schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 24, 2021 23:24:56 GMT -5
Thinking about installing a 5kW system on our shop, while already prepping it for another 4kW if things work out well. Cost after tax break is about $9,500, with an estimated $1,000 first year production. That figure already takes off 15-20% of what the installers estimate, to be on the safe side.
Have people here gone the solar route? Any recommendations, things to look out for for, what to avoid, etc?
Our power company has increased rates by 5-6% every in the last 5 years since we moved here, so I do expect the rates to continue to rise. At 5% annual increase, the system could produce $1,300 annually in 5 years, and north of $1,600 in 10.
The 5kW system would cover about 60% of our consumption.
Any thoughts and feedback are welcome!
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ajmom
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Post by ajmom on Feb 25, 2021 0:49:59 GMT -5
We had solar! It looked great and we loved it. Our neighbors were initially appalled, but I think they were secretly jealous! Lol. It was a great selling feature.when we sold also. The young families loved it. I believe the tax savings were all for the company — we didn’t get any tax breaks. But our electric went way down. 6 months out of the year we didn’t pay anything, and 6 months the bill was really low. It’s cool to think YOU are actually putting clean energy on the grid!
Your house will need to be assessed. Supposedly the neighbors in the house next door to us were assessed and they were told no....I never knew if that was really the case, but I guess it dePends on how ur house is situated with the sun, etc.
Sorry — I can’t be more specific on things. I was initially very skeptical and scared. It was my husband’s idea (the company had a very attractive young woman at a nearby store “selling it”. So — very good marketing on their part to bring in the male buyers. lol. We actually needed a new roof so we got that done at the same time. We “leased” the panels, but even with that, the cost savings ( and cool look) far outweighed the cost of leasing.
So initially skeptical — then the coolest thing ever!!!
But it looked very cool and I’m very proud that we did it.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Feb 25, 2021 11:34:17 GMT -5
We're in the middle of an install. Panels are up but they were missing a part so it's been nearly a month since they were last out here. Financially it doesn't make any sense for us. Being on the coast in mild climate SF Bay Area our electric bills are pretty low. I think payback is in excess of 10 years and while I love my house I'm not sure we will be living in this house that long. It's only the two of us and we're pretty frugal with power. But as you probably know our power company, PG&E has has some serious infrastructure issues which has led to rolling black outs. Although we only had one last year that lasted for three days, DH likes the idea of being independent. Oh and did I tell you DH is bored and needed a project?
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Feb 25, 2021 11:57:15 GMT -5
I would really like to put in solar panels or a wind turbine. I live in an ideal location for either one of them. They quoted me 24K to put in a 10.2 kW system (29 panels) that would supply 100% of my electric needs and pay off in 7 years. I wouldn't qualify for the tax credit because I don't have any liability so financing might be the better option. I can't remember what down payment there was, but the payments were going to be $109/month on the panels if I didn't pay cash. My average electric bill is $150/month, so it would just be swapping for a slightly lower bill. I worry about things like maintenance on the panels and needing a new roof someday and having to deal with all the solar on it first.
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ajmom
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Post by ajmom on Feb 25, 2021 14:42:06 GMT -5
That is why we replaced our roof with the panels. Because we were leasing the panels, the company had to pay for any maintenance, but we really didn’t have any. It was kind of amazing that the panels only covered a small section of our roof. It didn’t take much to generate all that power. We lived in MD, so summers are really hot. Our heat/cooling was all electric. Sigh. I miss how cool the panels looked.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 25, 2021 15:02:23 GMT -5
The nice part (I think) about our installation would be that it's not on the actual house, but on our newly constructed 32x48' pole barn, a hundred feet behind the house, and sitting a little lower. So we would see the panels from our porch, bedroom and living room. I think they look good, better than the current metal roof. We would also avoid any and all potential issues with an installation on the house roof - like leaking, roof maintenance obstructed, etc.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Feb 25, 2021 15:07:36 GMT -5
Well, I made the mistake of filling out an online form for an estimate and now I have a zoom call scheduled for Wednesday morning. Dammit.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 25, 2021 15:20:43 GMT -5
How much are you all paying, and for what size of a system? My details are in the first message.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Feb 25, 2021 17:10:21 GMT -5
I would really like to put in solar panels or a wind turbine. I live in an ideal location for either one of them. They quoted me 24K to put in a 10.2 kW system (29 panels) that would supply 100% of my electric needs and pay off in 7 years. I wouldn't qualify for the tax credit because I don't have any liability so financing might be the better option. I can't remember what down payment there was, but the payments were going to be $109/month on the panels if I didn't pay cash. My average electric bill is $150/month, so it would just be swapping for a slightly lower bill. I worry about things like maintenance on the panels and needing a new roof someday and having to deal with all the solar on it first.
