Need a Devil's Advocate

[beccazan]

Lately I've been feeling pretty good about where I am financially. If all goes well, hoping to go to part time or retire in 10 years (age will be 62). Here's how my situation breaks down:



Emergency fund in HYSA: $12,000 (Adding $600/mo until balance is $25k)

Roth IRA: $65k (max contributions annually). Invested in Vanguard STAR fund

401k: $131K (add 10% per bi-weekly paycheck which is about $350/mo). Invested in Fidelity 500 Index

Collecting Military pension of $2200/mo since 2008 (continues for life with cost of living adjustments)

Debt is mortgage of $179k @ 2.875%. Once EF is where I want it, I will add extra to principle. May still have some left when in 10 years which is why I might go to part time.

Tricare health insurance through the military for life

LTC insurance



I estimate an average 7% return for the Roth and 401k which could bring balances to a bit over $500k in 10 years. Since I have the pension (which covers mortgage with about $600 left), I only need to generate $1500-2000 a month from investments. Don't plan on taking SS until age 67 so that will be another $1600/mo. No spouse or kids to worry about!



So, what am I missing?

[justme]

Does what you need per month include non-monthly items? Like money for a new roof or car. Any trips you want to take when retired. Does tricare cover everything 100% or will you need money for that?

[imawino]

Mar 5, 2021 14:13:58 GMT -5 beccazan said:

Lately I've been feeling pretty good about where I am financially. If all goes well, hoping to go to part time or retire in 10 years (age will be 62). Here's how my situation breaks down:



Emergency fund in HYSA: $12,000 (Adding $600/mo until balance is $25k)

Roth IRA: $65k (max contributions annually). Invested in Vanguard STAR fund

401k: $131K (add 10% per bi-weekly paycheck which is about $350/mo). Invested in Fidelity 500 Index

Collecting Military pension of $2200/mo since 2008 (continues for life with cost of living adjustments)

Debt is mortgage of $179k @ 2.875%. Once EF is where I want it, I will add extra to principle. May still have some left when in 10 years which is why I might go to part time.

Tricare health insurance through the military for life

LTC insurance



I estimate an average 7% return for the Roth and 401k which could bring balances to a bit over $500k in 10 years. Since I have the pension (which covers mortgage with about $600 left), I only need to generate $1500-2000 a month from investments. Don't plan on taking SS until age 67 so that will be another $1600/mo. No spouse or kids to worry about!



So, what am I missing?

Do I understand correctly that you have been using the pension to supplement your salary since 2008? 

[souldoubt]

The biggest risk I see is that you currently only have about $200K between your Roth IRA and 401K. Your projected $500K which includes 7% returns and continued investment would give you $1,666 per month with a 4% withdrawal rate which is on the low end of what you said you need to generate. 7% returns aren't unrealistic and frankly they're what I use while I'm further away from retirement.  Who knows how the next decade turns out in the markets but the longest bull run in history just ended last year, there's disconnect right now between the markets and reality for many and trillions in spending will impact the future.  That said if I were you I'd definitely retire or semi-retire at 62 and if needed I would just take SS earlier.  It's only you so holding out another year or 5 doesn't mean a spouse who may live longer benefits more from waiting.  Everyone's financial situation differs and I know there's different schools of thought when it comes to SS at 62 vs full at 67.  Personally I hope to be able to enjoy retirement and do as much as I can during that time and don't want to hold out for more SS each month that I may not get to enjoy as much.  

[swamp]

I’d quit now.

[Tiny]

Do you know what your monthly expenses are (more than just a "I think it's X"). 

Yes, you may need to 'smooth' out some of the expenses (like utilities) to account for seasonal highs and lows.   
Don't forget to include things like insurances (house, car) and holiday expenses (gifts? travel? entertainment/providing dinner for family?) 
Also include "house maintenance" stuff.   In 10 years if you haven't replaced some failed appliances you probably will need to do so.   Depending on the current age of your HVAC, Roof, waterheater, if you have sump pump(s) or a pump for your water supply,  if you have a septic system versus city sewers - you may have some expenses to plan for in the next 10 to 15 years.   Some of these expenses may crop up again 10 or 15 years after you turn 62 as well. 

It's all about expenses (and income taxes are part of that number).   


