nidena
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Post by nidena on Jan 31, 2021 15:26:23 GMT -5
I just think of all the students whom I tutored in math--some were classmates in other classes--and how they're really not getting that now.
And how do you even do a lab over video?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 31, 2021 15:38:08 GMT -5
Neither of my kids are thriving with online classes, and they are very different learners. I do agree that things will evolve due to what we learned in 2020 - but I am not convinced being a completely online society is the inevitable or healthy end game. Or maybe it is. I am wondering though: all those kids struggling right now have been exposed to in person schooling. Will things be different for those too young to have gone to school yet? I can see that generation to end up in a hybrid situation with certain classes only available on line. And those not even born yet may never know differently and thrive in the online environment For the record, I have taken a number of classes online and the medium is not for me. Blame it on my white hair or what ever but it is not something I like. Then again I never dreamed of using computers when I was a teen either and yet here I am
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Jan 31, 2021 15:42:26 GMT -5
Has college changed that dramatically, or is it just the curriculum your son has chosen? When I went to college (the first time . . . LOL), you usually took 15-16 hours. Except for a lab-based course which usually had a two-hour additional lab but counted as a four-hour course, that meant 15 hours of actually spread over 5 days. You often had 3-4 hours of class spread over an 8-hour day. That exercise between classes was a hustle because you only got 10 minutes between to walk across campus. He has 3 lab classes, so there's an additional 6 hours a week there. Then the discussion sections a couple of his classes have in addition to the lecture.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 31, 2021 16:51:56 GMT -5
Has college changed that dramatically, or is it just the curriculum your son has chosen? When I went to college (the first time . . . LOL), you usually took 15-16 hours. Except for a lab-based course which usually had a two-hour additional lab but counted as a four-hour course, that meant 15 hours of actually spread over 5 days. You often had 3-4 hours of class spread over an 8-hour day. That exercise between classes was a hustle because you only got 10 minutes between to walk across campus. He has 3 lab classes, so there's an additional 6 hours a week there. Then the discussion sections a couple of his classes have in addition to the lecture. I would say I did generally have about an hour's worth of discussion a week for many classes - before, after, coffee shop, Student Union. It just wasn't formalized like might be more necessary with things being more isolated these days. Hell, I remember one evening class a group of us, including the professor, frequently shut a local bar down and continued the discussion in the parking lot. But that was a Poli Sci class
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 31, 2021 16:57:45 GMT -5
This is one 4 credit class for my son.
That's insane! That should be a 7 credit course not just 4. Nope. That’s about right for a science class. My science classes were 5-6 hours of class work each week, and 3-4 hours of lab/week. I think my quantitative chemistry class was 6 hours of class and 4 hours of lab each week. All were 4 credits, and I usually took 3/semester.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jan 31, 2021 17:05:32 GMT -5
DS4 has not enrolled for this semester; last fall all remote from home was nearly worthless. Often his college classes were a single 3 hr zoom meeting once per week, full of technical glitches. Either the instructor wasn't able to effectively teach online, or the topic wasn't suited to that method, or DS4 isn't really thriving in HS, either. He's hybrid, 2 days in-person per week, the other days mostly asynchronous. He REALLY needs the in-person in-your-face aspect to get him to turn in assignments. Online assignments are just not real to him, apparently. There's no consequences - teachers are trying to overcompensate for all the changes, giving lots of opportunities to overlook glitches that happen, but the kids know they can use the chaos to just procrastinate until someone notices. They know the schools won't just fail everyone. But some kids are thriving with online. I saw a thread on Twitter of people whose kids/families LOVE it. They felt guilty admitting it, since most hated it. Sometimes it was being out of the school, away from bullies. Some just worked better on their own. Some liked the freer time restrictions, and place for that matter (can do online from anywhere). So many mentioned they were better rested because of an additional couple hours sleep (roll out of bed 5 minutes before class, instead of waiting for a bus), could use the bathroom as needed, eat when hungry...it's sad that the normal school day is so uncomfortable for so many. Lots of people said their kids were surprisingly happy to get off the hamster wheel of sports and activities, to actually be allowed to get BORED and figure out what THEY wanted to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2021 17:13:07 GMT -5
I think I would have liked a lot of the on-line learning in HS- learn at my own pace, get the required assignments done, then pursue more advanced learning in areas that interested me. Having discussion groups with students in other countries would have been fascinating.
