Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[countrygirl2]

One of our renters got a dollar an hour raise but he is still working reduced hours so not helping him much.

[finnime]

Nov 2, 2021 23:24:21 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Nov 2, 2021 17:44:33 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

I saw the same thing on Facebook that pink did. I didn't think about the PPP loans. My personal thought is these businesses can't find employees to work for the wages and terms they want. I'm not seeing many help wanted signs for jobs I'd consider to be good ones. They want to pay as little as possible and schedule for as few hours as they can get away with.

We've talked many times on the boards that they only want to schedule part time hours and they schedule it so poorly that it's nearly impossible for a person to get another job and string together full time hours. They've done this for years to hold their labor costs down and now people are pushing back.

I drove by one of the local places the other day that's screaming loudly online that no one wants to work. There was a shiny Maserati in the owner's parking spot.

Another thing I'm seeing at least once a month locally is posts from frantic parents seeking childcare because their daycare is closing. The remaining ones have waiting lists especially for under 2.

I was talking to a coworker yesterday. He ran into someone who's kids used to go to the same school as his. The acquaintance moved her kids to private school in April 2020 when they announced at least six more weeks of online schooling. She said that she and her husband couldn't work from home. What happens in families that can't afford that tuition?

My personal theory is that they are going to scream lack of employees and have acceptable decreased service for as long as possible.  If hotels can get around not doing up rooms for a 4 day stay, they have gotten the public to accept a lower grade of service than norm.  They hire less staff, but still are getting customers and making money.  Airlines are doing this too, and so are restaurants.

  This is one of the ways the pandemic has changed our lives, I believe. We'll see emerging an implementation of "first-class" in areas where there had always been just one level of service. And people will pay more for the first-class experience, or the usual rate which will now be advertised as a discount for a lower level of service.

It will be true in hotels, restaurants, gyms, shopping (concierge service or regular), healthcare. It has been true or emerging true for travel modes--air, train, ship, and for schools, for quite a while now.

[CCL]

Nov 2, 2021 21:04:02 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

DN3 manages a Dairy Queen.  He has trouble finding help, but it isn't full time and I would not want to work there.

When I was at my doctor's office last week, I was told they are short of help and they are advertising sign on bonuses.  However, certain skills are needed for those positions.

My niece, who is a surgical nurse, did get a raise and the sign on bonus even though she has been with the hospital for at least 15 years.

I saw a billboard the other day advertising a $40k sign-on bonus for nurses.

[teen persuasion]

A few odds and ends of anecdotes.

DS5 applied all over for a summer job. He either never heard back, or was told to wait until x date 6 weeks out when they'd have a mass hiring. Never heard back, summer's long over.

Grocery store is hiring, but only for overnight shift, must be 18 - no good for DS5 in HS.

Fertilizer company in town has We're Hiring! signs up, with sign-on bonus. When you go online to apply, the links are broken, you go round in circles. If you persevere and find the right link, there's exactly 1 position *there* and not out of state, and there's no salary info.

Most other hiring signs want CDL drivers. Good luck.

School districts are getting desperate for bus drivers. They are so short handed that they are cutting school hours/days to shift bus runs. No idea how that's kosher with state minimum teaching day/hour rules.

Last night we were talking about fast food places, and DS4 talked about his experiences in college, at both the city campus and suburban campus. Many places only did drive-thru late evening, and refused to serve walk-up. College students would be hungry late, after all on campus dining places shut down, but couldn't find someone, anyone, with a car to do the drive-thru (it was literally across the street from campus). There was one calzone place open late that got business strictly because they were the only option - their food wasn't that great, but if you are hungry... We went back and forth about how stupid it was that most places turned business away by refusing walk-ups, but DS4 figured it was not manager policy but the lone late night employee who couldn't be bothered to do more work. This was at the flagship state Uni, in the second biggest city in the state, and pre-Covid. It's a city unto itself in numbers, some 19k undergrads alone, plus grad students and then staff. So not a little podunk town that shuts down at 8pm.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 3, 2021 9:32:33 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

A few odds and ends of anecdotes.

DS5 applied all over for a summer job. He either never heard back, or was told to wait until x date 6 weeks out when they'd have a mass hiring. Never heard back, summer's long over.

I was reading an article about that and it basically said that employees are evolving faster than the workforce right now.  Managers and hiring teams are still stuck in pre 2020 expecting potential employees to wait breathlessly by the phone until they decide they will call them. 