MPL, do your math carefully. What on the surface may look like a $40 a month savings may not be real. How much of your $150 a month electric bill is the cost of electricity, and how much is service fees, surcharges, special taxes, etc. that will not change if you have solar or wind power? If the cost of the electricity you guys consume is $100 a month, exchanging the consumption cost for a $109 a month solar panel lease payment could actually increase your electric cost after you include all the stuff in your electric bill that will stay the same regardless of how much electricity you draw from the electric grid. I think that your analysis would also need to include an assumption that you will always draw some power from the grid. To power lights at night, to run A/C on the hottest, most humid day of the year, to provide power when your solar panels are covered in six inches of snow and it’s snowing and blowing so hard that you can’t see the road in front of the house.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Feb 25, 2021 19:37:22 GMT -5
We put in whole house solar 2 years ago, and the total purchase price, including battery, was just under $20K. It's a 4.34Kw system with 14 panels on a flat roof so nothing is seen from the street. Our solar water heating is a separate unit. So far, no problems. At our ages we won't see a payback, but it will help with the sale of this home when the time comes.
We live in AZ so plentiful sun.
Glad we did this.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Feb 25, 2021 23:21:08 GMT -5
We put in whole house solar 2 years ago, and the total purchase price, including battery, was just under $20K. It's a 4.34Kw system with 14 panels on a flat roof so nothing is seen from the street. Our solar water heating is a separate unit. So far, no problems. At our ages we won't see a payback, but it will help with the sale of this home when the time comes. We live in AZ so plentiful sun. Glad we did this. Have you checked to see if you’re actually generating savings on you solar panel installation? All of the high level analysis that I’ve done in the past indicated that installing solar panels actually would cost more money than buying electricity from the power company. Especially if you considered the lost investment income on the value of the panels and installation and that while tax credits might reduce your out of pocket cost, they really don’t make the true cost of these installations cheaper. The tax credits only shift costs from the homeowner to the taxpayers who paid into the pool that funds the tax credits. I’m trying to figure out if the economics of solar have changed enough in the last few years that solar is now a good financial decisions as well as a good environmental decision.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 26, 2021 7:06:53 GMT -5
I would really like to put in solar panels or a wind turbine. I live in an ideal location for either one of them. They quoted me 24K to put in a 10.2 kW system (29 panels) that would supply 100% of my electric needs and pay off in 7 years. I wouldn't qualify for the tax credit because I don't have any liability so financing might be the better option. I can't remember what down payment there was, but the payments were going to be $109/month on the panels if I didn't pay cash. My average electric bill is $150/month, so it would just be swapping for a slightly lower bill. I worry about things like maintenance on the panels and needing a new roof someday and having to deal with all the solar on it first.
MPL, do your math carefully. What on the surface may look like a $40 a month savings may not be real. How much of your $150 a month electric bill is the cost of electricity, and how much is service fees, surcharges, special taxes, etc. that will not change if you have solar or wind power? If the cost of the electricity you guys consume is $100 a month, exchanging the consumption cost for a $109 a month solar panel lease payment could actually increase your electric cost after you include all the stuff in your electric bill that will stay the same regardless of how much electricity you draw from the electric grid. I think that your analysis would also need to include an assumption that you will always draw some power from the grid. To power lights at night, to run A/C on the hottest, most humid day of the year, to provide power when your solar panels are covered in six inches of snow and it’s snowing and blowing so hard that you can’t see the road in front of the house. That's why there is net metering. You compensate for your night draw with extra power above what you consume during peak generation hours, like a sunny afternoon.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Feb 26, 2021 9:43:51 GMT -5
I'm having a really hard time explaining to these solar guys that the credit is meaningless to me. One called me this morning and told me I should talk to my tax accountant because he's sure it would mean 26% of the cost refunded...um...I kind of AM my tax accountant. I wonder how much they jack the costs up due to this credit existing?