In college, though, I'm not so sure. Being cooped up in a dorm room, mostly on-line, being tested constantly for COVID, etc. would be isolating. And while I never attended a frat party or participated in other student organizations and never attended football or basketball games, I do have very fond memories of the Conservatory, where students could attend any performance free if space was available. I was exposed to so many different types of music and it enriched my education. As a Math major, I had little formal exposure to music. Those performances probably aren't happening right now.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 31, 2021 17:18:50 GMT -5
@bamafan1954 - All my son's classes are synchronous live. I think the majority of online classes are now.
I agree with movingforward that it's probably way different for an older person with a family to be taking online classes and they probably love the flexibility, but a lot of full time college students hate it (I know not ALL). I mean, was that 3 hour once a week class your only one? My son is in back to back online classes every day. Most days are 5-6 hours straight of zoom. Wednesday is 10 hours with a 2 hour break from 3:30-5:30. Then it's homework in the same room, on the same computer. His Chem and Physics lab experiments are also done in his dorm room. There's no walking between classes to get a little exercise during the day, no making friends from the class, no study groups (except Zoom ones). I get the physical isolation is the whole point, but I think it's really hard mentally on that age group.
No, I had two three-hour graduate courses each semester, and I worked a full-time job. I won't say that I "loved" it because the days were long and my weekends gone, but I did think it worked. Has college changed that dramatically, or is it just the curriculum your son has chosen? When I went to college (the first time . . . LOL), you usually took 15-16 hours. Except for a lab-based course which usually had a two-hour additional lab but counted as a four-hour course, that meant 15 hours of actually spread over 5 days. You often had 3-4 hours of class spread over an 8-hour day. That exercise between classes was a hustle because you only got 10 minutes between to walk across campus. As far as friends went, I made friends in the online classes, but we were a cohort so we all took our classes together for the two-year program. Another girl and I decided to take a weekend class, and we roomed together every Friday night for six weeks. I am still Facebook friends with several of them. But I'm not a teenage boy. I was taking the courses strictly to get the degree (which I never used) so friendship wasn't even a secondary goal. I can see where it would be for him. It’s the curriculum. I would take 3 of these classes each semester, and would usually be in class or lab at least 6 hours/day. Trying to fit non science classes into the schedule got interesting. I largely chose Theater classes for my liberal arts electives, as the classes were usually 4-6 pm, so they didn’t conflict with anything in science.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jan 31, 2021 19:24:28 GMT -5
I was just talking to my dad and apparently he was part of some pilot program in the late 50's which involved classes being taught on television. The local TV station had a teacher come in and teach class which was broadcast on television for this specific group of students to watch. I guess there was a thought back in the day that this might be the wave of future teaching. Not everyone had a TV during that time, but my dad did and he got to be part of this program. It apparently was an epic fail. Kids weren't learning, test scores went down, etc. Not exactly the same as today since there is some of the needed interaction with zoom but I think a lot are realizing doing everything online is not the best way of learning.
Anyway, I thought that was an interesting story. I had absolutely no idea they had ever tried anything like that back in the late 50's.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Jan 31, 2021 19:35:35 GMT -5
My college experience was only two years--completed an Associates in the military so that took care of the Freshman/Sophomore years--but I loved meeting friends in The Den to do homework while chowing down on a burger and fries; or hanging out in the Breezeway between the College Center and the Library (also doing homework); or going to one of the throught-provoking movies hosted by one of the professors--that is how I saw "I Am Not Your Negro" and "The Hunting Ground".
