andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 7, 2021 8:06:31 GMT -5
If I were a cop I would not work in an area that is predominately black. Not in today’s world. And yes, there are areas that are predominately black. Actually, I wouldnt be a cop at all in today’s world because a few bad apples and now they are all assumed to be racist and bad. But if I had to be a cop, I would only do so in an area that was predominately white. My life and my safety matter to me and I would think both were in jeopardy if I were a cop in a black area. Everyone is a Monday morning quartback from the safety of their office chairs. A cop saves a black girl from being stabbed by another black girl lunging at her with a knife, and he is vilified. That would be a hard nope from me. A white police officer just doing his job in any area, is good. Anybody that’s willing to be a police officer with the intent to protect and serve all the citizens in his/her area, is aight with me. The ones that are just doing their jobs and being fair to whoever they come into contact with while they’re on duty, I appreciate them and hope no harm ever comes to them and theirs because of their job, on or off duty. But as far as the girl you mentioned, it’s not true that everyone is vilifying the officer that killed her. Not even all Black folks. Some Black people will admit that if it was their child she was trying to stab with that knife, they would want a police officer on the scene to stop her, even if that meant shooting her. And some of us understand that when you’re trying to immediately stop someone from doing whatever they’re doing or trying to do, if you’re going to shoot them with bullets from a gun, upper body mass is where it’s at. Bet you didn’t see that coming, did you? It’s still a tragedy, just because she was so young. But reading the backstory and what all really happened, it’s also a tragedy that the events leading up to that fatal moment even happened in the first place. I don’t think most Black people really care about the race or ethnicity of the police officers in their neighborhoods. Me, personally, I care about police officers knowing that they are expected to be law abiding citizens too, even while on the job with a badge they can try to hide ugly actions behind. We have a problem because some police officers think they can issue the death penalty instead of just doing their jobs. They do not have that kind of authority, as much as some would like to believe. I don’t think that’s too much to ask in these great United States of America. Maybe you would see some things a little differently if it was YOUR husband you had to worry about, or YOUR children. Maybe it would wound your soul a little to be a proud woman like me, that doesn’t take disrespect all that well, but have to teach your children to be docile in the presence of police officers, just in the hopes of them being alive to tell the story of what happened so we can deal with any disrespect or mistreatment later. As long as they’re physically unharmed, please God. Maybe you’d feel differently if you had a son that you knew was not only the low man on the totem pole as far as how this nation is set up, but he’s also the one who is least likely to be “successful” unless he does much more and goes far and beyond his peers, and lastly, even as a teenager, he’s a big ol’ scary threat to people who hate or fear him for no real reason and would just as soon see him dead. Ain't nobody got time to worry about that kind of shit unless there’s real reason to. Well, I don’t. But it’s real, so I do worry. If I ever had a reason to wish I was white (I never have and never would. Nothing against good white folk, I’m just good with all this melanin I bless the world with), it would be so that my most loved ones would be white too, and some things I wouldn’t have to worry about so much. I couldn't have said this better myself. White people will never truly understand the struggle. Some like MT don't care to and are why there is such a racial divide in this country.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on May 7, 2021 8:32:51 GMT -5
I don't know where it became a race thread but this was the point I was trying to make.
I guess you just have to figure out if it was justified or not.
Mowing people down is not going to help imo...... you need to find ways where people can feel that they have a stake in the Country they live in.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on May 7, 2021 8:41:28 GMT -5
The "mostly low level charges" explanation is simple. There hasn't been enough time yet. A few months is a eyeblink in the legal world.
