mary2029
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Post by mary2029 on Mar 2, 2021 19:19:00 GMT -5
I found a Gallup poll with the question of: In politics, as of today, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat or an Independent? Before you look at it, make a guess. news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspxHow far off were you? I was surprised at the number of Independents.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Mar 2, 2021 19:50:54 GMT -5
I consider myself an Independent. But, it's been a very long time since the Republican Party has produced a candidate worth voting for. In fact, their people have gotten worse over time. Which means, I've been voting a lot of Blue.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 2, 2021 20:22:31 GMT -5
30-30-40 (before I looked)
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Mar 2, 2021 20:45:44 GMT -5
I'm not surprised at all since many people lie in those type of polls. I would cause it's none of their business how I vote.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 2, 2021 20:55:42 GMT -5
I'm not surprised at all since many people lie in those type of polls. I would cause it's none of their business how I vote. 1) why would anyone lie on a survey like this (or any other) 2) if they DO lie, one might imagine that pollsters have figured THAT out, too, and adjust for it.
in short, I bet this poll is quite accurate (within MOE). Democrats got a nice bump right after the election.
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irishpad
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Post by irishpad on Mar 2, 2021 21:55:40 GMT -5
Before I looked I guessed 25-30-40 I was pretty close.
I do think it is funny though how it varies so much from week to week. Kind of like a poll taken after Nixon resigned (this is from my memory, I was 12 at the time) "Did you vote for Nixon or McGovern in '72 election?" According to the poll, McGovern won by a landside rather than losing 49 states.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 2, 2021 22:00:41 GMT -5
Before I looked I guessed 25-30-40 I was pretty close. I do think it is funny though how it varies so much from week to week. Kind of like a poll taken after Nixon resigned (this is from my memory, I was 12 at the time) "Did you vote for Nixon or McGovern in '72 election?" According to the poll, McGovern won by a landside rather than losing 49 states. I would posit that this is a different question than "what is your party affiliation?".
first of all, polls are anonymous. that means that the only person you need be embarrassed by is the pollster, and I can guarantee they are paid to be absolutely neutral in their reactions to what you say.
second, Nixon was a national embarrassment. now, you can say that Republicans were too, and there is some truth to that. but MOST Republicans are not embarrassed by Trump. in fact, some are saying he is the best president EVER. STILL. NOT KIDDING.
in short, I can't fathom why someone would not tell the TRUTH about their affiliation.
note: the answer to your question is "persons surveyed". there will be variation in the types of persons answering the phone from week to week. calling the same people for each survey makes for a pretty static poll, as well as a potentially hopelessly inaccurate one (like the LA Times poll that did exactly this in 2016).
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mary2029
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Post by mary2029 on Mar 2, 2021 22:03:44 GMT -5
Some states require a voter to register for a party to vote in the primary, so I thought the independents would be the lowest number and/or tied with the Republicans as the lowest. Last week... 50%! Why the heck do the Trumpers care so much for the far left? Makes no sense.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 2, 2021 23:44:46 GMT -5
Some states require a voter to register for a party to vote in the primary, so I thought the independents would be the lowest number and/or tied with the Republicans as the lowest. Last week... 50%! Why the heck do the Trumpers care so much for the far left? Makes no sense. because of our stupid EV vote system, independents can't vote as a third party without a national organization to place a candidate on the ballot.
it is not that hard to imagine. it happened in 1996. unfortunately, I don't think they tracked the independent vote in 1996. they started soon after, I believe.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Mar 3, 2021 11:48:07 GMT -5
I'm registered as a democrat, but I have always considered myself an independent. Obviously I vote blue lately, since the pubs have lost their god damn minds, but even some of the dems ideas are kinda far fetched to me.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 3, 2021 12:32:10 GMT -5
I was also surprised by the percentage of Independents. I used to be registered as one but my state switched to a completely open primary at least two decades ago. Now that there is no need to register as a partisan or non-partisan, describing yourself as an Independent marks you as an out-of-stater or very old-fashioned.
It would be interesting to see how the percentages break down by state of residence. I suspect that the states that have had completely open primaries for the longest would have the lowest percentage of people describing themselves as Independent.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 3, 2021 12:35:17 GMT -5
I'm registered as a democrat, but I have always considered myself an independent. Obviously I vote blue lately, since the pubs have lost their god damn minds, but even some of the dems ideas are kinda far fetched to me. This.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 3, 2021 16:01:36 GMT -5
I used to consider myself independent, but I guess I no longer feel that I can vote Republican for any office.
