Purchasing small lots and turning them into park settings

[nidena]

Has anyone bought small plots of land within neighborhoods and turned them into little park-like settings?

While I'm considering rental properties as income flows, I feel like little parks throughout would be investment in the community.  I mean, yeah, taxes and upkeep would be definite ongoing expenses but there are so few green spaces around here, especially in the lower income areas.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Wouldn’t touch that one with a 30’ pole.  

Locally, all the parks in the low income areas have become camp grounds for the homeless.  The city has spent thousands shutting them down and cleaning up the drug paraphernalia and shit (literally) only to have to drive them out of another area.  As a result, there have been a lot of assaults, some on children.  The liability for this is on the city, not an individual.  

Nice idea, but nope.

[buystoys]

Yeah, I'm with Mich on this one.  Just way too much liability and problems to make it worthwhile.

[susana1954]

I do think the liability would be worse than you can imagine . . . assuming that you could even get an insurance company to insure something like this.

However, you might consider donating such plots to the city to own and maintain, putting legal restrictions on their ability to sell these, etc.  The city would have to want them, though.

You might want to check with a lawyer.

[Deleted]

We have friends who bought the lot adjacent to their home and made it into a little park with plants, paths and seats.  It was nice for awhile but then it became a hangout for teens smoking weed, the area full of doggy doo stinking to high heavens etc.  Now one spouse is in memory care and the other is in bad shape physically.  The neighbors are not amused with the problems of the "Park" at this time.  There's a legal principle called "attractive nuisance" under which you can be liable for creating a problem magnet and it's likely this homeowner will face issues with the City soon.  Most municipalities are facing budget challenges and don't want to take on any more maintenance obligations.  

Fortunately for me, it would be a violation of the covenants in our subdivision for a property owner to do that.  

[Tiny]

It's a good intention - but you'd really need to find the right "lot", the right community, and have goodwill from the local government. I've seen plenty of "pocket parks" work and quite a few fail.


My densely populated city has done a few "pocket parks". The ones that are "successful" are the one's that are uninviting and basically a lot that has a turf covering that the city removes trash and mows regularly . No one uses the "park". The other kind of successful "pocket park" has a sponsor - a church or school and has some sort of security installed - cameras, a high fence and gate, and the cops patrol regularly during the night. People dumping trash (old mattress? old couch? box o' empty beer bottles? ) are the biggest problem.

And an example of one that failed:
In an attempt to make the "business district" a little nicer the City turned a small triangular lot into a "park". It once was a tiny laundra-mat) and then was some poorly designed "parking spots" when the city removed the abandoned laundra-mat building. The space is too small for most businesses - no one wants to build on it - not even an ugly cheap cinderblock "store front". The "restaurant/icecream shop next to the lot was it's "sponsor" and was having "b-day parties" for kids and other small gatherings (20 people or less) in the space during nice weather. The space had a central concrete "gathering area" and path thru the lot, park benches were along the path and 4 picnic tables in the gathering area. Lighting was installed (so it wouldn't be totally dark at night) Trees and flowering shrubbery were planted. there were also flower beds and a mural on the brick wall of the business it butted up against. This was all pre-covid. Quite nice during the day. The little park became a handout for teens (and the local homeless) at night and keeping it clean was becoming a challenge. The park had a "fence" around it as it's on a busy-ish street but it was only 3 feet or so high - and the city started locking the gates at night... but the neighbors continued to complain about the late night "parties", trash, and noise. The "sponsoring" restaurant/icecream shop couldn't keep up with the trash, the graffitti, the destruction to the benches and tables. The police got called a couple of times to when fights broke out. And this is in a relatively nice suburb.

The summer of 2019 saw the little park torn out and black topped over. It's not parking or anything else - it's just an empty blacktopped bit of property in the business district.


It's hard to have "nice things" when not everyone is on board with it.    

[Lizard Queen]

It really saddens me to read about all the problems these have near them. My little city has these parks scattered throughout--in each neighborhood, and I haven't seen or heard of any problems with them. The bigger, central park near my house did have a drinking fountain destroyed a couple years ago.
My city has its own police force to patrol just the one square mile, though.

[Tiny]

May 2, 2021 17:05:59 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

It really saddens me to read about all the problems these have near them. My little city has these parks scattered throughout--in each neighborhood, and I haven't seen or heard of any problems with them. The bigger, central park near my house did have a drinking fountain destroyed a couple years ago.
My city has its own police force to patrol just the one square mile, though.

I do think it depends on the density of people.  My suburb has 50,000 people in 4 sq miles.  And my suburb is surrounded by other suburbs with high populations (but more square miles sizes).    So people move around, back and forth between suburbs when they are out "killing time" and such.   I'm sure there's easily 250,000 people that I somehow cross paths with when I'm out and about running errands.   

I can see the appeal of a "small town" where once you leave the "town" part you have to drive 20 or 30 minutes to get to a house or the next "small town".     If the local park gets vandalized - I suspect the inhabitants of the town (and probably the police - know if it was some of those "no good" Capulets or the Montagues having a "fun night out".     

In other words - there's different types of issues with different areas/location.


I do think Nidena's good intentions are workable  and doable.  It just that a "pocket park" needs to be a "community" thing - with a lot of people's long term buy in.   

[nidena]

Having a church adopt the plot definitely sounds like a good plan--there are nearly a thousand (no joke) in this city--or even a Kiwanis Club or something similar.

