Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 10, 2022 16:37:03 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Feb 10, 2022 16:27:40 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

That's how it was at the old place I worked at, so I mostly didn't take advantage of it, though I took plenty of classes. Plus, if you left before 5 years, you had to pay it back. Current place, it has to be related to current job, or career path, so somewhat the same thing. Pay back if you leave before 3 years is up, so it's better. Only $5k per fiscal year though, which isn't much with the price of tuition.

Even UNMC had a catch they paid the tuition but wouldn't pay fees.  I ended up having to pay $300 for the immunology course out of my pocket.  Was it better than full cost yeah but it was only $300 in fees because it was online.

It actually came out cheaper math wise for me to pay to take statistics at IWCC 100% out of my own pocket than use the tuition benefits to go through UNO after I added up all the fees. 

Definitely pays to read the fine print.  

Given the university already low balls salary I can imagine that for some people those fees were an obstacle to taking advantage of "free" schooling.

When I was working on my PhD, the university allowed me to take 2 classes each semester, which they paid for fully (including fees).  I think that the end of the year, I was getting a full accounting of what benefits I used there (salary, vacation, sick, health insurance, etc) and my tuition was running about $4000-5000/year.  This was taking 2 classes each semester of graduate credit.  Even though the work that I was doing pertained to the lab, it did only peripherally.  I had no restrictions on what classes I could take, so after I finished my doctorate, I was planning on taking other classes that interested me that I just didn't have the time to take as an undergraduate.  That didn't happen, obviously.  Only one (of 3 that gave tuition benefits) employer requested that I take classes relevant to my job.  The only employer that I had that did not have employee benefits was when I was in TX and that was where I got my MS.  Luckily, I had about half that degree transferrable from Northeastern University from my job in Boston, and the rest was on my dime.  Those went on my credit card - which probably cost me 5x what the tuition actually was - by the time I paid it off.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

If I had stayed I think only having to pay fees for the girls' undergraduate degrees would have been invaluable.  For me making peanuts and limited ROI on a master's paying all those fees didn't make any sense.

I would have had to eventually though just to stay in my job.  Course now I am seeing them sneakily put in "preferred skills" things that clearly apply only if you have a PhD.  So I would have ended up getting that master's for nothing.  No way was I getting a PhD to make less than $40k a year as a technician.

[Deleted]

Feb 10, 2022 10:46:28 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I've seen articles now say, it's not really the great resignation, but folks are moving up.

It's going to get worse, as the pool of lower wage workers is going to get smaller as there are less workers, period.

2004 had a low birthrate. It was low enough that teachers were commenting on it in our neck of the woods.

<snip>
We're seeing another birthrate decline during the pandemic.

This (the moving up part) would be encouraging news. Over the years, as more and more people have been shoved into college whether it fit them or not, employers have gone from being willing to hire intelligent people with a good work ethic and a willingness to learn to an insistence upon a college degree in specific fields or, as some people have joked, 5 years of experience working with software that was developed only 3 years ago. Did DS NEED a Math degree to be a claims adjuster? Nope. He needed intelligence, a good work ethic, willingness to learn the business and excellent people skills.

Maybe people who don't meet specific, rigid criteria but have the potential to grow into a job are finally getting a chance.

[susana1954]

Feb 10, 2022 15:08:30 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Feb 9, 2022 18:30:00 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I wonder why she limited the full tuition to just a few programs?  Still a good deal especially for PT and she offers 5K/year for 150 other degrees.   My employer offers 5K/year and it's amazing how few people take advantage of it in a small town with three colleges within 10 minutes of work.  Then again, I'm always shocked how many don't use the 401K too.  I had them pay for most of my degree...which is good since I apparently get no use out of it.

I have worked at only one place that did not offer tuition, the rest of the time I took advantage of what was available to me.  