Before Trump was elected I felt that the Republican Party was racist, but they were smart enough not to come right out and say it. After Trump I feel even more strongly that they are racist. I acknowledge that some people vote Republican and they swear the Republicans are not racist, but I just consider them Blind to the true nature of the Republican party.
In addition to the Racism issue, I am Pro-Choice and Pro-Birth control. We all know the Republican's are anti-choice. I don't trust them to maintain access to birth control either.
You can't even trust them on voting rights. Sounds like the Supreme court may allow them to enact laws that prohibit voting access for certain groups (minorities or poor people) in order to give them an advantage they otherwise would not hold.
I consider myself a Blue Dog Democrat - I am not in agreement with the more liberal people in the party on a lot of things, but you have to either go R or D, and I just can't trust the R's.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Mar 4, 2021 10:05:30 GMT -5
The letter 'R' and/or 'D' behind someone's name is just that ....... a letter. I'm a moderate that happens to be a registered Republican. I try to look at both sides of an issue or person and vote my conscience. The only time the 'R' or 'D' has any real meaning is in the primary elections.
Other than that ......... it's just a political game for both sides.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 4, 2021 10:21:45 GMT -5
The letter 'R' and/or 'D' behind someone's name is just that ....... a letter. I'm a moderate that happens to be a registered Republican. I try to look at both sides of an issue or person and vote my conscience. The only time the 'R' or 'D' has any real meaning is in the primary elections. Other than that ......... it's just a political game for both sides. I can't agree with this. The last 4 years, the Republicans Consistently voted as a block. Maybe things will change in the future, but personally, I think the only hope of change is the rise of another party.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 4, 2021 11:01:30 GMT -5
I'm registered as a democrat, but I have always considered myself an independent. Obviously I vote blue lately, since the pubs have lost their god damn minds, but even some of the dems ideas are kinda far fetched to me. I have been registered as an independent for 35 years. I changed my registration to the Democratic party because I wanted those statistics that were saying "x number of people changed from R to I" to include "x number joined the D column." And I wanted y>x so the R's could hear the message.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Mar 4, 2021 15:22:29 GMT -5
Here you don't register as Independent. You either register as D, or R, or some minor party, or you are unaffiliated. There is an Independence party, but it links up with R, so not going there.
I refuse to vote on either major party line. Whatever candidate I want to vote for, I always do it on a third party line, not D or R. I'm trying to get third party numbers high enough to raise their rank.
Someone I know was squawking that he was registered Libertarian, and the state had deregistered him because the numbers were so low the party had fallen off the list, or something like that. So he can't vote in our closed primaries, because he's not registered with a "valid" party. I can't either, because I refuse to affiliate with either major party.
Closed primaries are stupid.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 4, 2021 15:35:29 GMT -5
Here you don't register as Independent. You either register as D, or R, or some minor party, or you are unaffiliated. There is an Independence party, but it links up with R, so not going there. I refuse to vote on either major party line. Whatever candidate I want to vote for, I always do it on a third party line, not D or R. I'm trying to get third party numbers high enough to raise their rank. Someone I know was squawking that he was registered Libertarian, and the state had deregistered him because the numbers were so low the party had fallen off the list, or something like that. So he can't vote in our closed primaries, because he's not registered with a "valid" party. I can't either, because I refuse to affiliate with either major party. Closed primaries are stupid. Independent means unaffiliated with a political party. If a state has a primary election structure which is set up as the nominating process to select the person who will represent a political party in the general election, giving people who are not members of the party the opportunity to select their nominee does not seem appropriate to me.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 4, 2021 15:38:10 GMT -5
Here you don't register as Independent. You either register as D, or R, or some minor party, or you are unaffiliated. There is an Independence party, but it links up with R, so not going there. I refuse to vote on either major party line. Whatever candidate I want to vote for, I always do it on a third party line, not D or R. I'm trying to get third party numbers high enough to raise their rank. Someone I know was squawking that he was registered Libertarian, and the state had deregistered him because the numbers were so low the party had fallen off the list, or something like that. So he can't vote in our closed primaries, because he's not registered with a "valid" party. I can't either, because I refuse to affiliate with either major party. Closed primaries are stupid. Independent means unaffiliated with a political party. If a state has a primary election structure which is set up as the nominating process to select the person who will represent a political party in the general election, giving people who are not members of the party the opportunity to select their nominee does not seem appropriate to me. In NY the term is Unaffiliated or No Party Affiliation. Independence is a party so they are distinguishing between the two.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 4, 2021 15:42:15 GMT -5