If you have escrowed your taxes and insurances for the house - when the house is paid off - you will still be on the hook for those expenses.   Looks like paying off the house (10years in the future)  will free up about $800 (in principal and interest).    Your insurance and property taxes will most likely climb over the next 10 years.  If your state/county/city doesn't have a "senior freeze" or some other way to help seniors (usually over the age of 65) these expenses may continue to slowly climb.    

In your shoes, I might split the $600 you are sending to your EF and send $300 or $250 to your mortgage.   Since your plan is to pay down the mortgage and have it paid off at 62 - you'll shorten the loan and pay less in interest (over all)  if you start with a bit of paydown now...rather than 2 years from now (when your EF hits your goal) -  especially since you have a 10 year "end goal". 

Overall, it looks like you are currently in a good place where continuing your investing/saving plan will get you where you want to be in 10 years.   

You may need to look into changing the allocation (or funds) you are invested in as you near your "goal date".  You might also want to start getting info on how best to access your retirement accounts or how to set up for your yearly income once you  are relying on your tax advantaged accounts (I think many people have an "ef" and then an account with 1 years expenses (they may have up to 3 years expenses) in "cash more or less" - so if the market is 'bad' they wouldn't have to sell at the low.    That's just an example.   I know there are different "plans" depending on where your income is coming from and how it will effect your taxes and such.      

I'm seeing that "retirement planning" is almost another "job".   

[imawino]

Mar 5, 2021 14:45:19 GMT -5 swamp said:

I’d quit now.

At 52?  With $179k mortgage and $2200/month in income?

That seems unwise.

[beccazan]

Mar 5, 2021 14:24:41 GMT -5 justme said:

Does what you need per month include non-monthly items? Like money for a new roof or car. Any trips you want to take when retired. Does tricare cover everything 100% or will you need money for that?

I just bought a new 2020 car so shouldn't need one for a while.  Hopefully EF will cover any other expenses that come up.

[beccazan]

Mar 5, 2021 14:39:39 GMT -5 imawino said:

Mar 5, 2021 14:13:58 GMT -5 beccazan said:

Lately I've been feeling pretty good about where I am financially. If all goes well, hoping to go to part time or retire in 10 years (age will be 62). Here's how my situation breaks down:



Emergency fund in HYSA: $12,000 (Adding $600/mo until balance is $25k)

Roth IRA: $65k (max contributions annually). Invested in Vanguard STAR fund

401k: $131K (add 10% per bi-weekly paycheck which is about $350/mo). Invested in Fidelity 500 Index

Collecting Military pension of $2200/mo since 2008 (continues for life with cost of living adjustments)

Debt is mortgage of $179k @ 2.875%. Once EF is where I want it, I will add extra to principle. May still have some left when in 10 years which is why I might go to part time.

Tricare health insurance through the military for life

LTC insurance



I estimate an average 7% return for the Roth and 401k which could bring balances to a bit over $500k in 10 years. Since I have the pension (which covers mortgage with about $600 left), I only need to generate $1500-2000 a month from investments. Don't plan on taking SS until age 67 so that will be another $1600/mo. No spouse or kids to worry about!



So, what am I missing?

Do I understand correctly that you have been using the pension to supplement your salary since 2008? 

Yes, I retired from active duty military after serving 21 years so began collecting my pension in 2008.

[beccazan]

Mar 5, 2021 14:42:01 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

The biggest risk I see is that you currently only have about $200K between your Roth IRA and 401K. Your projected $500K which includes 7% returns and continued investment would give you $1,666 per month with a 4% withdrawal rate which is on the low end of what you said you need to generate. 7% returns aren't unrealistic and frankly they're what I use while I'm further away from retirement.  Who knows how the next decade turns out in the markets but the longest bull run in history just ended last year, there's disconnect right now between the markets and reality for many and trillions in spending will impact the future.  That said if I were you I'd definitely retire or semi-retire at 62 and if needed I would just take SS earlier.  It's only you so holding out another year or 5 doesn't mean a spouse who may live longer benefits more from waiting.  Everyone's financial situation differs and I know there's different schools of thought when it comes to SS at 62 vs full at 67.  Personally I hope to be able to enjoy retirement and do as much as I can during that time and don't want to hold out for more SS each month that I may not get to enjoy as much.  

