TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,157
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Jan 27, 2021 15:30:50 GMT -5
All CEOs are not "he's" says the feminist on the forum
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,388
|
Post by thyme4change on Jan 27, 2021 16:52:04 GMT -5
This is why we need to enroll employers - especially those that need certain kinds of labor. If we can convince companies we will provide them with a steady, trained workforce, they can pick up some of the cost. And, using the trickle economics theory - except more functional, once those employees have a decent wage, their money will be pumped into the economic machine, creating funding through taxes that can be used as additional support for the programs. I still think we should charge back employers like Amazon and Walmart for any employee they have that is on public programs. If they are working some minimum number of hours and still need medicaid, food stamps, section 8 and other support programs, maybe those companies aren't as profitable as they appear. We are subsidizing them so Bezos can buy another private plane, and then wondering why our system doesn't work. Uh-doi. I completely agree that the taxpayers are subsidizing large corporations. I do wonder, however, what proportion of their employees are receiving support because of children. I mean, does an adult full-time employee of Walmart make so little that he or she qualifies for food stamps and Medicaid? That's different than a single mother of three (with a deadbeat ex who doesn't pay child support) working full-time at Walmart and needing government assistance. Is it the responsibility of corporations to pay enough to an individual employee that they don't require welfare or should they pay enough that a single employee can support a family on that wage? That's not even taking into account companies that schedule workers just under the full-time hourly rate to avoid paying benefits. There could be 2 theories here 1) If two people are doing the same job, should they be paid differently due to life choices? If they are married, should it be taken into account if they have one income, or are the sole provider, or if this is a fun second job? Do people with 5 kids get paid more than 2? What if someone has a child with special needs? Should we increase their salary? If their kid turns 18, do you decrease the employees hourly rate? Or, do we define and pay a living wage and provide benefits to all workers? And let the government continue to provide a safety net for people in extenuating circumstances. 2) if companies want to continue to (and they do this) assist their employees to apply for government benefits, and structure the entire workforce around income and hour limits - the employers can pay the government back for each of those individuals. This may encourage a company to pay an employee directly. Or will they (illegally) not hire or fire people with kids. I think this is a great argument for a socialized healthcare system (details to be debated). Get employers out of heath care, and that takes away a lot of these problems. If every kid is covered, regardless of parental income, parents (and corporations) don't have to limit their earnings to stay on government care, and the company doesn't have to limit hours either. Food stamps and housing subsidies are trickier - as there are no proposals or appetite to socialize housing and food (nor do I think there should be.) But, if there is some minimum income level a full time employee should make, and some structure around the "full time" status is applied - maybe these programs can be reduced over time. It is sad to me that we call people who receive welfare "lazy" but all the clever people have found every loophole to keep work unprofitable. Including college degrees, which often aren't profitable either due to initial cost. Meanwhile, every time a proposal goes out to get employers to pay employees, the plan is villianized as the reason jobs will be reduced. I call bullshit, because humans have been replaced by robotics regardless.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,388
|
Post by thyme4change on Jan 28, 2021 20:17:29 GMT -5
My son and I had a spontaneous discussion about his school, not based on this thread at all. However, the discussion was about the CTE programs offered at his school. And I learned some stuff.
First off, we don't call the vocational schools anymore. They are Career and Technical Education schools. So, let's politically correct ourselves into that terminology. I suspect vo-tech has a negative stigma. So rebranding to CTE is smart marketing.
So here, there is a group of public schools. They offer CTE programs that are between 1 semester and 2 years. They partner with public high schools, but I am unclear if students leave their home school and go to another campus, or if there are on-campus programs. All campuses are accessible by city bus.
I am unclear on funding. There are programs listed, with costs. The programs range from $1,500 to $6,000 and then there are 2 aviation mechanics programs that are like $11k and $15k or something. But, I think they are free if you are "in district" and in high school. They also have scholarships - so I can't tell how much students have to pay. Maybe if you transfer solely to the tech program you are covered, but if you do a dual track at a "regular school" maybe you pay? I haven't spent the time to figure that out.
They also accept "adults" who are done with high school. They have to pay - but again, scholarships.
The programs are the type you would expect - construction type trades, mechanical, medical, first responder and law enforcement, beauty, computers and culinary.