Like you, I was also surprised that so few take advantage of what’s available.  In fact, I had a discussion with one of my coworkers that where he was at was not going to get better without remaking himself.  I told him this a few years before I went out sick in 2011, I could see the writing on the wall and was doing what I could for myself.  He did get laid off about 5 years afterwards.   

Isn't the problem with tuition assistance is that at many companies, you get reimbursed rather than receive the $$$ upfront?  I had a boyfriend whose son qualified, but he didn't have the money to start.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 10, 2022 18:18:39 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

Feb 10, 2022 15:08:30 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I have worked at only one place that did not offer tuition, the rest of the time I took advantage of what was available to me.  

Like you, I was also surprised that so few take advantage of what’s available.  In fact, I had a discussion with one of my coworkers that where he was at was not going to get better without remaking himself.  I told him this a few years before I went out sick in 2011, I could see the writing on the wall and was doing what I could for myself.  He did get laid off about 5 years afterwards.   

Isn't the problem with tuition assistance is that at many companies, you get reimbursed rather than receive the $$$ upfront?  I had a boyfriend whose son qualified, but he didn't have the money to start.

Only in one place did I get reimbursed.  The other 2, my tuition bill was paid up front.

[azucena]

I don't want to work anymore because the same lack of common sense shown in the news and social media is also affecting workplaces. I swear I can't handle another day of dealing with idiots. Today I had a pre-mtg, client mtg, and post-mtg debrief. Before and after mtgs could have been simple emails. Then spent the afternoon cleaning up admin problems that we have known about since 2013. Everyone has shirked responsibility thus far so I'll own it, clean it up, and take all the credit.

Been waiting 3 days for our lawyer to sign a contract. Had him on the phone Weds to finalize it - should have made him sign it then. Every day I send him another email so I have a paper trail to cover my butt when the client wants to know why a signature takes x days.

Sales guy traveled for the company without being vaxxed. I'm debating calling private hr holiness bc he either lied about being vaxxed or skipped our required report to travel.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Another article on this topic; this one is about care workers. 


What the Conversation Around the "Great Resignation" Leaves Out by Meg Conley

[zibazinski]

The hospital is now offering a minimum of $15 an hour for unskilled labor. Anyone bringing in a new employee gets a nice bonus.

[teen persuasion]

The big flagship university in the city is holding a hiring fair. They are looking to hire up to 80 people.

Cooks, cashiers, and dishwashers.

[TheOtherMe]

The city school board authorized a $500 retention bonus to anyone who was on board February 1 if they stay for the rest of the school year.  Another bonus if they sign a contract and actually report back in the fall.

The state is supposedly paying a $1000 bonus to teachers who worked during the pandemic.

However, no bonuses to health care workers.

[Lizard Queen]

Mar 3, 2022 7:48:27 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

The city school board authorized a $500 retention bonus to anyone who was on board February 1 if they stay for the rest of the school year.  Another bonus if they sign a contract and actually report back in the fall.

The state is supposedly paying a $1000 bonus to teachers who worked during the pandemic.

However, no bonuses to health care workers.

My friend is an RN married to an MD at the hospital. She showed me one of his bonuses pre-pandemic--$65,000. Trust me, they're doing fine. (Significantly)Over $400k/year between the two of them. Maybe the lower tier health workers could use a boost, but they make plenty, and I don't know how we can afford to pay them any more than we already do.

[giramomma]

Starting wage to work in a kroger warehouse is $25/hour. They also have transportation programs available to help get folks there to work.

Starting wage for McDonalds is 17.50.

I think I just have to assume that my unit will be permanently understaffed. For one open position, we've had one failed recruitment effort. We're close to another one. This is a position that will likely pay 60K with excellent benefits ($200/month family health insurance, pension, 25 vacation days right off the bat).

[minnesotapaintlady]

Mar 3, 2022 8:40:36 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Mar 3, 2022 7:48:27 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

The city school board authorized a $500 retention bonus to anyone who was on board February 1 if they stay for the rest of the school year.  Another bonus if they sign a contract and actually report back in the fall.