I guess since it can be carried forward I could do something like convert some traditional IRA funds to Roth or something, but other than that, I don't see it helping me one bit.
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ajmom
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Post by ajmom on Feb 26, 2021 13:33:42 GMT -5
I'm having a really hard time explaining to these solar guys that the credit is meaningless to me. One called me this morning and told me I should talk to my tax accountant because he's sure it would mean 26% of the cost refunded...um...I kind of AM my tax accountant. I wonder how much they jack the costs up due to this credit existing?
I guess since it can be carried forward I could do something like convert some traditional IRA funds to Roth or something, but other than that, I don't see it helping me one bit.
Yes, that’s why with us they explained actually it was the company who would be getting the tax savings.....We really didn’t know how much we’d be saving until it happened. In our case, the cost savings, were were totally worth it. The “credit” would have been meaningless to me, also If it was just me — I wouldn’t have pulled the trigger. I was scared it was kind of a scam because we were only ones doing it. . It was my husband who pushed more for it. In this case, he was right!.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 26, 2021 14:12:57 GMT -5
What's the concern with the tax credit? Yes, if you pay enough taxes, then you'll get 26% of the total cost back during tax time next April. Say the system gross cost is $10,000, then on you return for 2020, you will get a credit of 26%, and you'll basically pay $2,600 less in taxes for 2020 --- assuming you have a tax liability of $2,600 or more. MPL: why is the tax credit not worth it for you?
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Feb 26, 2021 14:41:55 GMT -5
MPL: why is the tax credit not worth it for you? Because my taxable income is typically well under 10K. This year it was $3500...so $350 tax liability and then all the tax credits that come with two kids. I already leave the dependent care credit and most of the savers credit on the table because they aren't refundable. The solar credit would be meaningless.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 26, 2021 14:48:41 GMT -5
MPL: why is the tax credit not worth it for you? Because my taxable income is typically well under 10K. This year it was $3500...so $350 tax liability and then all the tax credits that come with two kids. I already leave the dependent care credit and most of the savers credit on the table because they aren't refundable. The solar credit would be meaningless. I see. Then you are a special case, I am sure most people can get the credit. We usually pay some $30k per year in federal taxes, so in our case, a $3,000 tax credit comes in handy. Somebody had mentioned that the tax credit goes to the installer, I don't think that's true.
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ajmom
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Post by ajmom on Feb 26, 2021 15:08:59 GMT -5
Because my taxable income is typically well under 10K. This year it was $3500...so $350 tax liability and then all the tax credits that come with two kids. I already leave the dependent care credit and most of the savers credit on the table because they aren't refundable. The solar credit would be meaningless. I see. Then you are a special case, I am sure most people can get the credit. We usually pay some $30k per year in federal taxes, so in our case, a $3,000 tax credit comes in handy. Somebody had mentioned that the tax credit goes to the installer, I don't think that's true.
No, that is true! We leased the panels and didn’t pay for the install, so the solar company received the tax credit. I’m not able to paste it, but if you google the question, you will see that leasing the panels don’t give you the tax credit. The solar company told us upfront they would get the tax credit. We were thrilled with the cost savings and the company. The people who bought our house had the option to keep with the lease or for the company to take off the panels. The buyers loved the idea of the solar and the cost savings, and signed onto the lease.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 26, 2021 15:22:42 GMT -5
I see. Then you are a special case, I am sure most people can get the credit. We usually pay some $30k per year in federal taxes, so in our case, a $3,000 tax credit comes in handy. Somebody had mentioned that the tax credit goes to the installer, I don't think that's true.
