Mrs. Dinero
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Post by Mrs. Dinero on Mar 9, 2021 11:59:32 GMT -5
DH and I were discussing retirement. He’ll retire in 10 years. We should have plenty of savings. If our investments continue to grow, even at a conservative rate, we shouldn’t run out. We have lived below our means for majority of our lives. Will we be able to spend the money? What has been your experience? Do people ever start living more lavishly after retirement? I decided I’m spending money on my hair this year. I didn’t get my hair done once in 2020. The ends were disgusting. I vowed never again. My schnauzer gets groomed every 5 to 6 weeks. Just trying to picture letting go of purse strings after all these years. Can it happen?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 9, 2021 12:20:56 GMT -5
Yes, it can happen. Thrifty people can learn to spend in retirement, especially on travel. It does not necessarily get out of control.
Unfortunately, learning how to spend more money can be severely crimped if you are looking after your parents or parents-in-law.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Mar 9, 2021 12:39:18 GMT -5
I guess I'm not understanding. Are you saying you've over saved for retirement and want to spend more than you were pre-retirement to spend it all down so you don't end up dying with a large nest egg? I don't worry about that a whole lot. If my kids get an inheritance I'm fine with that.
But to answer the question, my mom and stepdad are definitely living more lavishly in retirement than they were before. We were a family of 5 living in probably an 1800 square foot house with 3 bedrooms and 2 baths and they drove old cars. Now they're in a huge house with shops fancier than a lot of people's houses. Drive nice vehicles, travel a lot...throw money at the kids and grandkids. I think as time goes on it's easier to see where you stand financially and feel more confident that blowing 10K on a trip is not going to change anything. I mean when you're 50...will your investments last another 50 years? Even if you are on track, it still probably involves some faith in the market cooperating.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 9, 2021 12:52:57 GMT -5
I'm working on it. It's hard though, especially with travel curtailed for the moment. I just received my tax refund of $1800 for the two earlier stimulus checks. I decided I would try to blow the money on things I don't need and would not have bought otherwise, so it cannot be things like travel or home repairs and upgrades. I had done about $600 in January in anticipation and have plans for a few hundred more, but am having difficulty needlessly spending even that amount. To now have another $1400 on the way too? Guess I'll just try harder!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 9, 2021 13:10:09 GMT -5
In what world is getting a haircut once a year considered lavish? I’m pretty low maintaining and cheap, and even I draw the line at not forgoing basic grooming.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2021 13:20:27 GMT -5
I'm in that fortunate position but I don't feel an obligation to spend. As I noted in another thread I withdraw about 3%/year when 4% is considered safe. Before COVID (and, I hope, after) I went for more extravagant travel, especially after DH died- more remote destinations, small-group tours and cruises, Business Class on long-haul flights. Two major trips a year is still enough.
I have no desire to upgrade to a more splendid house with all the additional taxes, maintenance, etc. I haven't bought furniture or other home decor in years- perfectly happy with what I have. My clothing budget is tiny- I have all I need. When I bought a Honda Civic my financial advisor laughed and told me I should buy a BMW. Like...why?
My unspent cash goes to charities and my grandchildren's 529 accounts. There are 3 kids (oldest is 7) so there's plenty of need there.
So, short answer... no. Travel is a possible exception.
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Mrs. Dinero
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Post by Mrs. Dinero on Mar 9, 2021 13:43:22 GMT -5
In what world is getting a haircut once a year considered lavish? I’m pretty low maintaining and cheap, and even I draw the line at not forgoing basic grooming. Going forward I’m getting my hair done every 3 or so months. Never said I was going once a year.