In cases such as these, prosecutors typically start out with the low level charges, to get the defendants in front of a judge and into the system, and then they build up to the more serious stuff.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 7, 2021 8:51:00 GMT -5
The "mostly low level charges" explanation is simple. There hasn't been enough time yet. A few months is a eyeblink in the legal world. In cases such as these, prosecutors typically start out with the low level charges, to get the defendants in front of a judge and into the system, and then they build up to the more serious stuff. This. That was the whole point of the thread about someone pleading and flipping. Just a certain someone is too obtuse or trollish or stupid to see the connection.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 7, 2021 8:52:08 GMT -5
If I were a cop I would not work in an area that is predominately black. Not in today’s world. And yes, there are areas that are predominately black. Actually, I wouldnt be a cop at all in today’s world because a few bad apples and now they are all assumed to be racist and bad. But if I had to be a cop, I would only do so in an area that was predominately white. My life and my safety matter to me and I would think both were in jeopardy if I were a cop in a black area. Everyone is a Monday morning quartback from the safety of their office chairs. A cop saves a black girl from being stabbed by another black girl lunging at her with a knife, and he is vilified. That would be a hard nope from me. A white police officer just doing his job in any area, is good. Anybody that’s willing to be a police officer with the intent to protect and serve all the citizens in his/her area, is aight with me. The ones that are just doing their jobs and being fair to whoever they come into contact with while they’re on duty, I appreciate them and hope no harm ever comes to them and theirs because of their job, on or off duty. But as far as the girl you mentioned, it’s not true that everyone is vilifying the officer that killed her. Not even all Black folks. Some Black people will admit that if it was their child she was trying to stab with that knife, they would want a police officer on the scene to stop her, even if that meant shooting her. And some of us understand that when you’re trying to immediately stop someone from doing whatever they’re doing or trying to do, if you’re going to shoot them with bullets from a gun, upper body mass is where it’s at. Bet you didn’t see that coming, did you? It’s still a tragedy, just because she was so young. But reading the backstory and what all really happened, it’s also a tragedy that the events leading up to that fatal moment even happened in the first place. I don’t think most Black people really care about the race or ethnicity of the police officers in their neighborhoods. Me, personally, I care about police officers knowing that they are expected to be law abiding citizens too, even while on the job with a badge they can try to hide ugly actions behind. We have a problem because some police officers think they can issue the death penalty instead of just doing their jobs. They do not have that kind of authority, as much as some would like to believe. I don’t think that’s too much to ask in these great United States of America. Maybe you would see some things a little differently if it was YOUR husband you had to worry about, or YOUR children. Maybe it would wound your soul a little to be a proud woman like me, that doesn’t take disrespect all that well, but have to teach your children to be docile in the presence of police officers, just in the hopes of them being alive to tell the story of what happened so we can deal with any disrespect or mistreatment later. As long as they’re physically unharmed, please God. Maybe you’d feel differently if you had a son that you knew was not only the low man on the totem pole as far as how this nation is set up, but he’s also the one who is least likely to be “successful” unless he does much more and goes far and beyond his peers, and lastly, even as a teenager, he’s a big ol’ scary threat to people who hate or fear him for no real reason and would just as soon see him dead. Ain't nobody got time to worry about that kind of shit unless there’s real reason to. Well, I don’t. But it’s real, so I do worry. If I ever had a reason to wish I was white (I never have and never would. Nothing against good white folk, I’m just good with all this melanin I bless the world with), it would be so that my most loved ones would be white too, and some things I wouldn’t have to worry about so much. I <3 you, Pink. Your insights and perspectives are priceless.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 7, 2021 9:47:49 GMT -5
it may be true that the "bulk of the protestors" were milling around doing nothing. we are not talking about the bulk of the protestors. we are talking about the thousand or so that beat the shit out of police and damaged, destroyed, or outright stole public property. they don't deserve any leniency, imo. they deserve the full force of law. And the charges are pending and listed. www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1 Not one for insurrection, all low level charges, peruse them all if you will, I did. Yeah, I get blocked for certain lines of reasoning. There is a lot of first hand material available out there to review and assess independent of media and governmental interruption. I encourage everyone to do that for themselves.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 7, 2021 10:20:17 GMT -5
I don't know where it became a race thread but this was the point I was trying to make. I guess you just have to figure out if it was justified or not. Mowing people down is not going to help imo...... you need to find ways where people can feel that they have a stake in the Country they live in.We do: peacefully protest on the sidewalk in front of the U.S. or state capital buildings. No weapons of any sort allowed.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 7, 2021 10:32:43 GMT -5
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 7, 2021 10:46:14 GMT -5
I was playing Diogenes game... I pushed a coworker in front of a taxi. I added that I didn't like the coworker because that is also true. I want to know if you think I'm a good or bad person? How can you make a judgement call with out context? Diogenes seems to be arguing that shooting an unarmed woman at a "protest" is bad. And I'm pretty sure most people would agree with him without any context. He's arguing that if it's NOT ok to shot an unarmed woman based on his statement then ino matter what the circumstances or context it's not ok to shoot an unarmed woman at a "protest". He's arguing a duality I think. So, it would seem I'm a bad person for having pushed my stupid coworker in front of a taxi. (and I do it again in a heart beat. ) It seems odd that Diogenes would opt to argue for something "out of context" as it isn't really a logic thing. It is logical to do that if you want to bait people or are trying to be humorous. Baiting people is kind of meanspirited. I like to think the best of people - so I'm going with he's trying to be funny and make people laugh at his silliness. I think Diogenes is pretty smart - so he knows what he's doing. (and I have experience with older siblings (bless their hearts I love them! (that's code for they are assholes that I love for those who aren't in the know)) who do things like this.) Yes. (bolded) The other half of the duality is the well used gun deaths stance by same posters.