No, that is true! We leased the panels and didn’t pay for the install, so the solar company received the tax credit. I’m not able to paste it, but if you google the question, you will see that leasing the panels don’t give you the tax credit. The solar company told us upfront they would get the tax credit. We were thrilled with the cost savings and the company. The people who bought our house had the option to keep with the lease or for the company to take off the panels. The buyers loved the idea of the solar and the cost savings, and signed onto the lease. Yes, I am aware that leasing won't give you the tax credit, as you are not buying the panels. What made you decide to lease? Besides the overall higher cost, leasing a solar system can cause all kinds of issues, starting with a bad lien on your home, and continuing to issues when you decide to sell (you were lucky that your buyers assumed the lease). Generally, it's not recommended to lease solar panels. We certainly plan on buying ours.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 26, 2021 15:38:09 GMT -5
We put in whole house solar 2 years ago, and the total purchase price, including battery, was just under $20K. It's a 4.34Kw system with 14 panels on a flat roof so nothing is seen from the street. Our solar water heating is a separate unit. So far, no problems. At our ages we won't see a payback, but it will help with the sale of this home when the time comes. We live in AZ so plentiful sun. Glad we did this. Have you checked to see if you’re actually generating savings on you solar panel installation? All of the high level analysis that I’ve done in the past indicated that installing solar panels actually would cost more money than buying electricity from the power company. Especially if you considered the lost investment income on the value of the panels and installation and that while tax credits might reduce your out of pocket cost, they really don’t make the true cost of these installations cheaper. The tax credits only shift costs from the homeowner to the taxpayers who paid into the pool that funds the tax credits. I’m trying to figure out if the economics of solar have changed enough in the last few years that solar is now a good financial decisions as well as a good environmental decision. tskeeter, it's not a straight forward thing, and the answer will be different for different people, different regions, and depend on the specifics of your house / roof facing directions, trees, etc. I think that in our case it's worth it with a total net cost to us of $9,500, and a conservative production estimate of $1,000 per year.
Here is my thinking on it: (1) the est production is 10% of cost in the first year, similar to an optimistic stock market return (2) I got a new credit card yesterday, just for the solar system. The solar company lets me pay the full amount with a CC, at no extra cost. I get 1% cash back, and 15 months 0% interest. Plus a $200 sign-up bonus. So a total of $300 in cash, plus 15 months SAC financing. This means that I won't even have to pay for the system until next summer, long after I get the tax credit of $3,300 and a good $1,000 in electric bill savings. (I obviously could pay cash upfront, would never buy the system if I couldn't, but the credit card solution seems like a nice additional bonus)
(2) I do expect to receive the cost of the system back when selling the house, but that part is difficult to verify. Zillow did some sort of analysis a while ago, and concluded that homes with solar panels sold for an average of 4.1% more than similar homes without. Not counting on 4%, really, but maybe 1%, which in our case would cover the cost of the system. (3) since we install the panels on a detached 32x48 metal shop, we won't have any of the disadvantages of installing solar panels on your roof, like difficulties cleaning the roof, repairing it, or costly leaks from the penetrations. (4) our electric company (a coop) is of the greedy kind. Annual price increases of 5-6% have been the norm for the last 5 years that we live here. (5) there will be a 25 year warranty on everything, including labor, with the exception of 10 years for roof penetrations. We plan on living here for about 10 more years, so we should be good. (6) as an electrical engineer, this thing is sort of a hobby of mine, with the monitoring, calculations, etc. A couple years ago, I have installed a 320W solar system on our travel trailer, which was a super cool project for me and my son. So I figure, even if we just cut even, it's worth it for me. I get to continue this hobby when we are not camping, for free. That's about it. Would love to hear if this makes sense. Tell me if/where I am off. I haven't signed the contract (yet).
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ajmom
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Post by ajmom on Feb 26, 2021 15:39:27 GMT -5
.... I don’t know if it’s really true what you are saying about a bad lien and such. I don’t understand what you mean.
It worked out beautifully for us. This was years ago — so I don’t remember the particulars. We thought at time it was safer to lease than to own. No installation fee...
Anyway, water under the bridge as the solar panels were definitely a plus for us — we sold our home very quickly, and the real estate agent said it was partly due to young families really being interested by the solar panels.