Or just sitting in one of the staff or administrator's office, shooting the shit in between classes. I was the Student Gov Treasurer my last semester. That was a ton of fun. Or just sitting around with friends and classmates, complaining about upcoming projects and papers and presentations but also being kind of excited about getting it all done.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jan 31, 2021 19:48:26 GMT -5
My college experience was only two years--completed an Associates in the military so that took care of the Freshman/Sophomore years--but I loved meeting friends in The Den to do homework while chowing down on a burger and fries; or hanging out in the Breezeway between the College Center and the Library (also doing homework); or going to one of the throught-provoking movies hosted by one of the professors--that is how I saw "I Am Not Your Negro" and "The Hunting Ground". Or just sitting in one of the staff or administrator's office, shooting the shit in between classes. I was the Student Gov Treasurer my last semester. That was a ton of fun. Or just sitting around with friends and classmates, complaining about upcoming projects and papers and presentations but also being kind of excited about getting it all done. I loved my entire college experience...the thought provoking discussions in class, meeting up with friends on Tuesday nights at the local Pizza place for beer, pizza and wings, Thursday nights were game night (my roommate and I loved beating the guys at Taboo), Saturday afternoon football games, learning about time and money management, dorm parties...All of it! Only bad part was a crappy boyfriend I had my sophomore year. Live and learn...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 31, 2021 20:09:19 GMT -5
I loved being in an environment in which I was not only allowed but encouraged to use my brain to its full potential. Yes, the football players were still worshipped but only on their end of the campus and only on the weekends.
EDIT: I was just realizing I never once went the long way around to get to a class on campus so I could avoid that part of the school.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 1, 2021 18:41:47 GMT -5
My husband is going to a college that caters to nontraditional students, so a large chunk of his classes were always online. Going completely online wasn’t as big of a learning curve for his teachers or his classmates then it would have been at a more traditional college.
I don’t think it is a good idea to judge whether or not something works based on a transition that was done hastily in crazy times. My team went remote a year before the pandemic. We were encouraged to take proper office furniture home with us. And we had time to prepare. All of us loved it, and didn’t have any decrease in our velocity. But before doing a proper transition, working from home was always miserable and unproductive for me. Having things like a proper office chair, dual monitors at the right height, a proper keyboard and mouse, docking station, and a good quality headset all make a humongous difference. Companies didn’t start providing these things in offices out of the goodness of their hearts they did so because they saw that it increased productivity.
There’s also the fact that teaching, learning, and managing online are a different skill set than in person. It takes time and effort to learn these skills.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Feb 1, 2021 18:59:32 GMT -5
I have a niece and nephew who opted out of this semester. Both are working full time, one as a bank teller and the other at coffee shop. They both struggled badly with the online format. I think both do better at focusing in person.
I think some classes are well suited to online and others are not. And some teachers are better with the format than others.
Professionally in the past year I've had some trainings/conferences that were interactive and engaging and some that weren't. For one the networking aspect is missing but asking questions and interacting with the presenters was easier virtually.
My organization will end up with 1-2 days in the office. Collaboration is nice but we also work with people across the country so it's never been all in person.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 1, 2021 20:00:59 GMT -5
Granted I didn't go to College/University - I went to the local Jr. College (2 year program) - I'm thinking a zoom "lecture" wouldn't be that much different than sitting in a lecture hall (with 70 or 80) students for an hour... or sitting in a classroom with 30 or 40 students listening to a lecture. I'm guessing my "college" classroom experience is vastly different than modern kids (or when going to a 4 year college). Maybe it was because I was the kid in the middle or back of the room, listening to the lecture and taking notes. I read the required reading and did the required homework. I don't think I ever asked a question in class or answered a question. I didn't interact much with other students. I think I could easily handle zoom classes. I usually had 4 (or 5) classes that met either 2 or 3 times a week. I was done with "school" usually by noon. I had a part time job and/or did homework in the afternoon/evening. I only had a couple of "hands on" kind of courses. The absolutely WORST course I took was a "tele" course - you got the book, the syllabus, and a packet with the course homework to turn in and when. It was then up to you to schedule time in the library - to reserve a TV and a video cassette (with the lesson you were on) and watch it - by your self. At least with Zoom, you could ask a question or interact with the instructor. You might also be able to interact with your class mates (via some virtual way). I guess the hardest thing would be forming some sort of connection with someone you don't know (so you could share during or before class or work together or atleast talk about the book/work outside of the zoom class.) ADDED: I never had a classes with any of my friends - even though we went to the same High School and Jr. College. We all pretty much did homework as required. In college we'd sometimes do our work at a table in the Cafeteria or Library or at someone's house. I suspect that's not the normal way kids work...