I knew there was a career training track at my son's school and I knew it was respected, but since my kid is on the collegiate track I don't know much about the programs. (I don’t even pay enough attention to my kids' schools.) I'm happy to see a successful execution. I wonder how common this is. I live in a land of charter schools - so maybe that structure creates the right structure for this type of thing.
|
|
jerseygirl
Senior Member
Joined: May 13, 2018 7:43:08 GMT -5
Posts: 4,766
|
Post by jerseygirl on Jan 28, 2021 22:00:30 GMT -5
Schools like this are standard in NJ. Usually county based and students, depending on course, go full time or half time at local town high school and half at the CTE schools The schools are well respected with both college bound and final HS programs in the same schools, for example medical emphasis - kids going on to college premed or nursing and kids training for LPNs
All are public schools paid by county and also local high schools whose kids from district attend these county schools pay costs of the county school from the local school budget
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,039
|
Post by teen persuasion on Jan 29, 2021 9:32:28 GMT -5
Around here it's called BOCES - board of cooperative education services, or something like that. BOCES are semi-regional, sometimes multi-county as in my area, sometimes a portion of a larger county, like Erie-1 BOCES where I grew up (presumably there's an Erie-2, but I never heard of it). So the students take their core classes in their home school, and then are bussed to BOCES for the other half of the day. The big city has some specialized high schools, like City Honors or Tech or Performing Arts.
In our district, HS Jrs go to BOCES in the morning, and Srs in the afternoon. This has traditionally conflicted with music education (our district is huge on music). To get music honors, you have to be in the same ensemble all 4 years + music theory + level 6 solo at A or higher. The morning one year/afternoon next year made it impossible logistically to stay in an ensemble all 4 years when orchestra/band/chorus each had a fixed period in the schedule. So kids had to decide between music and BOCES. The district is finally trying to find a work around so students can do both. And Covid hit.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,450
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 29, 2021 10:00:37 GMT -5
Around here it's called BOCES - board of cooperative education services, or something like that. BOCES are semi-regional, sometimes multi-county as in my area, sometimes a portion of a larger county, like Erie-1 BOCES where I grew up (presumably there's an Erie-2, but I never heard of it). So the students take their core classes in their home school, and then are bussed to BOCES for the other half of the day. The big city has some specialized high schools, like City Honors or Tech or Performing Arts. In our district, HS Jrs go to BOCES in the morning, and Srs in the afternoon. This has traditionally conflicted with music education (our district is huge on music). To get music honors, you have to be in the same ensemble all 4 years + music theory + level 6 solo at A or higher. The morning one year/afternoon next year made it impossible logistically to stay in an ensemble all 4 years when orchestra/band/chorus each had a fixed period in the schedule. So kids had to decide between music and BOCES. The district is finally trying to find a work around so students can do both. And Covid hit. I know of a high school in the Seattle area that focuses on aviation. Students have to find a way to meet their physical education requirement outside of the school curriculum.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,388
|
Post by thyme4change on Jan 29, 2021 10:05:19 GMT -5
So, it seems this is common. What are we advocating for? More of them, wider geography? More funding? More participation? Wider variety of programs?
I'm not sure what part of the system we are critiquing
|
|
minnesotapaintlady
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 9, 2020 21:48:27 GMT -5
Posts: 7,490
Member is Online
|
Post by minnesotapaintlady on Jan 29, 2021 10:34:12 GMT -5
Our public high school has different tracks you can follow and there are different "themes" too, which are basically like different colleges in a university. So, you might be on the vocational track in the healthcare theme or the college track in the business theme. Each theme breaks down into specialties so there are things like pharmacy and athletic training under healthcare and finance and marketing under the business theme. They don't have to choose all the way down to the specialty or even the theme, they could just go broad and follow one of the tracks. (vocational, 2 year college, 4 year college, selective 4 year college). I went to that school back in the day and it wasn't like that then, but I don't really know how well it's working since my kids don't go there.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,450
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 29, 2021 10:41:14 GMT -5
So, it seems this is common. What are we advocating for? More of them, wider geography? More funding? More participation? Wider variety of programs? I'm not sure what part of the system we are critiquing I think a problem with many discussions on the educational system is that there are people who rely on their 40 years ago when they were a student or 20 years ago when they were a parent personal experiences of one school/district. I was a teacher for a while and even that was over 15 years ago in one very small district. I did grad work in education (not just standard continuing education which I did also) but that was even much longer ago. While I think I have a better understanding than some, I know I have substantial gaps and need to be careful in discussing things like this.