It was a win win for us.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 26, 2021 15:48:42 GMT -5
.... I don’t know if it’s really true what you are saying about a bad lien and such. I don’t understand what you mean. It worked out beautifully for us. This was years ago — so I don’t remember the particulars. We thought at time it was safer to lease than to own. No installation fee... Anyway, water under the bridge as the solar panels were definitely a plus for us — we sold our home very quickly, and the real estate agent said it was partly due to young families really being interested by the solar panels. It was a win win for us. It worked out for you, that's great, and all that counts in the end. The solar leasing company puts a lien on your house.
In case you are interested and/or thinking about doing it again: here is a link to a post from one guy who got burned by a solar system lease:
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Feb 26, 2021 15:51:21 GMT -5
MPL, do your math carefully. What on the surface may look like a $40 a month savings may not be real. How much of your $150 a month electric bill is the cost of electricity, and how much is service fees, surcharges, special taxes, etc. that will not change if you have solar or wind power? If the cost of the electricity you guys consume is $100 a month, exchanging the consumption cost for a $109 a month solar panel lease payment could actually increase your electric cost after you include all the stuff in your electric bill that will stay the same regardless of how much electricity you draw from the electric grid. I think that your analysis would also need to include an assumption that you will always draw some power from the grid. To power lights at night, to run A/C on the hottest, most humid day of the year, to provide power when your solar panels are covered in six inches of snow and it’s snowing and blowing so hard that you can’t see the road in front of the house. That's why there is net metering. You compensate for your night draw with extra power above what you consume during peak generation hours, like a sunny afternoon. The reason I worded things the way I did is that some places or customers may not have net metering. Such as customers on time of use billing. Or, depending on any net metering procedures you are subject to, there might be a pretty good probability that at some point you will end up buying electricity from the power company. Sales folks are very eager to tell you about all the benefits of the product they are selling. They are a lot less eager to make sure you understand all the gotcha’s that may affect your purchase decision. Kind of like a model home with all kinds of nice features that aren’t included for the advertised price.
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ajmom
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Post by ajmom on Feb 26, 2021 15:57:13 GMT -5
Well in our case we really didn’t owe that much — mostly the cost was for the roof! So if we didn’t have the money to pay for the roof in the first place, then we really wouldn’t have gotten a new roof either! We lived pretty frugal lives. . Paying on the lease for the panels was a miniscule amount really...
We live in a very liberal area, so people loved the idea of solar power.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 16:05:40 GMT -5
I do not have and would not have solar panels BUT many of my neighbors do. And some of those are now reporting roof leaks apparently caused by the installation materials used by local contractors not being able to handle the snow, ice and intense cold Texas recently experienced - shrinking and cracking and allowing snow/ice melt to leak inside. These folks are currently having interesting discussions with their homeowner insurance adjuster and the folks that leased them the panels We see a lot of roaming installation crews following advance door-to-door sales, so please make sure the people you purchase from understand your climate and installation needs.
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ajmom
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Post by ajmom on Feb 26, 2021 16:06:16 GMT -5
And if no one wanted the solar, we just had to pay off the rest ourselves, and like I said, it was mostly the cost of the roof, so we knew we had the money anyway. It would just be the “way the ball bounced”, no big deal. The company would then come out and take off the panels. The panels only covered maybe 1/8 of our total roof, so. Really not a big deal either way. Yes, it was easier that the new owners liked the solar panels, but it wasn’t the end of the world if they didn’t.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Feb 26, 2021 16:15:01 GMT -5
Have you checked to see if you’re actually generating savings on you solar panel installation? All of the high level analysis that I’ve done in the past indicated that installing solar panels actually would cost more money than buying electricity from the power company. Especially if you considered the lost investment income on the value of the panels and installation and that while tax credits might reduce your out of pocket cost, they really don’t make the true cost of these installations cheaper. The tax credits only shift costs from the homeowner to the taxpayers who paid into the pool that funds the tax credits. I’m trying to figure out if the economics of solar have changed enough in the last few years that solar is now a good financial decisions as well as a good environmental decision. tskeeter, it's not a straight forward thing, and the answer will be different for different people, different regions, and depend on the specifics of your house / roof facing directions, trees, etc. I think that in our case it's worth it with a total net cost to us of $9,500, and a conservative production estimate of $1,000 per year.