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Mrs. Dinero
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Post by Mrs. Dinero on Mar 9, 2021 13:44:28 GMT -5
Oh and we don’t plan on leaving an inheritance. It’s OUR money that WE worked hard for.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 9, 2021 13:46:49 GMT -5
I'm in that fortunate position but I don't feel an obligation to spend. As I noted in another thread I withdraw about 3%/year when 4% is considered safe. Before COVID (and, I hope, after) I went for more extravagant travel, especially after DH died- more remote destinations, small-group tours and cruises, Business Class on long-haul flights. Two major trips a year is still enough. I have no desire to upgrade to a more splendid house with all the additional taxes, maintenance, etc. I haven't bought furniture or other home decor in years- perfectly happy with what I have. My clothing budget is tiny- I have all I need. When I bought a Honda Civic my financial advisor laughed and told me I should buy a BMW. Like...why? My unspent cash goes to charities and my grandchildren's 529 accounts. There are 3 kids (oldest is 7) so there's plenty of need there. So, short answer... no. Travel is a possible exception. We live fairly simply but the one thing that we have increased has been our travel budget. We drive 14 year old cars, don’t spend a lot of money on things like clothes and stuff. We do have season tickets to the ballet and opera in Seattle. On some ticket days (those with evening performances), this sometimes includes a stay in Seattle and dinner out, so we aren’t driving late at night. We have a social membership at the local country club, mainly because it is a good place to take friends and a comfortable place to eat out. The cost is not much more than my old gym membership. Travel is the largest line item in our budget. We are going and doing while we can, because we know there will be a time where it becomes too difficult.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Mar 9, 2021 14:06:28 GMT -5
The one danger as you get older is, do you have enough if one of you ends up in a nursing home? Sadly, an obscene amount of money went into my Mom's care the last few years of her life. She deserved that good care, but burned through a lot of savings at the end, because physically I just couldn't handle someone confined to a wheelchair. Just so you know, if your money is gone, nursing homes only keep so many spaces open for people who are down to Medicaid.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Mar 9, 2021 14:36:40 GMT -5
We're working on it. I really struggle. DH is a spender and can be pretty impulsive. But he grew up being around money and got a sizeable inheritance about 20 years ago which we mostly banked and it has more than doubled in value. When I was younger I was nearly homeless twice. I knew there would be NO support for me and quite frankly we came close to financially supporting each of my parents. Add that to DH's family's side of longivity; his grandfather lived to 102! So yeah, I worry about running out of money and living like a miser in old age. Our big splurges this year were 1) Replacing my 15 year old 4Runner with about 180k miles with a fully loaded Mazada CX5. 2) Choosing not to rent out our AZ house again and see how much we enjoy having a second home. 3)Buying solar panels which are likely not going to pay back before we sell the house. My next splurge is going to hire a gardener, probably just once a month. With us gone more and hopefully post Covid, getting a couple of big trips in, I want the house to be more lock and leave.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2021 14:45:22 GMT -5
The one danger as you get older is, do you have enough if one of you ends up in a nursing home? Sadly, an obscene amount of money went into my Mom's care the last few years of her life. She deserved that good care, but burned through a lot of savings at the end, because physically I just couldn't handle someone confined to a wheelchair. Just so you know, if your money is gone, nursing homes only keep so many spaces open for people who are down to Medicaid. My number one priority is not outliving my savings. What I spend in a year right now is about what good LTC costs and most of my other expenses would go to zero in LTC- house, car, etc. since I don't have the scary scenario of a healthy spouse in the home. I have no intention of relying on Medicaid- your choices narrow and as the states get more and more aging Baby Boomers who need care applying for Medicaid, who knows what will happen as far as eligibility criteria, how much the state reimburses LTC facilities and the quality of care. Even now some LTC facilities are closing because they're not getting enough from Medicaid. I remember reading an article in the Boston Globe about one LTC home owner who was taking in some of the people displaced by other homes closing even though he'd lose money on them.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 9, 2021 15:17:27 GMT -5
The one danger as you get older is, do you have enough if one of you ends up in a nursing home? Sadly, an obscene amount of money went into my Mom's care the last few years of her life. She deserved that good care, but burned through a lot of savings at the end, because physically I just couldn't handle someone confined to a wheelchair. Just so you know, if your money is gone, nursing homes only keep so many spaces open for people who are down to Medicaid. My number one priority is not outliving my savings. What I spend in a year right now is about what good LTC costs and most of my other expenses would go to zero in LTC- house, car, etc. since I don't have the scary scenario of a healthy spouse in the home. I have no intention of relying on Medicaid- your choices narrow and as the states get more and more aging Baby Boomers who need care applying for Medicaid, who knows what will happen as far as eligibility criteria, how much the state reimburses LTC facilities and the quality of care. Even now some LTC facilities are closing because they're not getting enough from Medicaid. I remember reading an article in the Boston Globe about one LTC home owner who was taking in some of the people displaced by other homes closing even though he'd lose money on them. When I was in a rehab unit, it was also a nursing home. It was a fairly nice one. My insurance was billed $300/day, so $9000/mo or over $100k/ year. These were 2012 rates, so likely higher now.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 9, 2021 15:37:44 GMT -5
You've never struck me as particularly frugal to begin with, covid aside...Is there a reason why you think you won't be able to spend your money? Unless your NW is mid 7 figures or higher. I could see the "problem" in trying to burn through, say 7-8 million in 20-25 years. But, again, I don't really see you having a problem doing that. But, I'm a big believer in past behaviors being a predictor of future ones. Again, in non-pandemic times,
I know PP talked about nursing homes and what not. The nice assisted living place was running 8K a month for a two bedroom a bunch of years ago. But, I'm assuming SS would cover nearly half of that, so...