|
|
buystoys
Junior Associate
Joined: Mar 30, 2012 4:58:12 GMT -5
Posts: 5,650
|
Post by buystoys on Jan 29, 2021 10:42:53 GMT -5
They need more participation and more PR. I'm certain there's something in my area, but I have no idea where it would be or if the local HS sends students to it. It does kind of raise the question, though, of how do you encourage someone is a poor student to begin with that this might be the right program for them?
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,450
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 29, 2021 10:51:05 GMT -5
They need more participation and more PR. I'm certain there's something in my area, but I have no idea where it would be or if the local HS sends students to it. It does kind of raise the question, though, of how do you encourage someone is a poor student to begin with that this might be the right program for them? BOSTON — Thousands of students applied for seats in vocational schools last year only to be turned away because there wasn't room. link
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,388
|
Post by thyme4change on Jan 29, 2021 12:05:21 GMT -5
They need more participation and more PR. I'm certain there's something in my area, but I have no idea where it would be or if the local HS sends students to it. It does kind of raise the question, though, of how do you encourage someone is a poor student to begin with that this might be the right program for them? School counselors are the best advertisers. We had a mandatory meeting (parent, student, counselor) early freshman year. We were asked our goals and plans. We were dressed for our professional jobs and all three of us said "college" in unison. So, we discussed what classes he needed to take and what type of college, and AP classes, dual enrollment and scholarships. We came out with a 4 year plan of all the classes he would take each year. If we had hedged or said no college, the counselor would have walked us through the programs available and made a 4 year plan with all the classes to get through and come out of school with a skill or a certification or whatever. I don't think, necessarily, the general population needs to know - unless we want raise additional funds (public or private) or some other political narrative reason. Not that it is a secret, but marketing is expensive, and unless telling a 30 year old, child-free professional brings benefit to the program, it would be a waste of resources. I wonder what the participation rate is among people who have no plans for college.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,450
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 29, 2021 13:04:00 GMT -5
They need more participation and more PR. I'm certain there's something in my area, but I have no idea where it would be or if the local HS sends students to it. It does kind of raise the question, though, of how do you encourage someone is a poor student to begin with that this might be the right program for them? School counselors are the best advertisers. We had a mandatory meeting (parent, student, counselor) early freshman year. We were asked our goals and plans. We were dressed for our professional jobs and all three of us said "college" in unison. So, we discussed what classes he needed to take and what type of college, and AP classes, dual enrollment and scholarships. We came out with a 4 year plan of all the classes he would take each year. If we had hedged or said no college, the counselor would have walked us through the programs available and made a 4 year plan with all the classes to get through and come out of school with a skill or a certification or whatever. I don't think, necessarily, the general population needs to know - unless we want raise additional funds (public or private) or some other political narrative reason. Not that it is a secret, but marketing is expensive, and unless telling a 30 year old, child-free professional brings benefit to the program, it would be a waste of resources. I wonder what the participation rate is among people who have no plans for college. School counselors for intake and I have no doubt that the employers in need are well aware of output.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 2, 2021 22:00:51 GMT -5
They need more participation and more PR. I'm certain there's something in my area, but I have no idea where it would be or if the local HS sends students to it. It does kind of raise the question, though, of how do you encourage someone is a poor student to begin with that this might be the right program for them? It shouldn’t just be poor students though. Plenty of middle of the road students could be happier in the trades. We’ve already got way too many people getting degrees that don’t pay off. And a lot of trades can’t be done by someone who isn’t that bright.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 2, 2021 22:28:40 GMT -5
