second job? Which is what a lot of people feel like an adult working one of those jobs should be doing, right?

It was an honest question. If $15/hr isn’t enough (for the record, my local McD’s now pays over $15/hr as a starting wage), what is? Is it $20/hr? $30/hr? And then what happens to the pay scale for jobs that require more skill than running a cash register or flipping burgers?

Does that McDonald's give those people making $15/hr 40 hours/week consistently? When I was PT, I was asked to work 40 hrs/wk, but as that dragged on, I started asking about benefits. Well, that became averaging over 30 for 6 months, which I did eventually, and it became weaseling out of paying benefits again. In reality, I was expected to do the work of a full-time employee in the time I was alotted as a part-time.

[Opti]

May 17, 2021 21:02:13 GMT -5 Mardi Gras Audrey said:

I think the govt could have done a better job (while saving themselves some $$) pretty easily. They shouldn’t have made it where u make more from staying home than working. They should have made unemployment a percentage of your prior income up to the amount of state unemployment + 300 (or $600 or whatever the fed number is). It shouldn’t have been over 100% of What you made prior. Maybe 90 or 95%?

That would give people a small incentive to get back out there once covid got better while ensuring they didn’t go under during the height of the pandemic. This would have also preserved money to save if we need to extend this because of new virus waves. It wouldn’t have been hard to implement. I know CA UE is based on a percentage of what u made while employed. So just increase the percentage to 90 or 95% and change the. Cap and done.. should be easy to program that in the computer calculating bennies.

It would have been nice to do better, but unfortunately legislation of this type has to pass and pass quickly to be effective. Any representative can understand and sell an extra $600, but nuanced formulas are harder to understand, and harder to sell. I have no idea what the current state of extra $$ are at the federal level or the state, but the original bill provided for just 4 months of bumped payments which I think ended last summer some time. 

And yes a PT coworker of mine left because of Covid and made way more than I did in those 4 plus months. For her it was a less risky deal than it would be for me. She was close to collecting early SS, so if she didn't get hired back or find another PT job, she'd be OK. 

Old link from over a year ago-

www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/unemployment-benefits-cares-act-covid-pandemic/index.html

States are beginning to implement the historic enhancement of unemployment benefits that Congress included in its $2.2 trillion relief package to address the coronavirus pandemic savaging the economy. It includes a $600 weekly increase for up to four months, on top of state benefits.

[Miss Tequila]

May 17, 2021 19:03:53 GMT -5 justme said:

May 17, 2021 18:28:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I’m pretty sure if an adult is making $30k, they are getting fully subsidized healthcare.

Again, no one is going to want to work if they can make as much not working. I would sit home, too. We need to stop incentivizing people not to work.

You didn’t answer my question, though. How much should a dishwasher make? How much should a fry cook make? How much should a cashier make? $15/hr isn’t sufficient so what is? $20/hr? And then what happens to the people who have more skills and are currently making $20/hr? Do they also get a raise?

Medicaid is only for those making around $17k assuming it was expanded in your state. But an adult making $30k does not get "fully subsidized healthcare". They might get a good portion of their premiums subsidized - but they'd still need to cover deductibles which can be high. I went to the calculator and put in info for my area - at $30k there's a lot of plans with $0 premiums but you're looking at thousands of dollars deductible or if you want a low/free deductible you're paying hundreds above what your subsidy is. 

I think it's fucked up that in the US we have around 17 million kids that don't get to eat every time they need to. That over 10% of our population lives below poverty wages - and considering that is $17k if you bump it up to 200% of the poverty line (or $34k) that's 29% of our population. So supposedly the richest nation in the world has millions of kids going hungry and damn near a third of their population not making much. If people are so aghast at our government making sure that we don't have people living so poorly - then yes wages need to rise. 

It boggles my mind that people are more upset at someone making $15/hour when there's people out there making millions per hour. That you want to pit those making $20/hour against those making $15/hr instead of those making $13 MILLION an hour and paying very little taxes. 

The problem is that wages have stagnated in this country for decades. That production has increased, efficiency has increased, profits have increased - but businesses neglected to raise wages and instead kept it and passed it onto a share holders and the c-suite.

In 2000 if someone washing dishes was making $10/hour that position SHOULD be making $15/hour in 2021 simply because of inflation. (And actually it should be $15.51). The restaurants sure are charging me more for food now - why shouldn't their workers pay have increased?

There's not a damn thing out there that HASN'T increased in price in the last 12 years except Federal minimum wage.