While I wouldn't want it to be homeless-adverse, I wouldn't want meth and crackheads taking over--which is very likely in some areas. 

Part of the inspiration for this is that this city has fewer parks/green spaces available to residents compared to many other places.  But, driving around and running errands, all I see is trash and litter.  It's so sad.

[Lizard Queen]

May 2, 2021 18:02:33 GMT -5 Tiny said:

May 2, 2021 17:05:59 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

It really saddens me to read about all the problems these have near them. My little city has these parks scattered throughout--in each neighborhood, and I haven't seen or heard of any problems with them. The bigger, central park near my house did have a drinking fountain destroyed a couple years ago.
My city has its own police force to patrol just the one square mile, though.

I do think it depends on the density of people.  My suburb has 50,000 people in 4 sq miles.  And my suburb is surrounded by other suburbs with high populations (but more square miles sizes).    So people move around, back and forth between suburbs when they are out "killing time" and such.   I'm sure there's easily 250,000 people that I somehow cross paths with when I'm out and about running errands.   

I can see the appeal of a "small town" where once you leave the "town" part you have to drive 20 or 30 minutes to get to a house or the next "small town".     If the local park gets vandalized - I suspect the inhabitants of the town (and probably the police - know if it was some of those "no good" Capulets or the Montagues having a "fun night out".     

In other words - there's different types of issues with different areas/location.


I do think Nidena's good intentions are workable  and doable.  It just that a "pocket park" needs to be a "community" thing - with a lot of people's long term buy in.   

I'm not sure you have the right idea about my city. It is surrounded by another suburban city, and next to the main city of the area. About 100k in the whole metro. 4000 in my city, so not super dense, but the lots are a little smaller than 1/4 acre for the most part. And close by there's another adjacent city we sometimes call Detroit west, because it's got problems.

[gs11rmb]

May 2, 2021 14:17:31 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

I do think the liability would be worse than you can imagine . . . assuming that you could even get an insurance company to insure something like this.

However, you might consider donating such plots to the city to own and maintain, putting legal restrictions on their ability to sell these, etc.  The city would have to want them, though.

You might want to check with a lawyer.

I'm involved in a project at work where multiple organizations want access to a plot of land via a conservation easement.  The company that owns the plot simply wants to donate it and not have the (very low) tax burden.  The city doesn't want to take the land because then they have the responsibility for maintenance.

[TheOtherMe]

May 3, 2021 7:14:41 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

May 2, 2021 14:17:31 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

I'm involved in a project at work where multiple organizations want access to a plot of land via a conservation easement.  The company that owns the plot simply wants to donate it and not have the (very low) tax burden.  The city doesn't want to take the land because then they have the responsibility for maintenance.

This is why the city was more than happy to sell a small triangle of land to my niece and her husband.  Their property surrounded the triangle.  It wasn't useable by the city.  The city practically gave it to them to get rid of it.

[Regis]

The City of Indianapolis has at least 30 pocket parks spread around.  My company has worked on many of those.  If you really want one in your neighborhood, I'd suggest contacting Keep Indianapolis Beautiful and the Indy Parks Department.  I'm sure they'd be more than happy to take land you'd be willing to buy and donate.

[nidena]

May 3, 2021 14:45:46 GMT -5 Regis said:

The City of Indianapolis has at least 30 pocket parks spread around.  My company has worked on many of those.  If you really want one in your neighborhood, I'd suggest contacting Keep Indianapolis Beautiful and the Indy Parks Department.  I'm sure they'd be more than happy to take land you'd be willing to buy and donate.

Well that is awesome!  I just started following KIB on facebook so I'm a little familiar with them.

I wish I could buy all those little plots with crappy houses that Renew Indianapolis is selling and turn those into pocket parks, too. 

[thyme4change]

Call Leslie Knope and start lobbying for the city to create green space. You don't want to own it - that is trouble with a capital T.

[nidena]

May 4, 2021 0:04:49 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Call Leslie Knope and start lobbying for the city to create green space. You don't want to own it - that is trouble with a capital T.

I had to search that name.  It meant nothing to me.  lol

[thyme4change]

May 4, 2021 11:55:43 GMT -5 nidena said:

May 4, 2021 0:04:49 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Call Leslie Knope and start lobbying for the city to create green space. You don't want to own it - that is trouble with a capital T.

I had to search that name.  It meant nothing to me.  lol

Your missing out. It is a great show.

[nittanycheme]

In the Philadelphia area, the PA Horticultural Society partners with the city to do this type of work.  While I don't live in the Philly area, my mom grew up around there.  I donate to support this type of program, with the extra benefit of getting tickets to the PA flower show since I am within driving distance.


PHS link

[Cookies Galore]

May 7, 2021 10:03:29 GMT -5 nittanycheme said:

In the Philadelphia area, the PA Horticultural Society partners with the city to do this type of work.  While I don't live in the Philly area, my mom grew up around there.  I donate to support this type of program, with the extra benefit of getting tickets to the PA flower show since I am within driving distance.


PHS link

I'm in the midst of getting my Tree Tender certification with PHS now! Because of programs like this, we (being my municipality) will be able to get discounted bare root trees. We're something like the second most urban municipality in my county and we've identified areas that could support new trees. PHS does great work (and I love the flower show).