People aren't willing to go through 3-4 interviews when there are other places hiring right out the gate.  People aren't willing to wait for follow up when there is another company that will take them off the streets.  People aren't waiting around till the company gets done spending 3 weeks doing background checks and drug tests when there is another company who can get all that done in a week.


Employers have been dismissive and ghosting people for DECADES.   Employees are finally waking up and giving them a dose of their own medicine.  People are done with the idea that we need to bend over backwards at the mere mention of an interview/job.  

There was a company that drug me through 2 interviews, a test exam and then were shocked when they called me for interview #3 that I informed them someone else had already hired me (here).   Why on Earth do companies think that is acceptable?  What did you not learn in the first two?  This was for a basic lab tech position not the future CEO of the company.  I didn't wait for them then and I sure as hell wouldn't wait for them now.  

Employers are going to have to change their interview and hiring habits.  Or keep whining it's nobody wants to work despite unemployment in both Iowa and Nebraska being lower than it's been since the early 90's.

Our company is having problems with the drug test.  They are taking so long to get results back and you can't start until they have them, that prospective employees are withdrawing offers because while waiting around for the green like they found a place who can get them on board faster.   HR lady is trying to find another company to contract with because they can't afford to keep losing new hires.

[teen persuasion]

I think it's like the story Pink mentioned (guy in Florida applied 60 places, only got 1 interview). Places say they are hiring, but either it's all show, or they are looking for a unicorn perfect fit for this *one* magic position. And when they don't find someone good enough, they keep waiting, working on w/o the unicorn instead of hiring someone who could learn to be the unicorn if only someone would teach them.

IDK, DS5 is 16. He was applying for grocery store or hardware store or coffee shop jobs, not career jobs. Instead of blanket "We're Hiring" signs, maybe they should be more specific to fine tune the applicants - hiring managers vs cart boys. Then DS5 knows if it's worth bothering to apply.

And the chain-wide hiring blitzes are stupid out here - why bother applying blindly for a job only to find out they are nowhere nearby?

[TheOtherMe]

Nov 3, 2021 8:16:07 GMT -5 CCL said:

Nov 2, 2021 21:04:02 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

DN3 manages a Dairy Queen.  He has trouble finding help, but it isn't full time and I would not want to work there.

When I was at my doctor's office last week, I was told they are short of help and they are advertising sign on bonuses.  However, certain skills are needed for those positions.

My niece, who is a surgical nurse, did get a raise and the sign on bonus even though she has been with the hospital for at least 15 years.

I saw a billboard the other day advertising a $40k sign-on bonus for nurses.

The sign on bonus is not that high in this area, but it was great of the hospital to also give it to current employees.

[buystoys]

Our area seems to be different.  We had a lot of jobs available before the pandemic, though.  There are just more open now than there were before.  Manufacturing plants in the area have multiples of positions posted for hiring.  People are getting bonuses for referring new employees. 

Fast food and restaurants here are operating during limited hours.  Most places are closing at 9 rather than 11.  Some places have even stopped serving lunch which is big here. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Nov 3, 2021 10:46:32 GMT -5 buystoys said:

Our area seems to be different.  We had a lot of jobs available before the pandemic, though.  There are just more open now than there were before.  Manufacturing plants in the area have multiples of positions posted for hiring.  People are getting bonuses for referring new employees. 

Fast food and restaurants here are operating during limited hours.  Most places are closing at 9 rather than 11.  Some places have even stopped serving lunch which is big here. 

Yep, several of the local places have stopped lunch service here too.  In fact, our favorite Chinese place has gone to take out only.  I don’t know if they’re ever going back to seated service.  Last time I asked, the woman said she didn’t think so.

[giramomma]

Nov 3, 2021 10:31:39 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

I think it's like the story Pink mentioned (guy in Florida applied 60 places, only got 1 interview). Places say they are hiring, but either it's all show, or they are looking for a unicorn perfect fit for this *one* magic position. And when they don't find someone good enough, they keep waiting, working on w/o the unicorn instead of hiring someone who could learn to be the unicorn if only someone would teach them.

IDK, DS5 is 16. He was applying for grocery store or hardware store or coffee shop jobs, not career jobs. Instead of blanket "We're Hiring" signs, maybe they should be more specific to fine tune the applicants - hiring managers vs cart boys. Then DS5 knows if it's worth bothering to apply.

Maybe some of this is location dependent?

DS's friends seem to find jobs pretty easily. One kid still found employment within a month or so after being fired for stealing from his previous employer.