But you said $15/hr wasn’t sufficient and no one should work 40 hours and live off that? Now you are saying they should be making $15.51? Is that the acceptable wage? In the local businesses that I see struggling because they can’t find staff, none of the owners are making millions a year, let alone per hour. I have no idea what the hourly rate of employees have to do with corporate execs that make crazy salaries. The majority of employees do not work for those large companies.

I agree that no child should starve. I have no idea how that happens, given the welfare and food stamp benefits. I don’t know why we don’t take care of our own before we worry about helping other countries.

[Opti]

May 17, 2021 21:21:17 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 17, 2021 21:10:38 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

It was an honest question. If $15/hr isn’t enough (for the record, my local McD’s now pays over $15/hr as a starting wage), what is? Is it $20/hr? $30/hr? And then what happens to the pay scale for jobs that require more skill than running a cash register or flipping burgers?

Enough is what gets the job filled. The same would be true for every job. If it takes more to fill the dishwasher job than the Head Cook is willing to work for, so be it.

That's a biased economy answer. I'm not entirely sure what the answer should be, but I don't think its fair to only look at it that way. Just like most countries have systemic racism, we also have systemic job classism that rewards the few and penalizes the masses in large part because they are masses. 

For example, because of the Pandemic, cleaning suddenly became important because people did not want to die of Covid. Sadly that did not translate I believe to higher wages for low paid cleaning grunts but it probably was a bonanza to certain cleaning companies and people who started cleaning businesses to capitalize on the moment. 

[Opti]

May 17, 2021 21:34:29 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 17, 2021 19:03:53 GMT -5 justme said:

Medicaid is only for those making around $17k assuming it was expanded in your state. But an adult making $30k does not get "fully subsidized healthcare". They might get a good portion of their premiums subsidized - but they'd still need to cover deductibles which can be high. I went to the calculator and put in info for my area - at $30k there's a lot of plans with $0 premiums but you're looking at thousands of dollars deductible or if you want a low/free deductible you're paying hundreds above what your subsidy is. 

I think it's fucked up that in the US we have around 17 million kids that don't get to eat every time they need to. That over 10% of our population lives below poverty wages - and considering that is $17k if you bump it up to 200% of the poverty line (or $34k) that's 29% of our population. So supposedly the richest nation in the world has millions of kids going hungry and damn near a third of their population not making much. If people are so aghast at our government making sure that we don't have people living so poorly - then yes wages need to rise. 

It boggles my mind that people are more upset at someone making $15/hour when there's people out there making millions per hour. That you want to pit those making $20/hour against those making $15/hr instead of those making $13 MILLION an hour and paying very little taxes. 

The problem is that wages have stagnated in this country for decades. That production has increased, efficiency has increased, profits have increased - but businesses neglected to raise wages and instead kept it and passed it onto a share holders and the c-suite.

In 2000 if someone washing dishes was making $10/hour that position SHOULD be making $15/hour in 2021 simply because of inflation. (And actually it should be $15.51). The restaurants sure are charging me more for food now - why shouldn't their workers pay have increased?

There's not a damn thing out there that HASN'T increased in price in the last 12 years except Federal minimum wage.

But you said $15/hr wasn’t sufficient and no one should work 40 hours and live off that? Now you are saying they should be making $15.51? Is that the acceptable wage? In the local businesses that I see struggling because they can’t find staff, none of the owners are making millions a year, let alone per hour. I have no idea what the hourly rate of employees have to do with corporate execs that make crazy salaries. The majority of employees do not work for those large companies.

I agree that no child should starve. I have no idea how that happens, given the welfare and food stamp benefits. I don’t know why we don’t take care of our own before we worry about helping other countries.

I don't know why you want a one size fits all number for hourly pay, since COL varies significantly throughout the US. And you worked in finance or accounting no less. Turns out the majority of workers don't work for small companies either. (I think small company is defined as 50 or fewer employees, one can look it up if they want to check.)

From this moments internet search...

Since 2014, the latest year for which there is census data, this is no longer the case. At this point, 39.2 percent were employed at either a large or very large company, while 26.5 percent worked at mid-sized companies and 34.3 percent worked at small companies. The effect has been sharper in some sectors than others.

Which means the majority of workers do not work at small companies.

Now if one takes the limited view the Fortune 500 or 1000 or whatever defines corporate America, yes not the majority.

