Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[nidena]

Apr 18, 2022 7:42:01 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

We have a training track for new hires. Past one class when you get to my grade there's nothing for us on a national level. My last in person course produced by work was just after my wedding and my 5th anniversary is this summer. Training past that is 100% composed of conferences and courses from outside companies.

Maybe others have a better balance or make the time anyway but when I was in the office I could absolutely go a week without seeing my boss except in passing in the hallway. It's a never ending series of fires and no one is just sitting and mentoring or training anyone.

And I find most of it be bs anyway with the way our offices are set up. The manager could be in Chicago and have 1 person in that office and the rest are scattered around the region.

Plus I haven't had a single migraine since we left the building. It's toxic. But no one will admit to that.

That's how my aunt developed Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia: toxic building.

[formerroomate99]

Apr 18, 2022 7:32:01 GMT -5 azucena said:

Isn't a compromise that new hires need to be in the office during something like a 6 month probationary period plus it in person training is so much more effective.  Then, employees can demonstrate productivity and then transition to work from home.

Meanwhile, my office is going the opposite.  We could choose our hybrid schedule with manager approval.  We're struggling with 3 low performers right now.  One was actually put on performance improvement but still allowed to wfh 4 days a week.

My company went remote about a year before the pandemic. But for two years before that, it was common to see coworkers getting on a conference call with the guy in the next cube, simply because our cubes were so small that having two people in the queue with an HR violation waiting to happen. Since I’m a woman with mostly male coworkers, and I have terrible vision, getting on calls and having my coworkers share their screen with me with so much easier than going over to the next cube and trying to get close enough to their screens so that I could see what was going on without completely creeping out my coworker.

For a strictly office job, on boarding and training and mentoring and managing new people remotely is completely doable. The technology has been with us for a long time. But it is a very different animal from the office. Some managers are having a very hard time learning how to manage in this new environment.

No I have to say, when you’re trying to plan a complex project, there really is no substitute for getting everybody in the same room with a giant whiteboard.

[formerroomate99]

Apr 18, 2022 10:27:27 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 18, 2022 7:42:01 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

We have a training track for new hires. Past one class when you get to my grade there's nothing for us on a national level. My last in person course produced by work was just after my wedding and my 5th anniversary is this summer. Training past that is 100% composed of conferences and courses from outside companies.

Maybe others have a better balance or make the time anyway but when I was in the office I could absolutely go a week without seeing my boss except in passing in the hallway. It's a never ending series of fires and no one is just sitting and mentoring or training anyone.

And I find most of it be bs anyway with the way our offices are set up. The manager could be in Chicago and have 1 person in that office and the rest are scattered around the region.

Plus I haven't had a single migraine since we left the building. It's toxic. But no one will admit to that.

That's how my aunt developed Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia: toxic building.

Honestly, I think most office buildings are pretty nasty. When I went remote, about a year before the pandemic, the number of times I got sick dropped by 2/3. I always thought it was my kids fault. And don’t even get me started on the allergic fits from subpar HVAC systems or having 20 years of tendinitis because I’m always working in a building that’s cold enough to hang meat.

[teen persuasion]

Apr 18, 2022 7:24:07 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

DN2 is not happy that he is required to go to the office 2 days a week.  He thinks people who were productive the last two years should be allowed to work from home.  Those that were not should be required to work in the office.  

He doesn't miss the social aspect of being in the office at all.  

Yes, it's about the building.  His company owns their building that has been sitting empty except for IT for 2 years.  

Funny thing is, DS2's roommate already works for Paychex (so DS2 has his own connection, if he wanted in). Roommate works in IT, and is fully remote.

[TheOtherMe]

Maybe nobody has been in the building.  I made the assumption IT was there, but maybe they were able to keep the system going remotely.  Think big bank.

[Sharon]

After doing quite a bit of online searching for some new furniture I drove a half hour to a store that supposedly had what I wanted.  Chimes rang on the door when I entered, I wandered around for quite a bit and no one seemed to be around.  I finally wandered to the back of the store and there was a man asleep behind the desk with his phone in his hand.  I spoke to him several times and he never work up.  I wandered around for a few more minutes and finally just left.

I did send the store an e-mail about my experience.