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 1, 2021 20:43:40 GMT -5
The entire educational system at all levels is going to have to take a good look at how they do things. They never really adapted to on-line learning except as a sort of side business (other than U of Phoenix, which seems to be a diploma not taken that seriously) and held dear their large lecture halls, mega-high schools and tenured instructors. If it was OK to switch to learning at home with a teacher on-line in the same town, why not a teacher in London or Delhi? Why not a French literature teacher in Paris or a discussion group on Chaucer with students at Oxford? How many classrooms are REALLY needed? Some things probably have to be done in-person such as labs and a lot of the curriculum for training doctors, nurses, dentists, veterinarians, etc. (contact with patients) but why not Zoom from home for the rest? And then cut expenses by mothballing all the unneeded edifices. You’ve also got the fact that an off a lot of college professors really suck at teaching, but they are still put in front of a classroom because somebody has to teach class 536. For a lot of people, having a recorded lecture taught by someone who actually knows how to teach, and some professors or grad students holding office hours to answer questions would be a huge improvement. All in all, the college experience is a ridiculously expensive way to gain entry into some low paying job that I could teach my 13-year-old how to do. And I’m saying this as someone who did the whole college experience, and doesn’t regret it. In my little town, even the schools and sketchy or parts of town do a decent job of educating the kids. As a result, it’s pretty common to see people with just high school working their way up the food chain, without ever going to college. It makes it a lot easier for kids from poor families to make something of themselves. I don’t see it as a bad thing if more kids are skipping college to do other things, as long as they’re able to be successful.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 1, 2021 20:58:46 GMT -5
The entire educational system at all levels is going to have to take a good look at how they do things. They never really adapted to on-line learning except as a sort of side business (other than U of Phoenix, which seems to be a diploma not taken that seriously) and held dear their large lecture halls, mega-high schools and tenured instructors. If it was OK to switch to learning at home with a teacher on-line in the same town, why not a teacher in London or Delhi? Why not a French literature teacher in Paris or a discussion group on Chaucer with students at Oxford? How many classrooms are REALLY needed? Some things probably have to be done in-person such as labs and a lot of the curriculum for training doctors, nurses, dentists, veterinarians, etc. (contact with patients) but why not Zoom from home for the rest? And then cut expenses by mothballing all the unneeded edifices. You’ve also got the fact that an off a lot of college professors really suck at teaching, but they are still put in front of a classroom because somebody has to teach class 536. For a lot of people, having a recorded lecture taught by someone who actually knows how to teach, and some professors or grad students holding office hours to answer questions would be a huge improvement. All in all, the college experience is a ridiculously expensive way to gain entry into some low paying job that I could teach my 13-year-old how to do. And I’m saying this as someone who did the whole college experience, and doesn’t regret it. In my little town, even the schools and sketchy or parts of town do a decent job of educating the kids. As a result, it’s pretty common to see people with just high school working their way up the food chain, without ever going to college. It makes it a lot easier for kids from poor families to make something of themselves. I don’t see it as a bad thing if more kids are skipping college to do other things, as long as they’re able to be successful. College totally sucks as a vocational education program.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2021 10:00:17 GMT -5
All in all, the college experience is a ridiculously expensive way to gain entry into some low paying job that I could teach my 13-year-old how to do. And I’m saying this as someone who did the whole college experience, and doesn’t regret it. In my little town, even the schools and sketchy or parts of town do a decent job of educating the kids. As a result, it’s pretty common to see people with just high school working their way up the food chain, without ever going to college. It makes it a lot easier for kids from poor families to make something of themselves. I don’t see it as a bad thing if more kids are skipping college to do other things, as long as they’re able to be successful. Unfortunately many jobs now require a college degree when all that's really needed is a good work ethic and a willingness to learn (and a college degree doesn't necessarily imply either). Two examples: a friend said her daughter worked briefly at a car rental counter at an airport. College degree required. And, while DS' Math degree got him into a PT job in customer service for an insurance company, what got him on the rung up the ladder as a Claims Adjuster were his negotiation skills and his ability to handle conflict. I have a Math degree, too and have neither of those skills. I've worked with claims adjusters and some of the high-powered ones even have law degrees, but there's no reason the job requires a college degree at entry-level.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Feb 2, 2021 10:25:42 GMT -5
