Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[formerroomate99]

Nov 11, 2021 15:49:23 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

My DH's company and several others around here the very first thing they did come March 2020 was start pressuring people 55+ to start looking into retirement or be laid off.   They did that based on the fact that they are usually higher salary and figured they would cost them the most in regards to health insurance due to COVID risk factors.  So getting them out the door was going to help them keep those record profits.

Absolutely shocking many of them decided screw it and got off the hamster wheel.  I am sure employers were sitting around assuming they would all come groveling back (and hopefully for lower salaries) once this blew over.

The alarm bells have been sounding for awhile that our birth rates aren't high enough to keep up with the people exiting the work force.   2020 came along and sped up that timeline.  It's employer's faults they never bothered to prepare for the inevitable.  

It’s amazing how shortsighted employers can be. In tech, the same people who spent 2000-2014 flat out refusing to hire an entry-level employees and wouldn’t lift a finger to help their employees learn new skills are now crying and whining that they don’t have people with 10 years experience beating down their doors.

[nidena]

Nov 16, 2021 18:20:48 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Nov 8, 2021 19:36:28 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

This terrifies my husband--driverless cars in general. 

I remember a horrible movie a few decades back about a Mack truck that didn’t have a driver. Basically a truck Christine.

Maximum Overdrive from the 1980s?  It was based on a short story by Steven King called Trucks.

[nidena]

Let's add the hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers who reached their breaking point and left; and some who were laid off.

[swamp]

I was just reading an article in the WaPo. 100,000 people died of an overdose during the pandemic. OD victims tend toward the younger, so there’s a bunch out of the labor market.

[nidena]

Nov 17, 2021 12:52:05 GMT -5 swamp said:

I was just reading an article in the WaPo. 100,000 people died of an overdose during the pandemic. OD victims tend toward the younger, so there’s a bunch out of the labor market.

That'll be a bunch not contributing towards the future labor force, too. 

[pulmonarymd]

True, but a good proportion of those were not likely working due to their addiction. Ask me how I know.

[Miss Tequila]

Nov 17, 2021 12:52:05 GMT -5 swamp said:

I was just reading an article in the WaPo. 100,000 people died of an overdose during the pandemic. OD victims tend toward the younger, so there’s a bunch out of the labor market.

I have two cousins who have OD several times but didn’t die (yet). Either are contributing members of society. Both have spent time in jail (one is still in jail). I doubt that a huge chunk of those that OD and died were gainfully employed

[Miss Tequila]

Nov 17, 2021 13:56:32 GMT -5 nidena said:

Nov 17, 2021 12:52:05 GMT -5 swamp said:

I was just reading an article in the WaPo. 100,000 people died of an overdose during the pandemic. OD victims tend toward the younger, so there’s a bunch out of the labor market.

That'll be a bunch not contributing towards the future labor force, too. 

I’m going the other way. I’m going to guess that it’s a bunch of people that won’t wind up in jail

[Opti]

Nov 17, 2021 14:04:35 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

True, but a good proportion of those were not likely working due to their addiction. Ask me how I know.

Work experience at the hospital?

[Deleted]

Nov 16, 2021 18:29:43 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

It’s amazing how shortsighted employers can be. In tech, the same people who spent 2000-2014 flat out refusing to hire an entry-level employees and wouldn’t lift a finger to help their employees learn new skills are now crying and whining that they don’t have people with 10 years experience beating down their doors.

I agree. DH called it the "plaid shoelace syndrome". Applicants MUST have plaid shoelaces. No other candidates will be considered. The running joke in IT was that they wanted 5 years of experience with software that was developed 3 years ago. Companies used to be willing to train bright, motivated people who didn't have the domain knowledge. Then they just started demanding degrees in very specific fields. It's coming back to bite them.

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 17, 2021 14:59:59 GMT -5 Opti said:

Nov 17, 2021 14:04:35 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

True, but a good proportion of those were not likely working due to their addiction. Ask me how I know.

Work experience at the hospital?

And the same ones come in like a revolving door until they do not make it that one time. Sure, some people overdose doing it on a lark. But most overdose deaths are in chronic users, most of whom are not a big factor in the workforce. Truly a sad phenomenon

[swamp]

Nov 17, 2021 14:04:35 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

True, but a good proportion of those were not likely working due to their addiction. Ask me how I know.

I’ve been in the legal system for 25 years. Many of them work in fast food and construction. Ask me how I know

Also, there has been an increase of ODs due to coke or heroin laced with fentanyl.

[swamp]

Nov 17, 2021 14:35:33 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Nov 17, 2021 12:52:05 GMT -5 swamp said:

I was just reading an article in the WaPo. 100,000 people died of an overdose during the pandemic. OD victims tend toward the younger, so there’s a bunch out of the labor market.

