Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 13, 2021 21:11:12 GMT -5
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 13, 2021 22:24:54 GMT -5
Put into perspective, this is about a 1:1,000,000 risk. Birth control pills are a 1:1,000 risk. |
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 13, 2021 22:43:24 GMT -5
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 14, 2021 0:15:45 GMT -5
Not comparing the blood clots, but the risk of a side effect. It doesn’t matter that they are different types of clots. Why is a 1:1,000 a perfectly acceptable risk for one drug, but 1:1,000,000 is not? |
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Apr 14, 2021 8:17:09 GMT -5
Not comparing the blood clots, but the risk of a side effect. It doesn’t matter that they are different types of clots. Why is a 1:1,000 a perfectly acceptable risk for one drug, but 1:1,000,000 is not? Type of blood clot is unusual - coronary venous sinus clot (think in the US it was found in young women) and can’t use heparin. Also same type clotting as found in the AZ similar type vaccine. For BC the clots found are usually DVT deep venous thrombosis in leg which may break off to pulmonary clot Hopefully the pause is only to collect more data snd to revise labeling and warn medical staff, recipients of symptoms and to determine treatment if occurance If the vaccine clots are associated with hormonal BC then perhaps the J&J and AZ vaccines may be contraindicated in women taking hormonal BC Read some country ?? Restricted the AZ to older adults |
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Apr 14, 2021 8:37:26 GMT -5
Not comparing the blood clots, but the risk of a side effect. It doesn’t matter that they are different types of clots. Why is a 1:1,000 a perfectly acceptable risk for one drug, but 1:1,000,000 is not? Type of blood clot is unusual - coronary venous sinus clot (think in the US it was found in young women) and can’t use heparin. Also same type clotting as found in the AZ similar type vaccine. For BC the clots found are usually DVT deep venous thrombosis in leg which may break off to pulmonary clot Hopefully the pause is only to collect more data snd to revise labeling and warn medical staff, recipients of symptoms and to determine treatment if occurance If the vaccine clots are associated with hormonal BC then perhaps the J&J and AZ vaccines may be contraindicated in women taking hormonal BC Read some country ?? Restricted the AZ to older adults |
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 14, 2021 8:43:23 GMT -5
Thankfully DH and I haven't had reactions and are more than three weeks post vaccination. Although I would say our chances of having problems based on current knowledge would still be considered nil.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 14, 2021 9:33:22 GMT -5
My DH and I also had the J&J vaccine, we are about 1 month out, so we should be safe from Blood Clot worries.
I did have chills and body aches though.
I was thinking this am about the reactions some people had to Gardasil and that they said it was still important to get the Vaccine.
Idk, but if there is a surplus of other vaccines available - they can pause the J&J one and do more testing I guess.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 14, 2021 12:06:36 GMT -5
Anybody watch the Daily Show? It ended up with a clip of all the drug commercials that listed blood clots as a side effect.
Spoiler alert - it was a lot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2021 14:01:17 GMT -5
Read some country ?? Restricted the AZ to older adults Germany, with informed consent. DDIL is 35 and had a superficial thrombosis in a vein in her leg after her second baby (got preventative treatment before the third and does not use BC pills). I suspect they'd discourage her from taking the AZ version or J&J versions. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 14, 2021 14:30:52 GMT -5
I just heard from my grocery store working wife that she has back slid into putting off getting vaccinated because she heard something about this blood clot thing. I simply refuse to fight, because that is what it would quick be, on the issue. So I get to stay nervous until I get my second Moderna shot on the 28th and then two more weeks.
