Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[TheOtherMe]

Before my niece was a full fledged nurse, when surgery is being done on a patient for certain things, the patient's nose has to be broken.  My niece was considered the best nose breaker.  She is still the noise breaker as a nurse.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 7, 2022 9:43:57 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jan 7, 2022 8:56:07 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

We saw that in nursing here. We have at least three nursing colleges and they were churning out enough people the hospitals decided to make the majority of jobs "on call".  Plus it was cheaper to have a rotating pool of on call nurses for hospitals than full time staff.  Only the specialized nurses were getting big bucks and hiring bonuses and full time non shitty shifts.

COVID has changed that. Now they are facing a nursing shortage because people stopped going into it due to the level of competition involved in getting into school and then actually getting a job that gives you enough hours to pay off the loans for the BSN.

So if someone wanted to get into nursing now would be the time.

My exSIL is currently making $5000/week as a traveling surgical tech down in Florida.  I don't get it. Surgical tech is not patient care. They are there for the surgeon--get supplies ready and hand them off,  hold things, keep track of things in surgery. 

You have to be licensed in asceptic technique to be a surgical tech which according to my friend is NOT easy to achieve a lot of people washed out during that stage.  There is a butt load of things that you need to be able to know to just "hand off stuff and hold things"  You have to have an extensive knowledge of surgical tools so you don't end up handing the doctor the wrong one or be able to prevent the doctor from grabbing the wrong one.  You have to know how to handle it so you don't proceed to contaminate everything.

A friend of mine used to be a surgical tech it's more specialized than you think.  Also my mom used to type up the checklists for the surgical technician, it's way more involved than you would ever guess from the outside.  It's not a job you want just anyone doing.

[Deleted]

Jan 7, 2022 11:02:54 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

You have to be licensed in aseptic technique to be a surgical tech which according to my friend is NOT easy to achieve a lot of people washed out during that stage. There is a butt load of things that you need to be able to know to just "hand off stuff and hold things". You have to have an extensive knowledge of surgical tools so you don't end up handing the doctor the wrong one or be able to prevent the doctor from grabbing the wrong one. You have to know how to handle it so you don't proceed to contaminate everything.

I used to watch Grey's Anatomy before it got too crazy and dramatic- shootings, earthquakes, cyber-attacks, not to mention every possible coupling of the characters in the on-call room. I used to think I might have been a good surgeon because I have great small motor co-ordination. Then I watched scenes where the surgical field is flooded by blood coming from a source they can't find and all the machines are beeping. Nope- I'd run screaming from the room. I can see why good OR nurses are highly paid.

[Lizard Queen]

Jan 7, 2022 11:02:54 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jan 7, 2022 9:43:57 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

My exSIL is currently making $5000/week as a traveling surgical tech down in Florida.  I don't get it. Surgical tech is not patient care. They are there for the surgeon--get supplies ready and hand them off,  hold things, keep track of things in surgery. 

You have to be licensed in asceptic technique to be a surgical tech which according to my friend is NOT easy to achieve a lot of people washed out during that stage.  There is a butt load of things that you need to be able to know to just "hand off stuff and hold things"  You have to have an extensive knowledge of surgical tools so you don't end up handing the doctor the wrong one or be able to prevent the doctor from grabbing the wrong one.  You have to know how to handle it so you don't proceed to contaminate everything.

A friend of mine used to be a surgical tech it's more specialized than you think.  Also my mom used to type up the checklists for the surgical technician, it's way more involved than you would ever guess from the outside.  It's not a job you want just anyone doing.

Yes, they are highly trained and have great responsibility. My point was that they're not going to be helping covid patients get over COVID, so I was surprised that that position is also demanding such a high premium.

(I used to talk to my exSIL all the time, daily when she was training, and more after she was employed as one. She gave me all the gory details.)

[wvugurl26]

My mom's OR is very short staffed. Over 50% are travelers. I'm guessing that's not unique.

People quit during covid, people have reconsidered the profession and I wonder if we lost a class or so when nothing was able to be in person.

[formerroomate99]

Jan 7, 2022 9:12:22 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jan 7, 2022 7:48:33 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Trades are often hard on the body, though.
The current hot jobs have everything to do with supply and demand. If everyone decided to steer towards the trades, they'd be underpaid, too. I saw that a bit with IT, back when I took classes.

There's a lot of high paid, white collar people on this board saying more people should work the trades.