[TheOtherMe]

Nov 3, 2021 10:49:46 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Nov 3, 2021 10:46:32 GMT -5 buystoys said:

Our area seems to be different.  We had a lot of jobs available before the pandemic, though.  There are just more open now than there were before.  Manufacturing plants in the area have multiples of positions posted for hiring.  People are getting bonuses for referring new employees. 

Fast food and restaurants here are operating during limited hours.  Most places are closing at 9 rather than 11.  Some places have even stopped serving lunch which is big here. 

Yep, several of the local places have stopped lunch service here too.  In fact, our favorite Chinese place has gone to take out only.  I don’t know if they’re ever going back to seated service.  Last time I asked, the woman said she didn’t think so.

Stop serving lunch, closing early without notice, cut backs on menu items.  You never know if a place will be open or not.  

Factories are crying for help.  DN3 lost an employee to a factory because it paid better, was full time and had a 401(K).  Part time at DQ doesn't compare.

[Tiny]

figured it was not manager policy but the lone late night employee who couldn't be bothered to do more work.

It might have been a security issue - perhaps a single employee in a building would be/feel safer if people weren't allowed inside.

It might also be that the manager didn't want to pay for 2 people - one to work the drive up and one to work to walk ins.

Most of the fast food places in my area close their "dining room" between 9pm and 11pm... even though the drive up is open to midnight or beyond. They can have fewer employees running the show - and it's more secure for the workers (no one hanging out in the bathroom(s) or sitting at tables being obnoxious - and I'm guessing it's harder to rob a fast food restaurant via the drive up window.

I've got some old school bank buildings where there's a drive up window and you could go in and "walk up".  with the advent of automated tellers and online banking - there is now typically ONE teller has to handle BOTH windows there are some loooonnnnnggggg wait times for service.
I know that's not fast food... but it's kind of the same - one worker trying to cover 2 requests for service at a time were both people feel like they are the "first in line" because they can't see the other line of customers.

(Back in the day there'd be 4 or 5 tellers avialable Monday thru Thursday and then 6 or more available Friday thru Saturday (when people got paid and needed to cash their pay check).   Many of the old school bank buildings have 4  "drive thru" bank lanes and they would have 4 tellers manning the drive thru.  -    Now there's one teller for walk ups and drive thru. )   

[Tiny]

I just read an article that 1.7 million WORKING baby boomers retired "early" due to the pandemic.

Maybe it's NOT that people don't want to work - it's that there literally aren't enough people to fill the jobs.

(even if 1 million of the boomer jobs need to be filled - I'm guessing that means a lot of people "moved up" the career ladder... which would mean that many of the people who had to take the hourly jobs/part time jobs may have finally gotten a foot in the door of a full time job - thanks to a boomer retiring. I'm guessing many of the jobs the boomers retired from will not be filled. )

[stillmovingforward]

I understood it that a 'walk up' to the drive through window wasn't allowed. I've had that happen and it's very frustrating.
I had to make an emergency out-of-state trip during lock down. So I took my rv. Several areas had restuarants rightfully close their dining rooms. But I couldn't walk up to their drive thru window and get food. And I can't drive my rv thru (too tall). I tried, they wouldn't take my order and told me to leave.
I didn't think of any of that when I started my drive. It was an eye opener.

[nidena]

Nov 3, 2021 16:27:25 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I just read an article that 1.7 million WORKING baby boomers retired "early" due to the pandemic.

Maybe it's NOT that people don't want to work - it's that there literally aren't enough people to fill the jobs.

(even if 1 million of the boomer jobs need to be filled - I'm guessing that means a lot of people "moved up" the career ladder... which would mean that many of the people who had to take the hourly jobs/part time jobs may have finally gotten a foot in the door of a full time job - thanks to a boomer retiring. I'm guessing many of the jobs the boomers retired from will not be filled. )

Add in another million or so immigrants from all over the world who weren't allowed to come work here due to visa suspensions.  Well, it certainly opened up hundreds of thousands of jobs for Americans.

[nidena]

So, what are the reasons thus far...

• Nearly a million in the U.S. have died
• Nearly 50 million have caught COVID with who knows how many millions CANNOT work any longer (the last number I saw was 8 million)
• Tens of millions are dealing with child care issues
• Tens of millions got tired of being exploited for their labor
• A couple million in their 50s and 60s retired early involuntarily
• Another few million baby boomers likely said "Eff it, I'm too old for this shit!" so it was less involuntary than those in their 50s and 60s
  
  And most of the jobs are either shit ones in retail or food service OR they're a skills mismatch between what they require and what their surrounding areas have in the worker pools.
  Plus another few hundred thousand immigrants who aren't around to fill positions.

