Enjoying Renewable Energy

[Artemis Windsong]

This cold snap gives a black eye to renewable energy sources as sustainable for consumers.

www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/in-texass-black-swan-blackout-everything-went-wrong-at-once/ar-BB1dK2WJ?li=BBnb7Kz

The energy suppliers in the northern states are diverting energy to the south with rolling black outs.  Totally unfair as the northern state population  know what value power plants are.

My H. said a helicopter was spraying anti-icing fluid on the TX wind turbines to free them up.  Cheaper renewable energy at it's worst.

Send Gretchen the bill for that!

[Tiny]

I guess it gives a "black eye". But isn't it more of a "who knew freezing weather would occur?" or being unprepared (bad planning)?

Isn't it a bit like booking a beach vacation months in advance only to arrive the day before the hurricane hits?

How many Texan cities have snow plows and how many residents have snow shovels?

My relatives in the Fort Worth area have frozen water pipes - because the pipes are outside and exposed to the elements. That's some shoddy house building if you ask me!    I'm hoping they change the building codes or sue the city (lousy building standards) or sue the home builder!!!   Someone should pay for the frozen pipes!  They should have known the pipes would freeze. 

ADDED:  ok, that snark I wasn't suppose to do. Stupid new year's resolution....  

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Wind turbines do not provide the majority of power.

While some wind turbines have been forced to shut down due to the extreme cold weather, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which operates the state's power grid, said Tuesday that failures in natural gas, coal and nuclear energy systems were the cause of significantly more power outages.



Dan Woodfin, a senior ERCOT director, said on Tuesday according to Bloomberg: "We've had some issues with pretty much every kind of generating capacity in the course of this multi-day event."

www.newsweek.com/fact-check-green-energy-power-cuts-texas-1569922

[billisonboard]

No, frozen wind turbines aren’t the main culprit for Texas’ power outages

An official with the Electric Reliability Council of Texas said Tuesday afternoon that 16 gigawatts of renewable energy generation, mostly wind generation, were offline. Nearly double that, 30 gigawatts, had been lost from thermal sources, which includes gas, coal and nuclear energy.

Who's actually to blame for the Texas power disaster?

There are three power grids in the United States -- the eastern power grid, the western power grid and, well, Texas.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Feb 17, 2021 11:40:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

No, frozen wind turbines aren’t the main culprit for Texas’ power outages

An official with the Electric Reliability Council of Texas said Tuesday afternoon that 16 gigawatts of renewable energy generation, mostly wind generation, were offline. Nearly double that, 30 gigawatts, had been lost from thermal sources, which includes gas, coal and nuclear energy.

Who's actually to blame for the Texas power disaster?

There are three power grids in the United States -- the eastern power grid, the western power grid and, well, Texas.

I was just about to post the same first link you have Bill. 

[Tiny]

Yeah, I remember the winter when natural gas prices went thru the roof - from typically .38 to .50 cents per therm to $1.50 to $2.50 per Therm. Bills skyrocketed and people suddenly had $700 or $1K monthly bills (once all the taxes, fees, and what not were added in). The higher prices lasted a few years.

Suddenly everyone wanted a super efficient gas furnace.

And then those summers the cost of electricity skyrocketed as well (gas powered plants) and everyone yelped about the cost of electricity. And suddenly super efficient AC units were all the rage.

I don't really want to go back to those high costs...

In Texas (and the southern states experiencing cold weather) I suspect there will be improvements to avoid this kind of "disaster" in the future.

Or not, it's a one time fluke - there's no such thing as climate change.

[billisonboard]

Feb 17, 2021 11:26:06 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

This cold snap gives a black eye to renewable energy sources as sustainable for consumers.

www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/in-texass-black-swan-blackout-everything-went-wrong-at-once/ar-BB1dK2WJ?li=BBnb7Kz

The energy suppliers in the northern states are diverting energy to the south with rolling black outs.  Totally unfair as the northern state population  know what value power plants are.

My H. said a helicopter was spraying anti-icing fluid on the TX wind turbines to free them up.  Cheaper renewable energy at it's worst.

Send Gretchen the bill for that!

While wind power skeptics claimed the week’s freeze means wind power can’t be relied upon, wind turbines — like natural gas plants — can be “winterized,” or modified to operate during very low temperatures. Experts say that many of Texas’ power generators have not made those investments necessary to prevent disruptions to equipment since the state does not regularly experience extreme winter storms.link

Perhaps use the savings from not winterizing to pay for the de-icing.

[justme]

Odds are most people rely on electric heat in Texas. They probably don't have gas heat because, like Florida, it doesn't get cold enough long enough to make it worth it. I'm a little delicate so heat comes on in my place once inside hits around 72/70 but even then I only use heat for maybe 30 days total and not all in the same month. I've been on a/c for the last two weeks, but the week before that I was on heat. 

My last electric bill was one of the highest of the year and it was a month of mostly heat. Even in the height of summer my place doesn't get above really 85 without a/c so I only have to cool it down like 10 degrees - but most of the time it's only like 5 or less except at night. Whereas when it's 50 outside my place can get down to 65 or less and then I'm having to heat it up more degrees than I'm cooling.

That's what's happening in Texas. They're using electric heat to warm their places up like 60 degrees yet even in the height of summer most are probably only cooling it around 30 maybe 40 degrees. 