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 9, 2021 15:46:48 GMT -5
My number one priority is not outliving my savings. What I spend in a year right now is about what good LTC costs and most of my other expenses would go to zero in LTC- house, car, etc. since I don't have the scary scenario of a healthy spouse in the home. I have no intention of relying on Medicaid- your choices narrow and as the states get more and more aging Baby Boomers who need care applying for Medicaid, who knows what will happen as far as eligibility criteria, how much the state reimburses LTC facilities and the quality of care. Even now some LTC facilities are closing because they're not getting enough from Medicaid. I remember reading an article in the Boston Globe about one LTC home owner who was taking in some of the people displaced by other homes closing even though he'd lose money on them. When I was in a rehab unit, it was also a nursing home. It was a fairly nice one. My insurance was billed $300/day, so $9000/mo or over $100k/ year. These were 2012 rates, so likely higher now. It was over $10,000/month here in a LCOLA a few years ago. It was a shared room and not that nice, though not terrible either.
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Mrs. Dinero
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Post by Mrs. Dinero on Mar 9, 2021 15:53:03 GMT -5
We live in a small home with laminate countertops, drive 10 year old vehicles, clothes shop at JCPenny/Kohl’s, don’t color my hair or get manicures &pedicures, rarely eat out, and buy generics whenever possible.
I guess we have different ideas of what frugal is. We’ll have $3M in 10 years, he’ll have a nice pension with health insurance and I plan on working for many years after he retires. Every calculator says we’re good. If we don’t touch the $3M it’ll be $9.3M in 20 years
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Mar 9, 2021 17:06:38 GMT -5
We seem to be experiencing some lifestyle creep. Not 100% voluntary, but creep none the less.
Been having some back and hip issues for the last couple of months, so I ended up hiring a gardener to finish the spring yard clean-up and mow the lawn this summer. That’ll cost a bunch more than the two gallons of gas I usually buy each summer. The next thing is likely to be having to let someone else do maintenance of the cars. My DIY mechanic rate is less than the $110 an hour at the local independent auto repair shops. Wonder what other things I’ll end up needing help with as time goes by.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2021 17:45:04 GMT -5
We have always lived within our means and still do, but our means have grown exponentially in retirement for several reasons such as no longer maxing IRA's, not spending many thousands per year on medical once I reached Medicare age, and even this past year's elimination of travel. Our estate will go to 3 non-profits who will be very happy for anything they get. We're not trying to spend and I'm still able to get more meals out of groceries than you can imagine, but I've learned to relax and enjoy our money safely. And I haven't had a haircut since February 2020. I do truly miss my monthly mani-pedi routine but that won't happen for another year or more for safety reasons
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2021 17:47:15 GMT -5
When I was in a rehab unit, it was also a nursing home. It was a fairly nice one. My insurance was billed $300/day, so $9000/mo or over $100k/ year. These were 2012 rates, so likely higher now. My understanding is that Medicare reimbursement rates for rehab business are pretty favorable. The carrot and the stick is that if a nursing home wants to get rehab business from MediCARE, it has tp set aside a certain % of LTC beds for MediCAID beneficiaries. I could see a scenario in which Medicaid LTC reimbursements get so low that some places decide it's more profitable to forego the rehab business and take private pay LTC only. They're likely to have better care.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 9, 2021 17:56:26 GMT -5