Here you don't register as Independent. You either register as D, or R, or some minor party, or you are unaffiliated. There is an Independence party, but it links up with R, so not going there. I refuse to vote on either major party line. Whatever candidate I want to vote for, I always do it on a third party line, not D or R. I'm trying to get third party numbers high enough to raise their rank. Someone I know was squawking that he was registered Libertarian, and the state had deregistered him because the numbers were so low the party had fallen off the list, or something like that. So he can't vote in our closed primaries, because he's not registered with a "valid" party. I can't either, because I refuse to affiliate with either major party. Closed primaries are stupid. Independent means unaffiliated with a political party. If a state has a primary election structure which is set up as the nominating process to select the person who will represent a political party in the general election, giving people who are not members of the party the opportunity to select their nominee does not seem appropriate to me. I agree. I don't want a bunch of republicans selecting what democrat is going to be on the ticket in a general election.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 4, 2021 15:44:50 GMT -5
Independent means unaffiliated with a political party. If a state has a primary election structure which is set up as the nominating process to select the person who will represent a political party in the general election, giving people who are not members of the party the opportunity to select their nominee does not seem appropriate to me. I don;'t want a bumch of republicans. Fixed it for you.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 4, 2021 15:46:57 GMT -5
I don;'t want a bumch of republicans. Fixed it for you. LOL. Except you made me see all the typos I made!! In fairness, my cat was standing in front of my monitor so I could not see the words I was typing! hahaha
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 4, 2021 16:54:36 GMT -5
Anyway, as to the high number of self-identified Independents in the poll, I think that just speaks to how Americans like to see themselves. Lots of people "feel like" an Independent or "see themselves as" an Independent, but pretty much always vote one way. Most of us like to believe we are unique and special and don't fit neatly into a category. In my opinion it's a pretty useless distinction, until such time that there are viable candidates regularly on the ballot that aren't either republican or democrat.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Mar 4, 2021 17:23:59 GMT -5
I have to admit it was a bit of a downer when MD took away my Independent card and issued me an Unaffiliated card instead.
I don't like the fact that my personal registration follows the national trends, but my history matches the trend pretty closely. I started out Republican and changed to Independent when we invaded Iraq, but I was still very much leaning Republican. Somehow over the past 15 years I have morphed to leaning Democrat, although I still have my unaffiliated status.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 4, 2021 21:29:47 GMT -5
I have to admit it was a bit of a downer when MD took away my Independent card and issued me an Unaffiliated card instead. I don't like the fact that my personal registration follows the national trends, but my history matches the trend pretty closely. I started out Republican and changed to Independent when we invaded Iraq, but I was still very much leaning Republican. Somehow over the past 15 years I have morphed to leaning Democrat, although I still have my unaffiliated status. I'm not sure you morphed. I believe the parties morphed.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Mar 4, 2021 23:49:05 GMT -5
I have to admit it was a bit of a downer when MD took away my Independent card and issued me an Unaffiliated card instead. I don't like the fact that my personal registration follows the national trends, but my history matches the trend pretty closely. I started out Republican and changed to Independent when we invaded Iraq, but I was still very much leaning Republican. Somehow over the past 15 years I have morphed to leaning Democrat, although I still have my unaffiliated status. I'm not sure you morphed. I believe the parties morphed. There has definitely been some movement by the two parties, but I think part of it was me maturing and seeing too many instances where a person's life was changed forever in one catastrophic moment. It is well and good to spout libertarian theories and how the invisible hand of the market will bring about some kind of ideal outcome, but over time I have seen real outcomes where the vulnerable have been failed by the system and where a person experienced bad luck and was pushed out of the middle class.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Mar 5, 2021 9:13:53 GMT -5
Here you don't register as Independent. You either register as D, or R, or some minor party, or you are unaffiliated. There is an Independence party, but it links up with R, so not going there. I refuse to vote on either major party line. Whatever candidate I want to vote for, I always do it on a third party line, not D or R. I'm trying to get third party numbers high enough to raise their rank. Someone I know was squawking that he was registered Libertarian, and the state had deregistered him because the numbers were so low the party had fallen off the list, or something like that. So he can't vote in our closed primaries, because he's not registered with a "valid" party. I can't either, because I refuse to affiliate with either major party. Closed primaries are stupid. Independent means unaffiliated with a political party. If a state has a primary election structure which is set up as the nominating process to select the person who will represent a political party in the general election, giving people who are not members of the party the opportunity to select their nominee does not seem appropriate to me. As Swamp said, Independence is a party (it tracks pretty closely with Republican, so its just another line for R candidates to run on). Unaffiliated is the official term for someone who doesn't register as D, R, I, G, L, Working Families, ... My objection to the closed primary system is that it gives those of us that are unaffiliated (Independent, if you insist) no vote during the primaries. No input into which candidates can/should be on the ballot. The only ones who can