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anciana
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Post by anciana on Apr 14, 2021 15:43:28 GMT -5
I just heard from my grocery store working wife that she has back slid into putting off getting vaccinated because she heard something about this blood clot thing. I simply refuse to fight, because that is what it would quick be, on the issue. So I get to stay nervous until I get my second Moderna shot on the 28th and then two more weeks. Hopefully not too nervous! Here is an article about effectiveness of the vaccine two weeks after the first shot. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 14, 2021 15:47:12 GMT -5
I just heard from my grocery store working wife that she has back slid into putting off getting vaccinated because she heard something about this blood clot thing. I simply refuse to fight, because that is what it would quick be, on the issue. So I get to stay nervous until I get my second Moderna shot on the 28th and then two more weeks. Hopefully not too nervous! Here is an article about effectiveness of the vaccine two weeks after the first shot. Thank you. That is emotionally helpful. |
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 14, 2021 19:42:24 GMT -5
I got my first at 2:30ish today..... Where is that on effectiveness?  |
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anciana
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Post by anciana on Apr 15, 2021 10:07:37 GMT -5
I got my first at 2:30ish today..... Where is that on effectiveness? [img src="https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/smug.gif" class="smile" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png" alt=" ![]() "] I believe you like to see data, graphs and stuff like that, right? Here's couple of charts (can't figure out how to insert image) in this older article  |
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 15, 2021 10:22:34 GMT -5
I got my first at 2:30ish today..... Where is that on effectiveness? [img src="https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/smug.gif" class="smile" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png" alt=" ![]() "] I believe you like to see data, graphs and stuff like that, right? Here's couple of charts (can't figure out how to insert image) in this older article Thanks! Nice graphics  Looks like 13 more days till I can start feeling safer... My second shot got scheduled 17 days after first. Thought suppose to be 21. Did he make a mistake, or is this ok? Or should I try to reschedule for a few days later? |
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Apr 15, 2021 11:07:27 GMT -5
I believe you like to see data, graphs and stuff like that, right? Here's couple of charts (can't figure out how to insert image) in this older article Thanks! Nice graphics [img src="https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/wink.png" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png" alt=" ![]() " class="smile"] Looks like 13 more days till I can start feeling safer... My second shot got scheduled 17 days after first. Thought suppose to be 21. Did he make a mistake, or is this ok? Or should I try to reschedule for a few days later? Mine got scheduled for 17 days too. Works out great for me so I'll take it just like it is. |
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Apr 15, 2021 11:52:50 GMT -5
My second shot got scheduled 17 days after first. Thought suppose to be 21. Did he make a mistake, or is this ok? Or should I try to reschedule for a few days later?
What happens if I am late for the second dose of a two-dose series vaccine?
The Pfizer product is a two-dose vaccination series given 21 days apart. The second dose is allowed within a four-day grace period (days 17-21). If more than 21 days have passed since the first dose, the second dose should be given at the earliest opportunity. You do not have to repeat any doses.
The Moderna product is a two-dose vaccination series given 28 days apart. The second dose is allowed within a four-day grace period (days 24-28). If more than 28 days have passed since the first dose, the second dose should be given at the earliest opportunity. You do not have to repeat any doses.
source wvumedicine.org/news/article/wvu-medicine-officials-answer-frequently-asked-questions-aboutcovid-vaccine/ |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 15, 2021 12:07:46 GMT -5
My second shot got scheduled 17 days after first. Thought suppose to be 21. Did he make a mistake, or is this ok? Or should I try to reschedule for a few days later?
What happens if I am late for the second dose of a two-dose series vaccine?
The Pfizer product is a two-dose vaccination series given 21 days apart. The second dose is allowed within a four-day grace period (days 17-21). If more than 21 days have passed since the first dose, the second dose should be given at the earliest opportunity. You do not have to repeat any doses.
The Moderna product is a two-dose vaccination series given 28 days apart. The second dose is allowed within a four-day grace period (days 24-28). If more than 28 days have passed since the first dose, the second dose should be given at the earliest opportunity. You do not have to repeat any doses.