I have two cousins who have OD several times but didn’t die (yet). Either are contributing members of society. Both have spent time in jail (one is still in jail). I doubt that a huge chunk of those that OD and died were gainfully employed

You’d be surprised. Addiction doesn’t discriminate. Plenty of gainfully employed people hide their addictions.

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 17, 2021 15:44:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

Nov 17, 2021 14:35:33 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I have two cousins who have OD several times but didn’t die (yet). Either are contributing members of society. Both have spent time in jail (one is still in jail). I doubt that a huge chunk of those that OD and died were gainfully employed

You’d be surprised. Addiction doesn’t discriminate. Plenty of gainfully employed people hide their addictions.

True, but most who do illegal narcotics cannot keep it controlled. Legal narcotics was easier, because you could get a consistent supply with less risks. As you know, most of the overdoses are from other drugs laced with fentanyl

Alcoholics are a different breed. They can be productive at work for years, That is amazing, given how much some of them drink. But it was easier to avoid withdrawal. Just go for the 3 martini lunch. The are no 3 bag lunches for narcotic addicts. You also see many more old alcoholics compared to old narcotic users.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Alcoholics amaze me. I dated a guy (of course...just let it go), that could and would down crazy amounts of beer every night, then be up at 5am for work and on the weekends was out mowing the lawn at the crack of dawn, but come 5 or 6pm he was down to the bar until 11 or so.  He's been working construction with a union for many years now probably 30 or more and will retire with a nice pension which he will spend all on pull tabs and beer.

[nidena]

Nov 17, 2021 14:36:11 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Nov 17, 2021 13:56:32 GMT -5 nidena said:

That'll be a bunch not contributing towards the future labor force, too. 

I’m going the other way. I’m going to guess that it’s a bunch of people that won’t wind up in jail

I meant their offspring not the people that actually OD'd.

[TheOtherMe]

Nov 17, 2021 16:04:12 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Nov 17, 2021 15:44:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

You’d be surprised. Addiction doesn’t discriminate. Plenty of gainfully employed people hide their addictions.

True, but most who do illegal narcotics cannot keep it controlled. Legal narcotics was easier, because you could get a consistent supply with less risks. As you know, most of the overdoses are from other drugs laced with fentanyl

Alcoholics are a different breed. They can be productive at work for years, That is amazing, given how much some of them drink. But it was easier to avoid withdrawal. Just go for the 3 martini lunch. The are no 3 bag lunches for narcotic addicts. You also see many more old alcoholics compared to old narcotic users.

My friend's 19 year old granddaughter couldn't control it.  She overdosed about 2 months ago now on some fentanyl laced drug.  Had been out of jail less than 48 hours when her mother found her dead.

She had finally agreed to a treatment center but parents couldn't find a bed.

[NoNamePerson]

Nov 17, 2021 16:46:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Alcoholics amaze me. I dated a guy (of course...just let it go), that could and would down crazy amounts of beer every night, then be up at 5am for work and on the weekends was out mowing the lawn at the crack of dawn, but come 5 or 6pm he was down to the bar until 11 or so.  He's been working construction with a union for many years now probably 30 or more and will retire with a nice pension which he will spend all on pull tabs and beer.

5 o’clock drunks is the name for people like this. My mother was one! Never missed a day of work   Of course wasn’t doing construction but still the same story as your guy! She could probably drink him under the table. 

[Deleted]

Nov 17, 2021 16:04:12 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Alcoholics are a different breed. They can be productive at work for years, That is amazing, given how much some of them drink. But it was easier to avoid withdrawal. Just go for the 3 martini lunch. The are no 3 bag lunches for narcotic addicts. You also see many more old alcoholics compared to old narcotic users.

In the 1970s I worked for a firm that had relocated its HQ from lower Manhattan to a suburb in NJ with nothing but forest around the building. One guy who was formerly based in NYC where there were bars on every corner used to make visits to his car out in the parking lot. We had a narrow back staircase and if I passed him I could smell whatever the by-product was (acetone?) coming out of his pores.

[Deleted]

Nov 17, 2021 16:46:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Alcoholics amaze me. I dated a guy (of course...just let it go), that could and would down crazy amounts of beer every night, then be up at 5am for work and on the weekends was out mowing the lawn at the crack of dawn, but come 5 or 6pm he was down to the bar until 11 or so.  He's been working construction with a union for many years now probably 30 or more and will retire with a nice pension which he will spend all on pull tabs and beer.

Functioning alcoholics. I know some. The cure for a hangover is “more of the hair of the dog that bit you”. And the ones I know are so “good” at what they do that you can’t tell the difference between when they are drunk or sober.

[jerseygirl]

So why is fentanyl put into drugs? Does it make the drug more pleasurable? Stronger but then that’s a narrow path to OD
Fentanyl is effective in anesthesia

[pulmonarymd]

Better high

[Deleted]

Nov 17, 2021 18:49:50 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Better high

But it still doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint to me, with what little I know about it.