The state is supposedly paying a $1000 bonus to teachers who worked during the pandemic.

However, no bonuses to health care workers.

My friend is an RN married to an MD at the hospital. She showed me one of his bonuses pre-pandemic--$65,000. Trust me, they're doing fine. (Significantly)Over $400k/year between the two of them. Maybe the lower tier health workers could use a boost, but they make plenty, and I don't know how we can afford to pay them any more than we already do.

Yeah, my 25 year old niece is doing travel nursing and is making bank...like serious money. She's not married and no kids and loves to travel so she's having the time of her life.

[Opti]

Mar 3, 2022 8:40:36 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Mar 3, 2022 7:48:27 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

The city school board authorized a $500 retention bonus to anyone who was on board February 1 if they stay for the rest of the school year.  Another bonus if they sign a contract and actually report back in the fall.

The state is supposedly paying a $1000 bonus to teachers who worked during the pandemic.

However, no bonuses to health care workers.

My friend is an RN married to an MD at the hospital. She showed me one of his bonuses pre-pandemic--$65,000. Trust me, they're doing fine. (Significantly)Over $400k/year between the two of them. Maybe the lower tier health workers could use a boost, but they make plenty, and I don't know how we can afford to pay them any more than we already do.

Maybe folks forget, but the average healthcare worker is likely a certified nursing assistant or works in housekeeping or the kitchen. Staffing wise there are always more aides than there are nurses. While some nurses do per diem shifts, many CNAs and those in maintenance, the kitchen, etc. have a FT job in one facility and work regular PT shifts at another one. They don't do that because they are financially OK, they do it because they need both jobs to be financially semi solvent.

[Opti]

Feb 10, 2022 18:18:39 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

Feb 10, 2022 15:08:30 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I have worked at only one place that did not offer tuition, the rest of the time I took advantage of what was available to me.  

Like you, I was also surprised that so few take advantage of what’s available.  In fact, I had a discussion with one of my coworkers that where he was at was not going to get better without remaking himself.  I told him this a few years before I went out sick in 2011, I could see the writing on the wall and was doing what I could for myself.  He did get laid off about 5 years afterwards.   

Isn't the problem with tuition assistance is that at many companies, you get reimbursed rather than receive the $$$ upfront?  I had a boyfriend whose son qualified, but he didn't have the money to start.

The owners of the healthcare company did reimbursement, not tuition up front. And getting reimbursed took some aides months after classes were completed. Maybe universities and some employers do upfront payments, but this fairly large senior care company does not, even though many do try to use that option to go from aide to LPN or even LPN to RN.

[TheOtherMe]

Mar 3, 2022 8:40:36 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Mar 3, 2022 7:48:27 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

The city school board authorized a $500 retention bonus to anyone who was on board February 1 if they stay for the rest of the school year.  Another bonus if they sign a contract and actually report back in the fall.

The state is supposedly paying a $1000 bonus to teachers who worked during the pandemic.

However, no bonuses to health care workers.

My friend is an RN married to an MD at the hospital. She showed me one of his bonuses pre-pandemic--$65,000. Trust me, they're doing fine. (Significantly)Over $400k/year between the two of them. Maybe the lower tier health workers could use a boost, but they make plenty, and I don't know how we can afford to pay them any more than we already do.

My niece was finally given a bonus in the same amount of the hiring bonus at her hospital.  The hospital also realized if they didn't raise their salary to what the new hires are making, nurses would be leaving.  I do not know how much over she got.  

It's the people who work as CNAs and other lower level positions in both hospitals, medical offices, nursing homes, etc. that could really use the $1000 bonus.  

Health care workers are not only doctors and nurses.  That term encompasses many types of workers.  

The point several observers made was that since the Governor has declared Covid over and no longer mentions it, health care workers were not even considered for a bonus, no matter how bad it looked to health care workers and the public.