[nidena]

What recession? The Great Resignation rages on with 4.3 million Americans quitting in May amid a still-hot job market

In May, 4.3 million Americans quit, according to the latest data release from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That means that 2.8% of the workforce walked out on their jobs, most likely to take up a new one. Hiring stayed robust, with 6.5 million workers getting an offer letter.

[giramomma]

So. From the trenches, DS has been looking into getting a new job since he quit his old one...(It was either quit or be fired).

A few weeks ago, he had an interview with Dunkin. The have been hurting...having open job fairs, etc. He applied, and the wanted to see him like the day they got his application.

He had two interviews, shook hands, and the  manager never got back to him about an official start date. DS even texted the person and the manager never responded.

So, he went and got another job. Hopefully this one sticks. He has an official training date and start date.

I am perplexed as to why someone with a good 2.5 year work history would be ghosted by a business that desperately needs help.

[Ryan]

I've been at the same company for about 11 years, overall great company.  We do 3 days in the office, 2 days at home but it's overall pretty flexible.  I have a relatively short commute, so that's not a huge deal for me.  The only reason I really dislike going into the office is because being at home to get my kids to school, pick them up, and drive them where after school is way easier.  I also find there are less distractions than when I'm in the office.

For awhile I was sold on being totally remote, but it would be a little challenging to connect with co-workers when you're doing that full time.  

[billisonboard]

Jul 7, 2022 15:43:30 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So. From the trenches, DS has been looking into getting a new job since he quit his old one...(It was either quit or be fired).

A few weeks ago, he had an interview with Dunkin. The have been hurting...having open job fairs, etc. He applied, and the wanted to see him like the day they got his application.

He had two interviews, shook hands, and the  manager never got back to him about an official start date. DS even texted the person and the manager never responded.

So, he went and got another job. Hopefully this one sticks. He has an official training date and start date.

I am perplexed as to why someone with a good 2.5 year work history would be ghosted by a business that desperately needs help.

Hmmm.

...(It was either quit or be fired). ... someone with a good 2.5 year work history ...

[giramomma]

Jul 7, 2022 15:53:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 7, 2022 15:43:30 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So. From the trenches, DS has been looking into getting a new job since he quit his old one...(It was either quit or be fired).

A few weeks ago, he had an interview with Dunkin. The have been hurting...having open job fairs, etc. He applied, and the wanted to see him like the day they got his application.

He had two interviews, shook hands, and the  manager never got back to him about an official start date. DS even texted the person and the manager never responded.

So, he went and got another job. Hopefully this one sticks. He has an official training date and start date.

I am perplexed as to why someone with a good 2.5 year work history would be ghosted by a business that desperately needs help.

Hmmm.

...(It was either quit or be fired). ... someone with a good 2.5 year work history ...

My son was a weekend worker. Every four months, you are given three points for infractions. If you go through those three points, you are fired.

Over the winter, a customer came into his workplace with a loaded gun. DS was the one to alert his supervisor. He was a little shaken, and left work about an hour early. He lost a half point for that.

DS wanted to take a day off of work for *fun*, but couldn't find someone to fill his shift. He had to call out for that. Fine. He lost a point for that.

Then DS got sick. As a weekend worker, he accumulates PTO, but is not allowed to take it. (I shit you not). DS had a fever of like 101 and the trots. Work didn't care. He lost a point for calling in sick.

So, DS had some conflicts with his ultimate games and work. he couldn't find anyone to pick up his shift. So, it was either quit or be fired.

DS aworked at a grocery store. Where, you know, one would think the owners would want their workers to not infect customers with viruses. DS put me on speaker when he talked to his supervisor. A Drs note would not have been enough to prevent the loss of a point. He was sick. He got docked.

My son never called out sick for two years. He worked ALLL during covid. Got a shit ton of bonuses for that.

Welcome to the world of menial jobs.

ETA: I think it is totally reasonable for a minor to see a customer with a loaded gun, and get a little upset over it.

[nidena]

Jul 7, 2022 15:43:30 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So. From the trenches, DS has been looking into getting a new job since he quit his old one...(It was either quit or be fired).

A few weeks ago, he had an interview with Dunkin. The have been hurting...having open job fairs, etc. He applied, and the wanted to see him like the day they got his application.

He had two interviews, shook hands, and the  manager never got back to him about an official start date. DS even texted the person and the manager never responded.

So, he went and got another job. Hopefully this one sticks. He has an official training date and start date.

I am perplexed as to why someone with a good 2.5 year work history would be ghosted by a business that desperately needs help.

