Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[nidena]

Jul 22, 2021 16:12:11 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

Jul 16, 2021 18:24:51 GMT -5 nidena said:

A great article relevant to the pilot shortage, both military and civilian.  It's three years old but I don't imagine that the situation magically improved between 2018 and this year. www.marketwatch.com/story/the-us-has-a-shortage-of-pilots-and-its-going-to-get-worse-2018-07-13

One nugget of info: In the 80s, roughly two-thirds of airline pilots were ex-military. Recently, that percentage has dropped to less than one-third. The Navy predicts a 10% pilot shortage in 2020, while the Air Force predicts its own 1,000-pilot shortage by 2022.

Another statistic from it: A 2016 report by Boeing shows that 42% of the pilots currently flying for the major airlines in the U.S. will reach their mandatory retirement age of 65 in the next 10 years.

And aren’t most Americans too overweight to even join a branch of the military these days? I really don’t know what the military will do about that. Maybe start taking illegal immigrants that can meet the physical standards?

Most are but the military has gotten small enough that the smaller pool to choose from doesn't appear to have effected it tremendously...yet.  It'll happen though.

[Tennesseer]

'Nobody wants to work anymore': How a simple phrase became the oversimplified scapegoat for every problem plaguing the American labor market

Maybe you've seen it on a sign at your local Taco Bell drive-thru, or as part of a screed on social media: "Nobody wants to work anymore."

The phrase has become strikingly common in current American society, and taken at face value, it stands to reason that everyone has collectively decided to stop working.

On a recent trip near Reading, Pennsylvania, I heard the phrase no less than three times in 24 hours from three completely different people.

My colleague Áine Cain recently traveled through several states and saw the same signs everywhere, from Virginia to upstate New York:



It even spread to the most popular show on cable news, "Tucker Carlson Tonight."

"The government is paying people more to not work than to work," Fox News host Tucker Carlson said on his primetime show in May. "So why would they work? Would you?"

While some Americans are receiving more money in unemployment than they would from a minimum wage job, the situation is much more complicated than Carlson makes it out to be.

The ongoing coronavirus pandemic has been the catalyst for a variety of huge changes in the labor market, including a drastic decrease in women — especially women of color — participating as a result of lacking access to childcare and major retailers like Amazon hoovering up available workers with higher wage minimums.

Complete article here: 'Nobody wants to work anymore': How a simple phrase became the oversimplified scapegoat for every problem plaguing the American labor market

[TheOtherMe]

The unemployment rate in my state is lower now than it was a year ago so where are these workers coming from?

[nidena]

The unemployment rate is such a flawed measuring tool.

[giramomma]

Unemployment is still up in my county. Usually unemployment hovers at 2+ percent. In May, it was 3%.

So, we still have about .5% to go before we hit our normal.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

DH and I were just talking about this in regards to press operators at his company.

The people who used to do it were his age or older and decided screw it. This is not a skill they train for much anymore it's a dying skill. DH is keeping it in his back pocket just in case.

It's not a bad paying job nor is it nearly as labor intensive as when DH started.

It's the company wants people with experience. The people with the experience are retiring.

When DH learned you apprenticed and worked your way to press operator on the job.

Along the way like most jobs it has become cheaper and easier to bring in already skilled workers. This doesn't work anymore when all your skilled people are retiring and it's not a skill your new work force hasn't ever needed to learn.

Companies may need to pull their heads out of their butts and bring back apprenticeships for certain types of jobs. It'll be more effort and yeah there will be people who take their skills and go home but what is worse?

Investing time in humans and getting a ROI or having orders sit unfilled till 2022 because you only have a couple near retirement operators left?

[Deleted]

Jul 24, 2021 7:20:25 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Companies may need to pull their heads out of their butts and bring back apprenticeships for certain types of jobs. It'll be more effort and yeah there will be people who take their skills and go home but what is worse?

Investing time in humans and getting a ROI or having orders sit unfilled till 2022 because you only have a couple near retirement operators left?

This is a big issue and has been for years- not just in manufacturing but in office-type jobs.  The running joke is that the job specs ask for 5 years of experience with a coding language that was developed 3 years ago.  Companies have pretty much shut down training and want people who have a specific degree and specific experience, when a good work ethic and ability to learn are more important in the long run.

The problem is that if you're the only one on the block investing in training, competitors will poach your people as soon as they're up and running so you have to offer solid incentives to stay. 