[Lizard Queen]

Mar 3, 2022 10:10:00 GMT -5 Opti said:

Mar 3, 2022 8:40:36 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

My friend is an RN married to an MD at the hospital. She showed me one of his bonuses pre-pandemic--$65,000. Trust me, they're doing fine. (Significantly)Over $400k/year between the two of them. Maybe the lower tier health workers could use a boost, but they make plenty, and I don't know how we can afford to pay them any more than we already do.

Maybe folks forget, but the average healthcare worker is likely a certified nursing assistant or works in housekeeping or the kitchen. Staffing wise there are always more aides than there are nurses. While some nurses do per diem shifts, many CNAs and those in maintenance, the kitchen, etc. have a FT job in one facility and work regular PT shifts at another one. They don't do that because they are financially OK, they do it because they need both jobs to be financially semi solvent.

Hence my statement distinguishing between my friend/couple making almost $1/2M per year and lower tier healthcare workers.

[wvugurl26]

I don't discount that aides, techs, housekeeping, etc deserves a bonus. My mom's a RN in the OR. She's got her BSN and multiple certifications and over 25 years experience in surgery and critical care. She's not making six figures. Like many companies, their insurance costs go up yearly and benefits get slimmer.

Travelers outweigh employees in her OR. She's training travelers on every single shift. There's no bonus or thank you for that. No retention bonus for those still working and who have slogged through two years of this crap.

Her DH is retired on disability. No MD salary there. I think it's pretty crappy to compare all nurses to that situation. I do her taxes, I see the W-2.

[stillmovingforward]

My doctor DSIL totally thinks the 'lower tier' Healthcare workers deserve more money. But with for-profit Healthcare, that's not going to happen.

[Opti]

Mar 3, 2022 13:15:22 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

I don't discount that aides, techs, housekeeping, etc deserves a bonus. My mom's a RN in the OR. She's got her BSN and multiple certifications and over 25 years experience in surgery and critical care. She's not making six figures. Like many companies, their insurance costs go up yearly and benefits get slimmer.

Travelers outweigh employees in her OR. She's training travelers on every single shift. There's no bonus or thank you for that. No retention bonus for those still working and who have slogged through two years of this crap.

Her DH is retired on disability. No MD salary there. I think it's pretty crappy to compare all nurses to that situation. I do her taxes, I see the W-2.

One of the LPNs retired when stress caused her collapse on the job. The pandemic has been very hard on anyone working in hospitals and facilities. I've been out for months, and I still have not shaken what happened and how hard I soldiered on.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Around here they cut full time hours for the majority of nurses and made everything "on call".  It was far cheaper and more profitable for hospitals to have large pools of on call staff then pay/give benefits to full time staff.  People left the profession because couldn't get enough hours.

Now, shocker, we have the nursing shortage they started harping on back when I was in high school.

There is a lot broken with our health care system, pay barely scratches the surface.   That needs to change too but if they still find it more profitable to hire everyone as "on call" it doesn't matter what the wage is because you won't get enough hours to make it worth it.

I am curious to see how it shakes out.  There is a lot the pandemic ripped the curtain off of that we can either address or go back to burying our heads in the sand over until the next pandemic.  

[Opti]

Ouch. I don't think that happened in NJ, but I only have connections to part of the hospital and facility system. No one had their hours cut except for lack of demand at the facility. Because of staff getting sick or leaving the job, contract aides and some nurses were used in 2020. Not sure what happened at the local hospitals, but to my knowledge, contract staff were to shore up staffing not to replace it. 

Staffing with employees is hard enough. I hoped they paid their staffing coordinators really well. Because if you are on call, you will have contacts out to other hospitals and facilities. And you will take and work hours for those who come through for you. Nursing is always binge/purge based on numbers of patients or residents currently in the facility. 

[TheOtherMe]

Mar 3, 2022 13:37:09 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Around here they cut full time hours for the majority of nurses and made everything "on call".  It was far cheaper and more profitable for hospitals to have large pools of on call staff then pay/give benefits to full time staff.  People left the profession because couldn't get enough hours.