Conservatives have had ideas in the past, but they generally get slandered and lambasted for it. Can you tell me a few of the good ones? I am really trying to approach things from a moderate or balanced perspective, but I am not getting much good policy information (current or historical) from the GOP. Usually I hear their ideas during campaign season, but that wasn't the tone this year - no presidential primary debates, no coherent oft-repeated stump speech by Trump, and not much from my GOP Senate candidate that I could reconcile. (She would say four things, which were contradictory, and I had noone to translate. They all say contradictory stuff. But usually there is someone who breaks it down for me.) So, I am really interested to hear something other than the Dem's platform. School choice. School choice. School choice. My area is full of charter schools. My son is attending a science and technology charter school. He’ll graduate with certification in web development and a couple years of college credit under his belt. And since the place is basically a nerds paradise, he’s so much happier and better focused than he was at a regular school. By the way, his school has a disproportionately large number of low income kids, immigrants, and people of color. My other two children are both attending very excellent regular public schools. I don’t think they would be as good if the teachers and principals didn’t know that they had to compete against the charter schools.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 21,299
|
Post by giramomma on Feb 3, 2021 8:14:11 GMT -5
They need more participation and more PR. I'm certain there's something in my area, but I have no idea where it would be or if the local HS sends students to it. It does kind of raise the question, though, of how do you encourage someone is a poor student to begin with that this might be the right program for them? I think waiting until high school is far too late. The encouraging messages should start in elementary school. Right now, at the girl's school, the culture is that you must be perfect in Middle school so that you can succeed in college. Middle school is 6th grade. I'm sure by the time Miss M finishes k-8 education, that message will be pushed down to 3rd grade or earlier. It's about not wasting teachable moments. When do you hear kids say "I want to be an auto technician, plumber or electrician!" on career day? And, actually, maybe I'm onto something. Maybe we need kids books about Paul the Plumber who does really awesome things. In 17 years of checking out kids' books at the library, I have never checked out a kids' story book about the trades. I think the message also HAS to start at home, or some sort of after school program. It can't be the school's responsibility to encourage kids like that. Each guidance counselor at DS's high school gets 500 kids. Guidance appointments are 10 minutes long. How effective do you think that is at influencing a child? Sure, hire more guidance counselors. Then what do you cut?
There's being a poor student, and there's being a poor student that makes poor decisions. DS will be alright. Because he's "just" a poor student. To quote Breakfast club, except for his grade performance, he's every parent's wet dream. DS isn't drinking. He's not doing drugs. He's not having sex. He said he knows he's got back grades, but is smart enough to realize he shouldn't piss off the teachers and be a trouble maker. You also can't assume that a poor student won't bloom in a job. My son has stuck with his job for a year now. It's seriously been one of the best things for him, and I am really freaking proud of him. Besides learning about basic things like how to be a good employee, it's also teaching him what a good employer looks like, and doesn't look like. After working 6 months. he figured out that he could stay there working full time after graduation and be OK. No. He wouldn't be able to afford trips to Europe every summer. But, he wouldn't be so poor that he'd have to eat oatmeal for every single meal every day to keep his food costs down to $50 a month. The FIRST thing the manager that hired him said to DS was "Know, what, I started working here just like you are now." His manager was 27. Which is the PERFECT age for mentoring a kid. You are still young enough that a teen finds you cool and someone they should listen to. But, old enough to have learned a thing or two about life. (Even in my own reflecting, teaching in my mid-late 20s gave me some advantages with mentoring/influencing kiddos than it does now in my 40s..because I'm old now, a parent, and no fun.)
It's not also just messaging to the poor kids. it's messaging to the rich kids. It's not like the poor kids only hear poor kid messages, and don't hear the messages to the upper middle class kids. The way we raise our kids definitely aligns with poor people messaging. Which, I'm also very careful to explain that yes, we are a middle income family. But we choose some upper middle class behaviors, and we also choose some poor people behaviors. Kids in my parts don't work part time jobs anymore while in high school. It's beneath you if you are on the college track. It's been like that for a decade now.