influence the choice of candidates are the die-hard party members. It's a self reinforcing system, leading to more extreme candidates over time. Republicans try to go more Republican, to be the most Republican candidate of the bunch (because in the closed primary they are only courting the votes of the die-hard party members, not the general public). Same for other parties. I think we'd get more moderate candidates if they had to face voters of all stripes in the primaries. I also object to being denied a voice/vote in the process. I could register with the major party I lean towards the most, to shape it's direction as I like. I could register with the major party I dislike the most, to try to shape it to be less distasteful or limit damages when it is in power. If I want to increase third party weight, I could register with one of them (but have little influence with the major parties). Each approach has drawbacks, and I'm limited to only one option. I can only have a voice in one small part, yet citizens in other states are not limited in the same manner.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 5, 2021 10:24:26 GMT -5
Independent means unaffiliated with a political party. If a state has a primary election structure which is set up as the nominating process to select the person who will represent a political party in the general election, giving people who are not members of the party the opportunity to select their nominee does not seem appropriate to me. As Swamp said, Independence is a party (it tracks pretty closely with Republican, so its just another line for R candidates to run on). Unaffiliated is the official term for someone who doesn't register as D, R, I, G, L, Working Families, ... My objection to the closed primary system is that it gives those of us that are unaffiliated (Independent, if you insist) no vote during the primaries. No input into which candidates can/should be on the ballot. The only ones who can influence the choice of candidates are the die-hard party members. It's a self reinforcing system, leading to more extreme candidates over time. Republicans try to go more Republican, to be the most Republican candidate of the bunch (because in the closed primary they are only courting the votes of the die-hard party members, not the general public). Same for other parties. I think we'd get more moderate candidates if they had to face voters of all stripes in the primaries. I also object to being denied a voice/vote in the process. I could register with the major party I lean towards the most, to shape it's direction as I like. I could register with the major party I dislike the most, to try to shape it to be less distasteful or limit damages when it is in power. If I want to increase third party weight, I could register with one of them (but have little influence with the major parties). Each approach has drawbacks, and I'm limited to only one option. I can only have a voice in one small part, yet citizens in other states are not limited in the same manner. I do understand that New York State has chosen to use the word "unaffiliated" to label those who choose to be independent of any individual political party just as some states have chosen to use the word "independent" to label those who choose to not affiliate with any individual political party. I think that it makes sense that they do that in New York with the existence in that state of a political party with a party name that could create confuse. I would even support a nation wide move to use the term unaffiliated instead of independent. A closed primary can actually give an incentive to the political parties' professional staff to push more moderate candidates in districts in which there is a significant number of truly unaffiliated voters. If either the Republican or Democrat primary voters select an extreme nominee, that allows the other to claim a more moderate position. If both go towards extremes, there is the potential of someone emerging in the middle. My state has a top two primary system with our ballots indicating which, if any, political party a candidate identifies with. In my part of the state, generally a Democrat is able to get enough votes to beat out the second strongest Republican candidate but there are plenty of times the general election is a choice between Republican A and Republican B. The top two system has tended to keep Democrats from voting for the more extreme Republicans as that just guarantees two GOP get through to the general. I don't think it has truly impacted the choices on the ballot for statewide offices other than removing anyone other than the R and D candidates as other than write in choices. I don't see my one vote in my state's system as more powerful than your one vote in your state's system. It only helps towards putting one name on the general election ballot.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Mar 5, 2021 11:26:49 GMT -5
As Swamp said, Independence is a party (it tracks pretty closely with Republican, so its just another line for R candidates to run on). Unaffiliated is the official term for someone who doesn't register as D, R, I, G, L, Working Families, ... My objection to the closed primary system is that it gives those of us that are unaffiliated (Independent, if you insist) no vote during the primaries. No input into which candidates can/should be on the ballot. The only ones who can influence the choice of candidates are the die-hard party members. It's a self reinforcing system, leading to more extreme candidates over time. Republicans try to go more Republican, to be the most Republican candidate of the bunch (because in the closed primary they are only courting the votes of the die-hard party members, not the general public). Same for other parties. I think we'd get more moderate candidates if they had to face voters of all stripes in the primaries. I also object to being denied a voice/vote in the process. I could register with the major party I lean towards the most, to shape it's direction as I like. I could register with the major party I dislike the most, to try to shape it to be less distasteful or limit damages when it is in power. If I want to increase third party weight, I could register with one of them (but have little influence with the major parties). Each approach