Now, shocker, we have the nursing shortage they started harping on back when I was in high school.

My niece was laid off when there were no elective surgeries.  Yes she got the $600 a week or whatever it was but she would have preferred working.  She was on call when she first came back.  

At present, they tried to have her on call whenever she wasn't physically at work.  So available 24/7 7 days a week.  She told them absolutely not.  So many people got stressed and left that they are short staffed so have others leave over never being off work.

They have also had the surgical nurses working in other areas where they have to be taught.  She been in surgery over 20 years.  She isn't a bedside nurse.

[Deleted]

I know a nurse that resigned from the VA hospital last year to become a traveling nurse. She’d been at the VA 10 years. She always said she loved working with veterans, but something else was causing her to not be too happy with her job. So she resigned. Working as a traveling nurse pays a lot more.

The part I don’t understand is, say many nurses in a city go to work as traveling nurses. If that city has a shortage of nurses, do they bring in traveling nurses too? Why not just pay the nurses that live in that city more, so they aren’t as tempted by the money to travel and get paid so much more than if they worked where they live?

I have a coworker whose daughter is a nurse, and she’s been all over everywhere during the pandemic, making over 6 figures. I have another coworker whose son and DIL traveled as physical therapists for about 4 years. They finally settled down last year. But when they were traveling for work, they lived lean and earned enough income to pay off all their student loan debt during that time. I can definitely see the appeal.

[TheOtherMe]

Traveling nurses are being brought in to the two hospitals in this city.  They are making bank and some of the regular employees who have stayed with the hospitals are not happy.

[nidena]

Millions of people who left the US job market last year plan to stay away in an act of 'long social distancing,'

Millions of Americans who left the workforce last year plan to stay away indefinitely, signaling a trend of "long social distancing," which is likely to affect White House and
Federal Reserve policy.

The number of those who have dropped out of the workforce and shunned in-person work, shopping, or eating out is estimated to be around three million.

[teen persuasion]

At Easter dinner with the extended family we were discussing jobs, hiring, WFH, etc. My sister knows someone at Paychex - they want to hire, but each time the interviewee learns it's mandatory hybrid/half the week in-office, they say "ohhhh, sorry, no thanks". Hiring personnel are begging upper management to rethink this demand, but nope - we've got to use the leased space we have, must have bodies in the building to justify the cost of the leases! Right, so instead of having no workers in the building because they are mostly WFH, you've got no workers, period. Brilliant plan.

[TheOtherMe]

DN2 is not happy that he is required to go to the office 2 days a week.  He thinks people who were productive the last two years should be allowed to work from home.  Those that were not should be required to work in the office.  

He doesn't miss the social aspect of being in the office at all.  

Yes, it's about the building.  His company owns their building that has been sitting empty except for IT for 2 years.  

[azucena]

Isn't a compromise that new hires need to be in the office during something like a 6 month probationary period plus it in person training is so much more effective.  Then, employees can demonstrate productivity and then transition to work from home.

Meanwhile, my office is going the opposite.  We could choose our hybrid schedule with manager approval.  We're struggling with 3 low performers right now.  One was actually put on performance improvement but still allowed to wfh 4 days a week.

[wvugurl26]

We have a training track for new hires. Past one class when you get to my grade there's nothing for us on a national level. My last in person course produced by work was just after my wedding and my 5th anniversary is this summer. Training past that is 100% composed of conferences and courses from outside companies.

Maybe others have a better balance or make the time anyway but when I was in the office I could absolutely go a week without seeing my boss except in passing in the hallway. It's a never ending series of fires and no one is just sitting and mentoring or training anyone.

And I find most of it be bs anyway with the way our offices are set up. The manager could be in Chicago and have 1 person in that office and the rest are scattered around the region.

Plus I haven't had a single migraine since we left the building. It's toxic. But no one will admit to that.