[nidena]

I'm finding, more and more, that I don't want to work 9-5 (or 6 or 7) job.

When do you have time to live your life?  To engage in hobbies?  To make new friends because you're in a new city and the old friends didn't move with you?  To do nothing and let your brain rest a bit.

M-F, 9-5ish means you cram all that stuff into Sat and Sun along with cleaning the house and, for those that do, going to their house of faith.

[sesfw]

M-F, 9-5ish means you cram all that stuff into Sat and Sun along with cleaning the house and, for those that do, going to their house of faith.


Big reasons why I like my part time, on call, manufacturing position.

A very long time ago I worked a temp position that wanted me to work 70-80 hours a week.  After a couple of weeks of this I was exhausted to the point of not sleeping.

Not for me so I declined the full time position. 

[Deleted]

Jul 24, 2021 10:06:04 GMT -5 nidena said:

I'm finding, more and more, that I don't want to work 9-5 (or 6 or 7) job.

When do you have time to live your life?  To engage in hobbies?  To make new friends because you're in a new city and the old friends didn't move with you?  To do nothing and let your brain rest a bit.

M-F, 9-5ish means you cram all that stuff into Sat and Sun along with cleaning the house and, for those that do, going to their house of faith.

I did it for 38 years.  I saw it as balance.  There are no guarantees in life that you'll live long enough past traditional retirement age to make all that stress and saving worthwhile so you have to enjoy it some along the way.  No, I didn't have a lot of time for hobbies, especially when DS was little.  Having a church community was a plus- I had a lot of friends there and it reminded me there was more to life than work and money.  Yeah, it sucked to have to ration out vacation days but that was part of the job.

The company where I worked the most nightmarish hours (stretches of 70-75 hour, 6-day workweeks over a few accounting quarters, then they downsized me ) is the source of one of my $900/month non-COLA pensions.

If I'd chosen, say, PT work or a less-stressful job, or taken long sabbaticals to backpack through Europe (after a trip in 1982 until 2000 I saw Europe only on business), I'd be posting here about how hard it is to live on my meager SS check.

[Tiny]

Companies have pretty much shut down training and want people who have a specific degree and specific experience, when a good work ethic and ability to learn are more important in the long run.

M-F, 9-5ish means you cram all that stuff into Sat and Sun along with cleaning the house and, for those that do, going to their house of faith.

My employer expects me to get training on my own after work hours.

I have a "9 to 5" job. BUT I have a 50 minute commute to work and a 50 minute commute home (walk to train, take train, walk to office). The trains don't match up nicely with getting to work at 9 and leaving at 5. To get in my "required" 7 hour work day - I either get to work at 8:00am (and leave at 4:50pm and get accused of leaving early...) or I take train that gets me to work at 9:10am (and get accused of getting to work late and leave work at 5:20pm to catch a train that gets me home after 6pm.) No matter what I do - I'm away from home for 11 hours per day - with my 9 to 5 job.

I will admit I am tired of having to relearn my job every few years. IN fact I consciously stopped "re learning" my job about 10 years ago. I saw a path to FIre and I opted for it instead. (keep my current position as long as possible without putting more into it - while investing/saving/building wealth outside of work)

My employer has an online company that can teach me new skills - it's set up so I can do 15 minutes here and 15 minutes there. You know in my "spare time" during the work day or after work. I should have been more proactive during WFH - when I didn't have "commute" time... but I didn't. I practiced what it would be like if I didnt' have to go to work, I was worried about someday not having a job. WFH showed me I will be OK if and when I FIre.

I don't want to have 15 or 16 hours per day allocated to the various parts of "work" or "my job". I did that for decades. I haven't done it for more than 10years now. I don't want to go back to that. 

I can't be the only 50 something who's doing office work who is tired of that grind. I want to work. I just want to work that dream of being able to go to work and to also have time to do other things (family, hobbies, house work, whatever) A job that consumes 12 hours of my day Monday thru Friday can not be made into that dream.

I too am working for a Pension (I won't be able to take it until I'm 65. as I plan to quit/be let go at 58 years of age) and for current healthcare and my ability to cram as much as possible into "retirement" oriented accounts and a taxable account so I can FIre.    I will need a job but I'm hoping I won't have to spend 11 to 12 hours away from home  five days a week. 

[Ava]

I couldn't agree with you more, Tiny

Before the pandemic, I had to leave the house at 8.30 to make it on time to work.
Which meant I was eating breakfast, showering and getting dressed by 7.45.