[buystoys]

ERCOT dropped the ball in a lot of ways.  They let a large number of plants go off line for maintenance every winter.  This winter was no different.  They didn't start looking into possible problems until a problem started.  Then it was too late to take preemptive action.  They've been trying to play catch up the whole time.

I'm very lucky and I know it.  My electricity comes from a small cooperative.  We've not lost power at all.  We have lost water due to the rolling blackouts, but we have a trickle back this morning.  It is heart warming to see all the help being offered around here.  There's one guy who is working pretty much 24 hours at a time doing home deliveries of food, cigarettes, alcohol, wood, you name it.  He's doing it for tips only.  He's told people over and over that if you don't have money for a tip, that's OK.  He'll help you out if he can regardless.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Feb 17, 2021 11:52:08 GMT -5 justme said:

Odds are most people rely on electric heat in Texas. They probably don't have gas heat because, like Florida, it doesn't get cold enough long enough to make it worth it. I'm a little delicate so heat comes on in my place once inside hits around 72/70 but even then I only use heat for maybe 30 days total and not all in the same month. I've been on a/c for the last two weeks, but the week before that I was on heat. 

My last electric bill was one of the highest of the year and it was a month of mostly heat. Even in the height of summer my place doesn't get above really 85 without a/c so I only have to cool it down like 10 degrees - but most of the time it's only like 5 or less except at night. Whereas when it's 50 outside my place can get down to 65 or less and then I'm having to heat it up more degrees than I'm cooling.

That's what's happening in Texas. They're using electric heat to warm their places up like 60 degrees yet even in the height of summer most are probably only cooling it around 30 maybe 40 degrees. 

I read something to this effect at some point this week.

[Artemis Windsong]

New information on power grids.

From article on Who's Actually to Blame.

There are three power grids in the United States -- the eastern power grid, the western power grid and, well, Texas.

[tractor]

Feb 17, 2021 12:03:28 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

New information on power grids.

From article on Who's Actually to Blame.

There are three power grids in the United States -- the eastern power grid, the western power grid and, well, Texas.

That’s an over simplification as there are many regional power control entities throughout the country, so more than three “grids”. One of ERCOTS problems is their desire to stay independent, and not be subject to Federal regulations. That’s great until you need to import power from outside your state and there are no interconnects.

What Texas is experiencing is partly as a result of their independence.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Iowa has one of the largest wind farms in the country. Our state doesn't experience mass blackouts. Our turbines are prepped for sub zero temps.

This is not a green energy fail. This is you got what you paid for fail. Texas bet that they could cheap out because how often does it get that cold?

Mother nature said challenge accepted. Maybe Texas should have sprung for the proper blades and turbines.

Aren't Republicans always crying about being prepared? Why didn't Texas prepare? Just because odds were low doesn't mean it can't happen.

If California was told to suck it Texas should too. After all poor planning on a state's part does not warrant intervention on the federal level.

[justme]

Feb 17, 2021 15:06:40 GMT -5 tractor said:

Feb 17, 2021 12:03:28 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

New information on power grids.

From article on Who's Actually to Blame.

There are three power grids in the United States -- the eastern power grid, the western power grid and, well, Texas.

That’s an over simplification as there are many regional power control entities throughout the country, so more than three “grids”. One of ERCOTS problems is their desire to stay independent, and not be subject to Federal regulations. That’s great until you need to import power from outside your state and there are no interconnects.

What Texas is experiencing is partly as a result of their independence.

Snort. That reminds me of a meme I saw yesterday saying ain't it funny that 2 weeks after Texas was calling to succeed from the US they're now asking the federal government for help. 

[justme]

I googled. I found more than the one I saw.







 

[Artemis Windsong]

Quote from FB: The person posting this serviced these stations during upgrade outages in the Spring and Fall months.

"Most of the energy from Coal Creek goes to rural Minnesota. It's scheduled to be torn down next year. Rural Minnesota without this plant will make the problems in Texas look like nothing."

Coal Creek and Antelope Station are a coal electric generators scheduled to be dismantled.

[Opti]

Feb 18, 2021 10:21:43 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Quote from FB: The person posting this serviced these stations during upgrade outages in the Spring and Fall months.

"Most of the energy from Coal Creek goes to rural Minnesota. It's scheduled to be torn down next year. Rural Minnesota without this plant will make the problems in Texas look like nothing."

Coal Creek and Antelope Station are a coal electric generators scheduled to be dismantled.

I have no desire to be on FB in large part because of the amount of stupid that gets passed around as factual. How could it be worse? Minnesota's total population in in the neighborhood of 5.6 million for the entire state. Total power outages in Texas were about 2.3 million. Rural Minnesota by itself will be worse than a large part of Texas?



Lot of misinformation out there so I've decided to not research further. The plant currently has 1.7 million customers so even if all of them lost power it still would be less than Texas. The plant is in ND and apparently financial issues are involved plus the tax breaks for renewable energy. 

ETA- Found an article that suggests only 700K of that 1.7 million is for Minnesotans.

[tractor]

What’s the current capacity market in Minnesota? I bet if you looked, their capacity exceeds demand be a considerable margin. Minnesota is also interconnected to the transmission grid (unlike Texas). Meaning they can import power from adjoining states on a supply/demand basis.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. I think we need more baseload generation, and some coal in the mix will always be required. A blended mix with renewables, NG, nuclear and coal. We also need companies to invest in their infrastructure and not just worry about rewarding shareholders.