Trades is akin to folks going into teaching. Right...what's the joke "Those that can't, teach." Those that are too dumb for college go into a trade. We don't talk like that in our household. We can't make up for all the haves that do.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 21,299
|
Post by giramomma on Feb 3, 2021 8:26:39 GMT -5
Here's another thought that I think is part of this discussion: Wouldn't it be nice if we real assessments in school that could indicate what a child was capable of, what their strengths and weaknesses are? Multiple choice, fill in the blank, true false tests don't really demonstrate what the kid has learned. They also don't indicate if the kid has got good critical thinking skills. I've never gotten any of my jobs because of my educational background or my gpa. I got them because I knew how to be a good worker, and I have some decent enough reasoning and critical thinking skills. Really. People are impressed because I ask good questions in order to have a better understanding.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,450
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Feb 3, 2021 9:34:46 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 19:57:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2021 9:46:14 GMT -5
Maybe we need kids books about Paul the Plumber who does really awesome things. In 17 years of checking out kids' books at the library, I have never checked out a kids' story book about the trades. There's being a poor student, and there's being a poor student that makes poor decisions. DS will be alright. Because he's "just" a poor student. To quote Breakfast club, except for his grade performance, he's every parent's wet dream. DS isn't drinking. He's not doing drugs. He's not having sex. He said he knows he's got back grades, but is smart enough to realize he shouldn't piss off the teachers and be a trouble maker. You also can't assume that a poor student won't bloom in a job. My son has stuck with his job for a year now. It's seriously been one of the best things for him, and I am really freaking proud of him. Besides learning about basic things like how to be a good employee, it's also teaching him what a good employer looks like, and doesn't look like. I agree with your entire post. High schools have gotten so fixated on the % of kids they get into college- doesn't matter how many drop out the first year with no degree and hefty student loans. Some kids just aren't college material and that includes many smart ones. When I look for an auto mechanic or a plumber I want a problem-solver. That takes brains. It warms my heart to read about your DS. Mine was a poor student, too- I sent him to NY Military Academy in HS because he needed the structure but, once that structure was removed, he struggled in college. He nearly flunked out but we got him a good counselor who helped him get organized and put him on Adderall while he was working in it. He blossomed after graduation when he got hired PT by an insurance company where his friends worked and, 12 years later, is now making something around $60K as a claims adjuster. Back in the Dark Ages, there were. I graduated from HS in 1971. We took a series of standardized tests, some measuring skills such as Abstract Reasoning and Spatial Relationships (Differential Aptitude Battery), and some measuring interests (Kuder Preference Tests). All were pencil and paper at the time. The results were then blended together to provide scores for various occupations, which at the time were divided into "Male" and "Female" occupations. My scores were higher in the "Male" occupations. Highest was Computer Programmer, lowest was Catholic Teaching Sister. My skills in Mechanical reasoning were so high that Dad, an engineer, said he probably wouldn't score that high. Interesting stuff. I ended up doing a LOT of computer work as an actuary. Those tests would do a good job helping kids see what their strengths are and what fields might be good for them. What we need to work on is the "you MUST go to college" mentality.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,388
|
Post by thyme4change on Feb 3, 2021 11:29:45 GMT -5
Can you tell me a few of the good ones? I am really trying to approach things from a moderate or balanced perspective, but I am not getting much good policy information (current or historical) from the GOP. Usually I hear their ideas during campaign season, but that wasn't the tone this year - no presidential primary debates, no coherent oft-repeated stump speech by Trump, and not much from my GOP Senate candidate that I could reconcile. (She would say four things, which were contradictory, and I had noone to translate. They all say contradictory stuff. But usually there is someone who breaks it down for me.) So, I am really interested to hear something other than the Dem's platform. School choice. School choice. School choice. My area is full of charter schools. My son is attending a science and technology charter school. He’ll graduate with certification in web development and a couple years of college credit under his belt. And since the place is basically a nerds paradise, he’s so much happier and better focused than he was at a regular school. By the way, his school has a disproportionately large number of low income kids, immigrants, and people of color. My other two children are both attending very excellent regular public schools. I don’t think they would be as good if the teachers and principals didn’t know that they had to compete against the charter schools. I'm cool with open enrollment and charters (even though I have some struggles with how some charter schools practice, and it can be used to limit certain types of students.) I have a problem with the state giving money to private and religious schools that don't have to follow any rules or standards. If you get funding, you get oversight.