I agree that in 10 years i will probably switch to part time just to ensure any gaps are covered and taking SS early is always an option if necessary.

[beccazan]

Mar 5, 2021 14:46:42 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Do you know what your monthly expenses are (more than just a "I think it's X"). 

Yes, you may need to 'smooth' out some of the expenses (like utilities) to account for seasonal highs and lows.   
Don't forget to include things like insurances (house, car) and holiday expenses (gifts? travel? entertainment/providing dinner for family?) 
Also include "house maintenance" stuff.   In 10 years if you haven't replaced some failed appliances you probably will need to do so.   Depending on the current age of your HVAC, Roof, waterheater, if you have sump pump(s) or a pump for your water supply,  if you have a septic system versus city sewers - you may have some expenses to plan for in the next 10 to 15 years.   Some of these expenses may crop up again 10 or 15 years after you turn 62 as well. 

It's all about expenses (and income taxes are part of that number).   


If you have escrowed your taxes and insurances for the house - when the house is paid off - you will still be on the hook for those expenses.   Looks like paying off the house (10years in the future)  will free up about $800 (in principal and interest).    Your insurance and property taxes will most likely climb over the next 10 years.  If your state/county/city doesn't have a "senior freeze" or some other way to help seniors (usually over the age of 65) these expenses may continue to slowly climb.    

In your shoes, I might split the $600 you are sending to your EF and send $300 or $250 to your mortgage.   Since your plan is to pay down the mortgage and have it paid off at 62 - you'll shorten the loan and pay less in interest (over all)  if you start with a bit of paydown now...rather than 2 years from now (when your EF hits your goal) -  especially since you have a 10 year "end goal". 

Overall, it looks like you are currently in a good place where continuing your investing/saving plan will get you where you want to be in 10 years.   

You may need to look into changing the allocation (or funds) you are invested in as you near your "goal date".  You might also want to start getting info on how best to access your retirement accounts or how to set up for your yearly income once you  are relying on your tax advantaged accounts (I think many people have an "ef" and then an account with 1 years expenses (they may have up to 3 years expenses) in "cash more or less" - so if the market is 'bad' they wouldn't have to sell at the low.    That's just an example.   I know there are different "plans" depending on where your income is coming from and how it will effect your taxes and such.      

I'm seeing that "retirement planning" is almost another "job".   

The $1500 I estimate I will need per month does include utilities.  Hoping the EF can handle any appliance replacement and other household expenses.

Thank you for the reminder to save property and school taxes once house is paid off.  since I was already using pension for mortgage, i will be able to use it for taxes also.

I have been researching options to switch from accumulation to withdrawal.  It will be a little scary to take that leap but I am SO ready for it!

[beccazan]

Mar 5, 2021 14:48:12 GMT -5 imawino said:

Mar 5, 2021 14:45:19 GMT -5 swamp said:

I’d quit now.

At 52?  With $179k mortgage and $2200/month in income?

That seems unwise.

Actually the $2200/mo is just pension.  I also have a civilian job that nets $2200/mo.  That said, I still wouldn't quit now with that much of a mortgage.  I really want to get EF funded and pay down a good chunk of the mortgage before i leave the rat race completely.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Why don't you just start living like that now?  Make sure you're only taking home $1500/month from your job and everything else in retirement accounts.  You'll know you can live off of that and you'll have a lot more savings (I'm assuming...I don't know what you make now).

eta:  Well, NOW I know what you make now.  We posted at the same time.

[imawino]

Do you plan to travel or have hobbies in retirement?  What kind of lifestyle do you want to live then?  

Honestly, you'd have to post much more specific income and expense numbers to get valuable feedback.  You seem to be on track, but I do think your plan to be able to live on $44k in the future when you make $68k (ish) now and appear to need at least $50k of it for expenses is a little tight.  If the mortgage actually is paid off that does change things a bit - but as another poster pointed out the taxes and insurance will still be there, and higher than now - so it doesn't just go away.   

[imawino]

Mar 5, 2021 15:06:25 GMT -5 beccazan said:

Mar 5, 2021 14:48:12 GMT -5 imawino said:

At 52?  With $179k mortgage and $2200/month in income?

That seems unwise.