My start time was 9.30, and a good day without delays was 45 minutes ride, then parking and getting to my desk.

I would leave at 6.00 and arrive home at 7.00. By the time I got changed, removed my make up and had dinner, talked to mom and the phone and played with the cat for 15 minutes, it was 8.30

On the weekends I had to cram all housework, grocery shopping, laundry, bill paying and any social activities. 

Now I work from home, at least temporarily. I would say my quality of life improved because the commute was insane and very stressful. But since the pandemic started we have more work, and I work 8.30 to 6.00 now. I also work some Saturdays. Still too much.


nidena if you can quit the 9 to 5, and I think you can, I would go for it.

Me, I'm calling it quits when I turn 59 years old. If I stay in the States I'll probably work part-time, but if I'm moving out that's it. I would be done by that age.
And I actually have a great manager and wonderful teammates, some of them have even become personal friends. I can't imagine what life would be like in a stressful job with nasty people.

[TheOtherMe]

I spent 25 years in Denver doing the big commute.  

To reduce the time, most of my managers allowed to come in at 7.  That meant I was getting up at 5 or so to get ready to leave by 5:45 AM.  On a good day I would be at my desk by 6:45 AM.  It it wasn't a good day, it often met 7:30 AM.  I would get off at 3:45 PM.  45 minutes for lunch.  4 days out of 5, there were traffic problems on the way home.  It was always over an hour home.  On a snowy day, it was as much as 3 hours.  On the day from hell, it was 9 hours on a bus.  

I had housework, yard work, snow to shovel, etc.  Being single, meant I did everything.  I had a garden and canned.  I painted my house one summer.  I was so much younger then.

I had great friends I had made at work and at basketball games.  The basketball games and those friendships saved my sanity.

The insane commute was only going to get worse so when I was offered early retirement (I was also having some serious health issues), I signed up and got out of that.

Worked part time after that.  When I was an auditor for casinos, I had long commutes but I really enjoyed what I was doing.  I needed to get out of the house 3 days a week.  Since I was driving in to the mountains for those jobs, my co-workers would let me stay with them if the snow was flying when we got off work.  My boss used me as a barometer for if people could get to work.  Most co-workers at both the IRS and the casinos, didn't get up early to allow for extra time on snowy mornings.  I did and made it to work 95% of the time.

[nidena]

With some recent developments in my life and running that info by my therapist, they're recommending that I actually cut down to three days a week.  Now, I just have to come up with a game plan to make it a viable option for my boss(es).

[formerroomate99]

DJ made a good point a while back— if your business model depends on paying people less than a living wage, then you probably shouldn’t be in business. And from what I hear, a lot of people, like me, have started buying more stuff online and cooking more at home, we’re not gonna need as many restaurants and retail establishments going forward. And hopefully, the ones who survive will be able to do so by paying their employees a little better. I’ve noticed that the fast food places have started advertising higher wages since the pandemic started.

I don’t know about your area, but around here, the colleges started offering a bunch of classes online for free, so that the folks who lost their jobs to the pandemic could keep themselves busy by retooling. There might be a large chunk of people who have use this time to upskill.

[nidena]

Jul 24, 2021 19:55:15 GMT -5 nidena said:

With some recent developments in my life and running that info by my therapist, they're recommending that I actually cut down to three days a week.  Now, I just have to come up with a game plan to make it a viable option for my boss(es).

I'm taking a 25% cut in pay but I got my three-day work week.  It may sometimes be 3+ to ensure I get 30 hours in but I'm okay with that.  My bosses are also going to hire an admin person to take care of many of the processes that are just paperwork preparation.  I'm kind of stoked.

[buystoys]

The fast food places around here just recently raised their starting wages to $12 per hour.  They're still struggling to get enough people to run shifts.  There are too many manufacturing jobs open that start at $15 per hour or more.  We have hundreds of jobs open around here.  There weren't many layoffs during the pandemic and everyone's businesses seem to be rocking along.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

This morning, I was at the paint store to pick up paint.  Professional painting companies are looking for employees and they were paying $40/hour plus benefits.  

While I was waiting for the paint to be tinted, I wandered around the store.  There were a hell of a lot of empty shelves.  Seeing that, along with the fact that to get 8 gallons of deck stain I had to drive across town to get the last they had makes me think that there’s lots going on.  First store, the parking lot was full and there were several people ahead of me.  Second store, I was 6th in line.  Luckily, first store faxed my order to second store.