source wvumedicine.org/news/article/wvu-medicine-officials-answer-frequently-asked-questions-aboutcovid-vaccine/My best guess is that the second vaccines in the clinical trial were given in a 4 day range, and that is the reason why there is this supposed grace period....because the drug companies know exactly how it works within these dates, and that’s all they are willing to attest to. I also strongly suspect that the schedule drug company put together was the fastest that they could vaccinate everyone reasonably. Biologically, there can be as long as 3 months between a primary or secondary dose to elicit a high immune response. So convenience is taken into account along with compliance. I got vaccinated with Shingrix vaccine last winter and the instructions were to come back for the second vaccine within 2-4 months. As time goes by, you are more likely to forget. Weeks are easier to remember than months. This being said, many in Canada are needing to wait months between vaccines. My MIL was vaccinated the same day we were, early April. She goes back in July for her second Moderna vaccine. I have another friend in Vancouver who has been similarly scheduled. |
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 15, 2021 12:47:35 GMT -5
Read some country ?? Restricted the AZ to older adults Germany, with informed consent. DDIL is 35 and had a superficial thrombosis in a vein in her leg after her second baby (got preventative treatment before the third and does not use BC pills). I suspect they'd discourage her from taking the AZ version or J&J versions. I'd have quoted the original, but it seems to have disappeared. that time stamp is a lot wonky, too. wonder what's going on with PB? I think France/UK were limiting the AZ shots as well. hopefully debthaven doesn't mind the tag. I remember her talking about this before she and her DH got their shots. |
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Apr 15, 2021 12:49:46 GMT -5
Hi Chiver Yes most of Europe is only giving the AZ to people over 55 or 60 (depends on the country). That's not the case in the UK though (yet?) The J&J is being held back here too now, they were due to start giving it this week. (Just got home and saw Chiver's tag. Have not read the rest of the thread yet, sorry.)
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 15, 2021 15:27:54 GMT -5
From what I've seen, there is a range. I just got my 1st dose on Monday the 12th and my second is scheduled for May 3.
What happens if I am late for the second dose of a two-dose series vaccine?
The Pfizer product is a two-dose vaccination series given 21 days apart. The second dose is allowed within a four-day grace period (days 17-21). If more than 21 days have passed since the first dose, the second dose should be given at the earliest opportunity. You do not have to repeat any doses.
The Moderna product is a two-dose vaccination series given 28 days apart. The second dose is allowed within a four-day grace period (days 24-28). If more than 28 days have passed since the first dose, the second dose should be given at the earliest opportunity. You do not have to repeat any doses.
source wvumedicine.org/news/article/wvu-medicine-officials-answer-frequently-asked-questions-aboutcovid-vaccine/ My best guess is that the second vaccines in the clinical trial were given in a 4 day range, and that is the reason why there is this supposed grace period....because the drug companies know exactly how it works within these dates, and that’s all they are willing to attest to. I also strongly suspect that the schedule drug company put together was the fastest that they could vaccinate everyone reasonably. Biologically, there can be as long as 3 months between a primary or secondary dose to elicit a high immune response. So convenience is taken into account along with compliance. I got vaccinated with Shingrix vaccine last winter and the instructions were to come back for the second vaccine within 2-4 months. As time goes by, you are more likely to forget. Weeks are easier to remember than months. This being said, many in Canada are needing to wait months between vaccines. My MIL was vaccinated the same day we were, early April. She goes back in July for her second Moderna vaccine. I have another friend in Vancouver who has been similarly scheduled. I found one article last night that said better longer than shorter in the interval, that you want to let the process develop so to speak before giving your immune system the next phase. I guess. ETA: Looks like I am at that 17 day mark for #2, so I think I can live with that. Wonder if they will be tracking and then have new recs after we are all done? I'm fine with getting sick, just don't want to be super sick for a long time or die or get disabled in some way. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 15, 2021 15:41:02 GMT -5