If you lace your drugs with fentanyl and your customers die, first of all, there goes your repeat customers. Since they’re dead, they won’t buy anything else from you. And why would your other living customers not be wary because all your other customers are dying, and find a different plug?

[nidena]

Nov 17, 2021 19:22:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Nov 17, 2021 18:49:50 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Better high

But it still doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint to me, with what little I know about it.

If you lace your drugs with fentanyl and your customers die, first of all, there goes your repeat customers. Since they’re dead, they won’t buy anything else from you. And why would your other living customers not be wary because all your other customers are dying, and find a different plug?

The high outweighs the fear for the ones who are addicted and there's always more getting addicted each day.

Thank you to many doctors who didn't know about painkillers.

[Miss Tequila]

Nov 17, 2021 15:44:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

Nov 17, 2021 14:35:33 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I have two cousins who have OD several times but didn’t die (yet). Either are contributing members of society. Both have spent time in jail (one is still in jail). I doubt that a huge chunk of those that OD and died were gainfully employed

You’d be surprised. Addiction doesn’t discriminate. Plenty of gainfully employed people hide their addictions.

In the beginning they can keep it under wraps. A heroin addiction is not something you can usually hide and continue being a productive member of society. Both of my cousins were able to hide it for awhile and then spiraled out of control

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 17, 2021 19:22:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Nov 17, 2021 18:49:50 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Better high

But it still doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint to me, with what little I know about it.

If you lace your drugs with fentanyl and your customers die, first of all, there goes your repeat customers. Since they’re dead, they won’t buy anything else from you. And why would your other living customers not be wary because all your other customers are dying, and find a different plug?

Cause after a point it isn't about being high you need it just to function. Your body adjusts it's homeostasis and freaks out if you aren't using.

Caffeine is an excellent socially acceptable example of this. You actually can't function without that coffee because your body has adjusted it's own performance to compensate. That's why you are a miserable human being without it.

And that's why it is not so simple as ordering someone to just not do it. That's why someone else dying doesn't matter.

The neuroscience on addiction is fascinating and has really changed my worldview on the subject.

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 17, 2021 19:22:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Nov 17, 2021 18:49:50 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Better high

But it still doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint to me, with what little I know about it.

If you lace your drugs with fentanyl and your customers die, first of all, there goes your repeat customers. Since they’re dead, they won’t buy anything else from you. And why would your other living customers not be wary because all your other customers are dying, and find a different plug?

You are applying logic to an illogical process

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 17, 2021 19:30:47 GMT -5 nidena said:

Nov 17, 2021 19:22:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

But it still doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint to me, with what little I know about it.

If you lace your drugs with fentanyl and your customers die, first of all, there goes your repeat customers. Since they’re dead, they won’t buy anything else from you. And why would your other living customers not be wary because all your other customers are dying, and find a different plug?

The high outweighs the fear for the ones who are addicted and there's always more getting addicted each day.

Thank you to many doctors who didn't know about painkillers.

That’s not entirely true. Many factors went into the crisis. There is an excellent series on Hulu called dopesivk that shows how this came about

[Opti]

Nov 17, 2021 19:34:24 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Nov 17, 2021 19:22:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

But it still doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint to me, with what little I know about it.

If you lace your drugs with fentanyl and your customers die, first of all, there goes your repeat customers. Since they’re dead, they won’t buy anything else from you. And why would your other living customers not be wary because all your other customers are dying, and find a different plug?

Cause after a point it isn't about being high you need it just to function. Your body adjusts it's homeostasis and freaks out if you aren't using.

Caffeine is an excellent socially acceptable example of this. You actually can't function without that coffee because your body has adjusted it's own performance to compensate. That's why you are a miserable human being without it.

And that's why it is not so simple as ordering someone to just not do it. That's why someone else dying doesn't matter.

The neuroscience on addiction is fascinating and has really changed my worldview on the subject.

Any idea at what level of coffee drinking that is? I have never had even a cup of coffee every day of the week. 

[wvugurl26]

The manufacturers and distributors are to blame for the opioid epidemic. They swore to God and everything you might hold holy that it wasn't addictive and could be used long term with no consequences. They were wrong. But being truthful would have dampened the sales numbers.

In terms of illegal drugs laced with fentanyl, I would say many dealers don't know. They are just buying from somewhere else. I doubt many of them are mixing up the stuff themselves. It's so deadly they'd probably kill themselves. It's coming from China. And they keep changing the formula slightly so it's not a banned import.

Pre covid, the sheriff back home put out an alert telling people to wipe down the grocery cart handle before using it. They were saying these people had enough drug residue under their fingernails to kill a child.

ETA: the story I've heard from the law enforcement side of my agency is its super cheap and enables them to stretch the cocaine/heroin further.