Who wants to climb electrical poles in thunderstorms or crawling through bat infested blown-in insulation in people's attics when it's 100 degrees to run electrical when there are 6 figure work from home jobs?  I mean, I'm sure there are people who would actually prefer that kind of work, but when choosing a career  it's hard to get past the allure of physically easy, and high paying. Most of the people working production here encourage their kids to go to school to be the IT guy or the engineer or the account manager instead of what they do.  Those are the folks with the nice cars in the parking that come and go as they please and aren't bound to the clock with someone watching over them all day.

If your job training costs are minimal and you’re making six figures by the time you’re 21, then it would be pretty straightforward to put yourself in a position where you can retire at 50.

In the corporate world, I saw all kinds of people with college degrees spending their days doing repetitive tasks I could train my 13 year old to do. They would never make the big bucks because they weren’t worth it. When one of those folks got laid off, I would spend a day coding and automate 80% of their jobs, something they could have done themselves if they had been willing and able to learn the same basic skills I had taught myself. Most of these guys were bored stiff with their jobs, but if you got them talking about their latest home improvement project, their eyes would light up.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jan 11, 2022 14:56:22 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Jan 7, 2022 9:12:22 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

There's a lot of high paid, white collar people on this board saying more people should work the trades.

Who wants to climb electrical poles in thunderstorms or crawling through bat infested blown-in insulation in people's attics when it's 100 degrees to run electrical when there are 6 figure work from home jobs?  I mean, I'm sure there are people who would actually prefer that kind of work, but when choosing a career  it's hard to get past the allure of physically easy, and high paying. Most of the people working production here encourage their kids to go to school to be the IT guy or the engineer or the account manager instead of what they do.  Those are the folks with the nice cars in the parking that come and go as they please and aren't bound to the clock with someone watching over them all day.

If your job training costs are minimal and you’re making six figures by the time you’re 21, then it would be pretty straightforward to put yourself in a position where you can retire at 50.

No doubt, but most people going into the trades aren't making anywhere near 6 figures at 21.  I'm surrounded by people working in the trades.  My four brothers, two make high end furniture and cabinets, one is a CNC programmer, and the other is a welder.  None of them are making close to 6 figures and they're all in their 40's/50's.   My stepdad wasn't making that as a crane operator when he retired at 55 either.

The big money is in starting your own electrical or plumbing business, but you're not doing that right out of school.

[giramomma]

Jan 11, 2022 14:56:22 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

In the corporate world, I saw all kinds of people with college degrees spending their days doing repetitive tasks I could train my 13 year old to do. They would never make the big bucks because they weren’t worth it. When one of those folks got laid off, I would spend a day coding and automate 80% of their jobs, something they could have done themselves if they had been willing and able to learn the same basic skills I had taught myself. Most of these guys were bored stiff with their jobs, but if you got them talking about their latest home improvement project, their eyes would light up.

What's the incentive for them to apply themselves other than keeping their job?

[TheOtherMe]

Iowa is going to put people back to work by changing the qualifications for CNAs and teachers.  We are going to put them on a track so that you can be student teaching as a senior in high school.  

To keep people in Iowa, the gov wants to pay a bonus of $1000 to prison workers and teachers.  Nothing for health care workers.  

[nidena]

Jan 11, 2022 20:31:26 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Iowa is going to put people back to work by changing the qualifications for CNAs and teachers.  We are going to put them on a track so that you can be student teaching as a senior in high school.  

To keep people in Iowa, the gov wants to pay a bonus of $1000 to prison workers and teachers.  Nothing for health care workers.  

With how many times they've reduced the number of hospitals and care facilities in Iowa, it's not like paying them would be a huge expense.  Medical professionals are like 1/10 of 1% in that state.  Cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[TheOtherMe]

In her Condition of the State address last night, neither health care workers, Covid, etc. were mentioned.  

As far as she is concerned Covid is long over.  She offered no monetary assistance to medical facilities but has approved grants for people to retrofit their homes so they can be used as child care centers. 

She is a moron and so is the Iowa GQP.

She plans to cut unemployment further because people don't need to be sitting on their couches watching tv.

[pulmonarymd]

Didn't Iowa approve unemployment benefits for those who got fired for refusing vaccination? If so, is she cutting their benefits too?

[TheOtherMe]

Jan 12, 2022 10:53:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Didn't Iowa approve unemployment benefits for those who got fired for refusing vaccination? If so, is she cutting their benefits too?

Yes that was approved.  That was not mentioned in the speech but I would think those people are not just sitting on their sofas.  They are proving a point.  Nothing remotely related to Covid was mentioned. 