The one danger as you get older is, do you have enough if one of you ends up in a nursing home? Sadly, an obscene amount of money went into my Mom's care the last few years of her life. She deserved that good care, but burned through a lot of savings at the end, because physically I just couldn't handle someone confined to a wheelchair. Just so you know, if your money is gone, nursing homes only keep so many spaces open for people who are down to Medicaid. This is always on my mind. While I don't necessarily want to leave a large inheritance for my kids, I do want enough to cover end of life expenses and I'd like to leave *something* to my kids. I remember my late MIL who had a pretty nice cushion saved, but the last five years needed to live in an adult family home. The owner promised us that when she ran out of money, she could stay there and they'd accept what Medicaid paid. She burned through her savings at a pretty good clip, but passed before depleting her fund. We do have LTC ins and it has a partnership with the state so that the amount covered by LTC is protected from Medicaid takeback, but I really don't want to need Medicaid.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 9, 2021 17:56:57 GMT -5
When I was in a rehab unit, it was also a nursing home. It was a fairly nice one. My insurance was billed $300/day, so $9000/mo or over $100k/ year. These were 2012 rates, so likely higher now. My understanding is that Medicare reimbursement rates for rehab business are pretty favorable. The carrot and the stick is that if a nursing home wants to get rehab business from MediCARE, it has tp set aside a certain % of LTC beds for MediCAID beneficiaries. I could see a scenario in which Medicaid LTC reimbursements get so low that some places decide it's more profitable to forego the rehab business and take private pay LTC only. They're likely to have better care. My insurance paid for my rehab stay, not Medicare. I believe Medicare only pays for a limited time in rehab, and pays nothing for nursing home services. I have no idea how much Medicare pays for rehab services.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 9, 2021 18:01:31 GMT -5
Re the "lifestyle creep", yes somewhat. Before retiring, we did not travel as much as we would have liked. When we did travel, the time frame was limited, the fares were the cheapest I could find, and we stayed in inexpensive hotels. Now we generally do one big trip annually, I spend money on comfort (not business class, but premium economy) and we stay longer and in nicer places. And I usually take one or two trips on my own in addition. In fact, I'm flying to Texas in three weeks to visit vaccinated relatives, one of whom was recently widowed and another who has breast cancer. Time is short.
I still use YNAB and track our spending. I track our withdrawals carefully. But I've started hiring some help for things that are becoming difficult to do (cleaning gutters & major yard cleanup in the spring). And I still shop at thrift stores, LOL.
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susana1954
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Post by susana1954 on Mar 9, 2021 19:52:44 GMT -5
I don't know if I would call my experience "lifestyle creep" or not. In the year before I retired and the summer after, we had to make a lot of changes because of DH's health. At the end, I needed new flooring, a new sofa, and a new bed. These were upgrades, I guess, but they were caused by the situation, not by me wanting new stuff. I live well now but not expansively. And unlike some others, I still save. I don't mean sinking funds, etc. I still contribute to a savings account, buy savings bonds, etc. I think I am one of those people who thrive on being artificially poor. It challenges me to spend my $$$ wisely. But I do spend when I need to or even really want to (like my recent Ebay purchase). I just try to measure the enjoyment before I spend. If I have fast food at home (hot dog, soup, sandwich meat), why spend the money at McDonald's?
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Mar 10, 2021 10:04:57 GMT -5
Our one lifestyle creep would probably be better vehicles. After DH's car accident in 2019, we needed a new 4 wheel drive truck. We decided to purchase new. We like it a lot, drove it cross country to our winter home. We are going to buy another used SUV as a second car in the near future to replace a 2002 Yukon with a bad fuel pump.
We didn't have nice cars when raising our family. We had what we called the FOC "fleet of crap". So we knew we needed to spend some cash on cars when we retired. When DH rolled over his lump sum retirement to an IRA, it immediately dropped $60,000 in value due to market fluctuation. That delayed the car purchases for about two years.
I hope to spend more on helping out our 2 sons this year. I don't expect to do much traveling outside of camping, so that money can get redirected to the kids Roth IRA's and other important expenses.