Actually the $2200/mo is just pension.  I also have a civilian job that nets $2200/mo.  That said, I still wouldn't quit now with that much of a mortgage.  I really want to get EF funded and pay down a good chunk of the mortgage before i leave the rat race completely.

Right.  My point to her was that if you quit now, you'd have only the $2200 pension for income.  That's why it would be unwise. 

[imawino]

Mar 5, 2021 15:04:23 GMT -5 beccazan said:

Mar 5, 2021 14:46:42 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Do you know what your monthly expenses are (more than just a "I think it's X"). 

Yes, you may need to 'smooth' out some of the expenses (like utilities) to account for seasonal highs and lows.   
Don't forget to include things like insurances (house, car) and holiday expenses (gifts? travel? entertainment/providing dinner for family?) 
Also include "house maintenance" stuff.   In 10 years if you haven't replaced some failed appliances you probably will need to do so.   Depending on the current age of your HVAC, Roof, waterheater, if you have sump pump(s) or a pump for your water supply,  if you have a septic system versus city sewers - you may have some expenses to plan for in the next 10 to 15 years.   Some of these expenses may crop up again 10 or 15 years after you turn 62 as well. 

It's all about expenses (and income taxes are part of that number).   


If you have escrowed your taxes and insurances for the house - when the house is paid off - you will still be on the hook for those expenses.   Looks like paying off the house (10years in the future)  will free up about $800 (in principal and interest).    Your insurance and property taxes will most likely climb over the next 10 years.  If your state/county/city doesn't have a "senior freeze" or some other way to help seniors (usually over the age of 65) these expenses may continue to slowly climb.    

In your shoes, I might split the $600 you are sending to your EF and send $300 or $250 to your mortgage.   Since your plan is to pay down the mortgage and have it paid off at 62 - you'll shorten the loan and pay less in interest (over all)  if you start with a bit of paydown now...rather than 2 years from now (when your EF hits your goal) -  especially since you have a 10 year "end goal". 

Overall, it looks like you are currently in a good place where continuing your investing/saving plan will get you where you want to be in 10 years.   

You may need to look into changing the allocation (or funds) you are invested in as you near your "goal date".  You might also want to start getting info on how best to access your retirement accounts or how to set up for your yearly income once you  are relying on your tax advantaged accounts (I think many people have an "ef" and then an account with 1 years expenses (they may have up to 3 years expenses) in "cash more or less" - so if the market is 'bad' they wouldn't have to sell at the low.    That's just an example.   I know there are different "plans" depending on where your income is coming from and how it will effect your taxes and such.      

I'm seeing that "retirement planning" is almost another "job".   

The $1500 I estimate I will need per month does include utilities.  Hoping the EF can handle any appliance replacement and other household expenses.

Thank you for the reminder to save property and school taxes once house is paid off.  since I was already using pension for mortgage, i will be able to use it for taxes also.

I have been researching options to switch from accumulation to withdrawal.  It will be a little scary to take that leap but I am SO ready for it!

Again, I do think you are on track and doing great.  But you are expecting a lot from your EF!  Appliance replacement, home maintenance, eventual car repair and replacement.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Are you planning on this house for your retirement?  If so, what is the status of the roof and HVAC, or other expensive repairs?  Is it set up such that you can live in it if you need walking aids?  Is the outside property easily manageable?  What if you can’t maintain your yard, what will that cost?  

Are you near a place where you can get decent medical care?  

Does your spouse receive survivor’s benefits, or is the military pension just you?

[Tiny]

Mar 5, 2021 15:04:23 GMT -5 beccazan said:

Mar 5, 2021 14:46:42 GMT -5 Tiny said:

The $1500 I estimate I will need per month does include utilities.  Hoping the EF can handle any appliance replacement and other household expenses.

Thank you for the reminder to save property and school taxes once house is paid off.  since I was already using pension for mortgage, i will be able to use it for taxes also.

I have been researching options to switch from accumulation to withdrawal.  It will be a little scary to take that leap but I am SO ready for it!