All in all, the college experience is a ridiculously expensive way to gain entry into some low paying job that I could teach my 13-year-old how to do. And I’m saying this as someone who did the whole college experience, and doesn’t regret it. In my little town, even the schools and sketchy or parts of town do a decent job of educating the kids. As a result, it’s pretty common to see people with just high school working their way up the food chain, without ever going to college. It makes it a lot easier for kids from poor families to make something of themselves. I don’t see it as a bad thing if more kids are skipping college to do other things, as long as they’re able to be successful. Unfortunately many jobs now require a college degree when all that's really needed is a good work ethic and a willingness to learn (and a college degree doesn't necessarily imply either). Two examples: a friend said her daughter worked briefly at a car rental counter at an airport. College degree required. And, while DS' Math degree got him into a PT job in customer service for an insurance company, what got him on the rung up the ladder as a Claims Adjuster were his negotiation skills and his ability to handle conflict. I have a Math degree, too and have neither of those skills. I've worked with claims adjusters and some of the high-powered ones even have law degrees, but there's no reason the job requires a college degree at entry-level. That is starting to change back though. A lot of the big companies are announcing no degree requirement on their applications anymore. Google, Apple, IBM...Elon Musk said he doesn't even care if you have a high school diploma to work at Tesla if you can do the coding. Our company changed all the job descriptions to remove degrees required a few years back.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2021 10:31:21 GMT -5
Schooling is historically a sorting machine. Examples of how it functions: Elementary School: You are marched around and if you couldn't stay in line, off to the fields with you to do the most manual of labor. High School: Homework (off the clock productivity) was a key to success. College: Meeting those core requirements so that you end up with a degree shows a real willingness to go along.
Granted something has to happen during those long hours of schooling so they teach about stuff, some of which is even beneficial to you and future employers. But that is a small part of what "education" is about.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2021 11:10:02 GMT -5
That is starting to change back though. A lot of the big companies are announcing no degree requirement on their applications anymore. Google, Apple, IBM...Elon Musk said he doesn't even care if you have a high school diploma to work at Tesla if you can do the coding. Our company changed all the job descriptions to remove degrees required a few years back. I'm really glad to see that! It's especially silly after you've been out of school for 5 or 10 years. Depending on your field, a good deal of what you learned in college can be obsolete.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 2, 2021 11:18:11 GMT -5
Schooling is historically a sorting machine. Examples of how it functions: Elementary School: You are marched around and if you couldn't stay in line, off to the fields with you to do the most manual of labor. High School: Homework (off the clock productivity) was a key to success. College: Meeting those core requirements so that you end up with a degree shows a real willingness to go along. Granted something has to happen during those long hours of schooling so they teach about stuff, some of which is even beneficial to you and future employers. But that is a small part of what "education" is about. When I met my husband he had dropped out of college. His reasoning was scattered, including that he didn't know what he was getting out of it, or why it was important to employers. I told him that at the very basic level, graduating college shows that you can set a goal, follow all the steps and complete the goal. It shows you are willing and able to follow instructions, jump through hoops, understand the requirements and learn about more than one thing to accomplish the task. Of course that is important to employers. Once he looked at it that way, he finished school in record time. Obviously not a record, as he had been farting around for years. But from that point on, he was singularly focused.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Feb 2, 2021 11:18:18 GMT -5
That is starting to change back though. A lot of the big companies are announcing no degree requirement on their applications anymore. Google, Apple, IBM...Elon Musk said he doesn't even care if you have a high school diploma to work at Tesla if you can do the coding. Our company changed all the job descriptions to remove degrees required a few years back. I'm really glad to see that! It's especially silly after you've been out of school for 5 or 10 years. Depending on your field, a good deal of what you learned in college can be obsolete. Yeah. I have a Biology degree and work in Quality Engineering at an electronics company. Pretty sure my degree isn't contributing much.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2021 11:55:51 GMT -5