Here is my thinking on it: (1) the est production is 10% of cost in the first year, similar to an optimistic stock market return (2) I got a new credit card yesterday, just for the solar system. The solar company lets me pay the full amount with a CC, at no extra cost. I get 1% cash back, and 15 months 0% interest. Plus a $200 sign-up bonus. So a total of $300 in cash, plus 15 months SAC financing. This means that I won't even have to pay for the system until next summer, long after I get the tax credit of $3,300 and a good $1,000 in electric bill savings. (I obviously could pay cash upfront, would never buy the system if I couldn't, but the credit card solution seems like a nice additional bonus)
(2) I do expect to receive the cost of the system back when selling the house, but that part is difficult to verify. Zillow did some sort of analysis a while ago, and concluded that homes with solar panels sold for an average of 4.1% more than similar homes without. Not counting on 4%, really, but maybe 1%, which in our case would cover the cost of the system. (3) since we install the panels on a detached 32x48 metal shop, we won't have any of the disadvantages of installing solar panels on your roof, like difficulties cleaning the roof, repairing it, or costly leaks from the penetrations. (4) our electric company (a coop) is of the greedy kind. Annual price increases of 5-6% have been the norm for the last 5 years that we live here. (5) there will be a 25 year warranty on everything, including labor, with the exception of 10 years for roof penetrations. We plan on living here for about 10 more years, so we should be good. (6) as an electrical engineer, this thing is sort of a hobby of mine, with the monitoring, calculations, etc. A couple years ago, I have installed a 320W solar system on our travel trailer, which was a super cool project for me and my son. So I figure, even if we just cut even, it's worth it for me. I get to continue this hobby when we are not camping, for free. That's about it. Would love to hear if this makes sense. Tell me if/where I am off. I haven't signed the contract (yet).
Hope to hear more about your experience in a year or so. I’ve been interested in the possibilities of solar since reading about shingle solar panels in Popular Mechanics several decades ago. As a finance guy, I’ve consistently found the financial justification to be a hurdle to the promise of solar. The payback calculations only worked if you ignored things like the time value of money for your investment, that tax credits don’t reduce the true initial cost, and that the output of the system decreases over time. I keep hoping that the economics will change enough that financial justification ceases to be a show stopper for people who think “great idea, at what cost”.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Feb 26, 2021 16:21:09 GMT -5
tskeeter, it's not a straight forward thing, and the answer will be different for different people, different regions, and depend on the specifics of your house / roof facing directions, trees, etc. I think that in our case it's worth it with a total net cost to us of $9,500, and a conservative production estimate of $1,000 per year.
Here is my thinking on it: (1) the est production is 10% of cost in the first year, similar to an optimistic stock market return (2) I got a new credit card yesterday, just for the solar system. The solar company lets me pay the full amount with a CC, at no extra cost. I get 1% cash back, and 15 months 0% interest. Plus a $200 sign-up bonus. So a total of $300 in cash, plus 15 months SAC financing. This means that I won't even have to pay for the system until next summer, long after I get the tax credit of $3,300 and a good $1,000 in electric bill savings. (I obviously could pay cash upfront, would never buy the system if I couldn't, but the credit card solution seems like a nice additional bonus)
(2) I do expect to receive the cost of the system back when selling the house, but that part is difficult to verify. Zillow did some sort of analysis a while ago, and concluded that homes with solar panels sold for an average of 4.1% more than similar homes without. Not counting on 4%, really, but maybe 1%, which in our case would cover the cost of the system. (3) since we install the panels on a detached 32x48 metal shop, we won't have any of the disadvantages of installing solar panels on your roof, like difficulties cleaning the roof, repairing it, or costly leaks from the penetrations. (4) our electric company (a coop) is of the greedy kind. Annual price increases of 5-6% have been the norm for the last 5 years that we live here. (5) there will be a 25 year warranty on everything, including labor, with the exception of 10 years for roof penetrations. We plan on living here for about 10 more years, so we should be good. (6) as an electrical engineer, this thing is sort of a hobby of mine, with the monitoring, calculations, etc. A couple years ago, I have installed a 320W solar system on our travel trailer, which was a super cool project for me and my son. So I figure, even if we just cut even, it's worth it for me. I get to continue this hobby when we are not camping, for free. That's about it. Would love to hear if this makes sense. Tell me if/where I am off. I haven't signed the contract (yet).