How will you refill the EF after you are 62 (if you use it to buy a car at 63? and then need a roof at 64?)  Are you figuring these expenses into the "total amount you need in your retirement accounts"?   if don't have a monthly line item for them in the your spending plan?   That's what I'm going at...  You'll need some part of the income from your retirement money to cover those kinds of big expenses and pulling 20K (for your year expenses - and then another 10K for the once in a while house or car expense might mess with your retirement numbers...) .     I'm not sure how to write what I'm talking about...   

[Tiny]

An Emergency Fund is for "unexpected" expenses. A new car, appliances, a roof, HVAC, etc are generally things you KNOW are on the horizon. When one fails - it becomes an emergency - but generally you know how long a car or fridge or roof lasts... and you can plan accordingly.

When I FIre (within 24 months - most likely sooner) I will have 6 months of 'expenses' in my EF AND various sinking funds for a Roof (it's 23yo right now - I got 5 years or less...) my car is 9yo so I'll need to replace it in about 5 years or so. My furnace is fine - my AC is going on 10 years - but it should be ok for a couple more years (it doesn't run much) So, I've got some big expenses coming up - AFTER my income stops. My EF isn't intended to cover these "known" expenses.   

I won't be using the EF for any of those known expenses - unless something really bad happens... like a Zombie Apocalypse - which means I will have to find some employment - probably as a Zombie Hunter or something  cause money will be tight.   

[justme]

Mar 5, 2021 14:56:26 GMT -5 beccazan said:

Mar 5, 2021 14:24:41 GMT -5 justme said:

Does what you need per month include non-monthly items? Like money for a new roof or car. Any trips you want to take when retired. Does tricare cover everything 100% or will you need money for that?

I just bought a new 2020 car so shouldn't need one for a while.  Hopefully EF will cover any other expenses that come up.

So then have you budgeted money to replace the EF then? Because $25k won't cover other expenses that come up that are big over several decades. And that's assuming you don't need to use it in the next 10 before you retire. 

[NoNamePerson]

Mar 5, 2021 14:45:19 GMT -5 swamp said:

I’d quit now.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Mar 5, 2021 16:05:09 GMT -5 justme said:

Mar 5, 2021 14:56:26 GMT -5 beccazan said:

I just bought a new 2020 car so shouldn't need one for a while.  Hopefully EF will cover any other expenses that come up.

So then have you budgeted money to replace the EF then? Because $25k won't cover other expenses that come up that are big over several decades. And that's assuming you don't need to use it in the next 10 before you retire. 

The investments really only have to produce an income from 62-67 when he draws SS though.  At that point the retirement accounts can pretty much just be considered a big EF.

[justme]

Mar 5, 2021 16:34:29 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Mar 5, 2021 16:05:09 GMT -5 justme said:

So then have you budgeted money to replace the EF then? Because $25k won't cover other expenses that come up that are big over several decades. And that's assuming you don't need to use it in the next 10 before you retire. 

The investments really only have to produce an income from 62-67 when he draws SS though.  At that point the retirement accounts can pretty much just be considered a big EF.

Yeah, assuming she doesn't need more than what SS is. It's on the lower side of her monthly needs without adding all the not monthly stuff like cars, house repairs, etc. 

[susana1954]

Your budget will be awfully tight.  I presently get $4300 after taxes and insurance from my pension and SS.  I live nicely, but not extravagantly.  I drive a 2006 Corolla (137k miles).  My house might be the equivalent of yours . . . I think it is supposed to be worth about $170k.  I'm paying extra so it will be paid off when I am 72.  My tightness budget-wise comes from the fact that I save $500 a month for a house account (minor maintenance, lawn service, exterminator, etc.) and $500 for a new car fund.  The more I age, the less I can do myself.

My point is that my IRA and my Roth, which total about $560k, are together my "emergency fund."   I just got a new roof, which was covered by insurance except for the $2k deductible, and that was $12k before the deductible.  I had new flooring put down throughout the house, luxury vinyl plank and not hardwood, and that was $13k.  You get the idea.  I will have spent your entire EF in one year!  You can only spend the same dollar once.

I agree with the suggestion that you should live like you think you will live in retirement and save the rest.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Mar 5, 2021 16:49:19 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

Your budget will be awfully tight.  I presently get $4300 after taxes and insurance from my pension and SS.  I live nicely, but not extravagantly.  I drive a 2006 Corolla (137k miles).  My house might be the equivalent of yours . . . I think it is supposed to be worth about $170k.  I'm paying extra so it will be paid off when I am 72.  My tightness budget-wise comes from the fact that I save $500 a month for a house account (minor maintenance, lawn service, exterminator, etc.) and $500 for a new car fund.  The more I age, the less I can do myself.