has drawbacks, and I'm limited to only one option. I can only have a voice in one small part, yet citizens in other states are not limited in the same manner. I do understand that New York State has chosen to use the word "unaffiliated" to label those who choose to be independent of any individual political party just as some states have chosen to use the word "independent" to label those who choose to not affiliate with any individual political party. I think that it makes sense that they do that in New York with the existence in that state of a political party with a party name that could create confuse. I would even support a nation wide move to use the term unaffiliated instead of independent. A closed primary can actually give an incentive to the political parties' professional staff to push more moderate candidates in districts in which there is a significant number of truly unaffiliated voters. If either the Republican or Democrat primary voters select an extreme nominee, that allows the other to claim a more moderate position. If both go towards extremes, there is the potential of someone emerging in the middle. My state has a top two primary system with our ballots indicating which, if any, political party a candidate identifies with. In my part of the state, generally a Democrat is able to get enough votes to beat out the second strongest Republican candidate but there are plenty of times the general election is a choice between Republican A and Republican B. The top two system has tended to keep Democrats from voting for the more extreme Republicans as that just guarantees two GOP get through to the general. I don't think it has truly impacted the choices on the ballot for statewide offices other than removing anyone other than the R and D candidates as other than write in choices. I don't see my one vote in my state's system as more powerful than your one vote in your state's system. It only helps towards putting one name on the general election ballot. Interesting. So if I'm parsing it right - you can vote in the primary, decide which party to affiliate with at voting time (or none), but ultimately only two candidates get to move on to the general election, and they might both be of the same party (and effectively never a third party)? That's limiting in its own way, but very different from my situation. You have a vote in the primary. I do not, full stop, unless I register with one, and only one, party by some deadline many months in advance of the primary date. But on the general election day, I have a choice of usually 6-ish different party lines to vote for each race. Candidates can run on more than one line; usually one will be R, Conservative, Independence. The other may be D, WF, maybe S. Then there's the oddball Green or something else candidate. Sometimes one candidate gets both major party lines, but still has a minor party opponent. I really hate when there's only one candidate on half the lines, and no opposition. Lately candidates are swapping party affiliation when they run for a different office, in a different district. Dem in the city, but suddenly Rep in rural district??
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 5, 2021 12:02:41 GMT -5
I do understand that New York State has chosen to use the word "unaffiliated" to label those who choose to be independent of any individual political party just as some states have chosen to use the word "independent" to label those who choose to not affiliate with any individual political party. I think that it makes sense that they do that in New York with the existence in that state of a political party with a party name that could create confuse. I would even support a nation wide move to use the term unaffiliated instead of independent. A closed primary can actually give an incentive to the political parties' professional staff to push more moderate candidates in districts in which there is a significant number of truly unaffiliated voters. If either the Republican or Democrat primary voters select an extreme nominee, that allows the other to claim a more moderate position. If both go towards extremes, there is the potential of someone emerging in the middle. My state has a top two primary system with our ballots indicating which, if any, political party a candidate identifies with. In my part of the state, generally a Democrat is able to get enough votes to beat out the second strongest Republican candidate but there are plenty of times the general election is a choice between Republican A and Republican B. The top two system has tended to keep Democrats from voting for the more extreme Republicans as that just guarantees two GOP get through to the general. I don't think it has truly impacted the choices on the ballot for statewide offices other than removing anyone other than the R and D candidates as other than write in choices. I don't see my one vote in my state's system as more powerful than your one vote in your state's system. It only helps towards putting one name on the general election ballot. Interesting. So if I'm parsing it right - you can vote in the primary, decide which party to affiliate with at voting time (or none), but ultimately only two candidates get to move on to the general election, and they might both be of the same party (and effectively never a third party)? That's limiting in its own way, but very different from my situation. You have a vote in the primary. I do not, full stop, unless I register with one, and only one, party by some deadline many months in advance of the primary date. But on the general election day, I have a choice of usually 6-ish different party lines to vote for each race. Candidates can run on more than one line; usually one will be R, Conservative, Independence. The other may be D, WF, maybe S. Then there's the oddball Green or something else candidate. Sometimes one candidate gets both major party lines, but still has a minor party opponent. I really hate when there's only one candidate on half the lines, and no opposition. Lately candidates are swapping party affiliation when they run for a different office, in a different district. Dem in the city, but suddenly Rep in rural district?? Our political party systems certainly does create interesting twists.
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