|
|
gs11rmb
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 12:43:39 GMT -5
Posts: 3,303
|
Post by gs11rmb on Feb 3, 2021 12:56:06 GMT -5
I'm torn on charter schools. On the one hand, they can spark innovation and encourage school districts not to get complacent. On the other, they often pull the most affluent students from district schools and they're not always better at actually educating students.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,450
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Feb 3, 2021 13:07:38 GMT -5
I support school districts offering a variety of different systems to deliver curriculum, offer varied curricula, and provide pathways to help young people progress successfully to adulthood.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,388
|
Post by thyme4change on Feb 3, 2021 13:24:19 GMT -5
I'm torn on charter schools. On the one hand, they can spark innovation and encourage school districts not to get complacent. On the other, they often pull the most affluent students from district schools and they're not always better at actually educating students. Not necessarily the most affluent. Good public schools still have plenty of students, especially if you pair open enrollment with charters. That said, charter schools tend to discourage students that are more difficult to educate - learning disabilities, behavior problems, etc. They also cluster in areas where they draw kids on the high side of the wealth scale. If you live in a poorer area and have transportation problem "school choice" is a misnomer. I think charter schools tend to benefit the upper half more, but it does give avenues for schools to get more creative when serving their population. A school here chopped off a portion of their campus and started a specialized charter school so they could have 2 cultures and 2 sets of requirements. It seems to be working well. If your student isn't contributing to the charter school's statistics and ratings, make sure you have your paperwork airtight, and keep proof that it all got turned in, and if you have a verbal conversation, back it up with an email rehashing everything that was said. Ask for a response and confirmation. Make sure you know every rule and requirement. You may also need to know the laws, and force the school to follow them. Charter schools kick people out for misplacing a period on an application. They "lose" paperwork and claim you never submitted it. They suddenly have requirements that aren't in any of their documentation. And they think "this other way" works better for learning disabilities, even if the laws state specific processes and programs. If they can get rid of their problem students, they will.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,717
|
Post by raeoflyte on Feb 3, 2021 14:15:22 GMT -5
School choice/open enrollment is historically good at getting white kids out of (less affluent) minority districts and not good at getting minorities into (affluent) white districts.
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,157
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 3, 2021 15:12:20 GMT -5
School choice/open enrollment is historically good at getting white kids out of (less affluent) minority districts and not good at getting minorities into (affluent) white districts. The Iowa legislature has passed a bill that will allow school choice, open enrollment, vouchers for private schools, etc. It has no provision for auditing the vouchers in it. The high school sports associations are going nuts because the way it reads if you get mad at your coach you can go to a different school tomorrow and be on the team. Public schools are going crazy because they will be get all the disabled, disadvantaged, etc. kids.
|
|
jerseygirl
Senior Member
Joined: May 13, 2018 7:43:08 GMT -5
Posts: 4,766
|
Post by jerseygirl on Feb 11, 2021 18:40:05 GMT -5
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 11, 2021 19:23:18 GMT -5
Here's another thought that I think is part of this discussion: Wouldn't it be nice if we real assessments in school that could indicate what a child was capable of, what their strengths and weaknesses are? Multiple choice, fill in the blank, true false tests don't really demonstrate what the kid has learned. They also don't indicate if the kid has got good critical thinking skills. I've never gotten any of my jobs because of my educational background or my gpa. I got them because I knew how to be a good worker, and I have some decent enough reasoning and critical thinking skills. Really. People are impressed because I ask good questions in order to have a better understanding.