Maybe the manager left.
No obligation to respond if they don't work there any more.

[bean29]

He could apply at Delta, idk when they will be hiring next. DD just was there last week for a hiring event, she does the fingerprinting & other admin stuff.

I didn’t say anything b/c I thought he had solid employment & that he was headed off for his diesel training school.

[scgal]

Jul 7, 2022 16:01:39 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 7, 2022 15:53:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Hmmm.

...(It was either quit or be fired). ... someone with a good 2.5 year work history ...

My son was a weekend worker. Every four months, you are given three points for infractions. If you go through those three points, you are fired.

Over the winter, a customer came into his workplace with a loaded gun. DS was the one to alert his supervisor. He was a little shaken, and left work about an hour early. He lost a half point for that.

DS wanted to take a day off of work for *fun*, but couldn't find someone to fill his shift. He had to call out for that. Fine. He lost a point for that.

Then DS got sick. As a weekend worker, he accumulates PTO, but is not allowed to take it. (I shit you not). DS had a fever of like 101 and the trots. Work didn't care. He lost a point for calling in sick.

So, DS had some conflicts with his ultimate games and work. he couldn't find anyone to pick up his shift. So, it was either quit or be fired.

DS aworked at a grocery store. Where, you know, one would think the owners would want their workers to not infect customers with viruses. DS put me on speaker when he talked to his supervisor. A Drs note would not have been enough to prevent the loss of a point. He was sick. He got docked.

My son never called out sick for two years. He worked ALLL during covid. Got a shit ton of bonuses for that.

Welcome to the world of menial jobs.

ETA: I think it is totally reasonable for a minor to see a customer with a loaded gun, and get a little upset over it.

This may seem harsh but I'm speaking as someone who have direct reports. 

I see this alot at work. Associates get into trouble with their attendance and they blame the company. What is ultimate games? Why would it conflict with work? Why would he put it over his job.

The real issue is the work place gives 3 occurrence's in 4 months that is actually very generous. He decided to have a fun day not saving and occurrence for a real reason like illness. I seen a lot of so called good employees lose their job for this reason. You can't be a good employee if you like riding the attendance policy on the razor edge. To be a good employee you must be at work. 

[azucena]

Or employers could offer reasonable time off policies.  Would save them a ton of training time and paperwork.

Having PTO and not being allowed to use it is the true problem here.

[bean29]

Jul 7, 2022 16:01:39 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 7, 2022 15:53:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Hmmm.

...(It was either quit or be fired). ... someone with a good 2.5 year work history ...

My son was a weekend worker. Every four months, you are given three points for infractions. If you go through those three points, you are fired.

Over the winter, a customer came into his workplace with a loaded gun. DS was the one to alert his supervisor. He was a little shaken, and left work about an hour early. He lost a half point for that.

DS wanted to take a day off of work for *fun*, but couldn't find someone to fill his shift. He had to call out for that. Fine. He lost a point for that.

Then DS got sick. As a weekend worker, he accumulates PTO, but is not allowed to take it. (I shit you not). DS had a fever of like 101 and the trots. Work didn't care. He lost a point for calling in sick.

So, DS had some conflicts with his ultimate games and work. he couldn't find anyone to pick up his shift. So, it was either quit or be fired.

DS aworked at a grocery store. Where, you know, one would think the owners would want their workers to not infect customers with viruses. DS put me on speaker when he talked to his supervisor. A Drs note would not have been enough to prevent the loss of a point. He was sick. He got docked.

My son never called out sick for two years. He worked ALLL during covid. Got a shit ton of bonuses for that.

Welcome to the world of menial jobs.

ETA: I think it is totally reasonable for a minor to see a customer with a loaded gun, and get a little upset over it.

He worked at the regional store that starts with W? My DN and his BIL both work there on weekends as does one of the beauticians for the beauty salon I get my hair done at.  They get paid so much to work weekends at that store, most of the workers move on to good employment and keep working every other weekend at the grocery store.  My Niece's husband works in Finance at a large US Bank.  My DN is pretty far up in doing his series 6 licensing to sell securities.  My SIL said her SIL said that in addition to what they are paid for working weekends, they also get bonus participation.  I am sure your son will be fine, and I have been the parent unsuccessfully trying to convince my kid to take a different path, so I am not judging your parenting or your kid's decision making.  He will probably look back and say yeah, I should not have called in sick for a day of fun.  He is 18.  Luckily it is a full employment situation.  He should land on his feet.