Double standard a game ?
No baiting at all. I'll leave the baiting topic for those who choose to discuss those things. I have no interest in self perceived 'position' on a forum What duality about guns? To the best of my knowledge there isn't a "no one should have gun - not even police (or by extension the military) because sometimes civilians commit mass murders with guns" That would be a duality: it's ok for EVERYONE to have guns versus NO ONE should have guns. To the best of my understanding: it's an issue of what kinds of guns should be allowed based on the person buying/using the gun. And that is NOT a duality. And it does sound like you are trying to 'teach a lesson'. You seem to be forcing the issue into a "everyone gets a gun or nobody gets a gun" argument.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 7, 2021 12:08:56 GMT -5
Nuance is dead.
It takes too much intelligence.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 7, 2021 12:50:52 GMT -5
A WELL REGULATED MILITIA.......
the first four words are never mentioned
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dondub
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Post by dondub on May 7, 2021 13:02:53 GMT -5
A WELL REGULATED MILITIA....... the first four words are never mentioned That’s all comprehensive background checks are, a well regulated way to allow citizens to own and bear arms. I’ve never understood why all the NRA types are so opposed to the Constitution.😎
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 7, 2021 14:32:43 GMT -5
A WELL REGULATED MILITIA....... the first four words are never mentioned That’s all comprehensive background checks are, a well regulated way to allow citizens to own and bear arms. I’ve never understood why all the NRA types are so opposed to the Constitution.😎 Marketing.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 7, 2021 14:51:05 GMT -5
What duality about guns? To the best of my knowledge there isn't a "no one should have gun - not even police (or by extension the military) because sometimes civilians commit mass murders with guns" That would be a duality: it's ok for EVERYONE to have guns versus NO ONE should have guns. To the best of my understanding: it's an issue of what kinds of guns should be allowed based on the person buying/using the gun. And that is NOT a duality. And it does sound like you are trying to 'teach a lesson'. You seem to be forcing the issue into a "everyone gets a gun or nobody gets a gun" argument. Nope, absolutes are an impossible goal, even conversationally. Why do you only use absolutes to "argue" your point about the policeman that shot Ashli Babbit's?
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on May 7, 2021 15:01:49 GMT -5
A WELL REGULATED MILITIA....... the first four words are never mentioned That’s all comprehensive background checks are, a well regulated way to allow citizens to own and bear arms. I’ve never understood why all the NRA types are so opposed to the Constitution.😎 Maybe because a lot of the NRA types couldn't pass those background checks? I'm just going off my own personal experience. Most of the gun nuts I know have absolutely no business around a gun! They are either wife beaters, paranoid addicts, suffer from some mental illness, or a combination of all of the above (as was the case with my ex- husband). Even when they are ordered not to have guns, they still get them through other means.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 7, 2021 15:35:57 GMT -5
A WELL REGULATED MILITIA....... the first four words are never mentioned That’s all comprehensive background checks are, a well regulated way to allow citizens to own and bear arms. I’ve never understood why all the NRA types are so opposed to the Constitution.😎 the thinking is if you wouldn't want them in the army, you don't want them owning guns. for Jefferson, these were precisely the same consideration.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on May 7, 2021 16:57:26 GMT -5
That’s all comprehensive background checks are, a well regulated way to allow citizens to own and bear arms. I’ve never understood why all the NRA types are so opposed to the Constitution.😎 the thinking is if you wouldn't want them in the army, you don't want them owning guns. for Jefferson, these were precisely the same consideration. The problem with that is we have a lot of people in the army, that really have no business being in the military. Think of how many ex or current military were involved in the insurrection that took place on the 6th! Also, to add to my comment above, my ex was in the army. He really shouldn't have been! Last I heard he had fled Nevada on DV and child endangerment charges. There are warrants out for his arrest in 2 states I know of. But he was a good soldier, because he loved to kill!