She wants to cut benefits from 26 weeks to 16 weeks.  Also require people to accept any "reasonable" job.  Define "reasonable" 

Lots of questions.  Democrats are saying this morning that since Iowa accepts federal funds to pay unemployment the number of weeks cannot be reduced.

[formerroomate99]

Jan 11, 2022 17:24:16 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jan 11, 2022 14:56:22 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

In the corporate world, I saw all kinds of people with college degrees spending their days doing repetitive tasks I could train my 13 year old to do. They would never make the big bucks because they weren’t worth it. When one of those folks got laid off, I would spend a day coding and automate 80% of their jobs, something they could have done themselves if they had been willing and able to learn the same basic skills I had taught myself. Most of these guys were bored stiff with their jobs, but if you got them talking about their latest home improvement project, their eyes would light up.

What's the incentive for them to apply themselves other than keeping their job?

Well first off, keeping your job when you’re living in a place where the economy is crap should be a pretty big incentive, especially when you have a family to support.

But the other big incentive is being able to get a better job down the line. I’m making three times what I made at that job, and 90% of my success has to do with the fact that I have a track record of quickly learning new skills. More than once, I’ve gotten well-paying jobs working on some software tool I hadn’t even heard of, because the employer had every reason to believe I would get up to speed quickly. And the fact that I have a list of skills as long as my arm has gotten me quite a few jobs too. People on this board talk endlessly about our a college degree and whatever makes you an innovative thinker. The fact that it doesn’t has kept me employed for 20+ years

[nidena]

‘Great Retirement’ in U.S. Is Driven by Older Female Baby Boomers

[stillmovingforward]

Some people are not that high on the bell curve either. They just can do the basic you ask and no more. Not everyone can be a high achiever and it's not always their fault. Even though our old puritan cultural ways says it is.

[formerroomate99]

Jan 11, 2022 15:12:07 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jan 11, 2022 14:56:22 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

If your job training costs are minimal and you’re making six figures by the time you’re 21, then it would be pretty straightforward to put yourself in a position where you can retire at 50.

No doubt, but most people going into the trades aren't making anywhere near 6 figures at 21.  I'm surrounded by people working in the trades.  My four brothers, two make high end furniture and cabinets, one is a CNC programmer, and the other is a welder.  None of them are making close to 6 figures and they're all in their 40's/50's.   My stepdad wasn't making that as a crane operator when he retired at 55 either.

The big money is in starting your own electrical or plumbing business, but you're not doing that right out of school.

OK I believe you. But don’t you agree that starting your career two years earlier and without five or six figured that is a huge advantage from a financial perspective?

[Deleted]

Jan 13, 2022 11:39:15 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

Some people are not that high on the bell curve either. They just can do the basic you ask and no more. Not everyone can be a high achiever and it's not always their fault. Even though our old puritan cultural ways says it is.

I agree.  It's something I always try to keep in mind when I think of my own situation.  It's aprtly what you were born with and what gets nurtured (or doesn't). Sadly, a lot of the jobs that used to pay well if you had a strong back, a good work ethic and could follow directions have disappeared.  And some people just don't "get" computers, which are a necessary part of most jobs.  My own dear mother never did even though Dad was very patient about trying to teach her.  She was an intelligent woman but her brain just didn't work that way.

[formerroomate99]

Jan 13, 2022 11:39:15 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

Some people are not that high on the bell curve either. They just can do the basic you ask and no more. Not everyone can be a high achiever and it's not always their fault. Even though our old puritan cultural ways says it is.

And that should also be a big factor in career choices. Plumbing technology changes I’m sure, but not anywhere near the rate of change you see in computer tools for business. The house I lived in in the 1980s had copper pipes, as dead as does the house I live in now, but virtually nobody is using most of the tools are used 20 years ago.

The college educated people whose jobs I automated weren’t all stupid, but they were so resistant to change and so unwilling to learn new skills, that It was easy to distinguish myself.

[stillmovingforward]

For what it's worth, my trades-only highly skilled DH only ever made a high of $56,000 per year in a high cost of living area and rarely had decent medical. He was a hard worker who learned everything about his trade that he could. At 50+, his body is so damaged that he can no longer work. In anything. It's a good thing he has me to support him.
He encouraged all of his kids to go to college. So they didn't end up hurting like him.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jan 13, 2022 11:41:31 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Jan 11, 2022 15:12:07 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

No doubt, but most people going into the trades aren't making anywhere near 6 figures at 21.  I'm surrounded by people working in the trades.  My four brothers, two make high end furniture and cabinets, one is a CNC programmer, and the other is a welder.  None of them are making close to 6 figures and they're all in their 40's/50's.   My stepdad wasn't making that as a crane operator when he retired at 55 either.