[thyme4change]

Nov 3, 2021 16:52:04 GMT -5 nidena said:

So, what are the reasons thus far...

• Nearly a million in the U.S. have died
• Nearly 50 million have caught COVID with who knows how many millions CANNOT work any longer (the last number I saw was 8 million)
• Tens of millions are dealing with child care issues
• Tens of millions got tired of being exploited for their labor
• A couple million in their 50s and 60s retired early involuntarily
• Another few million baby boomers likely said "Eff it, I'm too old for this shit!" so it was less involuntary than those in their 50s and 60s
  
  And most of the jobs are either shit ones in retail or food service OR they're a skills mismatch between what they require and what their surrounding areas have in the worker pools.
  Plus another few hundred thousand immigrants who aren't around to fill positions.

Both legal and undocumented non-citizens have been removed from the work force, and in the case of undocumented workers we aren't able to get an accurate count. Some experts are thinking it may be a larger impact than other theories. For exapmle, we have had a lot of deaths - but 80% of the people who died from Covid were not employed.

[TheOtherMe]

Nov 3, 2021 17:19:32 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Nov 3, 2021 16:52:04 GMT -5 nidena said:

So, what are the reasons thus far...

• Nearly a million in the U.S. have died
• Nearly 50 million have caught COVID with who knows how many millions CANNOT work any longer (the last number I saw was 8 million)
• Tens of millions are dealing with child care issues
• Tens of millions got tired of being exploited for their labor
• A couple million in their 50s and 60s retired early involuntarily
• Another few million baby boomers likely said "Eff it, I'm too old for this shit!" so it was less involuntary than those in their 50s and 60s
  
  And most of the jobs are either shit ones in retail or food service OR they're a skills mismatch between what they require and what their surrounding areas have in the worker pools.
  Plus another few hundred thousand immigrants who aren't around to fill positions.

Both legal and undocumented non-citizens have been removed from the work force, and in the case of undocumented workers we aren't able to get an accurate count. Some experts are thinking it may be a larger impact than other theories. For exapmle, we have had a lot of deaths - but 80% of the people who died from Covid were not employed.

I would have to look up the exact numbers but a large number of people who have died from Covid were living in long term care facilities, as in nursing homes.  They were not working.

Definitely we have no idea of the undocumented workers and if they are still working.

An undocumented immigrant was convicted of murdering a young college student here.  He worked in the farm fields.  The farmers in that area say they can not find workers because of this incident.  They left and they are not coming back to that area.

[nidena]

Went digging for the numbers--data fascinates me--and what I found supports what you say about it being older folks.  

Death from select causes of COVID, pneumonia, and influenza in 2020/2021 was more than 6 million with only 10% being under age 50.  ETA: the most common location was "healthcare setting/inpatient"  source

[teen persuasion]

Nov 3, 2021 16:31:52 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

I understood it that a 'walk up' to the drive through window wasn't allowed. I've had that happen and it's very frustrating.
I had to make an emergency out-of-state trip during lock down. So I took my rv. Several areas had restuarants rightfully close their dining rooms. But I couldn't walk up to their drive thru window and get food. And I can't drive my rv thru (too tall). I tried, they wouldn't take my order and told me to leave.
I didn't think of any of that when I started my drive. It was an eye opener.

This is it exactly!  I couldn't understand why they refused to serve pedestrians at the drive thru.  This was across the street from the city campus (which has its own subway station).  There's also a campus shuttle service that runs back and forth between the city & suburban campuses, plus to area shopping/etc.  Students don't need cars, and parking would be seriously insufficient for the  college population.  You've got a captive market, and you shut most out?  SMH

[azucena]

Nov 3, 2021 21:38:59 GMT -5 nidena said:

Went digging for the numbers--data fascinates me--and what I found supports what you say about it being older folks.  

Death from select causes of COVID, pneumonia, and influenza in 2020/2021 was more than 6 million with only 10% being under age 50.  ETA: the most common location was "healthcare setting/inpatient"  source

The 2021 numbers are still rolling in and there was a definite trend of increased deaths in ages 30-50.  You have to look at excess deaths instead of just those causes.  2020 was older age deaths in nursing homes.