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 7, 2021 18:15:52 GMT -5
Why do you only use absolutes to "argue" your point about the policeman that shot Ashli Babbit's? Because I'm not ok with it, she should have been tasered. (Reply #92) One unarmed woman, the only one small enough to fit through the window, not the door, as described by others right here. Tasers will incapacitate, preventing her from doing anything. 'Should have' is not an absolute. and what about the rest of the mob behind her? serious question that I would like a straight answer for, bc you haven't answered that question yet. I was surprised to see 6 new pages on this thread when I woke up this morning.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 7, 2021 18:15:53 GMT -5
the thinking is if you wouldn't want them in the army, you don't want them owning guns. for Jefferson, these were precisely the same consideration. The problem with that is we have a lot of people in the army, that really have no business being in the military. Think of how many ex or current military were involved in the insurrection that took place on the 6th! Also, to add to my comment above, my ex was in the army. He really shouldn't have been! Last I heard he had fled Nevada on DV and child endangerment charges. There are warrants out for his arrest in 2 states I know of. But he was a good soldier, because he loved to kill!OK, for some reason that made me immediately think of Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant Massacree It's a 25 minute song. It's, well, a war protest song and about Alice and her Restaurant.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 7, 2021 18:22:29 GMT -5
Why do you only use absolutes to "argue" your point about the policeman that shot Ashli Babbit's? Because I'm not ok with it, she should have been tasered. (Reply #92) One unarmed woman, the only one small enough to fit through the window, not the door, as described by others right here. Tasers will incapacitate, preventing her from doing anything. 'Should have' is not an absolute. Are you NOT ok with any unarmed person being shot by police when they could have been tasered or incapacitated in some non lethal way?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 7, 2021 19:00:21 GMT -5
and what about the rest of the mob behind her? serious question that I would like a straight answer for, bc you haven't answered that question yet. I was surprised to see 6 new pages on this thread when I woke up this morning. It was already posted that she was the only one small enough to fit through. (the window) I didn't see that video, but accepted the description as true. Might of been yesterday. Edit; Found it, reply #118 she didn't climb through that window in a vacuum. so again, straight answer. it wasn't "just one woman standing behind a door"
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 7, 2021 20:02:02 GMT -5
she didn't climb through that window in a vacuum. so again, straight answer. it wasn't "just one woman standing behind a door" I was told she wasn't at the door, so no, no woman at the door. I was in error saying she was at the door, I previously thought bills video with the glass being broken in a door is the one she as trying to crawl through. She was climbing through a window in a different spot, by herself, as she was the only one able to fit through. How many were behind her at the small window ? I don't know. 5/500 ? There were 5/7 people in the video bills showed at a door. The door had cracked glass, but still barricaded shut when the video stopped. For me, the tactical situation of one small window, is easily defended by taser. Hence my opinion she shouldn't of been shot with a firearm. She was unarmed. I took my content from your own posts, you said she was standing at the door. do you discount the mob of thousands behind her? you still haven't answered that. I will say this, I'm going offline for the night. don't take it personally if I don't respond til the am.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 7, 2021 20:09:19 GMT -5
and what about the rest of the mob behind her? serious question that I would like a straight answer for, bc you haven't answered that question yet. I was surprised to see 6 new pages on this thread when I woke up this morning. It was already posted that she was the only one small enough to fit through. (the window) I didn't see that video, but accepted the description as true. Might of been yesterday. Edit; Found it, reply #118 Here is reply #118: She was shot through a glass door. Going by the video, few people were at the door, only one or two voices can be heard. If they did manage to break enough of the glass, they could of been tasered. Don't think it was right to shoot though the door at people that could be plainly seen. Not true. The window was broken and she was climbing through. It was a window not a door. When lives are at risk, even if it is the cops life, a taser is not an acceptable choice. Shooting at a leg is not an acceptable choice. You shoot for center of mass to eliminate any threat. No reference to size.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on May 8, 2021 9:35:40 GMT -5
But I thought this was just a deep state ploy: Babbit 'Fake Death' Aimed to Fool People The claim was first made in a video posted on Brighteon. It claimed that Babbit did not die after the shooting. The article began by informing readers that they were played. "Chalk one more for the DeepState. Sheeple will still believe whatever they are told," it went on. The QAnon official channel went on to justify its claim through a slow down and stop motion to claim that the Capital Police Officer swung his gun in a different direction before firing. www.ibtimes.sg/ashli-babbit-alive-well-conspiracy-theory-says-gun-used-shooting-did-not-point-her-54751
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 8, 2021 9:55:10 GMT -5
But I thought this was just a deep state ploy: Babbit 'Fake Death' Aimed to Fool People The claim was first made in a video posted on Brighteon. It claimed that Babbit did not die after the shooting. The article began by informing readers that they were played. "Chalk one more for the DeepState. Sheeple will still believe whatever they are told," it went on. The QAnon official channel went on to justify its claim through a slow down and stop motion to claim that the Capital Police Officer swung his gun in a different direction before firing. www.ibtimes.sg/ashli-babbit-alive-well-conspiracy-theory-says-gun-used-shooting-did-not-point-her-54751My mind always goes to the same next step with such claims: "Say this is true. What is gained by doing this?"