[Tiny]

Dang! I can't find the article - I think it was a NYTimes peice. About QR Code Menus and Restaurants and how they collect info about the customers.

Yeah, the "tracking thing" was interesting - but was even MORE interesting is that the restaurants that used the "touchless" menus -- they needed FEWER servers/staff. I'm wondering how that's playing into the "lack" of people applying for these jobs. If the restaurants keep the QR Code menus (customers say they don't like it - but they choose to use it when offered the option....not sure what that indicates) they may not need as many workers as they did pre-pandemic.

[nidena]

Jul 26, 2021 19:16:27 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Dang! I can't find the article - I think it was a NYTimes peice. About QR Code Menus and Restaurants and how they collect info about the customers.

Yeah, the "tracking thing" was interesting - but was even MORE interesting is that the restaurants that used the "touchless" menus -- they needed FEWER servers/staff. I'm wondering how that's playing into the "lack" of people applying for these jobs. If the restaurants keep the QR Code menus (customers say they don't like it - but they choose to use it when offered the option....not sure what that indicates) they may not need as many workers as they did pre-pandemic.

There's a headline about them on LinkedIn.  Maybe it's one of them: www.linkedin.com/news/story/qr-codes-are-having-a-moment-5099300/

[teen persuasion]

My nephew is 17, and recently began working at Tim Horton's. They are so short staffed, at times he is the senior staff member on duty, in charge of closing with 2 other, newer, younger hires (someone higher up closed another site for the evening, and brought the 2 younger ones over to keep at least one site open). Yeah, that's not legal, they are all underage, and so new they have no idea how to handle stuff.

Hours are limited - earlier in the year, they closed at 5pm, now they are open to 8pm, woohoo, but maybe only the drive-thru not dine-in after 5.

They are also playing games with required lunch breaks - if he works 6+ hours, he's entitled to a lunch break. So a 6 hour shift plus closing exceeds this - they dock him the 1/2 hour for a lunch break HE NEVER GOT. So my sister (his mom) is recommending he find a better job and quit. And tell them why on his way out.


DH heard the Burger King nearby had to close one day last week - the cook quit, mid-shift.

[wvugurl26]

See this is exactly why people are leaving retail/food service. They want to treat people like crap and play games and wonder why they can't get employees. And this is before we get into the abuse from the public. These have always been crappy jobs and people are done working those jobs. They have moved to different industries or started their own business.

I would be finding a new job and reporting them to the department of labor for wage theft.

[formerroomate99]

Jul 26, 2021 20:48:19 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

See this is exactly why people are leaving retail/food service. They want to treat people like crap and play games and wonder why they can't get employees. And this is before we get into the abuse from the public. These have always been crappy jobs and people are done working those jobs. They have moved to different industries or started their own business.

I would be finding a new job and reporting them to the department of labor for wage theft.

And honestly, it wouldn’t be the end of the world if we had fewer restaurants and retail that were a little bit more expensive, and use the extra revenue to give their employees a better wage.

Though around here, there are quite a few fast food restaurants that appear to be hiring illegals rather than raising wages. I’m sure the corporate wings of both parties are quite delighted that a bunch of people are streaming across our borders, willing to take low pay and crappy working conditions.

[swamp]

This thread has been going since May. I didnt want to work anymore then, and I still don’t want to work, and I have a great job.

If I was working in restaurant service, I’d quit too. Been there, done that, got several t shirts.

On a related note, I live in a county where unemployment generally hovers around 9 to 10%. It’s down to about 6 % and everywhere has help wanted signs up. It’s more than just paying extra unemployment

[Opti]

Jul 26, 2021 19:22:22 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

My nephew is 17, and recently began working at Tim Horton's. They are so short staffed, at times he is the senior staff member on duty, in charge of closing with 2 other, newer, younger hires (someone higher up closed another site for the evening, and brought the 2 younger ones over to keep at least one site open). Yeah, that's not legal, they are all underage, and so new they have no idea how to handle stuff.

Hours are limited - earlier in the year, they closed at 5pm, now they are open to 8pm, woohoo, but maybe only the drive-thru not dine-in after 5.

They are also playing games with required lunch breaks - if he works 6+ hours, he's entitled to a lunch break. So a 6 hour shift plus closing exceeds this - they dock him the 1/2 hour for a lunch break HE NEVER GOT. So my sister (his mom) is recommending he find a better job and quit. And tell them why on his way out.