The big money is in starting your own electrical or plumbing business, but you're not doing that right out of school.

OK I believe you. But don’t you agree that starting your career two years earlier and without five or six figured that is a huge advantage from a financial perspective?

Well...maybe.  I think that's hard to say.  It really depends on what career choices you're talking about here.  I mean, a surgeon can take on huge amounts of debt and start a decade later and catch up to the welder in no time.

But, what if there is no debt?  Even the bleakest articles have the percentage of students taking out loans at around 30% and the average debt amount being about the cost of a new car...so not horrible.

www.investopedia.com/student-loan-debt-2019-statistics-and-outlook-4772007

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jan 13, 2022 12:13:10 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

For what it's worth, my trades-only highly skilled DH only ever made a high of $56,000 per year in a high cost of living area and rarely had decent medical. He was a hard worker who learned everything about his trade that he could. At 50+, his body is so damaged that he can no longer work. In anything. It's a good thing he has me to support him.
He encouraged all of his kids to go to college. So they didn't end up hurting like him.

This was my stepdad.  He had my mom so he could retire early. 

FWIW, the tradespeople I know are by far the hardest working people around without a doubt. 

[Deleted]

Jan 13, 2022 12:13:10 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

For what it's worth, my trades-only highly skilled DH only ever made a high of $56,000 per year in a high cost of living area and rarely had decent medical. He was a hard worker who learned everything about his trade that he could. At 50+, his body is so damaged that he can no longer work. In anything. It's a good thing he has me to support him.
He encouraged all of his kids to go to college. So they didn't end up hurting like him.

I didn’t want my children to do the kind of work I do either.

The nature of the jobs mean that you are very likely to end up with at least one musculoskeletal injury if you work there for more than a few years. Likely several injuries during your career, and some of them can become chronic conditions that may or may not be able to be corrected with surgery. Even if surgery can “fix” it, some conditions will just occur again if you’re still doing the same kind of work. And who wants to need surgery anyway?

I know those are facts, not just my opinions, because about 15 years ago I was part of an ergonomics team at my facility and we had access to hard data concerning injuries among our fellow employees, locally and nationally. Our purpose was to find ways to improve ergonomic risk factors of any job on the workroom floor, to help reduce musculoskeletal injuries. We were trained and educated on the risk factors and how they were pertinent to the jobs. Employees could anonymously submit suggestions and problems and we would investigate each one and try to find solutions or something that could at least help decrease the risk of injury. The teams were all across the nation, and some good things came out of our work. Some of the things different teams came up with and got approved at their facilities were implemented nationwide. At that time, my employer was spending $4 BILLION dollars/year on such injuries. They scrapped the program and the teams after 3 or 4 years. I’m sure they are spending much more than $4billion/year now. They were already dealing with an aging workforce back then, because they were not hiring much. That has not turned around yet, even though they have hired more people in recent years. Us old folks are still the majority and we’ve just gotten even older and sustained more injuries.

A lot of people think we are overpaid, but maybe they don’t know or consider the toll the job takes on our families because of our work schedules, the toll that working in what is often a toxic environment takes on our mental health, and the toll the job takes on our physical health if we work there long enough to retire.

Physically demanding jobs are something serious in regards to the long term effects on the body. Now, a lot of the young people that get hired, quickly decide that they don’t want to deal with the negative aspects of the job and quit. I don’t really blame them.

[TheOtherMe]

My many factory working cousins have all either retired early on disability or retired at the first opportunity because their bodies are shot,  

[Opti]

Jan 13, 2022 11:38:49 GMT -5 nidena said:

‘Great Retirement’ in U.S. Is Driven by Older Female Baby Boomers

Interesting a bit, but I wish these article writers could stick to the obvious. People over 65 retired at greater rates than those under 65. Instead of we are focusing on the first ten years of the baby boom and ignoring that its different for the last eight years of the baby boom.
Its retirement age. It is not a generational thing silly article writer. 

We are in a pandemic. Not weird that more people would retire than expected.

[Opti]

Jan 13, 2022 17:58:04 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

My many factory working cousins have all either retired early on disability or retired at the first opportunity because their bodies are shot,  

And on the opposite end you have President Biden, 79, and Mitch McConnell Senate minority leader also 79. Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the House is 80.