My best guess is that the second vaccines in the clinical trial were given in a 4 day range, and that is the reason why there is this supposed grace period....because the drug companies know exactly how it works within these dates, and that’s all they are willing to attest to. I also strongly suspect that the schedule drug company put together was the fastest that they could vaccinate everyone reasonably. Biologically, there can be as long as 3 months between a primary or secondary dose to elicit a high immune response. So convenience is taken into account along with compliance. I got vaccinated with Shingrix vaccine last winter and the instructions were to come back for the second vaccine within 2-4 months. As time goes by, you are more likely to forget. Weeks are easier to remember than months. This being said, many in Canada are needing to wait months between vaccines. My MIL was vaccinated the same day we were, early April. She goes back in July for her second Moderna vaccine. I have another friend in Vancouver who has been similarly scheduled. I found one article last night that said better longer than shorter in the interval, that you want to let the process develop so to speak before giving your immune system the next phase. I guess Entirely possible. However, there are a couple issues. First, the goal was to get immunity as quickly as possible. So this confers immunity in about 6 weeks....which is pretty fast. Also, the more time between vaccines, the more attrition where patients won’t get their second dose. Optimally, you’d want to have your antibody level drop to squat for a couple of reasons....the most important ones would be that it forces the development of new memory cells and that any circulating antibody won’t interfere with eliciting a secondary immune response from revaccination. Circulating antibody can interfere with the vaccine hitting the tissues and cells it needs to hit for an optimal response. |
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Apr 15, 2021 16:06:01 GMT -5
Rukh O'Rorke the period for the second AZ shot is 9-12 weeks. The studies say that waiting 12 weeks gives you better protection. Despite that, DH and I plan to get our second shots earlier, at 9 and 10 weeks respectively. We already have an appt for that date. This is a conscious decision because we want to be double-vaccinated ASAP in the hopes of being able to travel to the UK in late May when our second grandchild is born. Otherwise I would have waited a week or two. (We also have our original appts for two weeks later. The minute we get vaccinated, I'll cancel those. But not before.)
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Apr 15, 2021 16:21:59 GMT -5
This Twitter thread is by a physician who analyzes the blood clots observed with the J&J vaccine and concludes shouldn’t be administered to women 18-50
Not just clots in brain sinuses but a potential thrombotic cascade
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 15, 2021 17:45:52 GMT -5
Yesterday, a poster posted their comments here. At least two posters replied to the comments.
Later in the day those three posts were no longer here.
Did anyone else later notice the missing posts?
Thanks.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 15, 2021 17:55:46 GMT -5
Rukh O'Rorke the period for the second AZ shot is 9-12 weeks. The studies say that waiting 12 weeks gives you better protection. Despite that, DH and I plan to get our second shots earlier, at 9 and 10 weeks respectively. We already have an appt for that date. This is a conscious decision because we want to be double-vaccinated ASAP in the hopes of being able to travel to the UK in late May when our second grandchild is born. Otherwise I would have waited a week or two. (We also have our original appts for two weeks later. The minute we get vaccinated, I'll cancel those. But not before.) ooo- congrats! hope the travel works out and you can be there. I thought AZ was just one like J&J.....hmmm |
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 16, 2021 2:55:25 GMT -5
Not exactly the same but the both work with an adenovirus vector. They are traditional vaccines.
AZ is not being given to the under 30s in the UK... The risk of mortality is low in that age group and its weighed against the risk of the vaccine. They are being offered one of the others.
Our vaccines (pfizer, AZ, Moderna)... are being given 3 months apart... Since most of the efficacy is in the first dose and they wanted as many people protected as possible.
Its fine.. I wouldn't worry about it,
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 16, 2021 17:12:27 GMT -5
it's interesting that europe is doing get everyone one shot first vs US which is doing the recommended protocol and having many waiting. But I know lots of people have got the shot so maybe some are just waiting or not interested?
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 18, 2021 5:02:16 GMT -5
Its up to individual governments which method they approve.
The first shot will give a lot of protection but its not 100%...... and there has been a few people who have still been infected after one shot (although not seriously)
We have the test kits which you do yourselves ....twice a week, to make sure we can go in to School. (Sunday, Wednesday) Surprisingly accurate, when after a positive result, its followed by a full test.
Picked up lots of kids this way.
........and I do feel vulnerable in School, walking down a packed corridor with crowds of teenagers bouncing around.
The sun is shining...... the beer gardens are open so it doesn't feel as bleak.
but we have worrying new variants about ...latest one from India ..... so its just a case of muddling through and hoping we don't get whacked by a third wave.
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