DH should get his first Social Security check next month. We have had discussions about how this money can be set aside to do good things, rather than being consumed by lifestyle creep. First he gets to buy new graphs for his boat (just a little creep). After that, we hope to help people in need in our family and community.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 10:09:08 GMT -5
My insurance paid for my rehab stay, not Medicare. I believe Medicare only pays for a limited time in rehab, and pays nothing for nursing home services. I have no idea how much Medicare pays for rehab services. I figured that. One podcast I listened to said that hospitals lose money on Medicaid, just about break even on Medicare and profit from private insurance patients. That's why the government has to provide an incentive for LTC facilities to accept a certain number of Medicaid patients. Been having some back and hip issues for the last couple of months, so I ended up hiring a gardener to finish the spring yard clean-up and mow the lawn this summer. That’ll cost a bunch more than the two gallons of gas I usually buy each summer. The next thing is likely to be having to let someone else do maintenance of the cars. My DIY mechanic rate is less than the $110 an hour at the local independent auto repair shops. Wonder what other things I’ll end up needing help with as time goes by. And, back to the OT- yes, I see that happening, too. I'm just about ready to give up mowing the lawn- house is on a hill so steep that I've resorted to mowing it from side to side rather than up and down, and doing the front one day and the back another. I don't work on high ladders because I live alone and there would be no one to call 911 if I fell and was injured. I saw it as DH aged- you pay to have more things done for you and for more convenience. In our travels, for example, I'd make sure the hotel was close to a subway station and we'd get a taxi or other car service to get to and from the airport rather than scrambling up and down on public transportation with all our stuff.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 10, 2021 10:12:31 GMT -5
My parents have had increasing lifestyle creep over their retirement. The closer they get to the end, and the more their money grows, I think they are looking for ways to spend it.
My Mom said she needs a new car, but she really doesn't drive far - back and forth to church and volunteering. She thought the Nissan Leaf was cute, and my family seems to be going electric. But my father said he wouldn't buy her a Nissan. She doesn't want the Tesla, because they are quite big. I suggested the BMW i3, and now he is thinking about it. She deserves a luxury car, in his mind. She probably doesn't give a crap. But, an example of how he wants to make sure they have the best, given it might just be the last car she has.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Mar 10, 2021 11:09:03 GMT -5
When I was in a rehab unit, it was also a nursing home. It was a fairly nice one. My insurance was billed $300/day, so $9000/mo or over $100k/ year. These were 2012 rates, so likely higher now. It was over $10,000/month here in a LCOLA a few years ago. It was a shared room and not that nice, though not terrible either. ....AND here's the one reason I shake my head at lean FIRE scenarios where you retire at 30 with 300k. It's just not enough money at the end of your life (usually). I do not want to be a burden to my children.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Mar 10, 2021 11:28:48 GMT -5
Yes we’re spending more in retirement I bought a new Tesla S that I expect will be last new car. We’re also not worried about going out for dinner, having a large family group buying meals at our lake association, ballet first orchestra seats, travel with business class and stay at nice hotels (of course not in 2020 but hoping for second half of 2021?). We usually travel with family and pay the major part (saying we’re using airline and hotel points so they’re not squeamish) while they pay for some meals, And giving much more to family and charities We saved a lot by being frugal and working at well paying jobs, and making some very good stock decisions If we could redo? Put a lot more into Roth using the back door IRA to Roth Now we’re paying a lot of taxes on our RMDs
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Apr 14, 2021 22:56:56 GMT -5
Ours is reducing, we made money on rentals and hubs kept dumping it back in. That has slowed way down.
But we buy what we want. I almost bought another house and hubs would have agreed but I reviewed and felt like we better not for various reasons. If we had, after thinking about it, it would have effected our life style.
I can see us each buying one more new car and a truck. I'm perfectly happy with the one I have and no more miles then I am putting on it, think it will last quite a few years, and I'm satisfied with this one.
We have given our son about $130k and a new car about $25k. He never expected either and has thanked us a lot. But we wanted to do it and were thrilled we could do it.
I don't know what end of life costs will be and no medicare will not pay for nursing home costs only 90 days and have to go from a hospital directly to a nursing home to get that.
But we are ok, have more then we need.
Right now we are helping a renter that is struggling. He just got paid $597 for 2 weeks, makes almost $19 an hour so can tell he is getting few hours. He thinks in the next few weeks he will be working way more hours again. I hope so.
Didn't someone post about renter assistance that renters can get to help them if they couldn't pay rent? I thought I say it on the landlord thread and now can't find it.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 15, 2021 6:01:35 GMT -5
Our current lifestyle creep is hiring people to do things we can't do any longer. We have a woman who weed whacks our yard every week. We've been hiring my nephew to do a bunch of digging and transplanting this week. We've hired someone to split some big logs for us. Fortunately we have a lot of slack in our budget. We have more disposable income now than we had when we were working.
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