I've seen current estimates of 100k add'l population deaths.  So unnecessary.

[billisonboard]

Nov 4, 2021 7:58:00 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Nov 3, 2021 16:31:52 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

I understood it that a 'walk up' to the drive through window wasn't allowed. I've had that happen and it's very frustrating.
I had to make an emergency out-of-state trip during lock down. So I took my rv. Several areas had restuarants rightfully close their dining rooms. But I couldn't walk up to their drive thru window and get food. And I can't drive my rv thru (too tall). I tried, they wouldn't take my order and told me to leave.
I didn't think of any of that when I started my drive. It was an eye opener.

This is it exactly!  I couldn't understand why they refused to serve pedestrians at the drive thru.  This was across the street from the city campus (which has its own subway station).  There's also a campus shuttle service that runs back and forth between the city & suburban campuses, plus to area shopping/etc.  Students don't need cars, and parking would be seriously insufficient for the  college population.  You've got a captive market, and you shut most out?  SMH

It is a liability issue. People at drive up windows have been hit by drivers not expecting to have a pedestrian standing there.

[jerseygirl]

Put them together and they account for about 5% of the civilian labor force , a large number when drilling down into communities. In the Tampa Bay region in Florida, for example, 30 people died every week from an opioid overdose in the first half of 2020, according to Project Opioid Tampa Bay. About 75% of those people were in the prime working-age population.


www.reuters.com/breakingviews/covid-guns-drugs-fuel-irreparable-labor-shortage-2021-11-04/

[nidena]

And you have to wonder...

How many people died by suicide?
How many by causes that could have been prevented but they were scared of catching COVID at the hospital and therefor delayed treatment?
How many were homeless with no living relatives and nobody to notice they had died?
How many were recluses with shelter but ditto the homeless above?

I would venture to bet we have a negative population growth last year and this year and a few years to come.

[CCL]

Nov 3, 2021 10:49:46 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Nov 3, 2021 10:46:32 GMT -5 buystoys said:

Our area seems to be different.  We had a lot of jobs available before the pandemic, though.  There are just more open now than there were before.  Manufacturing plants in the area have multiples of positions posted for hiring.  People are getting bonuses for referring new employees. 

Fast food and restaurants here are operating during limited hours.  Most places are closing at 9 rather than 11.  Some places have even stopped serving lunch which is big here. 

Yep, several of the local places have stopped lunch service here too.  In fact, our favorite Chinese place has gone to take out only.  I don’t know if they’re ever going back to seated service.  Last time I asked, the woman said she didn’t think so.

Same things happening here.

[gs11rmb]

My employer is having difficulties filling both entry level (~$12-~$14 positions) as well as career-type positions.  Our accounting department is trying to fill 3 roles and have had very few applicants.  Our research department needs a PhD scientist.  They were expecting about 100 applicants and have received 7!  Of those, 4 don't have PhD's, and 3 don't have experience in the correct field.  So, they have 1 qualified applicant.

[thyme4change]

Nov 5, 2021 9:28:10 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

My employer is having difficulties filling both entry level (~$12-~$14 positions) as well as career-type positions.  Our accounting department is trying to fill 3 roles and have had very few applicants.  Our research department needs a PhD scientist.  They were expecting about 100 applicants and have received 7!  Of those, 4 don't have PhD's, and 3 don't have experience in the correct field.  So, they have 1 qualified applicant.

We only got quality candidates via a recruiter. I don’t think professionals are applying cold - no need - plenty of companies willing to do the work for them.

[wvugurl26]

gs11rmb for the accounting positions could they reach out to career centers in local colleges?

My aunt is VP of benefits for a very large investment bank. This is her third role since leaving Schwab where she was for years. She has used recruiters to find roles each time.

Perhaps a marketing miss on the PhD position?

[gs11rmb]

Nov 5, 2021 10:45:13 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

gs11rmb for the accounting positions could they reach out to career centers in local colleges?

My aunt is VP of benefits for a very large investment bank. This is her third role since leaving Schwab where she was for years. She has used recruiters to find roles each time.

Perhaps a marketing miss on the PhD position?

I think it's possible that they've been so used to having more applicants than they need that they just did their usual 'thing' and have been caught flat-footed.

[Deleted]

DD has interviewed and been offered both jobs.  Both interviews seemed like just formalities, as they are desperate for bodies.  Not sure if she will take either, she seemed less than enthused after the interviews.