Hope to hear more about your experience in a year or so. I’ve been interested in the possibilities of solar since reading about shingle solar panels in Popular Mechanics several decades ago. As a finance guy, I’ve consistently found the financial justification to be a hurdle to the promise of solar. The payback calculations only worked if you ignored things like the time value of money for your investment, that tax credits don’t reduce the true initial cost, and that the output of the system decreases over time. I keep hoping that the economics will change enough that financial justification ceases to be a show stopper for people who think “great idea, at what cost”. So, what's your take on my financial assumptions? Do these make sense? I don't quite understand how the tax credit doesn't reduce the total cost. I can't follow what you said on the tax credits: the credit sure reduces MY cost by 26%. You are right on the overall cost - but you and I are subsidizing the system whether I install panels or not. So in terms of the decision making for myself: yes, the tax credit does reduce my net cost by 26%. Well, maybe by 25.9999%, because I just increased the tax burden to all by buying my system (if I do). But since we split this amongst like a hundred million or so taxpayer, it isn't much of an impact to myself.
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countrygirl2
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 7, 2016 15:45:05 GMT -5
Posts: 16,715
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Post by countrygirl2 on Feb 27, 2021 23:40:42 GMT -5
We are looking into this right now. I just got an estimate of it all done by a computer to give us an idea. We signed up to get 3 different estimates so will see. The estimated we need a 23kwh of electric from the bill amount.
For us looks about $40k before 26% rebate, estimate a 9 year payback. But they are showing some panels facing different ways on our roof and some being efficient while some are not. Yes, we can use the rebate, being retired we pay taxes so useful for us.
However we will not put them on the roof, we have a 12 pitch standing seam we spent a small fortune on. We can run the panels across our back yard. Hubs does not want batteries he said right now very expensive and not that good.
Indiana is not forward thinking, they just passed a bill in the legislature to stop net metering. But it will not be before the end of 2022 and then you will still get it till 2032 and I think a lot will change in that time. I'm sure the coal lobby pushed that, like it said will cost the state jobs. But hell we don't care here, horrible abortion laws, tried to stop LGBT fairness so I'm hearing a lot of companies are saying, ABI, anywhere but Indiana. Our insurance rates to apparently are high because of hospitals, but anyway I digress.
We also can put it in without paying sales tax and they are not supposed to increase the valuation of the house for property tax. Hubs and I figured there would be a lot less panels then they said by running them across the back of the yard because it is south facing on a big field. So we think that price is way to high. I'm sure the phone will be ringing off the hook.
The reason we are looking is our top tier just raised 6 cents a kwh to 15 cents and the 2nd and 3rd tiers raised too. I was in shock, bill was almost $100 higher this last month after no Christmas light billing. We paid $360 for Dec and $330 for January I like to died. And he thinks it will do nothing but increase in price. They built some power plants here and are hitting us with those costs and I think will over the next few years. However, Indiana is not the sunniest so we have to be sure we get good quality panels, not sure how we know yet.
Hubs also thinks it will be a good resale feature and maybe later the battery option will make it off grid possible, but not for now.
The more I look at it, the more I'm thinking its worthwhile, stay or sell.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Mar 3, 2021 11:42:46 GMT -5
Had my meeting with Moxie solar today. 27K for a system that would provide 104% of my needs with net metering. It would all fit on my south facing garage roof. They started at 43K! Then he threw a promotional 10% discount on and gave me an additional 5% because I turned down the physical gift promotion. This got it to 37K. Which was still way over what I wanted to spend.
Finally, I'm like "what if I just pay cash?" because his numbers were with financing. Dropped another 10K They seem like a good company from what I've been reading. 5 years bumper to bumper on everything with no costs. Then 25 year manufacturer where you just pay labor after that.
I don't know. I really need siding too which is probably just as much. And a UTV would be nice. That stupid tax credit that they push that would knock another 9K off the cost is just not going to help me and they don't get that. So, it's supposed to be that you can use it for 20 years as long as the credit is still in place or something like that. I really need to research that more.
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