[Deleted]

Jan 13, 2022 17:39:22 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Physically demanding jobs are something serious in regards to the long term effects on the body. Now, a lot of the young people that get hired, quickly decide that they don’t want to deal with the negative aspects of the job and quit. I don’t really blame them.

This is especially true in a lot of former factory towns. People worked for years at jobs that beat their bodies up and the company pretty much chewed them up and spit them out when they could no longer work- and in many cases just closed down. The jobs left are mostly too physically demanding if you already have problems walking, standing, lifting- retail and hospitality where you're on your feet all day, or (shudder) Amazon warehouses. See or read "Nomadland" about the hordes of people, mostly senior citizens, who live in tiny RVs and work at whatever Amazon warehouse is hiring. I think I'm in good shape except for my slightly leaky heart valves and that work would do me in.

And not everyone can go retrain with courses in computer coding.

Jan 13, 2022 17:39:22 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

We were trained and educated on the risk factors and how they were pertinent to the jobs. Employees could anonymously submit suggestions and problems and we would investigate each one and try to find solutions or something that could at least help decrease the risk of injury. The teams were all across the nation, and some good things came out of our work. Some of the things different teams came up with and got approved at their facilities were implemented nationwide. At that time, my employer was spending $4 BILLION dollars/year on such injuries. They scrapped the program and the teams after 3 or 4 years. I’m sure they are spending much more than $4 billion/year now. They were already dealing with an aging workforce back then, because they were not hiring much. That has not turned around yet, even though they have hired more people in recent years. Us old folks are still the majority and we’ve just gotten even older and sustained more injuries.

I wonder WTH they were thinking. Companies this size usually self-insure workers' comp losses, with some excess insurance to protect them against catastrophic claims or a year with a lot of bad claims. They can't buy first-dollar (no deductible coverage)- insurers want them to have skin in the game. A loss prevention program should save them $$$.

[azucena]

Pink - mind sharing what it is you do? I haven't been able to piece it together. PM if you want or tell me to buzz off. I'm just genuinely curious.

[Deleted]

Jan 13, 2022 19:13:25 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jan 13, 2022 17:39:22 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Physically demanding jobs are something serious in regards to the long term effects on the body. Now, a lot of the young people that get hired, quickly decide that they don’t want to deal with the negative aspects of the job and quit. I don’t really blame them.

This is especially true in a lot of former factory towns. People worked for years at jobs that beat their bodies up and the company pretty much chewed them up and spit them out when they could no longer work- and in many cases just closed down. The jobs left are mostly too physically demanding if you already have problems walking, standing, lifting- retail and hospitality where you're on your feet all day, or (shudder) Amazon warehouses. See or read "Nomadland" about the hordes of people, mostly senior citizens, who live in tiny RVs and work at whatever Amazon warehouse is hiring. I think I'm in good shape except for my slightly leaky heart valves and that work would do me in.

And not everyone can go retrain with courses in computer coding.

Jan 13, 2022 17:39:22 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

We were trained and educated on the risk factors and how they were pertinent to the jobs. Employees could anonymously submit suggestions and problems and we would investigate each one and try to find solutions or something that could at least help decrease the risk of injury. The teams were all across the nation, and some good things came out of our work. Some of the things different teams came up with and got approved at their facilities were implemented nationwide. At that time, my employer was spending $4 BILLION dollars/year on such injuries. They scrapped the program and the teams after 3 or 4 years. I’m sure they are spending much more than $4 billion/year now. They were already dealing with an aging workforce back then, because they were not hiring much. That has not turned around yet, even though they have hired more people in recent years. Us old folks are still the majority and we’ve just gotten even older and sustained more injuries.

I wonder WTH they were thinking. Companies this size usually self-insure workers' comp losses, with some excess insurance to protect them against catastrophic claims or a year with a lot of bad claims. They can't buy first-dollar (no deductible coverage)- insurers want them to have skin in the game. A loss prevention program should save them $$$.

I work for the federal government, if that helps any.

When I had a workman’s comp claim for my shoulder, I found out that many orthopedists in the area won’t even take us as patients on workman’s comp claims because they don’t want to deal with all the paperwork and potential headaches. 

Also, when I was looking into disability insurance since it’s not offered through my employer, I learned that some of the major companies won’t deal with us either because of where we work. It may have changed now, but I specifically remember Aflac being one of those companies at the time.

I guess it’s common knowledge in certain industries that we can be difficult and/or costly to deal with because of our jobs and who we work for.

[wvugurl26]

I had a coworker who couldn't get a short term disability policy because we worked for the federal govt and were not offered any such policies through work. And we have desk jobs.