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 8, 2021 11:04:39 GMT -5
Are you NOT ok with any unarmed person being shot by police when they could have been tasered or incapacitated in some non lethal way? Yes, if the situation allows. For what was described of this situation, one unarmed woman squeezing through a window would allow taser use. How do you determine the intent of "one unarmed woman" How are you determining what events lead to why she was "squeezing through a window" and how are you determining that it was safe for a police officer to get to a distance that "would allow taser use" ??
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on May 8, 2021 11:14:37 GMT -5
But I thought this was just a deep state ploy: Babbit 'Fake Death' Aimed to Fool People The claim was first made in a video posted on Brighteon. It claimed that Babbit did not die after the shooting. The article began by informing readers that they were played. "Chalk one more for the DeepState. Sheeple will still believe whatever they are told," it went on. The QAnon official channel went on to justify its claim through a slow down and stop motion to claim that the Capital Police Officer swung his gun in a different direction before firing. www.ibtimes.sg/ashli-babbit-alive-well-conspiracy-theory-says-gun-used-shooting-did-not-point-her-54751My mind always goes to the same next step with such claims: "Say this is true. What is gained by doing this?" To turn the sheeple against Trump. The protestors at the Capitol were peaceful, hugging and kissing the police, according to Trump. She is part of the deep state that staged the shooting.....
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 8, 2021 11:32:51 GMT -5
But I thought this was just a deep state ploy: Babbit 'Fake Death' Aimed to Fool People The claim was first made in a video posted on Brighteon. It claimed that Babbit did not die after the shooting. The article began by informing readers that they were played. "Chalk one more for the DeepState. Sheeple will still believe whatever they are told," it went on. The QAnon official channel went on to justify its claim through a slow down and stop motion to claim that the Capital Police Officer swung his gun in a different direction before firing. www.ibtimes.sg/ashli-babbit-alive-well-conspiracy-theory-says-gun-used-shooting-did-not-point-her-54751The parents of Babbitt should sue the person or group which claims Babbitt is alive. Just like the parents of all the children murdered in the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre are suing Alex Jones for his claim the children never died let alone were shot.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 8, 2021 21:36:06 GMT -5
she didn't climb through that window in a vacuum. so again, straight answer. it wasn't "just one woman standing behind a door" I was told she wasn't at the door, so no, no woman at the door. I was in error saying she was at the door, I previously thought bills video with the glass being broken in a door is the one she as trying to crawl through. She was climbing through a window in a different spot, by herself, as she was the only one able to fit through. How many were behind her at the small window ? I don't know. 5/500 ? There were 5/7 people in the video bills showed at a door. The door had cracked glass, but still barricaded shut when the video stopped. For me, the tactical situation of one small window, is easily defended by taser. Hence my opinion she shouldn't of been shot with a firearm. She was unarmed. So, I asked this question earlier, and I didn't see an answer. I dont know much about tasers. If you have one taser and hit one person with it, how many minutes until you can hit a second person. Can you release the leads and load a new cartridge in a moment? Also, how long is the recovery period from getting hit with a taser? Do you lay on the ground for 5 minutes or 5 hours? When could you get yourself mobile again on your own?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 8, 2021 22:10:31 GMT -5
the thinking is if you wouldn't want them in the army, you don't want them owning guns. for Jefferson, these were precisely the same consideration. The problem with that is we have a lot of people in the army, that really have no business being in the military. Think of how many ex or current military were involved in the insurrection that took place on the 6th! Also, to add to my comment above, my ex was in the army. He really shouldn't have been! Last I heard he had fled Nevada on DV and child endangerment charges. There are warrants out for his arrest in 2 states I know of. But he was a good soldier, because he loved to kill! that is precisely why 2nd Amendment was made. so that we AVOIDED federalizing the Army.
now that we have done so, the 2nd Amendment is null and void. the federal government has been violating it since WW1. and, resultantly, civilians have had no right to gun ownership since that time, until the matter is resolved by the courts (which, ttbomk, it has not been).
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