[giramomma]

Jul 13, 2022 10:47:30 GMT -5 bean29 said:

He worked at the regional store that starts with W? My DN and his BIL both work there on weekends as does one of the beauticians for the beauty salon I get my hair done at.  They get paid so much to work weekends at that store, most of the workers move on to good employment and keep working every other weekend at the grocery store.  My Niece's husband works in Finance at a large US Bank.  My DN is pretty far up in doing his series 6 licensing to sell securities.  My SIL said her SIL said that in addition to what they are paid for working weekends, they also get bonus participation.  I am sure your son will be fine, and I have been the parent unsuccessfully trying to convince my kid to take a different path, so I am not judging your parenting or your kid's decision making.  He will probably look back and say yeah, I should not have called in sick for a day of fun.  He is 18.  Luckily it is a full employment situation.  He should land on his feet.

Yup.

Actually he did OK. He did go out and get another job. Not a great one, but it's only two months. He starts training right after he gets back on his trip, and school starts in October for him.

I think DS will land OK. 

Also, he may have had to quit, anyway, because of his trip that he's on.

And, while I am hard on the kids and a total pull yourself up by your bootstraps, I'm also not going to encourage DS to give up maybe a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for international travel so he can make $200.

He is, afterall, only 18. If he was 36, and it was either travel or keep his job, and he chose travel and then got fired, my foot indeed would be up his ass.

[giramomma]

Jul 13, 2022 10:39:29 GMT -5 azucena said:

Or employers could offer reasonable time off policies.  Would save them a ton of training time and paperwork.

Having PTO and not being allowed to use it is the true problem here.

Well, I really can't get over that a grocery store retail place would prefer their workers to come in with a 101 fever and diarrhea and work with the general public for 6-8 hours rather than staying at home.

It's like, really?

[swamp]

Jul 13, 2022 11:20:35 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 13, 2022 10:39:29 GMT -5 azucena said:

Or employers could offer reasonable time off policies.  Would save them a ton of training time and paperwork.

Having PTO and not being allowed to use it is the true problem here.

Well, I really can't get over that a grocery store retail place would prefer their workers to come in with a 101 fever and diarrhea and work with the general public for 6-8 hours rather than staying at home.

It's like, really?

They might as well have him go lick the produce while he's at it 

[swamp]

By the way, 2 months after this thread has started, I still don't want to work. 

[NastyWoman]

I am more rhan just reasonably certain than my retirement is going to stick. I really like this "not working" gig

[NoNamePerson]

Jul 13, 2022 11:18:02 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 13, 2022 10:47:30 GMT -5 bean29 said:

He worked at the regional store that starts with W? My DN and his BIL both work there on weekends as does one of the beauticians for the beauty salon I get my hair done at.  They get paid so much to work weekends at that store, most of the workers move on to good employment and keep working every other weekend at the grocery store.  My Niece's husband works in Finance at a large US Bank.  My DN is pretty far up in doing his series 6 licensing to sell securities.  My SIL said her SIL said that in addition to what they are paid for working weekends, they also get bonus participation.  I am sure your son will be fine, and I have been the parent unsuccessfully trying to convince my kid to take a different path, so I am not judging your parenting or your kid's decision making.  He will probably look back and say yeah, I should not have called in sick for a day of fun.  He is 18.  Luckily it is a full employment situation.  He should land on his feet.

Yup.

Actually he did OK. He did go out and get another job. Not a great one, but it's only two months. He starts training right after he gets back on his trip, and school starts in October for him.

I think DS will land OK. 

Also, he may have had to quit, anyway, because of his trip that he's on.

And, while I am hard on the kids and a total pull yourself up by your bootstraps, I'm also not going to encourage DS to give up maybe a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for international travel so he can make $200.

He is, afterall, only 18. If he was 36, and it was either travel or keep his job, and he chose travel and then got fired, my foot indeed would be up his ass.

  my thoughts exactly when my son was a teen and never regretted it. One day in his "old age" he will remember and thank you for you decisions. 