My first job out of college was due to my GPA. The firm wouldn’t even look at anyone with under a 3.8. The fact that I worked full time and a part time job while maintaining that GPA, told them I was deducted and ambitious No job after that (ok, I’ve only had 2 more!) cared about my college days. They knew of my skill set by reputation. So I do think grades are important for the first job. After that, I actually tossed resumes of people that put their gpa on a resume a few years after graduating. Tells me college was their high
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 11, 2021 20:10:13 GMT -5
School choice/open enrollment is historically good at getting white kids out of (less affluent) minority districts and not good at getting minorities into (affluent) white districts. I’m curious why you say that? How are the white kids escaping the impoverished schools that won’t allow the minorities to escape? Are the schools discriminating? In my area, parents can choose to send their kids to another school in district if their home school is below criteria in standardized testing. This is open to any student in that home school. What they found was that white parents were more likely than not to transfer their child to the better performing school. That isn’t racism. So I’m curious what your seeing to have that view.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 11, 2021 20:17:35 GMT -5
I'm torn on charter schools. On the one hand, they can spark innovation and encourage school districts not to get complacent. On the other, they often pull the most affluent students from district schools and they're not always better at actually educating students. Not necessarily the most affluent. Good public schools still have plenty of students, especially if you pair open enrollment with charters. That said, charter schools tend to discourage students that are more difficult to educate - learning disabilities, behavior problems, etc. They also cluster in areas where they draw kids on the high side of the wealth scale. If you live in a poorer area and have transportation problem "school choice" is a misnomer. I think charter schools tend to benefit the upper half more, but it does give avenues for schools to get more creative when serving their population. A school here chopped off a portion of their campus and started a specialized charter school so they could have 2 cultures and 2 sets of requirements. It seems to be working well. If your student isn't contributing to the charter school's statistics and ratings, make sure you have your paperwork airtight, and keep proof that it all got turned in, and if you have a verbal conversation, back it up with an email rehashing everything that was said. Ask for a response and confirmation. Make sure you know every rule and requirement. You may also need to know the laws, and force the school to follow them. Charter schools kick people out for misplacing a period on an application. They "lose" paperwork and claim you never submitted it. They suddenly have requirements that aren't in any of their documentation. And they think "this other way" works better for learning disabilities, even if the laws state specific processes and programs. If they can get rid of their problem students, they will. My oldest went to a charter school for 2 years. The school was no way equipped to handle the needs of my youngest. I could have pushed the issue and fought them constantly, but why? Our public school had a very good special needs department and I wound up sending both kids there. I only sent the oldest because she was in with the “gifted” kids so she was sheltered from the problem students. The public school had a fantastic gifted and special Ed department. Regular Ed was questionable and I would have paid for private school if I had to rather than send my child to regular Ed there I guess I don’t see the harm in pulling out the brightest of the students and letting them excel without being pulled down by problem students. I’m the parent of a special needs child and even I get angry that parents force mainstreaming to the detriment of regular Ed kids. If a child is disruptive, whether it’s because they are special needs or just have behavioral issues, they shouldn’t ruin the education of the kids that are there to learn. I don’t care the race or religion of a student, if they are the smartest, pull them out and let them flourish.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,388
|
Post by thyme4change on Feb 11, 2021 21:26:14 GMT -5
Not necessarily the most affluent. Good public schools still have plenty of students, especially if you pair open enrollment with charters. That said, charter schools tend to discourage students that are more difficult to educate - learning disabilities, behavior problems, etc. They also cluster in areas where they draw kids on the high side of the wealth scale. If you live in a poorer area and have transportation problem "school choice" is a misnomer. I think charter schools tend to benefit the upper half more, but it does give avenues for schools to get more creative when serving their population. A school here chopped off a portion of their campus and started a specialized charter school so they could have 2 cultures and 2 sets of requirements. It seems to be working well. If your student isn't contributing to the charter school's statistics and ratings, make sure you have your paperwork airtight, and keep proof that it all got turned in, and if you have a verbal conversation, back it up with an email rehashing everything that was said. Ask for a response and confirmation. Make sure you know every rule and requirement. You may also need to know the laws, and force the school to follow them. Charter schools kick people out for misplacing a period on an application. They "lose" paperwork and claim you never submitted it. They suddenly have requirements that aren't in any of their documentation. And they think "this other way" works better for learning disabilities, even if the laws state specific processes and programs. If they can get rid of their problem students, they will. My oldest went to a charter school for 2 years. The school was no way equipped to handle the needs of my youngest. I could have pushed the issue and fought them constantly, but why? Our public school had a very good special needs department and I wound up sending both kids there. I only sent the oldest because she was in with the “gifted” kids so she was sheltered from the problem students. The public school had a fantastic gifted and special Ed department. Regular Ed was questionable and I would have paid for private school if I had to rather than send my child to regular Ed there I guess I don’t see the harm in pulling out the brightest of the students and letting them excel without being pulled down by problem students. I’m the parent of a special needs child and even I get angry that parents force mainstreaming to the detriment of regular Ed kids. If a child is disruptive, whether it’s because they are special needs or just have behavioral issues, they shouldn’t ruin the education of the kids that are there to learn. I don’t care the race or religion of a student, if they are the smartest, pull them out and let them flourish. That is what charter schools want - for all the difficult kids to go elsewhere. I am glad you had an option that worked for your kids.
|
|