DH heard the Burger King nearby had to close one day last week - the cook quit, mid-shift.

This happens many other places including to me at times. Our time clock auto removes your meal break and there is no known or acceptable way to get back. Nurses and aides regularly don't have time to eat because of staffing. Because of lunch coverage issues, I used to go without frequently on certain days of the week. Its wrong, it sucks, but quitting Hortons might not fix the issue. Good luck and better employment to him whatever he chooses to do.


NJ shore businesses are begging for employees. Most are HS, because this summer older folks don't want to apply or quit a few weeks in because they hate the hours. I think next summer will be different, hopefully we will be in a better place in the US pandemic-wise, but right now we are in the make merry while you can phase for a large portion of the public. Which means many college aged folks or people who might work short term temp jobs are not interested in doing so this summer, this year.

[Lizard Queen]

It doesn't just suck, it is illegal, and teen's DS should complain in order to get it corrected. Because if there is such a shortage of workers, he shouldn't worry about retaliation.

[jeffreymo]

Put me in the camp of those who don’t want to work anymore or work less. I want to retire early and I may need to retire early. So many jobs are being automated. Through continuous process improvement what used to take 40 hours is now taking only a fraction of the time. So boredom sets in and to keep busy through the week we continue to test and find ways to do the work even more efficiently. Really what was a 5 day work week should probably be 4 days and possibly even 3. It’s really hard to envision what my job will look like in 5 years. I’m hoping to hang on for 10.

ETA: And for every group like mine there are others out there that create monotonous work for themselves to justify the 40 hours. And others that don’t or aren’t able to utilize technology. I can’t work like that.

[bean29]

Someone said earlier in this thread that every time they see the title they think Yeah, I don't want to work anymore either.  That is exactly where my mind goes too.

I do feel that I need to work another 5-8 years, so plan to keep showing up to work every day, but I hate my job too.

About a month ago Boss hired a new person.  He hired him for a pay rate more than every other member of that team.  When I pointed this out, I was pretty much told it was none of my business.  I also was told Boss is planning to give every one a raise, but I was also told that before the Pandemic started, and he decided that he was not going to do it once the pandemic hit.  The last pay raises at this company were in Early 2017.  I just added a new employee to replace an employee that left.  New employee is making about $4/hr. more than the employee that leads the department and has been here more than 30 years.

I am torn about looking for a different job.  I would love to have less commute, but I am in my late 50's and do not know all the latest tech (my company is definitely old school, although we are not in the dark ages.  We would probably be fine with just DH's income, but my DH also does not feel real secure in his job.

I really hope they open up Medicare enrollment for people that are say between 60-65, but I really figure that they will do nada.  If I don't work and carry health insurance and DH stays in his same job- it will be a very expensive run until both DH and I are 65.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Exactly...I don't actually want to work. I would much prefer to have been born into the trust-funded aristocracy. Since I do have to work to both survive and parent, I did ensure that I was able to go into a profession I enjoy. 

[billisonboard]

Jul 28, 2021 9:52:10 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Someone said earlier in this thread that every time they see the title they think Yeah, I don't want to work anymore either.  That is exactly where my mind goes too.

I do feel that I need to work another 5-8 years, so plan to keep showing up to work every day, but I hate my job too.

About a month ago Boss hired a new person.  He hired him for a pay rate more than every other member of that team.  When I pointed this out, I was pretty much told it was none of my business.  I also was told Boss is planning to give every one a raise, but I was also told that before the Pandemic started, and he decided that he was not going to do it once the pandemic hit.  The last pay raises at this company were in Early 2017.  I just added a new employee to replace an employee that left.  New employee is making about $4/hr. more than the employee that leads the department and has been here more than 30 years.

I am torn about looking for a different job.  I would love to have less commute, but I am in my late 50's and do not know all the latest tech (my company is definitely old school, although we are not in the dark ages.  We would probably be fine with just DH's income, but my DH also does not feel real secure in his job.

I really hope they open up Medicare enrollment for people that are say between 60-65, but I really figure that they will do nada.  If I don't work and carry health insurance and DH stays in his same job- it will be a very expensive run until both DH and I are 65.

I hear all the time from my Floral Department Manager wife how little more she makes than the high schooler who just walked in the door to bag groceries and sweep the floor.