Schooling is historically a sorting machine. Examples of how it functions: Elementary School: You are marched around and if you couldn't stay in line, off to the fields with you to do the most manual of labor. High School: Homework (off the clock productivity) was a key to success. College: Meeting those core requirements so that you end up with a degree shows a real willingness to go along. Granted something has to happen during those long hours of schooling so they teach about stuff, some of which is even beneficial to you and future employers. But that is a small part of what "education" is about. When I met my husband he had dropped out of college. His reasoning was scattered, including that he didn't know what he was getting out of it, or why it was important to employers. I told him that at the very basic level, graduating college shows that you can set a goal, follow all the steps and complete the goal. It shows you are willing and able to follow instructions, jump through hoops, understand the requirements and learn about more than one thing to accomplish the task. Of course that is important to employers. Once he looked at it that way, he finished school in record time. Obviously not a record, as he had been farting around for years. But from that point on, he was singularly focused. I ran into a guy i knew from college. He told me he was short a class or two from getting a degree. He was working for Boeing in a job based on what he had done in the service prior to college. He said they didn't give "partial credit" for just having taken classes.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Feb 2, 2021 12:21:56 GMT -5
I used to tell recent graduates 'your degree just tells me you can be taught. We'll teach you what you need to know.' My team was agile and willing to take on any challenge. They were great.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 2, 2021 18:57:17 GMT -5
I think I would have liked a lot of the on-line learning in HS- learn at my own pace, get the required assignments done, then pursue more advanced learning in areas that interested me. Having discussion groups with students in other countries would have been fascinating. In college, though, I'm not so sure. Being cooped up in a dorm room, mostly on-line, being tested constantly for COVID, etc. would be isolating. And while I never attended a frat party or participated in other student organizations and never attended football or basketball games, I do have very fond memories of the Conservatory, where students could attend any performance free if space was available. I was exposed to so many different types of music and it enriched my education. As a Math major, I had little formal exposure to music. Those performances probably aren't happening right now. But if you were going to college online, there’s really no need for you to be living in a dorm, away from all of your family and your high school friends. For the life of me, I will never understand why anybody would ship their kid off to live in the dorms at some generic party-u during these times. Only a fool would think that Covid wouldn’t spread like wild fire in a dorm setting, forcing the colleges to go online. If you’re going to be taking classes online, it’s a better to be taking it from an institution whose professors actually have experience teaching online. College professors do not handle change well. And many of them are unbelievably lazy when it comes to teaching.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Feb 3, 2021 10:50:31 GMT -5
Today is my son's very first in-person class since he started college this Fall! He sounds super excited!! I asked him if he even knew how to get there since they basically have been holed up in their dorms, but he's on top of it. It's 8 blocks away and he only has 15 minutes between classes so he's going to take his 3 online classes before that from the student union so he's closer.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Feb 3, 2021 11:34:44 GMT -5
Is this the thread where I get to complain that I'm tired of hearing babies crying and dogs barking in the background since all this WFH stuff started. Don't really want to start a new thread just wanted a brief moment to vent since I am currently hearing a baby cry while I am trying to talk to one of our vendors. Been on hold forever while she deals with the baby...yes, this is absolutely how professional organizations should run.
Okay, vent is over...
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billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,449
Member is Online
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 3, 2021 11:55:04 GMT -5
Never worshipped at the alter of "Professionalism". Always felt it demanded that we set aside too much of our humanity.
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stillmovingforward
Senior Member
Hanging on by a thread
Joined: Jan 1, 2014 21:52:58 GMT -5
Posts: 3,066
Today's Mood: Don't Mess with Me!
Location: Not Sure Yet
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Post by stillmovingforward on Feb 3, 2021 12:11:31 GMT -5
'Call me back or set up a meeting at a better time. Thanks and good luck.' These are extra ordinary times. I wouldn't let a babysitter into my house right now.
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