$4300 without a mortgage would be pretty cushy to me though as it's quite a bit more than I take home now.  All depends on what the OP's budget looks like. 

[stillmovingforward]

susana1954 has a very valid point. As you age, you have to make changes to your house and have others do things that you no longer can. Just because you were healthy and able earlier doesn't mean you will be able to do it all as you get older.
You should have some slack in your budget for that. While it's not a necessity, it sure can make retirement more pleasant.

[susana1954]

Mar 5, 2021 17:01:10 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Mar 5, 2021 16:49:19 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

Your budget will be awfully tight.  I presently get $4300 after taxes and insurance from my pension and SS.  I live nicely, but not extravagantly.  I drive a 2006 Corolla (137k miles).  My house might be the equivalent of yours . . . I think it is supposed to be worth about $170k.  I'm paying extra so it will be paid off when I am 72.  My tightness budget-wise comes from the fact that I save $500 a month for a house account (minor maintenance, lawn service, exterminator, etc.) and $500 for a new car fund.  The more I age, the less I can do myself.

$4300 without a mortgage would be pretty cushy to me though as it's quite a bit more than I take home now.  All depends on what the OP's budget looks like. 

But I don't really.  According to what I said above, I have $3300.  $1000 is going into the house/car funds.  That may still be more than you take home now, though.

[tallguy]

Mar 5, 2021 17:36:35 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

Mar 5, 2021 17:01:10 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

$4300 without a mortgage would be pretty cushy to me though as it's quite a bit more than I take home now.  All depends on what the OP's budget looks like. 

But I don't really.  According to what I said above, I have $3300.  $1000 is going into the house/car funds.  That may still be more than you take home now, though.

I would go the other way.  You HAVE $4300 per month.  You may be diverting $1000 of it with the intent of not using it until a later date, but you still have $4300.  It is a choice, not a requirement or obligation.  Basically an accounting manuever with no real effect.  If it lets you see things more clearly to handle it this way, then fine.  Up to you, but there is no real difference between that and just holding the money all in one account with the same intent not to spend it.  It does muddy things up though to say that money you are diverting to other needs should not be counted when comparing to someone paying for those same needs who does it all from one amount.  Apples to oranges.

[susana1954]

Mar 5, 2021 18:46:30 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Mar 5, 2021 17:36:35 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

But I don't really.  According to what I said above, I have $3300.  $1000 is going into the house/car funds.  That may still be more than you take home now, though.

I would go the other way.  You HAVE $4300 per month.  You may be diverting $1000 of it with the intent of not using it until a later date, but you still have $4300.  It is a choice, not a requirement or obligation.  Basically an accounting manuever with no real effect.  If it lets you see things more clearly to handle it this way, then fine.  Up to you, but there is no real difference between that and just holding the money all in one account with the same intent not to spend it.  It does muddy things up though to say that money you are diverting to other needs should not be counted when comparing to someone paying for those same needs who does it all from one amount.  Apples to oranges.

I think it depends on how resolute you are in banking that money.

Your method would say someone has $5000 a month even though  out of that $5000 he/she is putting x into retirement and has to pay x for a flex account or even a HSA.  It doesn't feel like $5000, though, since those are requirements to that poster.

These come off the top for me so they aren't discretionary.  I feel as if I have $3300 a month to live on.  If it muddies your waters, it helps mine. 

Apples to oranges works for me.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I'm just looking at it as the OP has a pension and SS that will provide $3800 of the 4K she needs in retirement but there's the 5 year gap from 62 to 67 to cover 2K/month, so will need to draw 120K during that time, but after that the retirement accounts can just sit unless needed for larger purchases.  

I'm the same age with less and feel like I'm in pretty good shape with 10 years to go.  I have about 650K in retirement, but she has the equivalent of that in pension, plus 200K and won't have medical costs with Tri-care. 

I would nail down that 4K budget though and make sure it's complete.  How much of that 4K is spent on the mortgage payment that won't be there in retirement?