There’s no doubt that when it comes to providing jobs, the Fortune 500 is a vital cog in the nation’s economic engine. All together, companies on the list employed nearly 27 million people last year, which represents about 17% of the nation’s overall workforce—a figure that’s been relatively constant for the last 20 years.
www.bing.com/search?q=percent+of+the+us+workforce+employed+by+the+fortune+500&form=ANNTH1&refig=6f0f4c1c322b40b68e47e55d29ef9b3b

[justme]

May 17, 2021 21:02:13 GMT -5 Mardi Gras Audrey said:

I think the govt could have done a better job (while saving themselves some $$) pretty easily. They shouldn’t have made it where u make more from staying home than working. They should have made unemployment a percentage of your prior income up to the amount of state unemployment + 300 (or $600 or whatever the fed number is). It shouldn’t have been over 100% of What you made prior. Maybe 90 or 95%?

That would give people a small incentive to get back out there once covid got better while ensuring they didn’t go under during the height of the pandemic. This would have also preserved money to save if we need to extend this because of new virus waves. It wouldn’t have been hard to implement. I know CA UE is based on a percentage of what u made while employed. So just increase the percentage to 90 or 95% and change the. Cap and done.. should be easy to program that in the computer calculating bennies.

It already IS a percentage based on your income. It's just a really low amount. You have to make over a certain amount to get the full amount of UE in your state (which varies by state). If you made less than the certain amount you get less based on some type of calculation. 

But UE is already ridiculously low. Without the additional of federal I couldn't even pay my mortgage with my state's UE and I would get the max amount and I'm in a 2 bedroom condo not anything fnacy. My state's max is equivalent to $14k a year. People really aren't making THAT much on UE even with the max payments. The $300 fed only equates to an additional $15k/year on top of whatever your state provides. California's max UE is equivalent to $23k and New York's is $26k. This is not a ton and a half of money people are getting.

Oh and there's a max amount of money states have on their UE (ignore the fed stimulus payment) so they more money you qualify for the quicker you run out of benefits. 

[Miss Tequila]

May 17, 2021 21:51:49 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 17, 2021 21:34:29 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

But you said $15/hr wasn’t sufficient and no one should work 40 hours and live off that? Now you are saying they should be making $15.51? Is that the acceptable wage? In the local businesses that I see struggling because they can’t find staff, none of the owners are making millions a year, let alone per hour. I have no idea what the hourly rate of employees have to do with corporate execs that make crazy salaries. The majority of employees do not work for those large companies.

I agree that no child should starve. I have no idea how that happens, given the welfare and food stamp benefits. I don’t know why we don’t take care of our own before we worry about helping other countries.

I don't know why you want a one size fits all number for hourly pay, since COL varies significantly throughout the US. And you worked in finance or accounting no less. Turns out the majority of workers don't work for small companies either. (I think small company is defined as 50 or fewer employees, one can look it up if they want to check.)

From this moments internet search...

Since 2014, the latest year for which there is census data, this is no longer the case. At this point, 39.2 percent were employed at either a large or very large company, while 26.5 percent worked at mid-sized companies and 34.3 percent worked at small companies. The effect has been sharper in some sectors than others.

Which means the majority of workers do not work at small companies.

Now if one takes the limited view the Fortune 500 or 1000 or whatever defines corporate America, yes not the majority.

There’s no doubt that when it comes to providing jobs, the Fortune 500 is a vital cog in the nation’s economic engine. All together, companies on the list employed nearly 27 million people last year, which represents about 17% of the nation’s overall workforce—a figure that’s been relatively constant for the last 20 years.
www.bing.com/search?q=percent+of+the+us+workforce+employed+by+the+fortune+500&form=ANNTH1&refig=6f0f4c1c322b40b68e47e55d29ef9b3b

Funny that you are accusing me of wanting a one size fits all when it comes to hourly pay, since I actually wasn’t the one that thought that. It was another person who is in Finance no less. I understand that you live in a HCOLA and I don’t. Yet the same subsidy is given to all unemployed workers. And in MY area, that is causing an issue because a single person can live ok on unemployment now. There is no incentive to go back to work.

[Miss Tequila]

May 17, 2021 21:21:17 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 17, 2021 21:10:38 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

It was an honest question. If $15/hr isn’t enough (for the record, my local McD’s now pays over $15/hr as a starting wage), what is? Is it $20/hr? $30/hr? And then what happens to the pay scale for jobs that require more skill than running a cash register or flipping burgers?

Enough is what gets the job filled. The same would be true for every job. If it takes more to fill the dishwasher job than the Head Cook is willing to work for, so be it.

I agree with letting the market play out. Right now, we are messing with the market by paying people an extra $300 a week to not work.