[nidena]

There are those who want to work and then there are those who have recently been laid off...a venn diagram that is nearly just one circle.

www.linkedin.com/news/story/new-wave-of-layoffs-fueling-anxiety-4830593/

[teen persuasion]

Our board of trustees just decided to constructively cut our pay by cutting our hours here and there (lunch is no longer paid time - we clock out, cut our prep time before opening in half, cut our shift overlap time in half).  My paid hours are 10% less now, so despite a $1/hr raise promised in Jan (.70 then because state minimum wage demanded it for 3 others, .30 for all at new fiscal year July 1 that didn't materialize in our last check), I'll be making less.    The director isn't pleased, either - she's salary, but they want her to clock out for lunch, too, meaning she has to stay later to meet her minimum hours; they also capped her WFH hours at 5/wk, so more hours at work.  She said no raise for her, but I thought $1 raise "for all" meant ALL.

Oh, but now we will be open limited hours some of the "lesser" holidays!  Since we hourly staff don't have paid holidays, either, that might put a few hours back annually.  But since the limited hours means closing early, whoever has the evening shift always loses out.  So it was suggested we trade off, like we do with Saturdays.  So once again, I lose more than gain (the evening shift is half as long, so if I'd normally have the full day shift, but trade, I lose a full shift, but the other clerk gains extra hours).


I would at least understand if it were completely a budget shortage, but it's more the idea it *might* look bad that our budget is 70% wage expenses, compared to others in the system.  News flash - we have a tiny budget for a tiny library - it's always going to be the major expense line.  Comparing trends in the system, all small libraries increased their wage expenses; they had to, min wage increased.  Some larger libraries did drop - but they are large enough that dropping one/two positions (or one senior staff retired and was replaced at a starting wage) is logistically possible; at 3 people, we CAN'T drop anyone.  And the system report comparing stats is hopelessly flawed - numbers from previous years inexplicably carried forward, fat-fingered entries an order of magnitude too large, sums that are larger than they compute to, percent change calculated wrong (dividing by current #, not base #), income sometimes includes state building grants/other times does not, etc.  

[stillmovingforward]

Damn. That's terrible!
I just called my admin person to make sure my new hire got within our pay range. The hires requested wage was below our lower end. Nope, not doing that!
And yes, they got more than they requested. In keeping with our policy of fair pay.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 13, 2022 13:49:59 GMT -5 swamp said:

By the way, 2 months after this thread has started, I still don't want to work. 

ultimately, who really does?
if we could get paid to do nothing, that would be swell.

for the record, i wouldn't do nothing.  i would listen to music maybe six hours a day, and then practice my instrument for another hour or two, and do some writing.  i would use the rest of the time for exercising, eating, and hanging out with friends.

my days would not be boring.  they would be awesome.  my sense of self worth is not tied to labor at all.  in fact, labor diminishes my sense of self worth.

[tallguy]

Jul 13, 2022 13:49:59 GMT -5 swamp said:

By the way, 2 months after this thread has started, I still don't want to work. 

Now approaching five years into retirement, I have not once for even a shadow of a moment had a single fleeting thought that I was missing out on anything....

[finnime]

Jul 20, 2022 0:45:55 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jul 13, 2022 13:49:59 GMT -5 swamp said:

By the way, 2 months after this thread has started, I still don't want to work. 

Now approaching five years into retirement, I have not once for even a shadow of a moment had a single fleeting thought that I was missing out on anything....

And me!


I don't want to work, I just want to bang on the drum all day

[giramomma]

Jul 19, 2022 19:02:39 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

I would at least understand if it were completely a budget shortage, but it's more the idea it *might* look bad that our budget is 70% wage expenses, compared to others in the system.  News flash - we have a tiny budget for a tiny library - it's always going to be the major expense line.  Comparing trends in the system, all small libraries increased their wage expenses; they had to, min wage increased.  Some larger libraries did drop - but they are large enough that dropping one/two positions (or one senior staff retired and was replaced at a starting wage) is logistically possible; at 3 people, we CAN'T drop anyone.  And the system report comparing stats is hopelessly flawed - numbers from previous years inexplicably carried forward, fat-fingered entries an order of magnitude too large, sums that are larger than they compute to, percent change calculated wrong (dividing by current #, not base #), income sometimes includes state building grants/other times does not, etc.  

It does suck.

The cynic in me says, what took them so long to get to the idea that budgets with the majority of expenses being wages look bad/are bad?

My whole university/university system dealt with that over a decade ago.

The private sector, even longer.

[gs11rmb]

teen persuasion why do you stay?